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I think my starter might actually work! Rubber band is where it was after feeding and this photo was like 3 hours later. I thought my starter was hosed. I kinda gave up/forgot to feed it for 2 days straight and it developed a brownish layer on top so yesterday I cleared that out, reserved 75g and fed it 100g/100g of flour and water and here we are. This is the most active I've seen it over the past two weeks. Am I going to poison myself by making a batch with this? Do I just need to make sure this doubles for another day or so and it's good to go? I haven't tried the float test yet.
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Apr 9, 2020 19:20
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Serendipitaet posted:instant yeast (...) few years back.  You are aware that yeast has a limited lifespan? Doh004 posted:I kinda gave up/forgot to feed it for 2 days straight Don't worry, starter can last for waaaay longer than that. You can literally dry it out for long term storage and then rehydrate + feed it weeks down the road. After a while without feeding, the bacteria in the starter tend to take over and start producing more ethanol, so likely the brown layer you saw was your culture starting to turn into hooch. It'll likely work fine for baking, though if you've only fed it once after starving it so recently, it might be hoochdough more than sourdough. Go through 2-3 feeding cycles after reviving your starter (i.e.: from fridge) to get a more balanced flavour.
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Apr 9, 2020 19:27
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Jan posted:Don't worry, starter can last for waaaay longer than that. You can literally dry it out for long term storage and then rehydrate + feed it weeks down the road. Oooh okay that's good to know. Does that mean I can stop feeding it daily on the counter and move it to the fridge?
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Apr 9, 2020 19:33
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Jan posted:
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Apr 9, 2020 19:34
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i like nice words
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I did some experimentation. I made pan au lait, then did danish style filling (jam+cream cheese), then put my giant doughcocks into the freezer for a bit to firm up the filling.  I then shaped like babka and baked. Result: Left is hot chili and right is blackberry with oatmeal crisp topping:  Notes and thoughts: Flavor wise, it was a nice brioche/challa/pan au lait dough. Rich, but not cloying. - Would use again I baked them a little long, but hey, it's a nice deep color, but not overdone. GF says the blackberry loaf tastes just like Enteman's. I haven't gotten deep enough into the chili loaf to really comment on the filling flavor. The shaping was a mess, the CC and jam weren't really able to set like the babka filling does, so it just got everywhere and I couldn't twist it as tightly/nicely as a babka. Not sure it's worth it, might try some french toast later.
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Apr 9, 2020 20:12
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Quick question about getting an even brown on your loaf... I've been making the "mostly no-knead" white bread in Bread Illustrated. It's a good recipe, I enjoy the addition of vinegar and lager to make up for some of the flavor deficiencies of no-knead. Anyways it's cooked in a dutch oven, which works well, but I'm always worried that I'm browning the bottom too much, so I take it out before the top is finished. I usually finish it the broiler, but it doesn't produce the same luxurious browning and texture as it would if the top naturally browned. My question: should I keep the boule in the dutch oven until the top is browned, no matter what? Or maybe I should reduce the temp a bit to encourage a more even browning? I have no idea why the top is having so much trouble, I use a very nice dutch oven so it's not like this is being caused by a shoddy dutch oven or something like that.
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Apr 9, 2020 20:14
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I keep yeast in a baggie in the fridge door and it lasts for years, generally. It’s not like you won’t notice if your yeast stops working. Taima posted:Quick question about getting an even brown on your loaf... If you like the acidity of vinegar, start making a big batch of dough and keep it in your fridge, pulling off hunks to bake, and it’ll naturally sour over time. Or use a starter and make the rest of the recipe as is. Also, anything you do to extend the fermentation will help develop flavour. As for the browning, what temp are you baking it at? Where in the oven? At what point in the bake do you take off the dutch oven lid? Generally you only need to keep the lid on to get your spring and once the outside has started to firm up you can take it off to expose it to drier heat for browning.
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Apr 9, 2020 20:33
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Jan posted:
keep in mind that even if 99% of the yeast dies, you should still be able to revive it by making a sponge
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Apr 9, 2020 21:55
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mediaphage posted:As for the browning, what temp are you baking it at? Where in the oven? At what point in the bake do you take off the dutch oven lid? Generally you only need to keep the lid on to get your spring and once the outside has started to firm up you can take it off to expose it to drier heat for browning. I'm currently doing 430 degrees for about 40-45 minutes, with the lid on for that entire time. Then I take off the lid to check the top, at which point I use the broiler as needed to finish the loaf. For spacing I use the center rack. But I just know nothing about making bread, I literally just started 2 days ago. So you're saying take the lid off partway through, eh?
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Apr 9, 2020 22:15
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Taima posted:I'm currently doing 430 degrees for about 40-45 minutes, with the lid on for that entire time. Then I take off the lid to check the top, at which point I use the broiler as needed to finish the loaf. Honestly that seems fine. Are you certain it’s getting too brown on the bottom, or are you just worried about it? Taking the lid off at about 30 minutes in and just letting it bake until it’s brown is pretty standard, imo, not bothering with the broiler. If it’s getting too done for you, turn the temp down to 400°F after you shut the door when adding the dough. Lots of ovens are prone to less than accurate temps, so it’s also possible that it gets a little hotter than you might think. Edit: if you have an instant-read thermometer and it's a basic white dough, cook it til it gets to be around 205, 207F in the middle and you'll know it's done, regardless of colour. mediaphage fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Apr 9, 2020 |
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Apr 9, 2020 22:27
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Taima posted:I'm currently doing 430 degrees for about 40-45 minutes, with the lid on for that entire time. Then I take off the lid to check the top, at which point I use the broiler as needed to finish the loaf. I bake in a cloche for about 25-30 minutes at 230c then uncovered fir another 20-25 at around 200C. I get good colour. I think you’re covering it for too long.
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Apr 9, 2020 22:48
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mediaphage posted:Honestly that seems fine. Are you certain it’s getting too brown on the bottom, or are you just worried about it? This is my exact concern! I feel like there's a good chance that I'm overthinking it and it's fine. Maybe I should just try it leaving it in, and if it burns the bottom, so be it. therattle posted:I bake in a cloche for about 25-30 minutes at 230c then uncovered fir another 20-25 at around 200C. I get good colour. I think you’re covering it for too long. Thanks I will try this as well, flour is cheap! Thanks for the help yall 
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Apr 9, 2020 23:27
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Taima posted:This is my exact concern! I feel like there's a good chance that I'm overthinking it and it's fine. Maybe I should just try it leaving it in, and if it burns the bottom, so be it. Good! I take the cloche top off and remove it from the base and cake on the oven rack.
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Apr 9, 2020 23:29
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Ok I tried again today and opened the dutch oven partway through, and reduced heat to 420 degrees. Does this seem reasonable or should I go darker?
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Apr 10, 2020 21:27
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Taima posted:Ok I tried again today and opened the dutch oven partway through, and reduced heat to 420 degrees. Does this seem reasonable or should I go darker? It’s your bread. What do you think? (I think it looks great. Much better colour).
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Apr 10, 2020 22:17
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therattle posted:It’s your bread. What do you think? Agree with this. Here’s the thing: are you happy with it? Does it taste good? Then it’s perfect.
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Apr 11, 2020 00:49
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I'm trying to improve my baguette technique (and flavor) from the John Kirkwood directions: https://profoodhomemade.com/beautiful-french-bagettes/ Basically: 75% hydration knead using a few "slap and folds" 4 times every 45 minutes. At the beginning he touts this whole method helps it develop its "distinct flavor" but I can't really see how that goes. I'm thinking I'd be better off hydrating a fraction of the dough a day before--possibly with a faint touch of yeast--and let it party a bit. Insert method of choice here. No, really. Is there a preference? The other thing is the result comes out with the gluten surprisingly being developed for how little kneading I have to do, but it hasn't hit that taffy-like texture I like to see when I'm doing other types of dough. Is this a thing with baguettes? Would I do better beating it up some more? I can just let the big mixer beat the piss out of it for awhile no-problem. I was thinking of just doing one knead cycle but I wonder if the texture is actually going to suffer. A final technicality: I was surprised that I couldn't slice my baguettes again with a safety razor blade. It's the second time I tried. The first time was with a different wheat and I had sprayed the form loaves first. I tried it with a more normal bread flour without spraying. I was surprised instead to find one of my knives doing the job.
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Apr 11, 2020 04:56
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mediaphage posted:Agree with this. Here’s the thing: are you happy with it? Does it taste good? Then it’s perfect. therattle posted:It's your bread. What do you think? Hey I just appreciate the advice of skilled artisans. In my mind, it's almost meaningless if I personally like the bread. I'm not in this to make ok bread that I like, I'm trying to make really, really good bread. That will take time and the advice of experts, as with any new hobby. Thanks again and I appreciate the commentary. As I move into more complex bread making (I recently purchased Flour Water Salt Yeast which is somewhat daunting but very thorough) I will surely have more questions and solicit more opinions.
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Apr 11, 2020 05:42
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mediaphage posted:Here’s the thing: are you happy with it? Does it taste good? Then it’s perfect. This is how I justify spending 16 bucks at Taco Bell.
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Apr 11, 2020 06:02
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Very much improved this round  
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Apr 11, 2020 06:25
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Taima posted:Hey I just appreciate the advice of skilled artisans. In my mind, it's almost meaningless if I personally like the bread. I'm not in this to make ok bread that I like, I'm trying to make really, really good bread. That will take time and the advice of experts, as with any new hobby. I was trying to figure out how to retort constructively but you managed to say it better. Some things then: 1. Yes, that browning looks like something somebody would pay for. 2. Anything anybody says about the outside has to be compared to how it looked and tasted when you busted it open. I've had some great crusts that covered a Superfund site. 3. It looks like you could have scored it a little bit better since I'm seeing a scraggly bit on the right side that makes it look like it kind of burst apart. Some people love those little crusty love handles but I'm guessing you didn't mean to cause it. 4. If you're trying to make it more brown, consider switching to a dough that is more basic/alkaline. I thought you wrote that you were doing something acidic and that's going to make it tougher to make it more brown. That'll remove one thing from the problem you're worried about right now. 5. If you want specific feedback then you'll want to target a specific style of bread and talk among its enthusiasts. I'm saying this as somebody that doesn't tend to make artisan loaves much so I'm not God's gift to them or anything but I don't think I said anything out of my wheelhouse.
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Apr 11, 2020 07:10
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Taima posted:Hey I just appreciate the advice of skilled artisans. In my mind, it's almost meaningless if I personally like the bread. I'm not in this to make ok bread that I like, I'm trying to make really, really good bread. That will take time and the advice of experts, as with any new hobby. Ok, I guess. I think whether something I make tastes good retains primacy, as the point of food is to eat it. Rolo posted:This is how I justify spending 16 bucks at Taco Bell. I can’t tell how you mean this, but I also don’t see the problem with that (aside from $16 is a lot of Taco Bell for one person). Too much of food stuff on the internet deals with fake tradition and fake authenticity, and people are often so much more worried about whether something is “right” or whether it looks correct than whether it’s simply good to eat. I’m much more concerned with the latter. Otherwise the ancient ciabatta (developed in the 80s) would never have existed, for example. Rocko Bonaparte posted:I'm trying to improve my baguette technique (and flavor) from the John Kirkwood directions: Imo you always get better flavour in white doughs the longer you ferment them, so by all means do some kind of biga/poolish/pâte fermentée. The best baguettes I’ve ever made, and they’re usually better than any I can buy without stopping at a solid bakery, are from Peter Reinhart’s The Bread Baker’s Apprentice. This was the book that really started me (and, I think, a lot of people) on multi-day bread doughs. Anyway check out his pain à l’ancienne, where he has you do at least an overnight ferment in the fridge. Rocko Bonaparte posted:
People often complain about homemade breads being paler than storebought. I don’t think the answer is necessarily to make different bread - for one, that would rule out ever doing any sourdoughs. Good, moist oven environments, preventing overfermentation (thick crust in combination with being pale can signify this), adding a smidge of honey or molasses to your dough, or some diastatic malt powder, can all help get really nice crusts.
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Apr 11, 2020 09:08
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That reminds me: I sometimes make an easy machine-kneaded dense seeded wholemeal in a loaf tin (no bother with shaping so I can go with quite high hydration) and adding a tablespoon of treacle (molasses) works really well for adding some depth.
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Apr 11, 2020 09:28
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50% white flour 50% red lentil flour sourdough it smelled like caramel when cooking, but there's no appreciable taste of it or lentils. It could have used more salt but is otherwise a nice sandwich loaf   The shape would have come out better if I hadn't forgotten to do ~half of the steps Piss Meridian fucked around with this message at 10:01 on Apr 11, 2020 |
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Apr 11, 2020 09:56
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Piss Meridian posted:50% white flour 50% red lentil flour sourdough The colour of the crust is great. Inside is curious. Did you cut it hot?
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Apr 11, 2020 12:45
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mediaphage posted:The colour of the crust is great. Inside is curious. Yes, I probably should have waited longer
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Apr 11, 2020 12:56
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Piss Meridian posted:Yes, I probably should have waited longer Ah, yeah, it's always hard to tell from pictures whether bread is underdone or just cut hot and steam gels up the dough at the interface.
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Apr 11, 2020 13:50
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Welp. Starter got moldy after a week in the fridge.
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Apr 11, 2020 14:23
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I'm in progress on a new starter here. Started it on whole rye flour, feeding on unbleached now. This is day three, going to feeding on 12's now and we'll see how it's feeling about being bread in a week.
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Apr 11, 2020 14:43
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Dangerllama posted:Welp. Starter got moldy after a week in the fridge. You can cheat a bit and add some microbes with a little commercial yeast and/or some yogurt juice or similar source of lactobacilli. I am surprised it mouldered so quickly, though. How wet was it, out of curiosity?
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Apr 11, 2020 16:03
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100% hydration per Forkish. I’m just starting over with a smaller container (1 quart instead of 2) and obeying the process a little more strictly. My ww expired in Jan, but I can’t imagine it’s too old yet.
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Apr 11, 2020 16:09
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I finally made a sourdough!   Whole wheat starter, 50% AP flour 25% whole wheat 25% rye. Very tasty! My oven was way too hot but I was following the instructions (I try not to change things the first time I try things). They had me do 500 with lid on the dutch oven for 20 minutes, 475 without for 25 minutes. We had to pull it at 25 mins as it was starting to smoke. My second loaf from the batch is in there now at 450 lid on and off which I'm more used to. Hoping it'll be better. This is very rewarding 
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Apr 11, 2020 18:11
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Doh004 posted:I finally made a sourdough! That looks lovely. I think the instructions that call for 500 are a bit high tbh, it’s always too hot for me regardless of the oven
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Apr 11, 2020 18:18
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Throw me your bread knife recs. Suffering over here with something I inherited, but is way too small and fidly for the job of cutting sourdough boules. I'm happy with my Victorinox chef's knife I've had almost 10 years. The bread knife any good? https://www.amazon.com/Victorinox-S...s%2C203&sr=8-18
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Apr 11, 2020 18:21
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We got this one recently and it’s pretty good: Mercer Culinary M23210 Millennia Wide Wavy Edge Bread Knife, 10-Inch, Black https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000PS1HS6/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_C3FKEb5DXGSH2
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Apr 11, 2020 18:27
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Doh004 posted:My oven was way too hot but I was following the instructions (I try not to change things the first time I try things). They had me do 500 with lid on the dutch oven for 20 minutes, 475 without for 25 minutes. We had to pull it at 25 mins as it was starting to smoke. My second loaf from the batch is in there now at 450 lid on and off which I'm more used to. Hoping it'll be better.
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Apr 11, 2020 18:56
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No pictures, but I finally found a sourdough-discard recipe that came out perfect. Epicurious's Sourdough Biscuits. Reminds me of my childhood.
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Apr 11, 2020 18:58
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Kenshin posted:The FWSY breads are 475F, 30 minutes lid on/10-20 off (depending on how brown you like it) so experiment a bit with timings as well And ovens can be very off in their temps. 500 could be 550 or 450.
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Apr 11, 2020 19:15
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therattle posted:And ovens can be very off in their temps. 500 could be 550 or 450. Yeah, I highly recommend buying an oven thermometer to find out how off your oven is
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Apr 11, 2020 19:25
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Arsenic Lupin posted:No pictures, but I finally found a sourdough-discard recipe that came out perfect. Epicurious's Sourdough Biscuits. Reminds me of my childhood. This sounds good as hell. I always hate the "all right discard three cups of your starter" instructions . Might try this on next refeed.
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Apr 11, 2020 20:48
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