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OhDearGodNo posted:An administration similar to the Obama one Maybe the obama administration shouldnt have spent 8 years flipping off the people who voted for hope and change.
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Apr 9, 2020 14:38
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The Sean posted:And this is exactly why things will never change. "well we don't want any improvement to society so we'll just throw out a lovely candidate that keeps our corporate and finance interests in mind because dems will vote for anyone who simply checks the box of 'marginally better than GOP candidate." Because those are your options, and not choosing is choosing the greater evil.
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Apr 9, 2020 14:38
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Dietrich posted:Because those are your options, and not choosing is choosing the greater evil. Or, choosing the lesser evil signals that I'm fine with evil. How exactly do we signal to the dem leadership that we don't want lovely dems like hillary and biden? by voting for them? Like, whether you agree with me or not, how do we stop dems from running poo poo candidates if we keep supporting them due to #votebluenomatterwho? That gives them no accountability whatsoever because they *know* they will get your vote. #votebluenomatterwho = "lol we can just run who the fuckever and these people will vote for them because they have to." The Sean fucked around with this message at 14:42 on Apr 9, 2020 |
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Apr 9, 2020 14:39
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Bernie has been out of the race for one day and my soul is already crushed from the Vote Biden vs Don't Vote argument.
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Apr 9, 2020 14:41
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The Sean posted:And this is exactly why things will never change. "well we don't want any improvement to society so we'll just throw out a lovely candidate that keeps our corporate and finance interests in mind because dems will vote for anyone who simply checks the box of 'marginally better than GOP candidate." This is why our country has been sliding right for decades. Your choices keep getting worse, not better. Your democratic candidates are becoming more centrist, not less. Show the party that even a centrist Dem can't win, and they'll put up Mitt Romney in 2024. If you want a more progressive candidate to get the nom, you have to show that a person more progressive than Trump can win in a national election.
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Apr 9, 2020 14:41
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Yawgmoft posted:Your choices keep getting worse, not better. Your democratic candidates are becoming more centrist, not less. Show the party that even a centrist Dem can't win, and they'll put up Mitt Romney in 2024. If you want a more progressive candidate to get the nom, you have to show that a person more progressive than Trump can win in a national election. Oh, so like Bernie? Nope, they took that choice away from me. We're already here. They already have their center-right dem. I didn't make this choice. Also, it's not on me to "show that a person more progressive than Trump can win a national election." I don't have to prove Bernie or AOC or whoever can win. It's up to the DNC to actually give a gently caress about progressive candidates. They've proven they don't. They also have electoral college type bullshit and DNC leadership said "it doesn't matter who voters pick, we get to decide." The Sean fucked around with this message at 14:47 on Apr 9, 2020 |
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Apr 9, 2020 14:43
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But look! It’s less than last week! The curve is flattening!
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Apr 9, 2020 14:47
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Do you believe Biden will be just as as bad or worse in disaster relief to the people of Puerto Rico. If not, does maintaining your idealogical purity worth their continued suffering.
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Apr 9, 2020 14:47
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What is the highest unemployment rate that an incumbent president has won re-election with? (Before Trump wins with like 14% in November)
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Apr 9, 2020 14:48
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mcmagic posted:Bernie has been out of the race for one day and my soul is already crushed from the Vote Biden vs Don't Vote argument. then avoid D&D for the next 6 months. I know I'll try to.
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Apr 9, 2020 14:48
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Not that I like the "blame China" narrative because it's often couched in racism and deflects the issues with everyone else's slow response, but I'm not sure what this proves - the argument/narrative I see is largely that China covered this up early on. Arguably there wouldn't be those European cases if China wasn't trying to save face.
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Apr 9, 2020 14:50
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24 hours ago I actually thought Biden had a chance of winning. Now, after the unemployment numbers came out, I don't.
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Apr 9, 2020 14:50
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Brrrr baby brrrr https://twitter.com/CNBCnow/status/1248227476855296001?s=19
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Apr 9, 2020 14:51
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You cannot shame people into voting. Shame in general is the only weapon liberals have left and it's worse than useless. 'Vote blue no matter who' means 'I literally have no standards' and look at what it's got you, unelectable nepotism cases who demonstrably can't stand up to a senile game show host. Nobody expects Biden to do anything, including his supporters.
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Apr 9, 2020 14:52
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Armitage posted:24 hours ago I actually thought Biden had a chance of winning. Now, after the unemployment numbers came out, I don't. Why would higher unemployment help Trump? Theoretically it should help Biden... I think Biden is going to lose too but not because of anything that happened in the last day.
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Apr 9, 2020 14:53
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The Sean posted:Or, choosing the lesser evil signals that I'm fine with evil. How exactly do we signal to the dem leadership that we don't want lovely dems like hillary and biden? by voting for them? By voting in non-lovely dems in primaries as often as possible. By getting involved in the party and pushing for a more progressive agenda. By calling your reps and demanding support for progressive policies.
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Apr 9, 2020 14:54
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mcmagic posted:What is the highest unemployment rate that an incumbent president has won re-election with? (Before Trump wins with like 14% in November) FDR had something like 16% in 1936.
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Apr 9, 2020 14:54
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Twibbit posted:Do you believe Biden will be just as as bad or worse in disaster relief to the people of Puerto Rico. If not, does maintaining your idealogical purity worth their continued suffering. It's not worth validating a rapist and rewarding the tactic of winning the nomination through backroom deals. In the same way, do you think it'd be worth rigging the vote for Biden, if you could? In your words, is the moral purity of not being an election rigger worth more than their suffering? Aside from that, there's also something called a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trigger_strategy The prospect of people not voting for the Democratic Party is the only thing keeping it from veering rightward of public opinion within the party. galenanorth fucked around with this message at 14:59 on Apr 9, 2020 |
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Apr 9, 2020 14:55
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Morrow posted:FDR had something like 16% in 1936. Ok. But 1936 also had 13% (lol) GDP growth.
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Apr 9, 2020 14:56
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Dietrich posted:By voting in non-lovely dems in primaries as often as possible. By getting involved in the party and pushing for a more progressive agenda. By calling your reps and demanding support for progressive policies. I didn't see "vote biden" in there. As a sidenote, I do vote as often as I can--not just presidential years.
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Apr 9, 2020 14:57
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The Sean posted:Or, choosing the lesser evil signals that I'm fine with evil. How exactly do we signal to the dem leadership that we don't want lovely dems like hillary and biden? by voting for them? Well guess what: you're still going to get evil either way, whether you like it or not. It sucks, but what can we do about it now for 2020? The only way to signal to them that you don't want a lovely candidate is to encourage others to vote for a better candidate. Unfortunately, not enough people did that for Sanders, and now he's out of the race. Willo567 fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Apr 9, 2020 |
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Apr 9, 2020 14:57
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Elect senators.
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Apr 9, 2020 14:58
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Willo567 posted:Well guess what: you're still going to get evil either way, whether you like it or not. You didn't respond to anything in the post of mine that you quoted.
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Apr 9, 2020 14:59
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The Sean posted:Or, choosing the lesser evil signals that I'm fine with evil. How exactly do we signal to the dem leadership that we don't want lovely dems like hillary and biden? by voting for them? Not choosing signals you're fine with greater evil, you signal dem leadership that you want more progressive candidates by winning primaries with more progressive candidates. If you can't do that then you need to work on convincing the electorate to support more progressive candidates. All this talk about centrist voltron and sending the DNC a message by not voting are at it's core a gripe that the DNC foiled the plan to win in an anti-democratic fashion by splitting the vote or forcing people to vote how you want them to using fear of a Trump presidency. Supporting Trump by not voting isn't a principled stand, it's taking innocent people as hostages Or more accurately the threat during the primary is taking hostages, what you're suggesting is shooting them to send a message.
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Apr 9, 2020 14:59
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The Sean posted:I didn't see "vote biden" in there. Cool, let the GOP keep loving over the election apparatuses and further sabotage the ability of progressives to get elected outside of blue strongholds. Excellent plan.
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Apr 9, 2020 15:01
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Oxyclean posted:Not that I like the "blame China" narrative because it's often couched in racism and deflects the issues with everyone else's slow response, but I'm not sure what this proves - the argument/narrative I see is largely that China covered this up early on. Arguably there wouldn't be those European cases if China wasn't trying to save face. True but I think it is still worthwhile to undercut the narrative of "China infected the U.S." that is contributing to a lot of xenophobic and anti-Asian harassment and violence right now. Unrelated but the US is still (directly) plundering medical supplies from other countries. https://twitter.com/KevzPolitics/status/1248219107234897922 Strongarm politics are back!
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Apr 9, 2020 15:02
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DreamingofRoses posted:Cool, let the GOP keep loving over the election apparatuses and further sabotage the ability of progressives to get elected outside of blue strongholds. Excellent plan. I can still vote for other things, you know, right?
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Apr 9, 2020 15:02
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Jarmak posted:Not choosing signals you're fine with greater evil, you signal dem leadership that you want more progressive candidates by winning primaries with more progressive candidates. The Democrats were already marching voters to their deaths to get Biden elected. That's probably a significant reason why Bernie dropped out. We're past shooting hostages. You can browbeat every single user of this forum into voting for Biden, it's not going to make a difference. Millions of people are going to stay home rather than choose which rapist who openly hates them to vote for.
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Apr 9, 2020 15:02
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DreamingofRoses posted:Cool, let the GOP keep loving over the election apparatuses and further sabotage the ability of progressives to get elected outside of blue strongholds. Excellent plan. This is going to happen no matter who wins the presidential.
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Apr 9, 2020 15:03
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"Supporting Trump by not voting isn't a principled stand, it's taking innocent people as hostages" Nah, actually the establishment is the one taking hostages through arranging backroom deals, blacklisting organizations who help Congressional primary challengers, and refusing to delay primaries so that voters in Illinois went out in person and died https://twitter.com/caitielee0917/status/1243279632184619010 This is the first election where I'm a Green Party voter, because of what I saw in this election. galenanorth fucked around with this message at 15:06 on Apr 9, 2020 |
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Apr 9, 2020 15:03
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The Sean posted:I can still vote for other things, you know, right? mcmagic posted:This is going to happen no matter who wins the presidential. Keep justifying it to yourselves. Keep saying that the liberals are the true enemies of the left while the GOP death cult keeps picking the progressives off.
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Apr 9, 2020 15:06
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I think it's more respectable not to vote than to vote for the Green Party. They are cranks and morons. Third party politics is a complete waste of time on the national level.
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Apr 9, 2020 15:07
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The Sean posted:I can still vote for other things, you know, right? Who are you going to vote for who will have no chance in hell of winning? Willo567 fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Apr 9, 2020 |
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Apr 9, 2020 15:08
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Jarmak posted:Not choosing signals you're fine with greater evil, you signal dem leadership that you want more progressive candidates by winning primaries with more progressive candidates. It's mostly this. Most Democratic voters just aren't all that leftist these days, folks. You can take it out on the Democratic Party by calling them out for being stuck in 80's era Reaganomic or 90's DLC principles, but most of the voters simply aren't there yet.
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Apr 9, 2020 15:08
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Doctor Butts posted:It's mostly this. Most Democratic voters just aren't all that leftist these days, folks. It's not that voters aren't leftist enough, it's that voters are loving sheep who do pretty much what they are told by the media and the establishment.
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Apr 9, 2020 15:11
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Doctor Butts posted:It's mostly this. Most Democratic voters just aren't all that leftist these days, folks. https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/403248-poll-seventy-percent-of-americans-support-medicare-for-all 70% of Americans currently support Medicare for All. That's unrelated to the support for Biden partly due to the centrist Voltron tactic.
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Apr 9, 2020 15:11
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Willo567 posted:Who are you going to vote for who will have no chance in hell of winning? Given that your last response didn't answer anything at all that you quoted from me I'll wait for you to do that first before responding to anything else you say. Go back. Reread what you quoted from me. Respond to it. edit: isn't it against the rules now for doing what you did? responding to my post without having any rhetorical basis or really any meat of a response at all? The Sean fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Apr 9, 2020 |
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Apr 9, 2020 15:11
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galenanorth posted:https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/403248-poll-seventy-percent-of-americans-support-medicare-for-all Those polls are just leftist masturbation since they have literally zero impact on the outcome of elections.
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Apr 9, 2020 15:12
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Mat Cauthon posted:True but I think it is still worthwhile to undercut the narrative of "China infected the U.S." that is contributing to a lot of xenophobic and anti-Asian harassment and violence right now. What the gently caress are they doing with all of it?  It's not going to the states in need
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Apr 9, 2020 15:13
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Doctor Butts posted:It's mostly this. Most Democratic voters just aren't all that leftist these days, folks. this is a straight up lie, incidentally. voters who wanted M4A were the overwhelming majority, and they voted for the guy who said if it got to his desk he'd veto it.
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Apr 9, 2020 15:14
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