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Fritz the Horse posted:One of the most infuriating things about Trump (for me at least) is how he believes his own bullshit. It's not so much Trump believing his own bullshit that bugs me, it's how his followers believe it and how he's the greatest man ever and all that bullshit. If it were practical I'd say move all the people from Puerto Rico to the mainland and put Trump and his chuds there instead. Let them live out their fantasy bullshit on an island by their lonesome.
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Apr 14, 2020 04:40
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I can't fault them for it either. Every state relied on DC to do their jobs. Instead Trump decided to do a song and dance while Kushner told everyone to get hosed. So now the states are forming groups to try and help each other. It's like one of those "Fall of the US" game maps where groups of states form new countries
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Apr 14, 2020 04:48
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LeeMajors posted:My state already initiated confederacy once and this doesn't bode well. They aren't seceding from the Union, they're forming a more perfect Union. Manager Hoyden posted:Also if someone in 2016 asked "what's the worst that can happen with Trump running the country" and you replied "six figures dead, mass graves, and the dissolution of the union" I would imagine you would get some funny looks and yet here we are Considering how many were expecting a forever war of mass casualties or a nuke strike, i think this would be more a sigh of relief Raenir Salazar posted:You can join Canada instead, I say, with the widest grin on my face. Britain and France fought a sort of world war over it SocketWrench fucked around with this message at 04:55 on Apr 14, 2020 |
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Apr 14, 2020 04:50
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It's going to come down to a SCOTUS decision that goes in favor of the federal government because of the Commerce Clause.
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Apr 14, 2020 04:51
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cr0y posted:I'm in Pittsburgh. At dawn we march west for glory! Strictly speaking interstate compacts that don't have the okay from the federal government are unconstitutional. regulating interstate commerce is one of the power specifically reserved for the federal government. So something like this does have the possibility of causing a constitutional conflict along with Trump trying to butt in on clearly state right matters of enforcing their own stay-at-home orders.
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Apr 14, 2020 04:54
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Oh no, a constitutional crisis, what ever shall we do?
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Apr 14, 2020 05:01
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human garbage bag posted:It's going to come down to a SCOTUS decision that goes in favor of the federal government because of the Commerce Clause. It would probably take a while for that to go through the court at least.
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Apr 14, 2020 05:05
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SocketWrench posted:It's not so much Trump believing his own bullshit that bugs me, it's how his followers believe it and how he's the greatest man ever and all that bullshit. One thing this pandemic has answered for me is roughly how many of these GOP voters are "true believers". I'd always kinda assumed a lot of Trump supporters weren't really so much of true believers in all their bullshit that requires massive cognitive dissonance, but moreso just kind of rallying behind a general "gently caress liberals" message for various reasons. But apparently, a lot of people actually buy the GOP talking points hook, line and sinker. Ironically, I signed up for a Facebook account for the first time ever about a week before the California shelter in place went up to run some paid ads on Instagram. I haven't actually met a Trump supporter in person in years here in the Bay Area. Seeing all of these people on Facebook proudly defending the quack drugs Trump is pushing, making GBS threads on government stimulus checks but also posting about not being able to afford rent towards the end of March, bitching about abortions being essential services, and generally making GBS threads on socialism in the most ignorant ways possible is pretty surreal to see from some people I've known over the years that the FB algorithm decided to recommend I connect with. I mean I wasn't holding these people up to be beacons of intelligence or morality or anything when I knew/worked with them, but it's definitely kinda jolting to see what seemed like otherwise decent people at the time all frothing at the mouth with GOP/Trump rage.
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Apr 14, 2020 05:05
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In a 5-4 decision, the Supreme Court ruled that during an officially declared national emergency the President possesses "absolute authority" to decree whatever he wants, actually.
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Apr 14, 2020 05:09
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mdemone posted:The Master and Margarita 
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Apr 14, 2020 05:10
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Abner Assington posted:Oh no, a constitutional crisis, what ever shall we do? One way that this constitutional issue might be avoided is by framing the council as an advisory body rather than having any power over the policies of any of the states. In that respects it's not really any different than having a meeting between the various states. If there isn't a contractual relationship between the states forcing them to engage in behavior in the same way then theoretically you could avoid the interstate compact issue.
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Apr 14, 2020 05:10
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human garbage bag posted:It's going to come down to a SCOTUS decision that goes in favor of the federal government because of the Commerce Clause. Well, the Commerce Clause only regulates what Congress can do. As it stands, the President doesn't have the direct authority to order governors what to do, and executive orders are limited to actions by executive agencies. The biggest thing Trump could do is federalize the state's National Guard units, but even that heavy-handed move would be of limited utility.
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Apr 14, 2020 05:11
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Acebuckeye13 posted:Well, the Commerce Clause only regulates what Congress can do. As it stands, the President doesn't have the direct authority to order governors what to do, and executive orders are limited to actions by executive agencies. The biggest thing Trump could do is federalize the state's National Guard units, but even that heavy-handed move would be of limited utility. Couldn't the federal government threaten to withhold highway or other funding like it's done to enforce the drinking age? I mean, lol at the optics of Trump threatening governors to either sacrifice thousands of American lives to the stock market gods or he'll withhold critical infastructure funding. But anything is possible and in fact the stupidest possibility is probable.
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Apr 14, 2020 05:16
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Manager Hoyden posted:Also if someone in 2016 asked "what's the worst that can happen with Trump running the country" and you replied "six figures dead, mass graves, and the dissolution of the union" I would imagine you would get some funny looks and yet here we are Oh don't forget the caged and dead migrant children!
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Apr 14, 2020 05:16
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Vladimir Putin just popped a boner so hard it upped his risk of a stroke.
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Apr 14, 2020 05:17
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Fritz the Horse posted:Couldn't the federal government threaten to withhold highway or other funding like it's done to enforce the drinking age? That was though an act of Congress. Congress can certainly compel the states to comply though legislation, but that's also not going to happen with Dems controlling the House.
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Apr 14, 2020 05:20
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Parakeet vs. Phone posted:I am really curious about how it plays out if he throws a temper tantrum and tells them to open. i think outside the reddest of states, most govenors/folks are gonna keep shutdown with maybe incremental lightning up. are states still begging for stuff or has that crisis gotten a little better.
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Apr 14, 2020 05:21
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Dapper_Swindler posted:i think outside the reddest of states, most govenors/folks are gonna keep shutdown with maybe incremental lightning up. This is one of the weirdest parts of this whole experience. I know theoretically there are people pulling back to back 24 hour shifts but things are totally quiet for me. I check my email, manage my job, and wonder whether that thing I read on the news last week about enormous shortages and mass graves is getting any better or still going.
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Apr 14, 2020 05:23
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Telsa Cola posted:Gotta stop at the 8 state council so it still rolls off the tongue. we cant just have NH and VT in the middle of the council , that's stupid. We're not going to repeat the mistake that South Africa did
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Apr 14, 2020 05:25
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Arglebargle III posted:This is one of the weirdest parts of this whole experience. I know theoretically there are people pulling back to back 24 hour shifts but things are totally quiet for me. I check my email, manage my job, and wonder whether that thing I read on the news last week about enormous shortages and mass graves is getting any better or still going. my guess is they are still asking for stuff but china/etc/california has them covered. its clear trumps fed hosed up and isnt helpful.
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Apr 14, 2020 05:26
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Trump is going to nationalise all the hospitals so he can immediately privatise them again and give them to Kushner to run as a business.
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Apr 14, 2020 05:28
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All that's missing from the Glorious Nation Of Cascadia is British Columbia.
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Apr 14, 2020 05:32
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Acebuckeye13 posted:That was though an act of Congress. Congress can certainly compel the states to comply though legislation, but that's also not going to happen with Dems controlling the House. Oh, duh, late night posting has me forgetting basics such as Congress theoretically controlling the budget. Theoretically. I clutch my pocket Constitution while going "but the executive can't unilaterally change the federal budget!" as Trump loving dunks on us over and over. Like a dog. I wouldn't be surprised if he threatens states to comply with "reopening" the country. Though just like everything else he threatens he'll back down then pretend it never happened while whining pathetically. 1) Trump declares victory over the very smart, hidden enemy. He demands states lift quarantine / shelter-in-place orders. 2) A bunch of states ignore him and tell him that, actually, he does not have that power and he can gently caress off. 3) Trump threatens defiant states with reduced funding or something. 4) A few weeks later, some red states that reopened have large new outbreaks. 5) Trump blames the blue states who ignored his order, it's their fault somehow.
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Apr 14, 2020 05:38
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Fritz the Horse posted:Oh, duh, late night posting has me forgetting basics such as Congress theoretically controlling the budget. Theoretically. I clutch my pocket Constitution while going "but the executive can't unilaterally change the federal budget!" as Trump loving dunks on us over and over. Like a dog. red states are having big outbreaks. SD is apperently a massive hotspot now because the governor didnt shutdown until last week.
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Apr 14, 2020 05:40
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Dapper_Swindler posted:red states are having big outbreaks. SD is apperently a massive hotspot now because the governor didnt shutdown until last week. There's already been a 300+ person cluster in Sioux Falls at one of the nation's bigger pork processing plants that's required a complete shut down, so hooray for knowingly chiseling cracks in the food supply chain! Paracaidas fucked around with this message at 05:55 on Apr 14, 2020 |
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Apr 14, 2020 05:52
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VitalSigns posted:You're retreating into fiction now. And I'm still not willing to accept you evidence-free assertion, so it's on you to show that House Democrats, as an organization, helped this legislation pass. I'm sure there's documentation you can link to. Whatabout the Senate? I addressed that in part of my post... weird how it didn't make it into what you quoted! Must be Radium's fault.
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Apr 14, 2020 05:55
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some chunk of the midwest should just say fuckit and call themselves gondor to really get this going
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Apr 14, 2020 06:00
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Dapper_Swindler posted:red states are having big outbreaks. SD is apperently a massive hotspot now because the governor didnt shutdown until last week. Paracaidas posted:Nah, she still hasn't issued a stay-at-home order. She's aware that models have an up to 70% infection rate in South Dakota if she continues not doing poo poo, but: “The people themselves are primarily responsible for their safety,” she said. “They are the ones that are entrusted with expansive freedoms.” I live in SD, heh. Supposedly the governor of SD does not have the authority to order businesses closed or whatever. About a month ago our governor ordered nonessential workers to stay at home and such, but left it up to counties and cities to enforce. The bad outbreak we have is mostly at the Smithfield (formerly John Morrell) meat packing plant. If you are from the region you'll remember Morrell's infamous history of being utter scumbags and getting caught dumping all sorts of nasty poo poo into the river. Nobody is surprised that they would not give workers adequate protections or shut down. I fully expect many red states to have bad outbreaks but in SD's particular case I'd blame the Smithfield operators just as much if not more than the state government.
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Apr 14, 2020 06:01
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It's not worth freaking out over multiple states forming a plan to combat the virus, if the state next door cuts the social distancing order too early they'll trigger another wave for the whole region.
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Apr 14, 2020 06:02
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Also I work for a tribal college on one of the many reservations in SD. Once the pandemic gets going on the reservations it's going to be very ugly, because most tribal members rely on Indian Health Services and IHS is chronically underfunded, to a ridiculous extent. The reservations also have high rates of diabetes, obesity, smoking, substance abuse etc.
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Apr 14, 2020 06:03
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cr0y posted:Seriously though is this as big of a deal as people are making it out to be? It can be a very big deal. You have the two most important states both in terms of tax revenue but also for most of the economy of the country as a whole. The two main ports for the country are in LA and NYC for example. Something like 90% of all food East of the Mississippi comes through NYC. All goods from China, Japan and Korea come through LA. With both California and New York effectively creating state-nations it is now going to be a game of chicken with the federal government on who will blink first. The reason why the Federal Government let California create their own environmental and emission standards for example is they have not wanted this fight at all. Best case scenario is the country effectively becomes something akin to the EU where each state is effectively a sovereign nation with trade deals, etc worked out between them and the Federal Government has little overall power and is more about setting regulations and guidelines. Worse case is that you have states leave, become sovereign nations and enact severe economic pain on the remaining states by cutting off trade immediately amongst other things. In either scenario most of the flyover states along with the Deep South would become third world nations quickly. Industry and business would run to the California or New York coalitions which would add even more pain to the current situation. I theorized this awhile back and it was much less probable than it is now.
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Apr 14, 2020 06:03
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on the subject of Merica massive industrial meat machine, how much do our lakes of animal poo poo grow every day during normal times?
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Apr 14, 2020 06:05
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New mayor of Wausau https://mobile.twitter.com/katierosenberg/status/1249817824689881090 Mr Ice Cream Glove fucked around with this message at 06:16 on Apr 14, 2020 |
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Apr 14, 2020 06:05
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Fritz the Horse posted:Also I work for a tribal college on one of the many reservations in SD. Once the pandemic gets going on the reservations it's going to be very ugly, because most tribal members rely on Indian Health Services and IHS is chronically underfunded, to a ridiculous extent. The reservations also have high rates of diabetes, obesity, smoking, substance abuse etc. We've got the same issue coming up with remote townships. Fortunately access to these regions is already controlled so its easy to shut out outsiders, but theres a real worry about someone visiting someone outside and carrying it back in with them.
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Apr 14, 2020 06:10
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Djarum posted:It can be a very big deal. You have the two most important states both in terms of tax revenue but also for most of the economy of the country as a whole. The two main ports for the country are in LA and NYC for example. Something like 90% of all food East of the Mississippi comes through NYC. All goods from China, Japan and Korea come through LA. Rather than fracturing, I think it's far more likely that states trying to exercise more authority will get smacked down by the courts and used as an excuse to further empower the Presidency. Because "states rights" federalism is a thing the GOP actually supports only when states are doing things they like, such as banning abortion or incarcerating minorities.
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Apr 14, 2020 06:10
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I'm a huge fan of this balkanization but can this please wait until after december after I've graduated from college and moved out of Texas where I'd be relegated to the nationstate that would legalize slavery
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Apr 14, 2020 06:11
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Djarum posted:It can be a very big deal. You have the two most important states both in terms of tax revenue but also for most of the economy of the country as a whole. The two main ports for the country are in LA and NYC for example. Something like 90% of all food East of the Mississippi comes through NYC. All goods from China, Japan and Korea come through LA. So in this reality, the large amount of traffic going through ports on the Gulf just isn't a thing then? Enjoy paying $15 a gallon for all your gasoline I guess. One example among many. EDIT Also, you're aware cities like say....Cleveland have ports too right? Just checking. The more you know.
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Apr 14, 2020 06:14
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The Lone Badger posted:We've got the same issue coming up with remote townships. Fortunately access to these regions is already controlled so its easy to shut out outsiders, but theres a real worry about someone visiting someone outside and carrying it back in with them. We might get into some really interesting legal territory w/r/t tribal sovereignty, the tribe here is discussing checkpoints at the four highway entrances to the reservation. You will probably recall the tribal nations around here being more than slightly upset about oil pipelines running on or near their land...
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Apr 14, 2020 06:15
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Fritz the Horse posted:One of the most infuriating things about Trump (for me at least) is how he believes his own bullshit. he's not "lying" he's "representing the truth". trump doesn't feel like a fat rear end so if you ask him his weight he'll tell you how he feels like he weighs and, for him, that's the truth. and he doesn't consider it "lying" because it's "not hurting anything" because he's still giving, in his eyes, an accurate account. basically if he can justify something it might as well be the truth so it is the truth. trump didn't steal from you because he needed the money so it wasn't theft theft.
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Apr 14, 2020 06:19
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Fritz the Horse posted:We might get into some really interesting legal territory w/r/t tribal sovereignty, the tribe here is discussing checkpoints at the four highway entrances to the reservation. Here you already need their permission to enter, so the legalities at least are easy.
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Apr 14, 2020 06:25
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