|
Cleretic posted:I never really watched Buffy and Angel, but you can definitely see parts of its DNA in different areas of the Arrow family of shows as far as structure goes, but they don't really 'feel' like Buffy beyond that, excepting some of Arrow. Riverdale and Sabrina, though, they're the REALLY clear inheritors of the Buffy Vibe. The Arrowverse stuff kind-of owns though, honestly. That stuff is going to age weirdly well. As someone else put it, it's the "community theater" version of DC Comics and it wears all of its flaws very proudly on its face. It's self-aware without being self-conscious, and that gives it a long shelf life.
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2020 15:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 20:40 |
|
|
I like in the first Flash/Supergirl crossover episode where Kat meets Barry and seeing him standing there with her staff she's just like "Oh my god these generically handsome young faces, it's like looking at the cast of a CW show... get out of my office..."
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2020 15:36
|
|
|
mind the walrus posted:Well there's two halves to Buffy/Angel-- the superhero half and the "supernatural stuff as metaphors for teenage/young adult life" half. Both got paid equal importance-- Buffy leaned harder on the metaphor and Angel leaned harder on superhero--but that's why shows as seemingly different as Riverdale and Supergirl can both point to Buffy/Angel as a direct ancestor. I was thinking about this a bit while I couldn't sleep last night and it occurred to me that Veronica Mars (at least the initial 3 seasons, I haven't seen any of the more recent stuff) was broadly an inverse of the Buffy formula; it's still teen superhero drama but it's teenage/young adult life as a metaphor for things like class struggle. quote:The Arrowverse stuff kind-of owns though, honestly. That stuff is going to age weirdly well. As someone else put it, it's the "community theater" version of DC Comics and it wears all of its flaws very proudly on its face. It's self-aware without being self-conscious, and that gives it a long shelf life. I don't think I've ever enjoyed a mass media superhero adaptation as much as most of the Arrowverse stuff, particularly Legends of Tomorrow.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2020 15:51
|
|
|
I was startled by how much I love The Flash and LoT having kind of bounced off Arrow. I might go back and give it a whirl.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2020 18:00
|
|
|
mind the walrus posted:Well there's two halves to Buffy/Angel-- the superhero half and the "supernatural stuff as metaphors for teenage/young adult life" half. Both got paid equal importance-- Buffy leaned harder on the metaphor and Angel leaned harder on superhero--but that's why shows as seemingly different as Riverdale and Supergirl can both point to Buffy/Angel as a direct ancestor. I've only watched Arrow, but I don't think that show was hurt by Stephen Amell taking the physical conditioning so seriously. I don't know if he learned to shoot a bow, but he definitely insisted on being able to do Oliver's training routines without faking. He did the American Ninja Warrior assault course a few years back for charity, and if they'd put that into Arrow as Oliver Queen doing a charity event, goons would probably have started complaining about him giving away his secret identity.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2020 18:27
|
|
|
When Flash first met Supergirl he used his powers to get her ice cream and she acted like it was the greatest thing to ever happen to her and, honestly, yeah ice cream is pretty good. But Supergirl also has super speed. She could go get ice cream whenever she wants. Push El Burrito has a new favorite as of 20:19 on Apr 13, 2020 |
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2020 19:37
|
|
|
Jedit posted:I've only watched Arrow, but I don't think that show was hurt by Stephen Amell taking the physical conditioning so seriously. I don't know if he learned to shoot a bow, but he definitely insisted on being able to do Oliver's training routines without faking. He did the American Ninja Warrior assault course a few years back for charity, and if they'd put that into Arrow as Oliver Queen doing a charity event, goons would probably have started complaining about him giving away his secret identity. He did a tag team match in WWE a few years ago against Cody Rhodes and for a first timer he was seriously great. I hope his new show about wrestling turns out well.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2020 20:19
|
|
|
Everything I hear about Amell tells me he's a decent guy who really doesn't take any of the TV star stuff for granted. He definitely anchored Arrow and deserves respect for that.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2020 20:24
|
|
|
Push El Burrito posted:When Flash first met Supergirl he used his powers to get her ice cream and she acted like it was the greatest thing to ever happen to her and, honestly, yeah ice cream is pretty good. It's pretty relatable.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2020 20:24
|
|
|
docbeard posted:
So bringing it back to the thread. Would you say then LoT Season 1 didn't age well considering where 2+ went? 
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2020 20:25
|
|
|
Hughlander posted:So bringing it back to the thread. Would you say then LoT Season 1 didn't age well considering where 2+ went? Season one was always bad and everyone always knew it. It didn't age badly it's just bad.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2020 21:03
|
|
|
Bringing it back to Buffy/Angel-- both of their first seasons are pretty dogshit outside of a few blips in quality, but they've aged surprisingly well as time capsules for 1996 and 2000 respectively.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2020 21:08
|
|
|
I really liked season 1 of LoT and have struggled a bit with the fluffier tone going forward, but I think part of that is that I just really liked Leonard.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2020 21:15
|
|
|
pentyne posted:Wasn't that more the cocaine and heroin? Supposedly drinking was what got him canned from Angel because he and David Boreanaz would go out to the bars every night. Which the producers were not too fond of.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2020 21:29
|
|
|
A lot of stories around Angel seem to involve making sure Boreanaz didn't have too many bad influences.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2020 21:30
|
|
|
Angel was one of those shows I describe to nerds as "it's like some guys D&D campaign that went on a little too long, it started out weak when the players were still getting their footing, got real good after a few strong sessions and then as soon as it hit high level it turned to dogshit" and I feel like if you add angry-face vampires that adequately summarizes it
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2020 21:41
|
|
|
The gently caress are you talking about, the final season of Angel rules. I was rewatching some last night after this thread and it holds up remarkably well. It feels 2005 af, but in a good way. The only real sour note is the Fred arc, and even then that's mostly because it's just another case of ladies dying to motivate the dudes.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2020 22:16
|
|
|
pentyne posted:All the "japanese have ~enlightened~ attitudes about sexuality" completely ignore the massive red flag Japan having one of the lowest ages of consent in the world. ok this is a couple pages back but, shut the gently caress up unless you actually know what you're talking about. this is one of those old racist myths that breaks down the second you actually bother to look it up the Penal Code of Japan sets the national minimum age of consent as 13. however, it was also written in loving 1907, and there has been at least one law since (the Child Welfare Act) which directly overrules the Penal Code's statement on the subject and explicitly makes it a crime to have sex with anyone under the age of 18. and the Child Welfare Act is, in some ways, actually stricter than similar American laws (there is no "Romeo and Juliet" exemption, a 19-year-old who fucks a 17-year-old will one hundred percent get arrested for it) japan has a lot of issues, but they're not actually a nation of pedophiles, and your average japanese person is exactly as disgusted by "lolicons" as we are. anime has issues with this because anime is, broadly speaking, made for gross niche audiences that have zero shame and will dump money on anything that caters to them, rather than general audiences; this problem then reaches us because 1) western anime fandom spent roughly a decade being chained to 4chan and a lot of western otaku are pedophiles (or at least distressingly tolerant of pedophilia) as a result of this, and 2) American anime licensors actively seek out stuff that might create controversy and get people's hackles up because bad publicity is still publicity.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2020 22:27
|
|
|
mind the walrus posted:The gently caress are you talking about, the final season of Angel rules. I was rewatching some last night after this thread and it holds up remarkably well. It feels 2005 af, but in a good way. The only real sour note is the Fred arc, and even then that's mostly because it's just another case of ladies dying to motivate the dudes. Yeah this is why I poked my head out earlier, that last season is gold. For a crash cancellation, I can't think of a better way to end that show than "Not Fade Away." Speaking of, there's a lot more agency to Illyria by the end of that episode than you'd think; I don't think it's a straight fridging so much as a transformation of the role (not the character).
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2020 22:27
|
|
|
I think the only reason I didn't hate the Illyria storyline is because Amy Acker is such a brilliant actress and she sold the hell out of it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2020 22:48
|
|
|
docbeard posted:I think the only reason I didn't hate the Illyria storyline is because Amy Acker is such a brilliant actress and she sold the hell out of it. I mean yeah, it's kind of understandable that maybe you've reached an end with Fred as a character arc and can't do a lot more. Illyria was loving cash.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2020 22:55
|
|
|
LORD OF BOOTY posted:ok this is a couple pages back but, shut the gently caress up unless you actually know what you're talking about. this is one of those old racist myths that breaks down the second you actually bother to look it up Anime is actually made for broad audiences. Hell thats a reason the niches exists it’s such a general term that it divides into like a hundred different subcategories and the subcategories survive my appealing to the core audience. It’s just some of the subs categories are you know pedophiles
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2020 23:06
|
|
|
CharlestheHammer posted:Anime is actually made for broad audiences. well, some anime is made for broad audiences. Dragon Ball isn't really a niche series, obviously. Fullmetal Alchemist, Gundam, My Hero Academia, Demon Slayer, etc are all similar and actually are meant for an audience of "basically anyone" (hell, a large chunk of Gundam's Japanese fanbase is housewives). but when you start getting into the series where this kind of poo poo is a really big issue, you're pretty far out from that kind of stuff. a lot of "smaller" anime is made under the assumption that targeting broad audiences is a massive risk, whereas targeting one specific small niche of gross nerds and pushing merch to them at absurd prices is a near-guarantee of the project turning a profit. if you see an anime that appears to be made for pedophiles, it probably directly and deliberately was made for pedophiles, with the intent of squeezing as much money out of them as possible in lieu of being able to target decent human beings. this does not, however, mean that Japanese culture as a whole is okay with this, or that your average Japanese person wouldn't be completely disgusted by it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2020 23:20
|
|
|
Western cartoons are finally breaking into the pedophilia market with Big Mouth
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2020 23:20
|
|
|
Happy monday, birdmod.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2020 23:23
|
|
|
LORD OF BOOTY posted:well, some anime is made for broad audiences. Dragon Ball isn't really a niche series, obviously. Fullmetal Alchemist, Gundam, My Hero Academia, Demon Slayer, etc are all similar and actually are meant for an audience of "basically anyone" (hell, a large chunk of Gundam's Japanese fanbase is housewives). Well yeah that’s my point anime is an umbrella term there is a lot of stuff in there. And some of it is very bad
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2020 23:23
|
|
|
Arivia posted:I mean yeah, it's kind of understandable that maybe you've reached an end with Fred as a character arc and can't do a lot more. Illyria was loving cash. I get it, but it's still bad optics. Fred started as a PTSD shell, and then pretty much the instant she's recovered and independent she's got to pivot hard to be a battle bitch? Again I get the internal logic, but there's no denying it looks fuzzy from the outside, especially because it's hard to picture them doing the same thing to say, Wesley or Gunn. Hell she wasn't even the first woman to reach the "end" of her character journey and get immediately killed (Lilah) or possessed and then killed (Cordellia). Amy Acker is such a great actress and the writing strong enough to sell the turn, but even with all of that it still ultimately feels like a fridge on a show with a history of fridging.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2020 23:24
|
|
|
mind the walrus posted:I get it, but it's still bad optics. Fred started as a PTSD shell, and then pretty much the instant she's recovered and independent she's got to pivot hard to be a battle bitch? Again I get the internal logic, but there's no denying it looks fuzzy from the outside, especially because it's hard to picture them doing the same thing to say, Wesley or Gunn. Hell she wasn't even the first woman to reach the "end" of her character journey and get immediately killed (Lilah) or possessed and then killed (Cordellia). No one would have noticed if Gun had died.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2020 23:26
|
|
|
mind the walrus posted:I get it, but it's still bad optics. Fred started as a PTSD shell, and then pretty much the instant she's recovered and independent she's got to pivot hard to be a battle bitch? Again I get the internal logic, but there's no denying it looks fuzzy from the outside, especially because it's hard to picture them doing the same thing to say, Wesley or Gunn. Hell she wasn't even the first woman to reach the "end" of her character journey and get immediately killed (Lilah) or possessed and then killed (Cordellia). Totally fair. You're right that it's a bad pattern, and I'm discounting that.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2020 23:31
|
|
|
CharlestheHammer posted:Well yeah that’s my point anime is an umbrella term there is a lot of stuff in there. well, yeah, duh, my only point is that making broad assumptions about Japanese culture from the bad stuff is both stupid and racist because most Japanese people hate that poo poo too. like, an analogous situation would be that Hatred video game about committing mass shootings from a few years ago. it's a bad look that the game exists, naturally, and it's a bad game; however, it's not really an indictment of American culture or of western gamers that it exists, because it was targeted towards a specific niche of horrible people, and more or less everyone outside that group went "gently caress this garbage" to the point where you can't stream it on Twitch. its existence is an indictment of that particular niche of lovely people, and them being awful is kind of a "yeah no poo poo" thing. WeedlordGoku69 has a new favorite as of 23:38 on Apr 13, 2020 |
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2020 23:34
|
|
|
Tiggum posted:As I understand it, Flash speed is impressive even to Kryptonians. And honestly if I was in a situation like that where someone demonstrates their super power by just making ice cream appear I'd probably react in a similar way. I liked that one Episode of 90s Superman cartoon which was just a race between Supes and Flash, crossing the world. They ended up encased in ice at one point, and Flash got out faster by vibrating his molecules so fast he melted the ice.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2020 23:44
|
|
|
Samuringa posted:Happy monday, birdmod. hnnnnng
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2020 23:45
|
|
|
sassassin posted:No one would have noticed if Gun had died. Arivia posted:Totally fair. You're right that it's a bad pattern, and I'm discounting that. Schubalts posted:I liked that one Episode of 90s Superman cartoon which was just a race between Supes and Flash, crossing the world. They ended up encased in ice at one point, and Flash got out faster by vibrating his molecules so fast he melted the ice. mind the walrus has a new favorite as of 23:50 on Apr 13, 2020 |
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2020 23:47
|
|
|
mind the walrus posted:I get it, but it's still bad optics. Fred started as a PTSD shell, and then pretty much the instant she's recovered and independent she's got to pivot hard to be a battle bitch? Again I get the internal logic, but there's no denying it looks fuzzy from the outside, especially because it's hard to picture them doing the same thing to say, Wesley or Gunn. Hell she wasn't even the first woman to reach the "end" of her character journey and get immediately killed (Lilah) or possessed and then killed (Cordellia). The Coredellia stuff apparently has alot of backstage bickering involves with how she went. The producers, including Whedon, were very angry about her pregnancy.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2020 00:04
|
|
|
GoutPatrol posted:The Coredellia stuff apparently has alot of backstage bickering involves with how she went. The producers, including Whedon, were very angry about her pregnancy.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2020 00:06
|
|
|
LITERALLY A BIRD posted:hnnnnng Betcha regret accepting that offer to be a mod now.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2020 00:40
|
|
|
Shut up Meg posted:Betcha regret accepting that offer to be a mod now. I sincerely care about this community and most everybody here, and I feel as though I owe you all a debt of gratitude for unknowingly getting me through some rough years. Learning -- or trying to learn -- to be unbiased, patient, and firm but respectful has made me a better person offline too. I'm glad to be PYF mod. but I also really fckin hate you guys sometimes
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2020 00:44
|
|
|
mind the walrus posted:The DCAU animation has aged so poorly though, even the best parts of Batman: The Animated Series look stiff and you can clearly see where all the corners got cut to make deadline. The aesthetic and palette is still great, but goddamn. i remember dini, timm et al perpetually whining about the animation quality in behind-the-scenes stuff - partly because their benchmark was fleischer superman, which is more of a high bar than a benchmark tbh - and one of the main issues was that there were multiple studios handling different episodes, even different elements of a single episode, and while they liked how one studio handled weather, fog, mist, etc and they liked the attention to detail of another studio, one studio they used was eventually fired for the poor, inconsistent quality of their output i think i recall delicate complains that - at best - the overall animation virtually never rose above barely adequate even when it came to the batman tas movie but then again back then most other people would've been comparing the show's animation quality to the average 80s cartoon and there's a lot that would look good next to them hard counter has a new favorite as of 01:00 on Apr 14, 2020 |
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2020 00:55
|
|
|
mind the walrus posted:I get it, but it's still bad optics. Fred started as a PTSD shell, and then pretty much the instant she's recovered and independent she's got to pivot hard to be a battle bitch? Again I get the internal logic, but there's no denying it looks fuzzy from the outside, especially because it's hard to picture them doing the same thing to say, Wesley or Gunn. Hell she wasn't even the first woman to reach the "end" of her character journey and get immediately killed (Lilah) or possessed and then killed (Cordellia). Whedon might maybe have some bad ideas about women.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2020 00:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 20:40 |
|
|
hard counter posted:i remember dini, timm et al perpetually whining about the animation quality in behind-the-scenes stuff - partly because their benchmark was fleischer superman, which is more of a high bar than a benchmark tbh - and one of the main issues was that there were multiple studios handling different episodes, even different elements of a single episode, and while they liked how one studio handled weather, fog, mist, etc and they liked the attention to detail of another studio, one studio they used was eventually fired for the poor, inconsistent quality of their output Fleischer Superman is such a high bar to clear, but yeah there was at least one or two studios that consistently delivered garbage. I'm actually amazed when I see Millennials try to hold up the show as this timeless classic when even 5-10 years out Batman: The Animated Series looked only better well... relative to the average 70s/80s cartoon, like you said. Antifa Turkeesian posted:Whedon might maybe have some bad ideas about women. The only thing on Buffy that has really aged poorly imo is Anya, who is written as essentially autistic in Season 5 for "lolz" and holy gently caress it is painful to watch after a while.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2020 01:09
|
|