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Arist posted:Why are you doing this? Talking about the effect that the not-voters will have in the GE? Because another poster brought it up with that tweet.
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Apr 9, 2020 18:44
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How are u posted:I don't care about your vote, I care about the votes of people in swing and competitive states. You are telling those people to vote for Trump. (or to not vote against him)
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Apr 9, 2020 18:44
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Mr Hootington posted:https://twitter.com/wideofthepost/status/1248254115421052928?s=19 Haha god drat. The Dems just wiped out their lead in the youth vote.
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Apr 9, 2020 18:44
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Xombie posted:What does "my TL" mean? His timeline, or the feed of tweets that he sees based on who he follows on Twitter. Velocity Raptor posted:Jesus, of course this idea would already be written about as satire. Do you have several billion dollars to fund, develop, and operate a complex infrastructure of proxy groups that can do everything from producing policy templates and position papers to doing on the ground organizing/mobilization to carrying out sophisticated targeted advertising and messaging campaigns to gaining and holding positions throughout the party hierarchy in order to subtlety advocate for your ideology? Over the course of several decades? It would be that hard, and then some.
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Apr 9, 2020 18:45
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Xombie posted:Talking about the effect that the not-voters will have in the GE? Because another poster brought it up with that tweet. I meant, "antagonizing most of the thread."
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Apr 9, 2020 18:45
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Simiain posted:Republicans got where they are today by voting against things, not for them. They never voted FOR GWBush, they voted against Clinton ('s VP), no one loving votes FOR Romney, they voted against Obama. This seems to consistently work! Lefties please do this in 2020! The degree to which the left has consistently correctly identified the effective, winning techniques employed by the fascists to succeed within electoralism while simultaneously refusing to learn from any of them is probably the most frustrating aspect of American politics, to me
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Apr 9, 2020 18:45
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Arglebargle III posted:Haha god drat. The Dems just wiped out their lead in the youth vote. I'll take an 11 point lead in 65+ over the youth vote because they actually go to the polls.
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Apr 9, 2020 18:46
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Manager Hoyden posted:I suppose I could hold my nose and vote for Biden simply because I don't think he is going to be alive or mentally competent by Jan 2021. I mean this is just me speaking for me, but I feel like if my main hope for the candidate I'm voting for is "Maybe he'll die and someone better will replace him" then perhaps something in the system is irredeemably hosed and some other action needs to be taken
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Apr 9, 2020 18:46
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https://twitter.com/PercyYaBysshe/status/1248288067259162630
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Apr 9, 2020 18:47
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Arist posted:Why are you doing this? The nefarious Bernie Bro has simultaneously never voted in an election ever yet is a core voter that we cannot win without or ever concede anything to.
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Apr 9, 2020 18:47
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sit on my Facebook posted:The degree to which the left has consistently correctly identified the effective, winning techniques employed by the fascists to succeed within electoralism while simultaneously refusing to learn from any of them is probably the most frustrating aspect of American politics, to me The right succeeds because their party moves in lockstep with a massive media apparatus to continually push the Overton window ever rightward. The left can't fight this by voting for candidates pushed as compromises before the primary has even begun.
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Apr 9, 2020 18:48
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Simiain posted:Republicans got where they are today by voting against things, not for them. They never voted FOR GWBush, they voted against Clinton ('s VP), no one loving votes FOR Romney, they voted against Obama. This seems to consistently work! Lefties please do this in 2020! And the way they get people to do this is telling them lives are at stake, like unborn babies and your own! From terrists! Meanwhile, actual Trans and other minority lives are at stake if we get another Trump term. Arist posted:The right succeeds because their party moves in lockstep with a massive media apparatus to continually push the Overton window ever rightward. The left can't fight this by voting for candidates pushed as compromises before the primary has even begun. Agreed but people seem to think protest voting does that?
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Apr 9, 2020 18:48
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Worth remembering this election is a referendum on Trumpism. Maybe I'm not thinking enough about all this but I just want Trumps poo poo to be kicked in, and to answer Pester Jane's question: yes, I'll be happy if the person doing the kicking is some kind of cannibal serial killer. A casual attitude to murder is a pre-req for the job anyway
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Apr 9, 2020 18:49
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llennoCcM hctiM! llennoCcM hctiM!
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Apr 9, 2020 18:50
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Jaxyon posted:And the way they get people to do this is telling them lives are at stake, like unborn babies and your own! From terrists! Protest voting is entirely a mechanism to make people feel better, in my opinion. I don't really give a poo poo about it and neither should you.
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Apr 9, 2020 18:50
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Arist posted:I meant, "antagonizing most of the thread." Generally the antagonism is because there is a sharp divide in the Democratic Party over "Is the divide in the Democratic Party Ideological or Strategic?" To one side, the everyone basically agrees on goals and values, but disagree on what the effective path there is. To the other side, there isn't an agreement on goals and values and there is a critical ideological difference between the two sides. So if you're on the side that thinks this is a massive ideological gulf then you don't really consider the people who you believe disagree with you on values as being on the same "team" with the same goals. But the other side does think they're on the same team. So this conflict then escalates as one side belittles the other over "poor strategic choices" while the other side belittles the other over "immoral choices". Now that those who claim to be ideologically the same have "won" the primary so they're frustrated that the other side still believes in the fundamental values divide.
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Apr 9, 2020 18:51
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Arist posted:I meant, "antagonizing most of the thread." I'm not, I'm responding to the sentiment in the tweet. Trabisnikof posted:
I voted for Bernie today in the Ohio primary. I'm also not one of the people trying to get Bernie voters to vote for Biden.
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Apr 9, 2020 18:51
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The Sean posted:I think I wrote something like this in the last thread, but I'm going to repeat it here. You have done SO MUCH mental gymnastics to avoid realizing that there are two levers to pull in the next election, D or R. If everyone in the D coalition pulls the D lever, we win. If you pull R, the R will win. If you don't pull the lever, stay home, or draw mickey mouse on the lever, the R wins. If you do anything but pull the D lever the R wins. There is no other scenario in which any other outcome happens. Like it, don't like it, bemoan about it, think about how that affects the future, you can do literally anything you want with this information EXCEPT change the outcome. Either we win or we don't. If you think Biden will be ineffective or not a good President that's one thing but the Trump winning outcome is the end of any left movement, any DNC, anything that is even remotely close to a Country likely ceases to exist and everything you love likely comes complete and utter end. There is no winning the war with 1-4 SC seats up for grabs and hundreds of lifetime judge appointments on the table and losing them. There are so many important things at stake before we even get to anything related to policy, governance, or quality of the candidate/presidency. This is not an emotional decision it's a simple, only loving option we have decision. Not liking that decision is completely irrelevant. We cannot fight any future battles against laws that will not work in our favor. The only other option is armed insurrection and I'm 100% sure everyone is not about that life. This is a pipe-dream and anything accelerationist will lead to much more human suffering than we even have now, and there may not be any coming out the other side of that scenario as a society anymore. This is a sacrifice that we ALL must make in order to avoid the doomsday scenario. If people are unwilling to make that sacrifice their actions will have been DIRECTLY causal to the outcome and suffering that follows.
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Apr 9, 2020 18:52
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Very few leftists ever run attack ads, even attacking policy. People will say that something as tepid as that Elizabeth Warren does best with well-to-do suburbanite college-goers constitutes an egregious attack. "Both sides" centrism means falsely conflating a mustard-stained shirt with a shirt covered in mustard to self-aggrandize yourself in the sensible middle, but it can be applied toward any two political positions, not just overall centrism. Might as well go all out and go nuclear at the starting gate
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Apr 9, 2020 18:53
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Yuzenn posted:You have done SO MUCH mental gymnastics to avoid realizing that there are two levers to pull in the next election, D or R. If everyone in the D coalition pulls the D lever, we win. If you pull R, the R will win. The scenario you're describing is so existentially loving bleak that I can't imagine it doing anything other than cementing how little agency any of us have and depressing the poo poo out of everyone. It's not gonna make anyone vote, either.
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Apr 9, 2020 18:54
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do people think i voted for hillary clinton because i was super excited and happy and whistling on my way to the polls? bernie was able to navigate the trump way, biden has no clue. he's going to give speeches to republicans about how much he'll help them, and then give speeches to democrats about how they need to settle down. he already does that. it's going to be trump gleefully kicking biden in the balls over and over while biden says "come on, man" and winks at the crowd. no one pictures biden being able to win, he's vulnerable in every direction for so many reasons and has no ability to even remember what his positions where let alone respond on the fly. we're going to hear a LOT of walkbacks and outright lies. and, even if he does win, no one pictures him fixing things.
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Apr 9, 2020 18:55
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No matter how the tiny number of goons here will end up voting, I think we can all agree that it is a terrible failure of... something... that our leftmost choice for president is pretty far to the right of Nixon and hovers just around Reagan all issues considered (more progressive on some, more regressive on others). This sucks. Like the best we can possibly choose would be considered a right-wing looney anywhere else in the developed world.
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Apr 9, 2020 18:55
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Xombie posted:Ah yes, the same people who didn't come out to vote for Bernie in the numbers he needed, because they stay home every election no matter who is running. You're responding to the point he made in the tweet now? VH4Ever fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Apr 9, 2020 |
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Apr 9, 2020 18:56
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Arist posted:The right succeeds because their party moves in lockstep with a massive media apparatus to continually push the Overton window ever rightward. The left can't fight this by voting for candidates pushed as compromises before the primary has even begun. Eh I mean, this is true, but also not the whole story right? Another huge part of the reason is that the Republican voters hotly contest any election they can get their claws on at any level from dog-catcher on up, and consistently crawl over broken glass to vote for the candidates they want, going so far as to upend their party's preferences fairly regularly, at least in comparison to democrats. Remember Eric Cantor? Dude didn't just quit one day. The Republicans formed a massive lock-step voting bloc... and then those voters took over the party! The fox news watching inmates took over the asylum because, as it turns out, the party is eventually obligated to bend to the will of the people who make up all the votes they get in every single election. Mysteriously, they do not seem to care too much about the preferences of the people who do not make up the core of their voting base, or protest (non)voters. Why?
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Apr 9, 2020 18:56
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Pervis posted:That's a fun dance you got there. Obama is responsible for pulling out troops in Iraq leading to ISIS.. which came in to existence in 2006, after Bush blew the gently caress out of the region, and then you argue that the Trump administration is moving for a withdrawl.. which still hasn't happened, and would still end with the Taliban in control, which is exactly what you think Biden/Obama did bad at in Iraq? You also failed to address Trump's open support of Netanyahu who was unhappy with the Obama administration but is getting everything he wants now. The Iraq and Afghanistan situations are not analogous, but I was pointing out that Obama promised to withdraw from Afghanistan and ended up just prolonging our involvement there. Biden, as part of the Obama administration, bears responsibility for this and is not better than Trump in this regard. The Taliban are horrible, but outside of allowing Osama Bin Laden to train in Afghanistan, they have not shown much interest in invading their neighbors. I did not say that Obama created ISIS, just that he created the conditions that allowed them to take control of a large area of land and establish their caliphate. Again, Biden wants credit for managing the withdrawal from Iraq without taking any of the blame for the consequences of how that was done. Saudi Arabia will simply buy a turn key nuclear arsenal from the Pakistanis if they ever feel it is necessary. But the US has been Saudi Arabia's staunch ally for decades and you have not addressed that the Yemen war and US support for it started under the Obama/Biden administration. As far as the judges go, I am sure that Biden will be able to get liberal judges confirmed by the senate and will not be stymied by Mcconnel for the entirety of his term.
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Apr 9, 2020 18:56
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Manager Hoyden posted:No matter how the tiny number of goons here will end up voting, I think we can all agree that it is a terrible failure of... something... that our leftmost choice for president is pretty far to the right of Nixon and hovers just around Reagan all issues considered (more progressive on some, more regressive on others). If there's any bright spot in this it's that every leftist is finally fully in agreement that everything is broken beyond repair.
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Apr 9, 2020 18:57
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Arist posted:The scenario you're describing is so existentially loving bleak that I can't imagine it doing anything other than cementing how little agency any of us have and depressing the poo poo out of everyone. Yes we live in the Bad Timeline, or more specifically, the Bad Country. It's built on lies and dysfunctional government and the only reason we are as powerful as we are is because we were an ocean away from most of the rest of the planet on either side, and thus physically insulated from much of the world's destabilizing events.
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Apr 9, 2020 18:58
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Arist posted:The scenario you're describing is so existentially loving bleak that I can't imagine it doing anything other than cementing how little agency any of us have and depressing the poo poo out of everyone. It's the exact scenario we are in, I can't control people's emotional response to reality. You can either do something or not. As much as I want to be able to wish things to be different that's just not reality.
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Apr 9, 2020 18:58
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Arist posted:The scenario you're describing is so existentially loving bleak that I can't imagine it doing anything other than cementing how little agency any of us have and depressing the poo poo out of everyone. Mmm yes it is a big shocking revelation that politics and also a poo poo ton of other things in 2020 is bleak as gently caress. Are you also aware that up to several million Americans may die and there is likely little we as individuals can do about it if the government and states and companies decided "gently caress it go to work or starve"?.
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Apr 9, 2020 18:58
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I'm not saying it's wrong or even a surprise. I'm saying you're holding people hostage.
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Apr 9, 2020 18:59
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marshmonkey posted:I'll take an 11 point lead in 65+ over the youth vote because they actually go to the polls. For whatever its worth Biden is up 30+ with the 18-34 group according the other poll that came out today https://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/04/09/rel4c.-.2020.pdf
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Apr 9, 2020 18:59
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VH4Ever posted:You're responding to the point he made in the tweet now? That was a response to the tweet, if that's what you're asking.
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Apr 9, 2020 18:59
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Arist posted:
Your individual vote doesn't affect the final outcome in any election (besides that one state Delegate race in Virginia)
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Apr 9, 2020 19:00
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Arist posted:I'm not saying it's wrong or even a surprise. I'm saying you're holding people hostage. Listen man, my people were brought here on a loving boat and forced to build the Country on their backs. The only thing the US does is hold hostages. I'm dealing with the parameters of a hostile environment i've had to try to learn how to tame.
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Apr 9, 2020 19:00
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Yuzenn posted:You have done SO MUCH mental gymnastics to avoid realizing that there are two levers to pull in the next election, D or R. If everyone in the D coalition pulls the D lever, we win. If you pull R, the R will win. Ok. I know. But can you respond to what I was asking? I was literally saying "always having our vote as a guarantee reinforces DNC not giving a poo poo about our votes." I don't want to give a short response because I'm not trying to have a slapfight with you. I can tell you put a lot of thought into what you wrote, and wrote it well, and I want to recognize that. I just have to say you didn't respond to what my post was. As far as mental gymnastics about there only being two choices. You're doing the gymnastics here because one option is "not pull lever." You had to purposefully ignore that option, and that was what my post was about in addition to "if they always count on us pulling the lever what power do we have to stop them from putting out bad candidates?"
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Apr 9, 2020 19:00
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Xombie posted:That was a response to the tweet, if that's what you're asking. Xombie posted:Talking about the effect that the not-voters will have in the GE? Because another poster brought it up with that tweet. Less confusing if you quote them, not me then. I didn't discuss any of that. Just glad I moved from one completely locked in state to another so I don't have a dog in this "which rapist do I vote for?" discussion. Y'all have fun with all that. #VerminSupreme2020
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Apr 9, 2020 19:01
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PeterCat posted:As far as the judges go, I am sure that Biden will be able to get liberal judges confirmed by the senate and will not be stymied by Mcconnel for the entirety of his term. With current polling, a Biden win means the Dems take the Senate. They're leading in AZ, CO, ME, and will likely get tipped in NC. That's 50+VP, assuming AL is lost.
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Apr 9, 2020 19:01
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Very excited to find out who the new Joe Lieberman will be. My money is on Joe Manchin. Don't trust Joes.
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Apr 9, 2020 19:03
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Yuzenn posted:You have done SO MUCH mental gymnastics to avoid realizing that there are two levers to pull in the next election, D or R. If everyone in the D coalition pulls the D lever, we win. If you pull R, the R will win. You don't seem to get it, the DNC already damned us all to a doomsday scenario by rigging the primary to force a senile rapist as the candidate. The current US healthcare system is broken, and impoverishes or kills many thousands of people every year. Joe Biden sees nothing wrong with the system as it is, and said he would veto any attempt to change it. I will never vote for Joe Biden.
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Apr 9, 2020 19:03
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How are u posted:I don't care about your vote, I care about the votes of people in swing and competitive states. You are telling those people to vote for Trump. this was the most obnoxious goddamn strawman in the Protest Voting thread and it still is here voting for Trump is voting Trump. explicitly disavowing his rhetoric and not voting because you want literally the opposite of what the voting options are is the most not voting for Trump you possibly be you stupid motherfucker also, this thread is loving unreadable garbage and whoever is modding or pretending to mod needs to give Blue No Matter Who chat an outlet or a rule or literally anything
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