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blunt posted:If Bojo dies does parliament have to reconvene to vote confidence in a new PM? no
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Apr 6, 2020 13:10
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wrt the guardian and media in general; I won't pretend I've always known the guardian's long history of being shits and a lot of that information has arrived as anecdotes when I've been talking to people about their post greenwald bullshit, but we're in an era where historic support of "correct" principles is very important to everyone. It's old, yet continues to be allowed to exist in 2020. It's very safe to assume that this means "this organisation has never actually threatened power" see also unions that won't use class power continuing to exist vs radical ones like the wobblies being obliterated every few decades Azza Bamboo posted:Go to war because you don't like bosses? the military rhetoric that surrounds what the left does was born in a state of constant war by industrialising nations culminating in the great war and 1917. It was a way to understand the world in contemporary terms. When the left could not be argued and only subverted after ww2, when everyone was disgusted and traumatised by both exploitation and violence, the rhetoric is kept by capitalist societies because militarism is bad so the left is bad. Let's be really loving clear, saying "jeff bezos is not worth a billion dollars, it is not possible to be worth that amount of inequality in our society, and we must all take ownership of our labour to be rid of these loving vampires" is not about kicking your manager in. Managers are there to piss you off so you don't see the owner's hand in your pocket. When we take back what is ours, in the name of building a society that's not only capable of surviving the next century but also provides people with security, decency and self-respect, the only people beginning any violence are those who want to keep what they know they could never create, at all our expense. The point of a left wing political party should be that if you take that message to a national stage, over and over again, until people begin to see the truth in it around them, then you can avoid violence by making it clear that there can only be a devastating loss. It is not that fighting to defend yourself from exploitation and circumstancial violence can ever be wrong, it's that kicking in your manager is completely pointless.
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Apr 6, 2020 13:11
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Cerv posted:no That's good!
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Apr 6, 2020 13:12
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Guavanaut posted:I've just this minute got a personal letter through my door from the Prime Minister saying I'm allowed to go out to exercise once a day, so I will be showing them that if they try. Wow, how did you get a letter from a dead man??
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Apr 6, 2020 13:15
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It's totally changing my opinion on 5G if this is the last time Boris gets ill.
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Apr 6, 2020 13:18
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I'd be worried about being stopped by police while riding my bike if I ever saw a Police officer about the place. They're like hens teeth around here.
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Apr 6, 2020 13:31
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The rhetoric of the-full-fruits-of-your-labour still falls flat; this is why Corbynism avoided it in favour of the public services/99% pitch. Too many people - especially those who are the main focus on center-left-big-tent-party largesse - are just straight-up not in the labour force to begin with. Socialism in the 21st century seems instead to find its successes in convincing the aspirational classes that they really deserve to be invested in as a moral project, rather than to contextualize left politics in terms of individualist redistributive justice alone (there are many reasons why that falling-flat still happens, I think, but this ventures more into sociological debate)
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Apr 6, 2020 13:38
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another john harris article that doesn't really say anything but has to be shat out to meet his deadline. he has no material now he can't go talk to elderly racists in wigan lol https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/05/boris-johnson-failed-unifying-leader-keir-starmer-coronavirus-crisis
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Apr 6, 2020 13:42
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blunt posted:If Bojo dies does parliament have to reconvene to vote confidence in a new PM? No the PM is just the leader of the party of Government, it's the Tories that are in power not Bojo so it's no good until every single one of them is dead in the ground.
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Apr 6, 2020 13:46
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I think the public services pitch falls flat. People don't want to be told they need all this stuff or that they're so weak they have to mooch. Sure you can make a conspiracy theory as to how this feeling is engineered by people to shame them into avoiding your just war, but the pitches around employment have a psychological power that a socialist rhetoric lacks. They make anyone who hasn't fallen completely on their rear end (and they're relying on this being a majority) feel like they did it out of their own strength. Even where they haven't. If you can find a form of socialism that doesn't feel patronising, instead of relying on A: having everyone believe there's a big conspiracy to have them feel the way they do or B: the total destabilisation of society by disaster or military force (yikes) then maybe there could be some headway made.
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Apr 6, 2020 13:48
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Deptfordx posted:I'd be worried about being stopped by police while riding my bike if I ever saw a Police officer about the place. They're like hens teeth around here. The traffic near me has been lighter the last two times I was out, but I also saw cops in unmarked cars pulling people to presumably question why they are out or why they were flooring it quite so much             oh hey have a farm image dump I suppose, stay safe and stay away from humans
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Apr 6, 2020 13:50
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Lord_Hambrose posted:People have not rebelled or turned to socialism yet, so it remains to be seen if they will. If you don't think it can happen through elections you will have to, personally, be willing to commit violence against your fellow man to get your way. I don't condone or advocate violence, either from the state or individuals, though in the 21st century will they talk about going back in time and preventing climate change the way people talk about killing child Hitler? I am interested to see what counter-movement comes out from covid-19 and the upcoming recession, particularly how to enact change peacefully.
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Apr 6, 2020 13:50
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I hope something comes out of Covid, but I'm fully expecting a sense of normality to return as soon as possible. Keyword being sense. The whole world could be on fire but so long as someone gets to drive their car to work and have a cup of tea at their desk and some scones for lunch, I'm sure they could start to invite the fifteen foot tall flames they pass on the commute into their sense of normal.
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Apr 6, 2020 13:55
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justcola posted:I don't condone or advocate violence, either from the state or individuals, though in the 21st century will they talk about going back in time and preventing climate change the way people talk about killing child Hitler? please read zizek op Azza Bamboo posted:I think the public services pitch falls flat. People don't want to be told they need all this stuff or that they're so weak they have to mooch. Sure you can make a conspiracy theory as to how this feeling is engineered by people to shame them into avoiding your just war, but the pitches around employment have a psychological power that a socialist rhetoric lacks. They make anyone who hasn't fallen completely on their rear end (and they're relying on this being a majority) feel like they did it out of their own strength. Even where they haven't. and again
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Apr 6, 2020 13:57
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I've not really been following the Scotland chief medical officer news, but did she get caught by stupidly posting stuff on twitter or was she being stalked by newspaper reporters?
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Apr 6, 2020 13:59
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looks like a harlequin, confirm the id and kill the fucker
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Apr 6, 2020 14:02
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Kin posted:I've not really been following the Scotland chief medical officer news, but did she get caught by stupidly posting stuff on twitter or was she being stalked by newspaper reporters? She didn't follow her own advice about coronavirus and was caught repeatedly making trips to her second home.
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Apr 6, 2020 14:03
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Azza Bamboo posted:I don't do it, though. Why? How much of any of our ideas are ours and not just the way society asks us to feel about things?
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Apr 6, 2020 14:08
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ronya posted:The rhetoric of the-full-fruits-of-your-labour still falls flat; this is why Corbynism avoided it in favour of the public services/99% pitch. Too many people - especially those who are the main focus on center-left-big-tent-party largesse - are just straight-up not in the labour force to begin with. has anyone said coronyavirus yet
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Apr 6, 2020 14:09
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Puntification posted:She didn't follow her own advice about coronavirus and was caught repeatedly making trips to her second home. Well yeah, i got that part, but how did she get caught?
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Apr 6, 2020 14:12
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Guavanaut posted:Tanks work for some things. Nazis, for example. Tanks work well against them. They are pretty effective against both! They are effective when wielded by nazis against peaceful or armed protestors, and effective when wielded by the Communist Party of China against protestors in Tiananmen Square, and also again when used in large numbers against Nazis. Tanks: your one stop shop for enforcing your will by violence. This post was brought to you by the tank marketing board.
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Apr 6, 2020 14:14
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Pound_Coin posted:Guardian chat: a longread about how the guardian got co-opted to lick boots harder: https://consortiumnews.com/2019/09/11/uk-security-services-neutralized-countrys-leading-liberal-newspaper/ Consortiumnews posted:
I like the cut of this website's jib.
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Apr 6, 2020 14:15
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Josef bugman posted:Why? How much of any of our ideas are ours and not just the way society asks us to feel about things? This is the kind of dispute patent law is made to resolve
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Apr 6, 2020 14:16
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Azza Bamboo posted:I think the public services pitch falls flat. People don't want to be told they need all this stuff or that they're so weak they have to mooch. Sure you can make a conspiracy theory as to how this feeling is engineered by people to shame them into avoiding your just war, but the pitches around employment have a psychological power that a socialist rhetoric lacks. They make anyone who hasn't fallen completely on their rear end (and they're relying on this being a majority) feel like they did it out of their own strength. Even where they haven't. you're not wrong there, but at the same time, the folks who tell the focus groups that don't want handouts also tell the focus groups that they feel that they're stuck treading water even whilst putting in as many hours as they can get, that the cost of living is just too high, and they don't understand how some folks around them seem to be getting by nonetheless and it all seems too random and unfair. They feel that work doesn't pay enough, but they're deeply suspicious of income support. They feel like housing is too expensive, but they're skeptical of pledges to provide more social housing. (this being the terrible dilemma that leads a bright young 'un to pitch free broadband as a way for people to upskill themselves for the new economy so it's self-help and not free stuff at all! but this still feels too handout-sy to folks who don't stew in New Industrial Revolution idioms all the time, it turns out. Whoops.) it's still the case that the move toward lower tuition fees and cheaper/freer childcare has shifted the zeitgeist... okay, maybe Britain did not need an agonizing seismic shift in the Labour party for the politics of the squeezed middle to assert itself. Still, nobody really has any bright ideas here. ronya fucked around with this message at 14:22 on Apr 6, 2020 |
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Apr 6, 2020 14:17
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lovely stuff
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Apr 6, 2020 14:18
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Kin posted:Well yeah, i got that part, but how did she get caught? original Sun article doesn’t say who tipped them off. but quotes “a source” who sounds like a pissed off neighbour. looks like they’d sent their own photographer to catch her, rather than reposting something off Twitter so I’d 99% guess the neighbour tipped them off after the first visit, then Calderwood was stupid enough to go down again the next weekend
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Apr 6, 2020 14:20
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Azza Bamboo posted:This is the kind of dispute patent law is made to resolve Isn't patent law all about ensuring that things people "create" become used by a few uber rich companies who buy out anything that might change things and build it into something they want to see? ronya posted:Still, nobody really has any bright ideas here. 
Josef bugman fucked around with this message at 14:23 on Apr 6, 2020 |
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Apr 6, 2020 14:20
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Beefeater1980 posted:They are pretty effective against both! They are effective when wielded by nazis against peaceful or armed protestors, and effective when wielded by the Communist Party of China against protestors in Tiananmen Square, and also again when used in large numbers against Nazis. The problem isn't that tanks can't disperse a peaceful protest, the problem is that they can't do it without making you look like an rear end.
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Apr 6, 2020 14:20
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Really busy outside today with pedestrians, honestly feels like people are getting more and more lax with the staying at home stuff.
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Apr 6, 2020 14:22
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Kin posted:Well yeah, i got that part, but how did she get caught? edit, curse you cerv. Is Boris dead yet? And is buying bubbly considered essential travel?
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Apr 6, 2020 14:26
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I was literally followed around by the loving pigs yesterday. I was nowhere near anyone and nor were the three other people they hassled on their way towards me luckily I found a wall to hide behind while they were distracted until they went away again and then I went and sat back down and kept drinking lol
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Apr 6, 2020 14:27
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Barry Foster posted:I was literally followed around by the loving pigs yesterday. I was nowhere near anyone and nor were the three other people they hassled on their way towards me Glad to see they have their top men on the case.
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Apr 6, 2020 14:28
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This really is the world's shittiest dystopia, I swear this weekend finished me off I'd keep drinking but I'm out of booze except maybe a bit of gin somewhere and half a can of cider I didn't finish last night but my god it makes me feel physically poo poo now that i'm old
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Apr 6, 2020 14:30
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Are people still getting post delivered generally? I've had nothing since Wednesday and am expecting things that I know have been sent.
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Apr 6, 2020 14:32
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Azza Bamboo posted:If you can find a form of socialism that doesn't feel patronising, instead of relying on having everyone believe there's a big conspiracy to have them feel the way they do, then maybe there could be some headway workers movements everywhere are vibrant, violent, colourful uprisings, many see huge support when they push self-reliance and taking the boss' poo poo cos its yours anyway etc. look at italy in the 60s and 70s for example. if there is a self pitying or learned helpless to the uk left it's definitely unique to here i think. maybe the US has a similar vibe idk.
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Apr 6, 2020 14:33
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peanut- posted:Are people still getting post delivered generally? I've had nothing since Wednesday and am expecting things that I know have been sent. I got a load of stuff delivered today. I think the previous delivery was wednesday, so maybe they are a little infrequent at the moment.
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Apr 6, 2020 14:34
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saw a police van driving out of the park yesterday, I assume they'd been in there trying to make sure no one thinks about sitting down at any point
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Apr 6, 2020 14:34
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peanut- posted:Are people still getting post delivered generally? I've had nothing since Wednesday and am expecting things that I know have been sent. Haven't had anything for quite a few days now. I imagine it's a really lovely time to be a postman to be honest. It's hard to complete most rounds at the best of times, let alone when every fucker in the country is buying literally everything online and half the delivery office is off sick and/or self-isolating. That, plus the fact that they're not allowed to van-share at the moment means that I would imagine there is a quite frankly ridiculous backlog in every delivery office.
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Apr 6, 2020 14:35
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peanut- posted:Are people still getting post delivered generally? I've had nothing since Wednesday and am expecting things that I know have been sent. Not at all and I've been really pissed off about it. I'm glad that it's not just me though because I've been geuinely convinced the postie is stealing from me
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Apr 6, 2020 14:36
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Bardeh posted:Really busy outside today with pedestrians, honestly feels like people are getting more and more lax with the staying at home stuff. More people are going to do the permitted exercise and dogwalking, or walk to the non-essential jobs masses of people still have to do, when it's sunny.
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Apr 6, 2020 14:37
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