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PHIZ KALIFA posted:america, standing atop a pile of 200,000 corpses: can you beLIEVE what those chinese are doing. So is this going to be the new "but what about the native Americans" tankie response except to cover for China unleashing a plague on the planet instead of to cover it committing genocide in Xinjiang
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Apr 4, 2020 04:42
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China rules!!!!!
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Apr 4, 2020 04:52
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:I don't know why everyone is so hard on China. Taiwan took aggressive measures to contain the virus and has done a good job, and Taiwan is part of China. gently caress off.
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Apr 4, 2020 04:56
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d0s posted:a guy who was doing a bunch of whataboutism in that thread a few days ago brought up american pig farms and tsukiji as places that are just as bad as chinese wet markets. like yeah there are gross things about both places (particularly pig farming) but cmon son Spoken as someone who clearly has never been within a thousand miles of Tsukiji or a Chinese wet market. Factory pig farming is at least a mildly better comparison.
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Apr 4, 2020 05:11
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d0s posted:the moai emoji was to represent the statue in shibuya as a meeting landmark when emoji were way more japan centric. the original ones looked more like the statue iirc. Oh, that's super interesting. Thanks!
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Apr 4, 2020 05:13
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Grand Fromage posted:Spoken as someone who clearly has never been within a thousand miles of Tsukiji or a Chinese wet market. factory pig farming is radically different in regards to the threat of creating an epidemic because while they are breeding grounds for disease, they are very isolated from people. That means its difficult for pathogens to jump from pig to man. Also the pigs are constantly pumped full of antibiotics and if that doesn't work welp, time to bury them alive. Small scale traditional farming is where the actual risk of animal to human transmission lies, because those animals are in constant close contact with their owners. Sometimes they even practically live under the same roof There are plenty of reasons to criticize factory farming, but I don't think disease risk is one of them.
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Apr 4, 2020 05:18
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Cockney rhyming slang for "no why"
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Apr 4, 2020 05:19
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Fojar38 posted:So is this going to be the new "but what about the native Americans" tankie response except to cover for China unleashing a plague on the planet instead of to cover it committing genocide in Xinjiang i don't know what tankie means but it doesn't really have much to do with the fact that america has no grounds to criticize a n y o n e (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 4, 2020 05:23
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like jokes about china hiding the number of bodies don't really compare to america just not bothering to even try to act like they've got an adequate response. medical care so inadequate people are dying in their homes because dying in a hospital would bankrupt their whole families. massive flood of unemployed about to get evicted, every gain since the last recession wiped out in a single week. we're a loving SHAMBLE of a country.
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Apr 4, 2020 05:25
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Even the worst hypocrisy doesn’t automatically mean the hypocrite’s argument is invalid.
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Apr 4, 2020 05:30
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Squalid posted:factory pig farming is radically different in regards to the threat of creating an epidemic because while they are breeding grounds for disease, they are very isolated from people. That means its difficult for pathogens to jump from pig to man. Also the pigs are constantly pumped full of antibiotics and if that doesn't work welp, time to bury them alive. The thing about pigs is that they very specifically breed weird flu. It's not a great situation either.
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Apr 4, 2020 06:06
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Yo tell me why the big fish market is gross
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Apr 4, 2020 06:11
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lilbeefer posted:Yo tell me why the big fish market is gross It fuckin stinks!!!!
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Apr 4, 2020 06:14
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The Cubelodyte posted:Even the worst hypocrisy doesn’t automatically mean the hypocrite’s argument is invalid. There’s really no good evidence that China has made serious efforts at a massive coverup though. Their deaths are certainly higher than just 2500 just as the death counts are higher than reported everywhere in the world unless there’s a country I’m unaware of that’s also adding nonspecific respiratory failure deaths conservatively to their count. What you do see is other less authoritarian countries like Taiwan, South Korea, and Singapore who took quick effective action have controlled it similarly and lends credence to China’s general success at suppression. You can think China is a lovely country run by a lovely evil government and still did well at stopping the spread of the diseases; not only are these things not mutually exclusive they if anything are complimentary, given that the best way to stop the spread of disease is by tracking people and suppressing freedom of movement. The recent focus on China’s death count is primarily a pathetic propaganda attempt by the US.
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Apr 4, 2020 06:22
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The unnamed country's propaganda machine can only salivate
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Apr 4, 2020 06:25
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They found the virus in pangolins. Are they eaten in China, used for TCM or both?
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Apr 4, 2020 06:26
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Imagine believing that china actually stopped the spread.
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Apr 4, 2020 06:30
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Sten Freak posted:They found the virus in pangolins. Are they eaten in China, used for TCM or both? at one time, somewhere in the continent of america, at least one person has eaten a pangolin, or one of its relatives. therefore, you must look inward before you criticize outwardly
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Apr 4, 2020 06:30
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lilbeefer posted:Yo tell me why the big fish market is gross idk its full of dead fish or something, I was just trying to be diplomatic it's a ludicrous comparison 
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Apr 4, 2020 06:38
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LimburgLimbo posted:There’s really no good evidence that China has made serious efforts at a massive coverup though. Except for the massive coverup from late November to late January that is a matter of public record now and is common knowledge even in China. Even the CCP obfuscates the responsibility for the original coverup rather than outright denying it.
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Apr 4, 2020 06:38
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I agree america had a terrible response and we've got an actual retard as our president however this is the china thread, where we discuss china
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Apr 4, 2020 06:41
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PHIZ KALIFA posted:i don't know what tankie means but it doesn't really have much to do with the fact that america has no grounds to criticize a n y o n e lol gently caress off
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Apr 4, 2020 07:11
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Sten Freak posted:They found the virus in pangolins. Are they eaten in China, used for TCM or both? They are literally being driven to extinction because of TCM
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Apr 4, 2020 07:16
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oohhboy posted:But seriously, getting gout. Oh word?
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Apr 4, 2020 07:21
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LimburgLimbo posted:There’s really no good evidence that China has made serious efforts at a massive coverup though. Their deaths are certainly higher than just 2500 just as the death counts are higher than reported everywhere in the world unless there’s a country I’m unaware of that’s also adding nonspecific respiratory failure deaths conservatively to their count. In a country that constantly spits out lies and propaganda, oppresses the hell out of speech, there has not been a serious cover up. Yeah right. There is a job at WHO if you are interested. It's not that quarantining, track and trace doesn't work it's China telling me new infections was zero like it hit a wall is laughable especially given they tried to cover it up. It's unlikely you will find a smoking gun directive for a cover up but you don't need ond as the entire system incentives cover ups and lies on every level. Order goes out to stamp out the ccpvirus. Underlings if they want to advance, keep their jobs, not get jumped by a rival or find the police at their door will use the easiest ways to get good numbers. The easiest way to do it is to fake the numbers by miscounting, misclassification, paying people off or straight up lie. Healing people means you have to report the truth which puts your head on the chopping block. I seriously doubt even Xi knows what the numbers are to a reasonable degree of certainty. The real thread that connects Korea, Taiwan and Singapore is not only did they get on top early, they told the truth which encourage people to limit the spread without needing to lockdown.
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Apr 4, 2020 07:24
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all numbers from china are carefully curated and are more like an allegory for the truth, if they're claiming 0 then it probably just means the areas it's spreading in are small and isolated enough that they expect we'll never find out
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Apr 4, 2020 07:54
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Vesi posted:all numbers from china are carefully curated and are more like an allegory for the truth, if they're claiming 0 then it probably just means the areas it's spreading in are small and isolated enough that they expect we'll never find out no it's more like "people aren't dying of coronavirus. they are dying of flu-like symptoms accompanied by pneumonia"
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Apr 4, 2020 08:31
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oohhboy posted:Underlings if they want to advance, keep their jobs, not get jumped by a rival or find the police at their door will use the easiest ways to get good numbers. The easiest way to do it is to fake the numbers by miscounting, misclassification, paying people off or straight up lie. Healing people means you have to report the truth which puts your head on the chopping block. This is the big thing we're seeing about the Chinese government. Although local government have absolute power in their area of control, paradoxically they are almost helpless when the central government decides to punish them. Since the local authorities have so much control and oversight in their localities, they're left with all of the blame if something goes wrong under their watch. This creates an incentive for lower levels of government to lie to the higher levels to avoid scrutiny. Even if someone in the middle thinks someone lower is making poo poo up, they don't want to be on the hook to explain all of this if they report it to their higher ups. https://www.nytimes.com./2020/03/29/world/asia/coronavirus-china.html quote:When the central government became involved, local officials outwardly welcomed the expert investigators sent by Beijing. Officials described the infections as nothing too serious. We're just over 3 months past what happened here. Unless there's been a dramatic change in governance, the political system of China in January is most likely the same one we see today. The central government has only so many people it can spread around to breath down the necks of local officials and watch over them. It's not exactly a stretch to think these local officials would go back to making poo poo up to get the higher ups off their backs once there is less pressure. This isn't proof positive that the Chinese government is lying about their numbers, but rather a warning that the Chinese government lies to itself. CIGNX fucked around with this message at 08:51 on Apr 4, 2020 |
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Apr 4, 2020 08:39
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CIGNX posted:We're just over 3 months past what happened here. Unless there's been a dramatic change in governance, the political system of China in January is most likely the same one we see today. The central government has only so many people it can spread around to breath down the necks of local officials and watch over them. It's not exactly a stretch to think these local officials would go back to making poo poo up to get the higher ups off their backs once there is less pressure. This isn't proof positive that the Chinese government is lying about their numbers, but rather a warning that the Chinese government lies to itself. In essence, 山高皇帝远
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Apr 4, 2020 09:26
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Tupperwarez posted:In essence, 山高皇帝远 天高 mother fucker
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Apr 4, 2020 09:40
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d0s posted:idk its full of dead fish or something, I was just trying to be diplomatic it's a ludicrous comparison how many viruses have ever crossed the human-fish barrier anyway
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Apr 4, 2020 10:45
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CIGNX posted:
5000 years of yes men with thugs.
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Apr 4, 2020 10:46
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Can I get some clarification on the term "tankie"? Google says it's a hardline Stalinist.
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Apr 4, 2020 13:08
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bromplicated posted:Can I get some clarification on the term "tankie"? Google says it's a hardline Stalinist. Tankies was a term originally coined to describe people who supported the Soviet Union sending in the Red Army (including a bunch of tanks) to put down popular dissent by Hungarian communists in order to solidify the USSR's control over Hungary. It's become a colloquialism to describe people (ostensibly) on the left who defend or ignore awful, authoritarian/imperialist bullshit so long as it is conducted by governments who pay lipservice to being leftist.
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Apr 4, 2020 13:23
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bromplicated posted:Can I get some clarification on the term "tankie"? Google says it's a hardline Stalinist. There’s a very entertaining/infuriating tankie thread in PYF
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Apr 4, 2020 13:27
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Vesi posted:all numbers from china are carefully curated and are more like an allegory for the truth, if they're claiming 0 then it probably just means the areas it's spreading in are small and isolated enough that they expect we'll never find out it might not even be the top numbers. im sure there are lots of "incentives" for local party officials to keep the numbers down, so those numbers get under reported so they look good to their boss. its doesn't need to be a high level conspiracy for Chinas public officials to be corrupt
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Apr 4, 2020 13:36
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see: hospitals in US disregarding positive test results if the patient already died in order to keep their reported numbers low my guess is 1.5-2x reported deaths in hubei just from covid-19 but i'm not basing that on anything; maybe 3x when counting unexplained deaths at home. i doubt it's as much as 5x though Mozi fucked around with this message at 13:45 on Apr 4, 2020 |
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Apr 4, 2020 13:42
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LimburgLimbo posted:You can think China is a lovely country run by a lovely evil government and still did well at stopping the spread of the diseases; not only are these things not mutually exclusive they if anything are complimentary, given that the best way to stop the spread of disease is by tracking people and suppressing freedom of movement. Yes the country that spawned a new disease that has now spread to every country on earth did a good job containing it.
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Apr 4, 2020 14:46
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New pangolin five piece bucket
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Apr 4, 2020 15:31
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the chief v2 posted:Yes the country that spawned a new disease that has now spread to every country on earth did a good job containing it. It's less that they spawned the new disease -though, if it came from a pangolin there's a bit of exotic animal trade blame there too- and more that they intentionally covered up the outbreak until after millions of people from the affected area had gone on vacation and spread it across the globe.
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Apr 4, 2020 16:03
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