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Leperflesh posted:Oh OK, the supreme court didn't legalize gay marriage in direct opposition to the majority of states and the republicans, less than ten years ago. That just didn't happen. I didn't say the court was in opposition to the political establishment, I said it was in opposition to overall political will. Americans have been consistently less right-wing than their political leaders for decades.
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Apr 10, 2020 21:08
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The overwhelming amount of people who won't vote for Biden are poor, non-white, and not in CA, and more specifically not on this website so I'm not sure what litigating his candidacy in this forum is going to accomplish. If any Biden defenders are actually truly interested in having an effect on the outcome and not moralizing I would genuinely encourage you knock some doors, get out there in those swing states and canvas for a rapist who doesn't know what day it is and isn't going to help those aforementioned people in any way. Tell 'em he's not Trump. Good luck.
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Apr 10, 2020 21:09
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:a rapist who doesn't know what day it is and isn't going to help those aforementioned people in any way. Tell 'em he's not Trump. Feeling inspired rn.
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Apr 10, 2020 21:12
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seeing lots of questions already answered by my gang tag
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Apr 10, 2020 21:14
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Shear Modulus posted:the scotus is lost. it was lost for a generation when obama let mcconnell steal the seat from merrick garland. actually it was lost when joe biden reached across the aisle to put a fellow woman-smeller on it Leperflesh posted:of course biden can win in november, jesus christ. he's far less hated than hillary clinton. for gently caress's sake. he is polling worse against trump than she did, so i wish him a lot of luck
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Apr 10, 2020 21:17
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:The overwhelming amount of people who won't vote for Biden are poor, non-white, and not in CA, and more specifically not on this website so I'm not sure what litigating his candidacy in this forum is going to accomplish. If any Biden defenders are actually truly interested in having an effect on the outcome and not moralizing I would genuinely encourage you knock some doors, get out there in those swing states and canvas for a rapist who doesn't know what day it is and isn't going to help those aforementioned people in any way. Tell 'em he's not Trump. Good luck. This is an excellent description of how dumb liberal whining about people voting for Bernie but not Biden is. People who personally identify with the Bernie campaign have no control over the people who would vote for Bernie but not Biden, because most of them are people who wouldn't have voted at all, or wouldn't have voted for a Democrat at all. That was the whole thing about Bernie's appeal – he was interesting to people who are otherwise definitively disinterested in politics or the Democratic party. Some hardcore Bernie stan on Twitter has no way of influencing those people even if they wanted to.
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Apr 10, 2020 21:19
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I mean, Biden can win. Sure. I honestly believe that too - America is failing, and American politics are reactionary and volatile. We don't know what the country looks like on the other side of this pandemic. If I had to bet? All his numbers - head to head polling, enthusiasm, small dollar donations - are worse than Hillary's at this same point, though, and instead of a bloodless corrupt sociopath he's a racist, rapist, youth-hating old codger who is clearly mentally failing and constantly spews a stream of horrible soundbites that can be used to turf him by the mainstream media (who are accountable to their rich owners that want Trump to win, btw). The idea that he's got a better chance than Clinton? Not sure about that. Really want to see his VP pick. Edit: and if the Dem party is actually dumb enough to turf Biden and do the old switcharoo to a new candidate mid-campaign I am nearly certain that Trump wins. Edit 2: Joementum. https://mobile.twitter.com/ryangrim/status/1248686918730240000 Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Apr 10, 2020 |
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Apr 10, 2020 21:22
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Can’t believe someone tried to argue that there is no meaningful difference between 5-4 and 6-3 lol. Guess I forgot SC justices were immortal
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Apr 10, 2020 21:51
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illcendiary posted:Can’t believe someone tried to argue that there is no meaningful difference between 5-4 and 6-3 lol. Guess I forgot SC justices were immortal I agree it's a poor argument, so let's try another one: corporate "bipartisan" Dems are unlikely to ever appoint another Supreme Court Justice again, they will simply allow themselves to be blocked and then cry about it. And even if they grew a spine you aren't going to get a left one from Joe Biden, the guy who personally got Clarence Thomas on the bench and voted to confirm Antonin Scalia. The best you'll get is some socially liberal, fiscally conservative milquetoast shithead who takes his cues from the conservative Justices and is friends with the right people. This is what people mean when they say that the Court is lost. I don't think it's effective to use it as a cudgel to enforce Presidential voting anymore. Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Apr 10, 2020 |
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Apr 10, 2020 21:55
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Leperflesh posted:Oh OK, the supreme court didn't legalize gay marriage in direct opposition to the majority of states and the republicans, less than ten years ago. That just didn't happen. 
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Apr 10, 2020 21:57
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illcendiary posted:Can’t believe someone tried to argue that there is no meaningful difference between 5-4 and 6-3 lol. Guess I forgot SC justices were immortal The argument would be that the effect on people is the same, that a majority decision outlawing abortion or whatever has the same impact regardless of the exact number of votes behind it. Of course this ignores that just having four liberal justices instead of three minimizes harm. If the conservatives are trying to hold together a 5-4 majority in their favor, they have to be more measured. But if their baseline is 6-3 then they can go as far as five of the six conservatives are willing, which is potentially much more damaging.
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Apr 10, 2020 21:58
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The left has been totally defeated though. You can't blame Leperflesh for recognizing that and trying to get a few crumbs instead of nothing. It's pathetic but it's all we've got in the short term.
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Apr 10, 2020 21:59
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illcendiary posted:Can’t believe someone tried to argue that there is no meaningful difference between 5-4 and 6-3 lol. Guess I forgot SC justices were immortal There’s no meaningful difference between 5-4 and 6-3 lol
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Apr 10, 2020 22:02
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:The left has been totally defeated though. You can't blame Leperflesh for recognizing that and trying to get a few crumbs instead of nothing. It's pathetic but it's all we've got.
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Apr 10, 2020 22:07
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Centrist Committee posted:There’s no meaningful difference between 5-4 and 6-3 lol drat, that’s a very good point sir,, thank’s 🤔
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Apr 10, 2020 22:09
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krysmopompas posted:All you’ve got. Millions have nothing and millions more are getting less, and accepting the crumbs enables the decline. I also hold the belief that by legitimizing these people with victories - even mostly symbolic ones - you're slitting your throat long-term. However, in the short term we're so badly off that I am sorely tempted to get some people some relief. The Dem party in its current form is so rotten and ineffective that i'm not sure it's possible to legitimize them. But then again, Obama....
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Apr 10, 2020 22:14
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Zachack posted:If you think Chavez was a socialist then I don't know what to tell you. Socialism isn't "guy at the top gives handouts to poor while enriching himself and cronies and dismantling everything". You can easily make posters that support socialism or reject the USA's involvement in Venezuela without promoting shitheads, just like you can make a website of great horror directors and not put Polanski's face up there. please, you absolutely must tell us where you learned what you think you know about chavez this is incredible lol
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Apr 10, 2020 22:17
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Chavez's reliance on direct wealth transfer through oil revenues funded by the Chinese commodity boom was a long-term strategic error, and should be understood in that context. On the other hand, he owned like hell. The duality of man~~~
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Apr 10, 2020 22:22
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the strategic error on chavez's part was trying to build a public economy while allowing the private one to continue relatively unabated. liberals were never going to allow anything that benefited poor people while impacting their profits, so of course they hoarded and sandbagged
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Apr 10, 2020 22:25
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:The left has been totally defeated though. You can't blame Leperflesh for recognizing that and trying to get a few crumbs instead of nothing. It's pathetic but it's all we've got in the short term. At the executive level yes. On the state and local level, no. We can still elect leftist Senators and House representatives, and we should be focusing on that. But in order to do that you have to convince people to go to the polls instead of staying home, and telling them to vote for Joe loving Biden ain't gonna do that. There's no electoral future in trying to convince people his poo poo smells like roses, and the alt-right are trying to stop you from smearing your nose in it. Own up to how lovely he is and tell people to vote third-party for President.
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Apr 10, 2020 22:36
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Cup Runneth Over posted:Own up to how lovely he is Anyone that cant do this is worse than a maga person. They at least know what theyre looking at. A Biden supporter is as worthy of scorn as a qanon person, and believes as many ridiculously transparent lies.
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Apr 10, 2020 23:16
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It's amazing how quickly things get normalized and discounted. Do you not remember Prop 8 in California?
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Apr 10, 2020 23:28
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There will never again be a supreme court justice appointed by a democratic president with a republican senate, 'but the scotus' is an irrelevant argument.
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Apr 10, 2020 23:29
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FRINGE posted:A Biden supporter is as worthy of scorn as a qanon person, and believes as many ridiculously transparent lies. The majority of Dem primary voters trust the Dem establishment but also like Bernie just fine. We have the polling. They were told by the media (that they trust) and the Establishment (that they trust) and most of the other candidates (that they also liked) that Biden Was The Guy, and then they pulled the lever for Biden. That's it. I would encourage everyone to canvas at some point, because it really drives home how little the average person knows. The average "well-informed" primary voter knows probably 10% about politics of what the average person in this thread knows. Allowing Obama and the Dem Establishment to keep their credibility has cost us a lot.
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Apr 10, 2020 23:31
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Ugh why are we having generalchat discussion here, it doesn't matter. California is going blue. The electoral delegates are already guaranteed. I'm not voting Biden, and no one here is obliged to either. BUT do vote downballot, and do vote for props. That's still relevant and important. If you show up to vote for any reason do so for that.
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Apr 10, 2020 23:31
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FilthyImp posted:Also make him have the body of Cavill during that one shirtless scene in Man of Steel 
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Apr 10, 2020 23:32
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DeadlyMuffin posted:It's amazing how quickly things get normalized and discounted. It's true, the Supreme Court legalized gay marriage in all fifty states (four years after a majority of the American population supported it, unlike interracial marriage, which was legalized in the US long before a majority supported it). Unfortunately, I have never and will never live in a state in which gay marriage was not already legalized before the Supreme Court ruled on Obergefell v. Hodges. Leperflesh is mistaken that it was in direct opposition to a majority of states. 37 states fully legalized gay marriage before that decision. It is important to me that the federal government must recognize that marriage, which is only possible today because the Supreme Court struck down the DOMA, but that Supreme Court is gone. It is not coming back for decades. It was lost when Obama decided decorum was more important than governance, and that loss was assisted by Joe Biden himself "reaching across the aisle." It is, indeed, a crumb of social justice. And Proposition 8 was state politics, which you should absolutely be involved in. Voting against Prop 8 does not require you to vote for Joe Biden, nor should you. It was also struck down by the lower courts for being unconstitutional.
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Apr 10, 2020 23:40
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DeadlyMuffin posted:It's amazing how quickly things get normalized and discounted.
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Apr 10, 2020 23:43
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WOWEE ZOWEE posted:Ugh why are we having generalchat discussion here, it doesn't matter. California is going blue. The electoral delegates are already guaranteed. I'm not voting Biden, and no one here is obliged to either. There is actually a major issue with ballot propositions that a lot of them wont end up with enough signatures to appear on the ballot because Coronavirus hit right as all of those campaigns would have normally been getting into the main time for getting signatures. A big one that might not make the ballot is the extension of CIRM which has funded and hopefully will be able to continue to fund a lot of important science and research
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Apr 10, 2020 23:44
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Joe Biden is a rapist
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Apr 10, 2020 23:46
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Cup Runneth Over posted:It's true, the Supreme Court legalized gay marriage in all fifty states (four years after a majority of the American population supported it, unlike interracial marriage, which was legalized in the US long before a majority supported it). If you live in California then gay marriage was legalized when the Supreme Court ruled on Hollingsworth v. Perry. It's still a Supreme Court decision, just a different and slightly earlier one. A conservative Supreme Court could absolutely have overturned the 9th circuit. Cup Runneth Over posted:It is, indeed, a crumb of social justice. I strongly disagree. It made a huge difference in my own life, and in the lives of many LGBT folks I know. You're entitled to your opinion, of course. You're just wrong :-) Cup Runneth Over posted:And Proposition 8 was state politics, which you should absolutely be involved in. Voting against Prop 8 does not require you to vote for Joe Biden, nor should you. If only there were a thread to discuss state politics, and a thread to discuss national politics.
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Apr 10, 2020 23:55
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krysmopompas posted:I wasn’t here for prop 8, but I’m pretty sure I remember it as bourgeois electoral virtue signaling that did nothing but give one party cover to continue exploiting immigrants, the working class and an expansion of the carceral state. In what way was the vote to make same sex marriage illegal in California bourgeois electoral virtue signaling? You've got to be trolling.
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Apr 10, 2020 23:57
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DeadlyMuffin posted:I strongly disagree. It made a huge difference in my own life, and in the lives of many LGBT folks I know. You're entitled to your opinion, of course. You're just wrong :-) What is the threshold of misery that forces you to reject a personal gain?
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Apr 11, 2020 00:11
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krysmopompas posted:People dying from covid in san quentin because cop kamala threw them in there for doing sex work to pay for insulin, food or rent is what you traded for that. No, don't do that. Do not frame this horse-trading. That is not what happened at all, and you know it.
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Apr 11, 2020 00:13
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krysmopompas posted:People dying from covid in san quentin because cop kamala threw them in there for doing sex work to pay for insulin, food or rent is what you traded for that. What exactly was the alternative? This seems like a false dichotomy.
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Apr 11, 2020 00:15
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krysmopompas posted:People dying from covid in san quentin because cop kamala threw them in there for doing sex work to pay for insulin, food or rent is what you traded for that. what
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Apr 11, 2020 00:16
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:No, don't do that. Do not frame this horse-trading. That is not what happened at all, and you know it. krysmopompas fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Apr 11, 2020 |
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Apr 11, 2020 00:17
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krysmopompas posted:Then what the gently caress happened? We’re talking about voting for the mother loving author of the god damned crime bill as a ‘lesser evil’ here, and as long as we continue to do that, they will continue to enthusiastically support the exact same policies as the far right, save for the crumbs. "We" aren't doing that and if your anger at somebody advocating for that is causing you to veer toward suggesting that the gays sold out the poor for marriage you're getting too heated about it. You're totally right to be angry but don't be postin' until you're not red hot about it.
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Apr 11, 2020 00:21
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DeadlyMuffin posted:I strongly disagree. It made a huge difference in my own life, and in the lives of many LGBT folks I know. Wow, congrats! I'm also LGBT folks you know. I am currently gay married! Don't pretend I don't have a stake in the discussion. DeadlyMuffin posted:If you live in California then gay marriage was legalized when the Supreme Court ruled on Hollingsworth v. Perry. Wikipedia posted:The majority opinion was authored by Chief Justice Roberts and was joined by Justices Scalia, Ginsburg, Breyer, and Kagan. Justices Kennedy, Thomas, Alito, and Sotomayor dissented. Wasn't Sotomayor an Obama justice? Cup Runneth Over fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Apr 11, 2020 |
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Apr 11, 2020 00:31
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