|
Hot drat I can't wait to say "I left America" after the COW Alliance (California, Oregon, Washington) secedes, all because the federal government didn't want to govern during a virus and actively encouraged governors and states too look out for themselves.
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2020 23:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 10:36 |
|
|
Spinz posted:It's going to be Trump vs. some Governors now Serious question, through what avenue can trump really force the states to lift restrictions? Like if he orders it, and the governors don't comply, essentially wouldn't it just end up in court and be argued about for months, thereby negating the "you must open now" order?
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2020 23:50
|
|
|
Biohazard posted:Serious question, through what avenue can trump really force the states to lift restrictions? Like if he orders it, and the governors don't comply, essentially wouldn't it just end up in court and be argued about for months, thereby negating the "you must open now" order? In a 5-4 decision...
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2020 23:51
|
|
|
Biohazard posted:Serious question, through what avenue can trump really force the states to lift restrictions? Like if he orders it, and the governors don't comply, essentially wouldn't it just end up in court and be argued about for months, thereby negating the "you must open now" order?
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2020 23:52
|
|
|
Spinz posted:It's going to be Trump vs. some Governors now He holds exactly no cards. He has no legal authority to do what he thinks he does, nor is there any mechanism he can use or even abuse to accomplish his stated goals. He would literally have to start a civil war to force any single state to reopen if the governor doesn't want to.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2020 23:53
|
|
|
Biohazard posted:Serious question, through what avenue can trump really force the states to lift restrictions? Like if he orders it, and the governors don't comply, essentially wouldn't it just end up in court and be argued about for months, thereby negating the "you must open now" order? He can't. Federalism is a double edged sword. The states had to beg Trump for help because they didn't have what they needed to survive. On the other hand, they don't have to reopen if they don't want to. If other states nearby do reopen, however, they will get the benefit of running while their competitors cannot. That's why on a national scale, Trump wants to reopen-- he sees China getting a big advantage. First they infected us, now they can work while we can't. That means they can snatch up even more business share than they already have. On another note, states can't prevent the free travel between themselves. Rhode Island almost got in trouble for this from tracking down New Yorkers who had escaped into its borders/blocking incoming New Yorkers. It's unconstitutional.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2020 23:57
|
|
|
I said come in! posted:https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/13/who-officials-say-its-unclear-whether-recovered-coronavirus-patients-are-immune-to-second-infection.html Nah. The people who get asymptomatic or just mild cold like symptoms will be fine. They might catch it 2, 3, 4 times a year, but they'll be fine. There will be enough of them to keep civilization rolling along fine. If no treatment is developed and the virus doesn't mutate to a less deadly form, then the 20% of the population who get very very sick will either go into extreme isolation or die. Maybe not on their first go round, or their second, but eventually lungs or heart will fail and they'll die. In a decade it'll just be normal certain chronic ailments are more deadly than they used to be, and that most people don't live much past 70.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2020 23:57
|
|
|
CRUSTY MINGE posted:In a 5-4 decision... But getting it to the supreme court would no doubt take going through other courts no? Like again I think it'd take at least a month. Like with Bush V Gore, they had to have the state supreme court rule on it, and then brought it to the SCOTUS. Presumeable he'd have to do that with each individual state who's own supreme court ruled against his orders.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2020 23:58
|
|
|
William Henry Hairytaint posted:Congrats goons who live in states where planning for balkanization is already underway. Surely they can't close all the roads that quickly If things get super bad I'm going to Slab City
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2020 23:59
|
|
|
coronavirus posted:Whats the absolute worst case scenario if Trump demanded everyone back at work next week? 1 million die this year from the beer bug? 3 million? LA county officials claimed last week that if we lifted lockdown now something like 96% of people in the county would get infected. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-10/l-a-county-to-extend-health-stay-home-order-to-may-15
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2020 00:01
|
|
|
Chomp8645 posted:Hot drat I can't wait to say "I left America" after the COW Alliance (California, Oregon, Washington) secedes, all because the federal government didn't want to govern during a virus and actively encouraged governors and states too look out for themselves. Dear California, Please let us into the clubhouse. I know you think we're annoying but it'll be super worth it. We'll even bring that cool dam, as long as the Arizonans don't steal it. Signed, Nevada
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2020 00:02
|
|
|
Biohazard posted:But getting it to the supreme court would no doubt take going through other courts no? Like again I think it'd take at least a month. Like with Bush V Gore, they had to have the state supreme court rule on it, and then brought it to the SCOTUS. Presumeable he'd have to do that with each individual state who's own supreme court ruled against his orders. Did you not see where SCOTUS got all involved in the Wisconsin election last week? Here's a recent article. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/13/us/wisconsin-election-voting-rights.html quote:It was the first major voting-rights decision led by the court’s conservative newest member, Justice Brett M. Kavanaugh, and it was in keeping with a broader Republican approach that puts more weight on protecting against potential fraud — vanishingly rare in American elections — than the right to vote, with limited regard for the added burdens of the pandemic.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2020 00:03
|
|
|
precision posted:Surely they can't close all the roads that quickly Slab City doesnt like visitors or newcomers even in normal times, i doubt you would have a very welcome reception if you went there now let alone if poo poo gets super bad and thousands of others get the same idea
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2020 00:03
|
|
|
Biohazard posted:Serious question, through what avenue can trump really force the states to lift restrictions? Like if he orders it, and the governors don't comply, essentially wouldn't it just end up in court and be argued about for months, thereby negating the "you must open now" order? It doesn't have to end up in court. The federal government can stop the stimulus payments. Declare that anyone who is furloughed due to state closure orders is not entitled to normal unemployment benefits. No loans or other help for businesses that are closed or have decreased income. Close whatever you want, we're not paying for it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2020 00:04
|
|
|
Earwicker posted:Slab City doesnt like visitors or newcomers even in normal times, i doubt you would have a very welcome reception if you went there now let alone if poo poo gets super bad and thousands of others get the same idea I've got a friend there, but yeah if lots of people get that idea then nope
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2020 00:05
|
|
|
i have a feeling the whole california desert area is already way too full of people who thought it would be smart to "escape from the city" and head out to a region with way fewer hospitals and doctors and an already vulnerable population. palm springs and coachella etc moreso than slab city of course but its not like slab city has its own hospital
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2020 00:09
|
|
|
Biohazard posted:But getting it to the supreme court would no doubt take going through other courts no? Like again I think it'd take at least a month. Like with Bush V Gore, they had to have the state supreme court rule on it, and then brought it to the SCOTUS. Presumeable he'd have to do that with each individual state who's own supreme court ruled against his orders. Again, what orders? He can demand poo poo all he wants but unless he literally withholds assistance from entire corporations and states in a hostage situation (probably not great for re-election) I don’t think they have to do anything he says. I feel like there’s a name for it when the federal government gets involved in controlling businesses and means of production but I can’t quite remember what it is 
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2020 00:09
|
|
|
Hazo posted:unless he literally withholds assistance from entire corporations and states in a hostage situation (probably not great for re-election) I don’t think they have to do anything he says. the states that he'd be witholding assistance from (and has already seized supplies from) are in general not states that vote for him. which is already part of what is going on!
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2020 00:10
|
|
|
Hazo posted:(probably not great for re-election) The problem is the states he’s gonna be going after are ones he knows won’t go for him anyway. Now, some people in other states will probably think that’s hosed up and not vote for him, but it’s not like he’s going to be trying to flex on Texas or South Carolina or something.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2020 00:11
|
|
|
Facebook Aunt posted:Nah. The people who get asymptomatic or just mild cold like symptoms will be fine. They might catch it 2, 3, 4 times a year, but they'll be fine. There will be enough of them to keep civilization rolling along fine. Currently around 10% of the infected end up with pneumonia or much worse lung damage putting them in a much higher fatality risk group if reinfected. If it becomes endemic, and you get it multiple times a year it will kill you long, long before you are 70. If it becomes endemic you are absolutely hosed, unless some kinda near miracle poo poo happens with vaccine development etc.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2020 00:25
|
|
|
Kharmakazy posted:He holds exactly no cards. He has no legal authority to do what he thinks he does, nor is there any mechanism he can use or even abuse to accomplish his stated goals. He would literally have to start a civil war to force any single state to reopen if the governor doesn't want to. He's got the $ No $600 every week No additional $1200, oh he so would have another big payment just to withhold it I don't know enough to name off what he could do in retaliation but its got to be massive and multipronged
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2020 00:36
|
|
|
Virginia Pro - our governor declared stay-at-home order until June 10th back end of March/beginning of April so we've been planning on a longer term lockdown for two weeks now Con - attached to DC, convenient "make an example of them" distance from Trump
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2020 00:41
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2020 00:41
|
|
|
Spinz posted:He's got the $ Can he do that, though? Isn't it Congressional money?
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2020 00:42
|
|
|
13Pandora13 posted:Con - attached to DC, convenient "make an example of them" distance from Trump virginia voted for him and can also be more or less considered a swing state making you guys less of a target for that
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2020 00:44
|
|
|
Earwicker posted:virginia voted for him and can also be more or less considered a swing state making you guys less of a target for that nope https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_presidential_election We kicked his rear end in a top hat buddy Dave Brat out of his (central VA) seat too last midterm cycle. We're solidly purple but bluer by the year.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2020 00:45
|
|
|
I'm sure that's some stuff started on 4Chan
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2020 00:45
|
|
|
Facebook Aunt posted:Nah. The people who get asymptomatic or just mild cold like symptoms will be fine. They might catch it 2, 3, 4 times a year, but they'll be fine. There will be enough of them to keep civilization rolling along fine. What is to say the 2nd or 3rd time being infected to this virus won't be deadly for those people? Even those that survive are being left with lung scarring and other permanent damage to their bodies.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2020 00:46
|
|
|
The Modern Leper posted:Can he do that, though? Isn't it Congressional money? first of all the president has the power of veto over congress but second of all its april of 2020 why on earth is any discussion assuming that this president operates within the bounds of law and normal procedure anyway?
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2020 00:47
|
|
|
13Pandora13 posted:nope https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_presidential_election oh my bad i dont know why i misremembered va as voting for him, my apologies!
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2020 00:48
|
|
|
Ugly In The Morning posted:The problem is the states he’s gonna be going after are ones he knows won’t go for him anyway. Now, some people in other states will probably think that’s hosed up and not vote for him, but it’s not like he’s going to be trying to flex on Texas or South Carolina or something. Texas is already not a fan of a big federal reopening: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/texas-gov-wants-slowly-reopen-private-business-trump-says-s-n1182886
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2020 00:54
|
|
|
Facebook Aunt posted:It doesn't have to end up in court. The federal government can stop the stimulus payments. Declare that anyone who is furloughed due to state closure orders is not entitled to normal unemployment benefits. No loans or other help for businesses that are closed or have decreased income. Close whatever you want, we're not paying for it. Congress can do some of that. POTUS can't do any of that.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2020 00:54
|
|
|
Earwicker posted:first of all the president has the power of veto over congress but second of all its april of 2020 why on earth is any discussion assuming that this president operates within the bounds of law and normal procedure anyway? That's not what a veto is or in any way adjacent to how anything works.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2020 00:56
|
|
|
we are all gonna die Coronavirus updates: 21 NYC public school teachers dead https://abcnews.go.com/US/coronavir...IcZ2SXi_BRoLp5o
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2020 00:56
|
|
|
A summary on why Trump is impotent in reopening: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/fact-check-trump-claims-it-s-his-call-when-reopen-n1182836quote:The president didn't shutter the country — governors did, using authorities afforded to the states to quarantine and isolate — and he can't simply announce its reopening.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2020 00:58
|
|
|
i looked at my data usage and this month between only using wifi at home and wifi at work i only used .2 gb out of 4 gb on my cell plan similar thing is probably happening where people are just cancelling data plans because they dont need them
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2020 00:58
|
|
|
13Pandora13 posted:This. Lentils, chickpeas, quinoa, beans, etc. have all been sold out everywhere for going on six weeks now around me and drat near everywhere online. "People should eat less meat anyway" is really loving stupid when non-meat protein is completely unavailable because as it ends up, you loving die with no protein/amino acids at all. protein from legumes is infinitely more efficient/cheaper to produce than meat of any kind. chill out.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2020 00:59
|
|
|
numberoneposter posted:i looked at my data usage and this month between only using wifi at home and wifi at work i only used .2 gb out of 4 gb on my cell plan I saw same exact thing, thought something was wrong at first Also re Trump loving with the states---- Hey I'd be happy to be wrong!!!!! 
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2020 01:00
|
|
|
Kharmakazy posted:That's not what a veto is or in any way adjacent to how anything works. what isnt what a veto is? the president has the power to veto leglislation passed by congress. im aware that the president cannot of course veto a bill that has already been signed into law but again i dont understand why anyone is operating under the assumption that normal rules and procedures apply anyway. not that i think trump would bother with anything formal i think more likely he would find more underhanded and less direct ways of loving with states, such as the rerouting of supplies that already happened
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2020 01:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 10:36 |
|
|
another, much easier, thing the president could to do "reopen" without the states go ahead is to simply make a big public speech about how important religious and family gatherings are and how important it is for businesses to be open, that these things are the right of every American, and that any state or local authority telling you not to go to church or to keep your business closed is trying to oppress their American freedom. for any state that doesnt comply they have a big new law enforcement problem to deal with at a time when resources are already strained by the virus.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2020 01:05
|
|