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The Democrats have proven that they will never be a willing progressive party. When Bernie dies he will be replaced by a conservative psychopath like the rest of the establishment Dems, AOC will soon be redistricted out of office, Omar's gonna be labelled as an anti-semite if she ever becomes more important than she is now and the media will harp on it until she's done. There is no progressive future for the Democrats and no reason to support the party at all. If the Greens hit 5% then they have a better chance at forming progressive government than the Democrats will in our lifetime. That alone seems like a good enough motivation to me.
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Apr 4, 2020 17:43
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RBA Starblade posted:I'm starting to think that's the goal Imagine saying this poo poo with a straight face in defense of a party establishment that's literally a controlled opposition lmao forever.
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Apr 4, 2020 18:15
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RBA Starblade posted:I'm starting to think that's the goal I'm starting to think that's the conclusion you set out to reach and are ignoring any other possible goals, like not voting for a racist gropey walking corpse.
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Apr 4, 2020 18:26
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How are u posted:The Obama / Hillary '08 platforms are insanely conservative compared to even Joe loving Biden's here in 2020. It's really quite extraordinary. And it's not just platforms, it's what people are ready to accept and eager to demand. No they aren't. They're mostly the same, and in the places they differ Biden's is more conservative. Obama promised to repeal the 2005 Bankruptcy Act while Biden (who co-authored it) just wants to tweak it. Obama promised universal healthcare coverage while Biden's (terrible) health care plan would only increase coverage by a few percentage points. Obama ran on an independent Palestinian state. We've backslid in the last 12 years from Obama to his more conservative running mate chosen to balance the ticket.
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Apr 4, 2020 18:30
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I swear anyone who says Biden has a progressive platform either hasn't read it or is hoping you don't
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Apr 4, 2020 18:32
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Jewel Repetition posted:I swear anyone who says Biden has a progressive platform either hasn't read it or is hoping you don't But I thought How are u was the most honest poster on the forums?!
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Apr 4, 2020 18:36
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The only actual political belief Joe Biden has ever had is that you have to give the GOP everything they want, so the only platform he'd possibly even try to enact is Trump's.
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Apr 4, 2020 18:40
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https://twitter.com/ms_estarr/status/1246411378035957761?s=20
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Apr 4, 2020 18:46
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:this is the only possible reason to not want to vote for a rapist quote:I'm starting to think that's the conclusion you set out to reach and are ignoring any other possible goals, like not voting for a racist gropey walking corpse. quote:Imagine saying this poo poo with a straight face in defense of a party establishment that's literally a controlled opposition lmao forever. I'm saying nothing in Biden's defense, he is a monster, but you're preparing to entrench the other rapist's party indefinitely. Do you hope they'll eventually break and usher in full communism after achieving total control again? Do you suppose the fully conservative judicial system they'll give us will do it? I doubt it. There is no good answer here but there is a wrong answer, I think. quote:The only actual political belief Joe Biden has ever had is that you have to give the GOP everything they want, so the only platform he'd possibly even try to enact is Trump's. What do you think throwing the election will do?
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Apr 4, 2020 18:46
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RBA Starblade posted:I'm saying nothing in Biden's defense, he is a monster, but you're preparing to entrench the other rapist's party indefinitely. Do you hope they'll eventually break and usher in full communism after achieving total control again? Do you suppose the fully conservative judicial system they'll give us will do it? I doubt it. Voting 3rd party probably isn't the answer, but they only need one more Trump term and McConnell's continued existence to continue the judicial rush unabated. Mitch isn't going to stop putting the papers in front of Donny to get the judges across the line, it's all he cares about. Democrats and leftists will navigate the environment regardless of the judicial landscape, it's regular people who have to deal with chud judges, and we're already dealing with them.
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Apr 4, 2020 18:50
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Nonsense posted:Voting 3rd party probably isn't the answer, but they only need one more Trump term and McConnell's continued existence to continue the judicial rush unabated. This is wholly correct; my concern is about what those chudges do with four more years of entrenchment, at least one more seat on the supreme court, and no real opposition to stop them. I admit I got too hot in the thread before but in our current (bad) system splitting in half or spite-voting the bigly boy isn't going to teach the Democrats a lesson more than it's going to empower the Republicans even more, longer, and suppress what we could use to stop it. Unfortunately for all of us, the two major nominees (unless we get lucky and someone gets some sense and pulls Joe) are rapists; we can then assume one way or another we are supporting one, either through action or inaction.
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Apr 4, 2020 18:57
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The only reason why the Dems are putting up even token resistance towards fascism is because Trump is president. A Biden presidency would immediately normalize pretty much everything Trump has done. Also, once again, Biden literally went out of his way to get Clarence Thomas on the court. Also also, it might be more productive for you to go yell at the Dem establishment for literally throwing the election instead of getting mad at randos on the internet for having basic moral standards.
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Apr 4, 2020 19:02
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RBA Starblade posted:This is wholly correct; my concern is about what those chudges do with four more years of entrenchment, at least one more seat on the supreme court, and no real opposition to stop them. I admit I got too hot in the thread before but in our current (bad) system splitting in half or spite-voting the bigly boy isn't going to teach the Democrats a lesson more than it's going to empower the Republicans even more, longer, and suppress what we could use to stop it. Unfortunately for all of us, the two major nominees (unless we get lucky and someone gets some sense and pulls Joe) are rapists; we can then assume one way or another we are supporting one, either through action or inaction. It's always 4 more years, it's always 4 more years, it's always 4 more years, it's always 4 more years, it's always 4 more years, it's always 4 more years, it's always 4 more years, it's always 4 more years, it's always 4 more years, it's always 4 more years, it's always 4 more years, it's always 4 more years, it's always 4 more years, it's always 4 more years, it's always 4 more years, it's always 4 more years, it's always 4 more years, it's always 4 more years, it's always 4 more years, it's always 4 more years, it's always 4 more years, it's always 4 more years, it's always 4 more years, it's always 4 more years, and of course... it's always 4 more years. "Listen, I'm trying to be reasonable and pragmatic, but you need to hold your nose and pull the lever for Team Blue or else there will be 4 more years." As a child you are read parables about extremely basic moral conundrums. The internet has been shaped by advertising to min-max clicks based off of manipulating human psychology, hence why there's always this One Weird Trick or You Won't Believe What Happens Next. However, we're supposed to take democratic party apparatchiks seriously when they cry trump/chudges and insist that this is the election that matters the most and we won't believe what's going to happen next? This doesn't even begin to touch on the ridiculous hand waving of political realities, such as the RBG defense brigade; I'm supposed to give a poo poo about someone who intentionally didn't retire when they had the chance? That sounds like a you problem. I honestly don't see what the issue is. The democratic party got what they wanted: a bunch of alienated and disinterested people. Stop being sore winners.
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Apr 4, 2020 19:19
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Phone posted:It's always 4 more years, it's always 4 more years, it's always 4 more years, it's always 4 more years, it's always 4 more years, it's always 4 more years, it's always 4 more years, it's always 4 more years, it's always 4 more years, it's always 4 more years, it's always 4 more years, it's always 4 more years, it's always 4 more years, it's always 4 more years, it's always 4 more years, it's always 4 more years, it's always 4 more years, it's always 4 more years, it's always 4 more years, it's always 4 more years, it's always 4 more years, it's always 4 more years, it's always 4 more years, it's always 4 more years, and of course... it's always 4 more years. What do you expect to happen if you get a sizable third party or give up and vote Trump? You won't gain the presidency, surely (well, you will if you give up and join them). What will the winners do? What will you? RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Apr 4, 2020 |
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Apr 4, 2020 21:08
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RBA Starblade posted:What do you expect to happen if you get a sizable third party or give up and vote Trump? You won't gain the presidency, surely (well, you will if you give up and join them). What will the winners do? What will you? The extremely simple point is that I have witnessed first hand what two "successful" Democratic administrations have brought to bear. I'm not particularly interested in seeing what a doomed from the start one looks like.
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Apr 4, 2020 22:24
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RBA Starblade posted:What do you expect to happen if you get a sizable third party or give up and vote Trump? You won't gain the presidency, surely (well, you will if you give up and join them). What will the winners do? What will you? The destruction of the Democratic party and its eventual replacement with something better is an incredibly worthy goal, whether it takes 4 or 8 or 12 years. Putting them back in office will accomplish nothing.
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Apr 4, 2020 22:26
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People’s belief is “what we have been doing hasn’t been working”, which is very true, but they decide that since what we’ve been doing hasn’t been working, they don’t have to explain how whatever different thing they’re going to do will work. Me I’ll just freely admit to having no idea what to do.
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Apr 4, 2020 23:10
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Mellow Seas posted:People’s belief is “what we have been doing hasn’t been working”, which is very true, but they decide that since what we’ve been doing hasn’t been working, they don’t have to explain how whatever different thing they’re going to do will work. It's a bridge we'll cross when we get there. If the expectation is that we have to trust that Joe Biden is actually playing 9th dimensional tic-tac-toe and that he's actually running on the most progressive platform the democratic party has ever had, it'd be nice for once for the favor to be returned. Priority #1 is the destruction of the democratic party by any means necessary since they're the most immediate barrier to progressive politics.
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Apr 4, 2020 23:37
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Phone posted:It's a bridge we'll cross when we get there. If the expectation is that we have to trust that Joe Biden is actually playing 9th dimensional tic-tac-toe and that he's actually running on the most progressive platform the democratic party has ever had, it'd be nice for once for the favor to be returned. Unfortunately, we're already here. You don't have to believe that Joe Biden is the Purest Progressive, he isn't, but if you think another 4, 8, 12 years of Republicans will open the way to your opportunity, I'm afraid have to disagree.
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Apr 4, 2020 23:40
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Things can get worse, which means when we explore our alternatives to “same old poo poo” we have to at least have a guess of how things are going to work out. There are much, much worse futures than than the one that begins with “Joe Biden becomes President and predictably sucks”. Still. Nothing ventured nothing gained. People are going to disagree on how to weigh this kind of stuff and what the short term, let alone long term consequences of different actions will be.
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Apr 4, 2020 23:45
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RBA Starblade posted:Unfortunately, we're already here. You don't have to believe that Joe Biden is the Purest Progressive, he isn't, but if you think another 4, 8, 12 years of Republicans will open the way to your opportunity, I'm afraid have to disagree. what if we believe he's a rapist republican that would gladly have us die of the coronavirus if it meant he won the primary? do you think voting for slime like that helps anything? cause I sure don't
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Apr 5, 2020 00:03
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Condiv posted:what if we believe he's a rapist republican that would gladly have us die of the coronavirus if it meant he won the primary? Do you think keeping the Republicans in power will? Do you think allowing them to entrench even further will? By all means then.
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Apr 5, 2020 00:06
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it's amazing that dems have slid so far rightward that things like rape and sacrificing your constituents to coronavirus for electoral gains just makes a candidate not "the Purest Progressive" as opposed to a loving republican ghoulRBA Starblade posted:Do you think keeping the Republicans in power will? if i vote for joe and he wins, i just kept the republicans in power. i'm not voting for rapists, and i'm not voting for people who literally want to sacrifice their constituents to a pandemic. since team biden does both of those things, i will not be voting for biden if he wins the primary happy to help you understand Condiv fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Apr 5, 2020 |
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Apr 5, 2020 00:07
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RBA Starblade posted:Unfortunately, we're already here. You don't have to believe that Joe Biden is the Purest Progressive, he isn't, but if you think another 4, 8, 12 years of Republicans will open the way to your opportunity, I'm afraid have to disagree. Considering that the Clinton administration, a successful democratic administration, led directly to George W Bush and that the Obama administration, another successful democratic administration, led directly to Donald Trump, I am going to reiterate that I'm not keen on finding out what a nonstarter of a democratic administration is going to lead to. If you want to disagree, that's fine; however, at some point you're going to have to reckon with the reality that Mega Hitler 2.0 and Super Mega Hitler Ultra Championship Fighting Edition followed the democratic administrations that everyone is chomping at the bit to go back to because then everything would be "normal".
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Apr 5, 2020 00:09
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Understanding that then, why do you think tossing the election to Super Street Hitler 3 Tournament Election would be any better? I don't see any way it is. Condiv posted:it's amazing that dems have slid so far rightward that things like rape and sacrificing your constituents to coronavirus for electoral gains just makes a candidate not "the Purest Progressive" as opposed to a loving republican ghoul Who is the other party who will win if not that? What do you think your actions will lead to?
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Apr 5, 2020 00:09
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"Things are bad enough already, you'll never change things if you don't hold your nose and vote blue no matter what" sure is a take.
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Apr 5, 2020 00:09
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Argas posted:"Things are bad enough already, you'll never change things if you don't hold your nose and vote blue no matter what" sure is a take. You'll never change things if you surrender to the right, no, I don't think you will. I think that's effectively what trying to run a third party right now will lead to.
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Apr 5, 2020 00:11
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RBA Starblade posted:Who is the other party who will win if not that? What do you think your actions will lead to? the dems will absolutely keep sliding right if i vote for dems who rape and who murder their constituents. my actions are the only possible way (via voting) to not encourage the dems' rightward slide
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Apr 5, 2020 00:12
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RBA Starblade posted:Do you think keeping the Republicans in power will? Do you think allowing them to entrench even further will? By all means then. You've got the causation backwards. It isn't my one vote that will keep the Republicans empowered. It will be the Democratic Establishment and Biden actively working to empower Republicans that will keep Republicans empowered. Biden campaigns for Republicans, says we need Republicans, and then drives away anyone from the party who doesn't feel the same. If he ends up throwing the election to Trump, it won't be because I skipped the president line or whatever, it will be the outcomes of the years of Biden and the Democratic Establishment choosing to empower Republicans over improving material conditions. The fact that refusing to vote for a rapist might endanger Biden losing doesn't undermine the idea that rapists are bad, but instead undermines that idea that Biden is good. RBA Starblade posted:You'll never change things if you surrender to the right, no, I don't think you will. I think that's effectively what trying to run a third party right now will lead to. Voting blue no matter who is surrendering that right, as shown by the fact that one can't even hold basic positions like "rapists shouldn't be leaders" or "slaveholders shouldn't be leaders" and do it.
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Apr 5, 2020 00:13
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RBA Starblade posted:Understanding that then, why do you think tossing the election to Super Street Hitler 3 Tournament Election would be any better? are you having issues tracking? where does super street hitler 3 tournament election (???????????????) come into it? if the election goes to trump it's still super mega hitler ultra championship fighting edition. my dumbass analogies aren't that hard to follow.
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Apr 5, 2020 00:14
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RBA Starblade posted:You'll never change things if you surrender to the right, no, I don't think you will. I think that's effectively what trying to run a third party right now will lead to. Don't surrender to the right! Also, vote for the rapist!
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Apr 5, 2020 00:15
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we are in the middle of dealing with a democratic party that is fighting against delaying primaries despite the fact that holding the primaries as scheduled will cause a lot of deaths in the middle of a pandemic that there are still people who want to reward that kind of sociopathic political party with their votes is quite frankly amazing. if you keep voting for the dems as they slide rightward into a loving death cult, they're just gonna keep sliding rightward. why the gently caress would they ever stop? not even the prospect of their constituents dying from the greatest plague of our lives stops them
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Apr 5, 2020 00:19
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quote:are you having issues tracking? where does super street hitler 3 tournament election (???????????????) come into it? I don't know what the name of another Street Fighter would be to follow on from Super Mega Hitler Ultra Championship Fighting Edition, sorry I hosed it up. I was referring to a sequel for his next four years.  Unoriginal Name posted:Don't surrender to the right! I'm saying that you're ultimately supporting a rapist either way, either through action or inaction, since one's already in power. No matter what we do, a rapist will be in or remain in power, through our actions. quote:Voting blue no matter who is surrendering that right, as shown by the fact that one can't even hold basic positions like "rapists shouldn't be leaders" or "slaveholders shouldn't be leaders" and do it. They shouldn't be, but they are. I do not think ceding the election to one will do a lot to change that. I do think we can do a little something about it if we do not. No, I don't think this is a good outcome, but I think it's a better outcome.
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Apr 5, 2020 00:22
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why the gently caress would you think anything good will come from voting blue no matter who when democratic leadership are literally pushing for policy that will kill democrats in short order? we're not talking the normal loving poo poo like fighting medicare for all, we're talking about them literally fighting against measures to protect against the coronavirus cause they think it's advantageous in the short term. they know how loving dangerous this pandemic is, they know it can potentially kill a lot of people, that's why they pushed their convention back and that's why biden is hiding and doing fundraisers via skype. despite knowing the gravity of this virus, they are fighting against measures being taken in the interest of public health and safety! why do you think it's either good or even loving appropriate to vote for people who exhibit such ghoulish behavior? what is wrong with you?!
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Apr 5, 2020 00:28
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Why do you think another four years of the fascist right would?
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Apr 5, 2020 00:29
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Saying that choosing not to vote for a rapist is supporting a rapist is not the way it loving ways. Not supporting biden doesn't mean you tacitly support trump.
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Apr 5, 2020 00:32
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RBA Starblade posted:Why do you think another four years of the fascist right is? answer the question RBA. i've told you why I think it's important to not vote for the democrats and not encourage their rightward slide into a loving death cult. now tell me why you think it's a good idea to endorse that behavior. tell me why you think it's ok to signal to the party that you'll vote for rapists and murderers as long as they have a D next to their name? cause that's how they'll interpret your vote. not as a begrudging "i only did this to fight trump please move left dems!!" but that you were ok with everything biden has done and is doing.
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Apr 5, 2020 00:32
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:Saying that choosing not to vote for a rapist is supporting a rapist is not the way it loving ways. Not supporting biden doesn't mean you tacitly support trump. In effect, the choice is one rapist, another rapist already in power, or not voting, supporting the status quo of a rapist in power. I see no realistic way around this unless a third party led by a non-rapist stands a chance, which right now doesn't seem to be true. Voting for one now leads to effectively supporting keeping the other rapist in power. It will not remove him if you do so.
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Apr 5, 2020 00:35
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RBA Starblade posted:In effect, the choice is one rapist, another rapist already in power, or not voting, supporting the status quo of a rapist in power. I see no realistic way around this unless a third party led by a non-rapist stands a chance, which right now doesn't seem to be true. Voting for one now leads to effectively supporting keeping the other rapist in power. It will not remove him if you do so. the trolley problem understander has logged on
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Apr 5, 2020 00:37
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Condiv posted:answer the question RBA. i've told you why I think it's important to not vote for the democrats and not encourage their rightward slide into a loving death cult. now tell me why you think it's a good idea to endorse that behavior. tell me why you think it's ok to signal to the party that you'll vote for rapists and murderers as long as they have a D next to their name? cause that's how they'll interpret your vote. not as a begrudging "i only did this to fight trump please move left dems!!" but that you were ok with everything biden has done and is doing. The answer is no, I do not think Both Sides Are As Bad As The Other. I do not think Biden is good. This should be clear from saying so already. I do think putting more Democrats into office will help more people and give us a greater chance to change things than Republicans. So instead, are you are ok with everything Trump has done and is doing? Are you ok with the death cult in power staying in power? Do you think you will get the opportunity to change anything about that with another four years of allowing them to remain in charge? Are you sure? Obviously we won't change each others minds, so I hope if you get the world you push for you get that chance. quote:the trolley problem understander has logged on lol RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Apr 5, 2020 |
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Apr 5, 2020 00:40
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