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It might be time to dust off this old thing: Though it needs a little update.
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Apr 14, 2020 11:26
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Really? Cyprus and Malta are on board with austerity? I also enjoy the annexation of Luxemburg by Belgium.
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Apr 14, 2020 11:35
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Orange Devil posted:Really? Cyprus and Malta are on board with austerity?
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Apr 14, 2020 11:54
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Also there's no way Poland and Hungary would end up on different sides. Speaking of, what side are they on in the whole Eurobonds issue anyway?
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Apr 14, 2020 13:42
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Orange Devil posted:Also there's no way Poland and Hungary would end up on different sides. Speaking of, what side are they on in the whole Eurobonds issue anyway? But yeah, the division might have been more aesthetic than political. 
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Apr 14, 2020 13:54
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Pretty borders are important, you know.
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Apr 14, 2020 13:58
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Orange Devil posted:Also there's no way Poland and Hungary would end up on different sides. Speaking of, what side are they on in the whole Eurobonds issue anyway? They're not in the euro so they probably don't give a poo poo.
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Apr 14, 2020 14:20
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Owling Howl posted:They're not in the euro so they probably don't give a poo poo. They're both supposed to be working towards implementing the euro though.
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Apr 14, 2020 18:32
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Orange Devil posted:They're both supposed to be working towards implementing the euro though. I'm sure they'll get right on that asap
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Apr 14, 2020 18:40
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Quick question: How far Left would Bernie Sanders be considered in Europe?
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Apr 15, 2020 05:00
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punk rebel ecks posted:Quick question: How far Left would Bernie Sanders be considered in Europe?
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Apr 15, 2020 05:31
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He'd be center left but villified as a far left communist by everyone to his right. Same as all other center to far left politicians in Europe.
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Apr 15, 2020 05:46
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I see. I'm asking because Glenn Greenwald said a German politician said that Bernie Sanders would fit right in Germany's centrist party.
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Apr 15, 2020 05:51
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What compels the EU to be ghoulish towards any welfare nation they consider too leftist? Why pick a fight with Portugal now? To rob them blind?
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Apr 15, 2020 05:55
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Grouchio posted:What compels the EU to be ghoulish towards any welfare nation they consider too leftist? Why pick a fight with Portugal now? To rob them blind? National political and financial interests. If a socialist government is seen as successful and others would follow, the current center right to rightwing governments would lose power. They'd also lose money because socialist policies don't favour the wealthy and politicians at the (inter)national level are mostly non-poor to put it mildly. It's also a lot easier to scapegoat a group of foreign others for the economic woes of Europe and thus make electoral gains in your own country. You can for example blame Dutch socialists for Portugal going into debt because they're enacting a socialist platform. It doesn't have to make sense, nor does the debt have to come from those policies, it can just as well come from Europe fining Portugal for not starving their population through austerity.
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Apr 15, 2020 06:13
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A Buttery Pastry posted:He's a, and I'm sorry to say this, social-democrat. So, depends on the country really, at least if you're talking relative to existing society and systems. Here in Denmark I'd say he's center-left in that regard, though he's probably far left relative to the system our entire establishment wants. I guess in some countries the establishment would see him as an extreme left communist. sanders tries to move society to the left and thus is on the left. these things don't make much sense unless one adjusts for context imo
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Apr 15, 2020 07:31
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nimby posted:National political and financial interests. If a socialist government is seen as successful and others would follow, the current center right to rightwing governments would lose power. They'd also lose money because socialist policies don't favour the wealthy and politicians at the (inter)national level are mostly non-poor to put it mildly. Plus the right understands that you need to strike the iron while it is hot. Never waste a good crisis, so the time to be absolute ghouls is specifically right in the middle of this crisis. Meanwhile we have to wait until we go back to a situation in which it isn't absolutely clear to everyone that nurses and teachers are vital before they can even begin to negotiate about their working conditions, rather than making the most out of the current situation in which the iron is hotter than it's ever been.
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Apr 15, 2020 09:54
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The socialist party in Portugal is not a socialist party.its, at best , a social democrat one(albeit a more left wing one than usual in the EU).all the cool leftists things they have done it's because they relied on parliamentary support from the left bloc and the Communist, who have been dragging PS to the left.they have been conditioning the state budget approval to the enactment of a bunch of good leftists policies. This latest round of EU rebuke it's because PS (center-left) and PSD (center-right/center-center/center-left depending on the week) have been making noises about possibly forming a "national salvation" government to tackle the corona crisis and economic meltdown, under the implicit sponsorship of our president.its a smokescreen, and a cover for serious people (TM) to float that idea. Btw, while the state of emergency lasts, strikes aren't legal.(well, they technically are because the right to strike is enshrined in our Constitution, but I bet no one wants to test that in the supreme court during a national emergency). Our finance minister and current ecofin superstar, credited for fixing our economy, is a neo classical economist.he believes the same dumb bullshit every other "serious" economist believes.hes been throttling new public investment for ages to balance the books, and therefore doing a mini-austerity. This is just a dumb show, the Portuguese government would happily follow Germany if they could get away with it. At most it's payback for our PM calling out the Dutch finance minister.these people are loving petty.
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Apr 15, 2020 11:27
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Antifa Poltergeist posted:This latest round of EU rebuke it's because PS (center-left) and PSD (center-right/center-center/center-left depending on the week) have been making noises about possibly forming a "national salvation" government to tackle the corona crisis and economic meltdown, under the implicit sponsorship of our president so the center left finally come into power and actually improve things because the left twists their arm and now they want to get into bed with the center right and make everything poo poo again
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Apr 15, 2020 11:48
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#centerLeft #centrism
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Apr 15, 2020 11:53
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V. Illych L. posted:sanders tries to move society to the left and thus is on the left. these things don't make much sense unless one adjusts for context imo In Germany he'd be an extremist, since he believes in stuff like counter-cyclical and deficit spending.
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Apr 15, 2020 11:57
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punk rebel ecks posted:I see. I'm asking because Glenn Greenwald said a German politician said that Bernie Sanders would fit right in Germany's centrist party. Sanders overall position would probably put him in the progressive wing of the German SPD, which is the center-left party in the currently governing grand coalition. His universal healthcare proposal is bolder than the German dual-payer system, which allows an irrevocable opt-out from mandatory public insurance in favour of a mandatory private insurance. There are some people in the SPD that want to get rid of private insurance. However, his climate policy is far better than anything the SPD would table, because traditional social democrats sometimes still think they need to stand up for coal mines. Relative to the domestic situation in the US, Bernie Sanders is very far left, though. It just happens that Europe got lucky to have existing welfare systems. Our far left people are all about socialised housing, universal income and nationalising infrastructure.
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Apr 15, 2020 11:58
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A Buttery Pastry posted:In Germany he'd be an extremist, since he believes in stuff like counter-cyclical and deficit spending. That’s true, too. It it’s not really something you could plot on a left-right scale, though, since ordo-liberal economics is something uniquely German and it’s unfortunately pretty universally accepted there.
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Apr 15, 2020 12:01
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I doubt the SPD would accept Bernie, seeing as their entire purpose in German politics is to enter coalitions with the CDU without shifting them to the left at all
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Apr 15, 2020 12:01
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Honj Steak posted:That’s true, too. It it’s not really something you could plot on a left-right scale, though, since ordo-liberal economics is something uniquely German and it’s unfortunately pretty universally accepted there.
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Apr 15, 2020 12:14
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Doctor Jeep posted:so the center left finally come into power and actually improve things because the left twists their arm Yes, because as you may surmise, from the point of view of PS , dealing with the left bloc and the Communists is a pain in the rear end because they are relentless and will make your life hard even when supporting you, a majority faction of PS has more in common with PSD than with the leftist parties. From EU perspective, having a perceived leftist government do "well"makes things difficult perception wise, and while they might go "well, they aren't that left wing" ,then most people would ask "if they aren't radical leftists, then why aren't we doing the same things they are?". Historically, there's two main ministers in a government , the PM and the finance minister.the finance minister is the one expected to be able to say "no" to the PM and suffer no political repercussions.and that's, by and large, a good thing.but also makes the finance minister more conservative than the rest of the cabinet. Our PM is a politically savy guy, might be the most talented politician of his generation. To his credit some of his socialist upbringing still lives on in his defense of national services and defense of the social safety net.you can see it when he talks about it, the guy believes those are good things. By all accounts, he's clean as a whistle.hes not prone to stabbing you in the back, that's why the left bloc and the Communists where willing to work with him. But he also has international ambitions, and that means if he can get cover to run to the center and be perceived, on the EU stage, as a responsible adult willing to make the hard sacrifices and blah blah blah, he will do it. It doesn't help that when there is a crisis everyone turtles up.thats a disease of the system though, and certainly extended to the EU as a whole.
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Apr 15, 2020 12:20
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Venomous posted:I doubt the SPD would accept Bernie, seeing as their entire purpose in German politics is to enter coalitions with the CDU without shifting them to the left at all And occasionally murdering left wingers.
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Apr 15, 2020 12:24
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the SPD has been a reactionary party since 1914, it's amazing how they've managed to keep a grip on left-wing impulses in the century since that immense betrayal
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Apr 15, 2020 12:34
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It's worth mentioning that Portugal's socialist government has actually decreased public debt more than Germany in the time it has been in power.
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Apr 15, 2020 12:43
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Orange Devil posted:And occasionally murdering left wingers. Unlike the real left-wing/socialist party in Germany, the SED/PDS/Die Linke, which regularly murdered people when it was in power. But then, these people were obviously liberals, if they wanted the leave the socialist utopia of the Arbeiter- und Bauernstaat, so who cares about them, right?
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Apr 15, 2020 13:45
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always murder nazi collaborators imo
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Apr 15, 2020 13:53
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goethe42 posted:Unlike the real left-wing/socialist party in Germany, the SED/PDS/Die Linke, which regularly murdered people when it was in power. But then, these people were obviously liberals, if they wanted the leave the socialist utopia of the Arbeiter- und Bauernstaat, so who cares about them, right? Exactly
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Apr 15, 2020 13:55
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die linke is about as much the SED as the SLD is the PZPR it's a part of the legacy, sure, but at this point it's basically just a smear
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Apr 15, 2020 14:00
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GABA ghoul posted:It's worth mentioning that Portugal's socialist government has actually decreased public debt more than Germany in the time it has been in power. It's really understated how much servicing the debt has completely hosed the southern countries, debt they mostly accrued while in the EU. Portugal runs a primary surplus for years now. More than half of Portugal's debt was due to loving ruinous PPP's and the bank bailouts, if you exclude that they would have a debt to gdp ratio similar to Germany.
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Apr 15, 2020 14:30
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V. Illych L. posted:die linke is about as much the SED as the SLD is the PZPR Not to mention that the SPD was also part of the SED and, depending on the state, quite voluntarily, too. Just looking on which party is legally the same entity falls a bit short and would also easily whitewash the fact that CDU/CDU/SPD/FDP were very welcoming to people with Nazi affiliations after the war.
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Apr 15, 2020 14:40
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Difference in ECB and US Fed 'rona action: https://twitter.com/pbergsen/status/1250378536063586304?s=20
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Apr 15, 2020 15:17
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what's funny about that is that all those billions are going straight into rich people pockets right now
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Apr 15, 2020 15:23
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the central bank is a Bad Instrument for this sort of stimulus precisely it's inherently biassed in favour of the rich just use fukken politics jfc
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Apr 15, 2020 15:28
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I have bad news about politics comrade V. Illych L.
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Apr 15, 2020 15:33
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| # ? May 24, 2024 05:07 |
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Politics is Verboten, I thought we went over that. The Technochracy knows best, pleb.
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Apr 15, 2020 15:38
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