Coronavirus 2021: I Threw Up On My Sheep

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Manager Hoyden: Mar 5, 2020

Vakal posted:

I bet with some clever re-classification they could get that number down to 20.

Ironically, the hospitals are trying to get the number up as high as it will go. The thinking is that the feds will bail out the hospital systems for the cost of plague treatment, so they want to demonstrate how many people they had to treat.

The bottleneck is testing as always.

# ? Apr 14, 2020 16:31

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# ? May 25, 2024 05:27

Ornamental Dingbat: Feb 26, 2007

numberoneposter posted:

seems to be behind a paywall

also wopo

and also seems to be from the opinions section

uhhhhhh??

Incognito mode:

WAPO posted:

Two years before the novel coronavirus pandemic upended the world, U.S. Embassy officials visited a Chinese research facility in the city of Wuhan several times and sent two official warnings back to Washington about inadequate safety at the lab, which was conducting risky studies on coronaviruses from bats. The cables have fueled discussions inside the U.S. government about whether this or another Wuhan lab was the source of the virus � even though conclusive proof has yet to emerge.

In January 2018, the U.S. Embassy in Beijing took the unusual step of repeatedly sending U.S. science diplomats to the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV), which had in 2015 become China�s first laboratory to achieve the highest level of international bioresearch safety (known as BSL-4). WIV issued a news release in English about the last of these visits, which occurred on March 27, 2018. The U.S. delegation was led by Jamison Fouss, the consul general in Wuhan, and Rick Switzer, the embassy�s counselor of environment, science, technology and health. Last week, WIV erased that statement from its website, though it remains archived on the Internet.

What the U.S. officials learned during their visits concerned them so much that they dispatched two diplomatic cables categorized as Sensitive But Unclassified back to Washington. The cables warned about safety and management weaknesses at the WIV lab and proposed more attention and help. The first cable, which I obtained, also warns that the lab�s work on bat coronaviruses and their potential human transmission represented a risk of a new SARS-like pandemic.

�During interactions with scientists at the WIV laboratory, they noted the new lab has a serious shortage of appropriately trained technicians and investigators needed to safely operate this high-containment laboratory,� states the Jan. 19, 2018, cable, which was drafted by two officials from the embassy�s environment, science and health sections who met with the WIV scientists. (The State Department declined to comment on this and other details of the story.)

The Chinese researchers at WIV were receiving assistance from the Galveston National Laboratory at the University of Texas Medical Branch and other U.S. organizations, but the Chinese requested additional help. The cables argued that the United States should give the Wuhan lab further support, mainly because its research on bat coronaviruses was important but also dangerous.

As the cable noted, the U.S. visitors met with Shi Zhengli, the head of the research project, who had been publishing studies related to bat coronaviruses for many years. In November 2017, just before the U.S. officials� visit, Shi�s team had published research showing that horseshoe bats they had collected from a cave in Yunnan province were very likely from the same bat population that spawned the SARS coronavirus in 2003.

�Most importantly,� the cable states, �the researchers also showed that various SARS-like coronaviruses can interact with ACE2, the human receptor identified for SARS-coronavirus. This finding strongly suggests that SARS-like coronaviruses from bats can be transmitted to humans to cause SARS-like diseases. From a public health perspective, this makes the continued surveillance of SARS-like coronaviruses in bats and study of the animal-human interface critical to future emerging coronavirus outbreak prediction and prevention.�

The coronavirus pandemic is too serious to let the president hold freewheeling press briefings in real time, says Post media critic Erik Wemple. (Joshua Carroll, Erik Wemple/The Washington Post)
The research was designed to prevent the next SARS-like pandemic by anticipating how it might emerge. But even in 2015, other scientists questioned whether Shi�s team was taking unnecessary risks. In October 2014, the U.S. government had imposed a moratorium on funding of any research that makes a virus more deadly or contagious, known as �gain-of-function� experiments.

As many have pointed out, there is no evidence that the virus now plaguing the world was engineered; scientists largely agree it came from animals. But that is not the same as saying it didn�t come from the lab, which spent years testing bat coronaviruses in animals, said Xiao Qiang, a research scientist at the School of Information at the University of California at Berkeley.

�The cable tells us that there have long been concerns about the possibility of the threat to public health that came from this lab�s research, if it was not being adequately conducted and protected,� he said.

There are similar concerns about the nearby Wuhan Center for Disease Control and Prevention lab, which operates at biosecurity level 2, a level significantly less secure than the level-4 standard claimed by the Wuhan Insititute of Virology lab, Xiao said. That�s important because the Chinese government still refuses to answer basic questions about the origin of the novel coronavirus while suppressing any attempts to examine whether either lab was involved.

Sources familiar with the cables said they were meant to sound an alarm about the grave safety concerns at the WIV lab, especially regarding its work with bat coronaviruses. The embassy officials were calling for more U.S. attention to this lab and more support for it, to help it fix its problems.

�The cable was a warning shot,� one U.S. official said. �They were begging people to pay attention to what was going on.�

No extra assistance to the labs was provided by the U.S. government in response to these cables. The cables began to circulate again inside the administration over the past two months as officials debated whether the lab could be the origin of the pandemic and what the implications would be for the U.S. pandemic response and relations with China.

Inside the Trump administration, many national security officials have long suspected either the WIV or the Wuhan Center for Disease Control and Prevention lab was the source of the novel coronavirus outbreak. According to the New York Times, the intelligence community has provided no evidence to confirm this. But one senior administration official told me that the cables provide one more piece of evidence to support the possibility that the pandemic is the result of a lab accident in Wuhan.

�The idea that it was just a totally natural occurrence is circumstantial. The evidence it leaked from the lab is circumstantial. Right now, the ledger on the side of it leaking from the lab is packed with bullet points and there�s almost nothing on the other side,� the official said.

As my colleague David Ignatius noted, the Chinese government�s original story � that the virus emerged from a seafood market in Wuhan � is shaky. Research by Chinese experts published in the Lancet in January showed the first known patient, identified on Dec. 1, had no connection to the market, nor did more than one-third of the cases in the first large cluster. Also, the market didn�t sell bats.

Shi and other WIV researchers have categorically denied this lab was the origin for the novel coronavirus. On Feb. 3, her team was the first to publicly report the virus known as 2019-nCoV was a bat-derived coronavirus.

The Chinese government, meanwhile, has put a total lockdown on information related to the virus origins. Beijing has yet to provide U.S. experts with samples of the novel coronavirus collected from the earliest cases. The Shanghai lab that published the novel coronavirus genome on Jan. 11 was quickly shut down by authorities for �rectification.� Several of the doctors and journalists who reported on the spread early on have disappeared.

On Feb. 14, Chinese President Xi Jinping called for a new biosecurity law to be accelerated. On Wednesday, CNN reported the Chinese government has placed severe restrictions requiring approval before any research institution publishes anything on the origin of the novel coronavirus.

The origin story is not just about blame. It�s crucial to understanding how the novel coronavirus pandemic started because that informs how to prevent the next one. The Chinese government must be transparent and answer the questions about the Wuhan labs because they are vital to our scientific understanding of the virus, said Xiao.

We don�t know whether the novel coronavirus originated in the Wuhan lab, but the cable pointed to the danger there and increases the impetus to find out, he said.

�I don�t think it�s a conspiracy theory. I think it�s a legitimate question that needs to be investigated and answered,� he said. �To understand exactly how this originated is critical knowledge for preventing this from happening in the future.�

# ? Apr 14, 2020 16:37

Sioux: May 30, 2006; some ghoulish parody of humanity

mike12345 posted:

https://twitter.com/jeremyphoward/status/1250041118135287809

Same kind of numbers in The Netherlands:

source: https://www.rivm.nl/monitoring-sterftecijfers-nederland

# ? Apr 14, 2020 16:43

AreWeDrunkYet: Jul 8, 2006

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1250063051182747651
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1250075668282576898

# ? Apr 14, 2020 16:44

Meme Poker Party: Sep 1, 2006; by Azathoth

lol what in tarnation.

# ? Apr 14, 2020 16:46

Meme Poker Party: Sep 1, 2006; by Azathoth

"Mutinies are fun"

- The President

# ? Apr 14, 2020 16:47

Shaocaholica: Oct 29, 2002; Fig. 5E

Can�t wait for nov when he goes off the deep end and tries to take over as emperor.

# ? Apr 14, 2020 16:48

sweet thursday: Sep 16, 2012

America is so hosed.

And so is the world in that case. Can't wait for the tweet about how Canadian freshwater actually belongs to American corporations

# ? Apr 14, 2020 16:48

bird with big dick: Oct 21, 2015

Rutibex posted:

i am willing to sacrifice pork and chicken if it means no more world wide plagues.

I am not

# ? Apr 14, 2020 16:50

Burt Sexual: Jan 26, 2006; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS; Switchblade Switcharoo

Manager Hoyden posted:

Ironically, the hospitals are trying to get the number up as high as it will go. The thinking is that the feds will bail out the hospital systems for the cost of plague treatment, so they want to demonstrate how many people they had to treat.

The bottleneck is testing as always.

wtf I�d like to think they want to report them accurately

# ? Apr 14, 2020 16:53

Yolomon Wayne: Jun 10, 2014; You call it "The Big Bang", but what really happened is; Grimey Drawer

Rutibex posted:

agreed. we can keep cows for milk/cheese, but nothing else. India figured this poo poo out like 5000 years ago. i am willing to sacrifice pork and chicken if it means no more world wide plagues.

pangolins are obviously right out

Absolutely not, no.
Not pork anyways, gently caress chicken. Its weak bird that cant even fly, but youre not taking the pig majestic away from me.

# ? Apr 14, 2020 16:53

Fatkraken: Jun 23, 2005; Fun-time is over.

Munin posted:

Any close contact with animals in unhygienic circumstances is a problem.

Close unhygenic contact with animals is why we have vaccines and no smallpox :science:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowpox

smallpox was possibly the most destructive virus in human history with an R0 of 5 and a case fatality rate of 30%, killing half a BILLION people in the last century of it's existence (in a world with a much smaller population than now)

(just arguing the toss, animal to human disease transmission is a huge deal as should be obvious right now, and eliminating animal husbandry and hunting altogether would bring nothing but benefits for myriad reasons)

# ? Apr 14, 2020 16:55

Nicodemus Dumps: Jan 9, 2006; Just chillin' in the sink

AreWeDrunkYet posted:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1250075668282576898

# ? Apr 14, 2020 16:57

Manager Hoyden: Mar 5, 2020

Burt Sexual posted:

wtf I’d like to think they want to report them accurately

Oh yeah I wasn't trying to imply they were inflating numbers or anything like that. I just meant that right now it is not in a hospital's best interest to try to downplay the number of infected, mainly due to the assumption that doing so will cost them money later.

# ? Apr 14, 2020 16:58

Xenocides: Jan 14, 2008; This world looks very scary....

AreWeDrunkYet posted:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1250063051182747651
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1250075668282576898

Trump somehow manages to see himself as a benevolent Captain Bligh.

# ? Apr 14, 2020 16:59

EL BROMANCE: Jun 10, 2006; COWABUNGA DUDES!
🥷🐢😬

Rutibex posted:

agreed. we can keep cows for milk/cheese, but nothing else.

Question: can I lick the cows?

# ? Apr 14, 2020 16:59

gary oldmans diary: Sep 26, 2005

Mozi posted:

yes but it would need to be more than a simple mistake - it would need to be a mistake that both releases the virus in an infected bat AND gets that bat into the wet market so it can infect a pangolin

whereas the simple answer removes all of that complexity with 'the bat in the market had the virus to begin with'

using the wet market location of transfer to humans as a given would make any other steps extraneous by default but if that labs research was focused on collecting and researching coronavirus strains from bats it would seem like a contender
this already feels like discussing ancient history

# ? Apr 14, 2020 16:59

Inept: Jul 8, 2003

sweet thursday posted:

And so is the world in that case. Can't wait for the tweet about how Canadian freshwater actually belongs to American corporations

when did we start talking about trudeau

# ? Apr 14, 2020 17:00

Rectal Death Adept: Jun 20, 2018; by Fluffdaddy

sweet thursday posted:

America is so hosed.

And so is the world in that case. Can't wait for the tweet about how Canadian freshwater actually belongs to American corporations

Yeah, really.

It's all well and good for Euros to sit around mocking dumb Americans and lusting for our downfall until there are destroyers shelling Wales because that, all of a sudden, makes sense to our collapsing government.

Hope you don't have anything we want.

# ? Apr 14, 2020 17:01

GolfHole: Feb 26, 2004

Xenocides posted:

Trump somehow manages to see himself as a benevolent Captain Bligh.

unfortunately its actually a good metaphor

# ? Apr 14, 2020 17:04

Hazo: Dec 30, 2004; SCIENCE

I enjoy that he specified the movie, because he can't read.

Great, now we're gonna have Fox News hosts explaining the story to their illiterate viewers and twisting fervently about how ACTUALLY Bligh was the GOOD GUY until we end up in a stupid debate about the meanings of a century-old novel while we all die.

# ? Apr 14, 2020 17:08

Raku: Nov 7, 2012; Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change.

Roll Tide

Hazo posted:

I enjoy that he specified the movie, because he can't read.

Great, now we're gonna have Fox News hosts explaining the story to their illiterate viewers and twisting fervently about how ACTUALLY Bligh was the GOOD GUY until we end up in a stupid debate about the meanings of a century-old novel while we all die.

Trump's second term: everyone gets one sip of water a day, but only if they work!!!

# ? Apr 14, 2020 17:10

Meme Poker Party: Sep 1, 2006; by Azathoth

Raku posted:

Trump's second term: everyone gets one sip of water a day, but only if they work!!!

On track towards "Third term: the flowers didn't bloom".

# ? Apr 14, 2020 17:12

GolfHole: Feb 26, 2004

Hazo posted:

I enjoy that he specified the movie, because he can't read.

Great, now we're gonna have Fox News hosts explaining the story to their illiterate viewers and twisting fervently about how ACTUALLY Bligh was the GOOD GUY until we end up in a stupid debate about the meanings of a century-old novel while we all die.

well i mean thats the worst part
bligh was the good guy

book, movie, history, no matter how you shake it

# ? Apr 14, 2020 17:13

pop punk: Jun 26, 2018

My republican mom in the Deep South called me mad at Trumps press conference just now.

Wow.

# ? Apr 14, 2020 17:13

Thranguy: Apr 21, 2010; Deceitful and black-hearted, perhaps we are. But we would never go against the Code. Well, perhaps for good reasons. But mostly never.

Trump is more Queeg than Bligh, about to say at any moment that he's proved with geometric logic that the economy must be restarted.

# ? Apr 14, 2020 17:16

Big Beef City: Aug 15, 2013

Ah yes, the Mutiny on the Bounty.
Well known for going so well for all concerned and especially for how well the Captain fared as a direct result of it. Very good.

Also of note how well states have mutinied against Federal law in the past and how well that all went. Also an excellent time had by all. Wonderful and am exceedingly looking forward to another go 'round with that.

# ? Apr 14, 2020 17:16

GolfHole: Feb 26, 2004

Big Beef City posted:

Ah yes, the Mutiny on the Bounty.
Well known for going so well for all concerned and especially for how well the Captain fared as a direct result of it. Very good.

Also of note how well states have mutinied against Federal law in the past and how well that all went. Also an excellent time had by all. Wonderful and am exceedingly looking forward to another go 'round with that.

the captain made it back to england, was hailed a hero, and the mutineers were hanged

have any of you even read this story before

# ? Apr 14, 2020 17:18

GolfHole: Feb 26, 2004

i dont know why im defending captain bligh here lmao

# ? Apr 14, 2020 17:19

Manager Hoyden: Mar 5, 2020

The only thing I know about Mutiny on the Bounty was the bunch of looney tunes parodies and I think that is probably Trump's experience as well

# ? Apr 14, 2020 17:23

Bloody Hedgehog: Dec 12, 2003; 💥💥🤯💥💥
Gotta nuke something

GolfHole posted:

the captain made it back to england, was hailed a hero, and the mutineers were hanged

have any of you even read this story before

drat your eyes, sir!

# ? Apr 14, 2020 17:23

Big Beef City: Aug 15, 2013

GolfHole posted:

i dont know why im defending captain bligh here lmao

Neither do we.

As "a direct result of it", I meant "having your crew mutiny and abandon you at sea", in general, isn't a favorable way to compare yourself to being a good leader in the short term during a time of crisis.

# ? Apr 14, 2020 17:24

GolfHole: Feb 26, 2004

Big Beef City posted:

As "a direct result of it", I meant generally "having your crew mutiny and abandon you at sea", in general, isn't a favorable way to compare yourself to being a good leader in the short term during a time of crisis.

oh ya for sure, sales 101 is "dont poison the well"

# ? Apr 14, 2020 17:25

shovelbum: Oct 21, 2010; Fun Shoe

The bounty mutineers established a wait for it here a pedophile island, makes u think

# ? Apr 14, 2020 17:26

Earwicker: Jan 6, 2003

Rectal Death Adept posted:

It's all well and good for Euros to sit around mocking dumb Americans and lusting for our downfall until there are destroyers shelling Wales because that, all of a sudden, makes sense to our collapsing government.

Hope you don't have anything we want.

#NoBloodForRarebit

# ? Apr 14, 2020 17:32

Cousin Todd: Jul 3, 2007; Grimey Drawer

Big Beef City posted:

Ah yes, the Mutiny on the Bounty.
Well known for going so well for all concerned and especially for how well the Captain fared as a direct result of it. Very good.

Also of note how well states have mutinied against Federal law in the past and how well that all went. Also an excellent time had by all. Wonderful and am exceedingly looking forward to another go 'round with that.

Do you just not know what any of the things you are saying mean? You are wrong about literally everything. You don't know the plot you are referring to, and there is no federal law in play here.

Why bother posting if you have no idea what you are talking about? You might as well have posted instructions you made up for unicorn hemorrhoid surgery

# ? Apr 14, 2020 17:39

Lord Decimus Barnacle: Jun 25, 2005; Hell Gem

pop punk posted:

My republican mom in the Deep South called me mad at Trumps press conference just now.

Wow.

Why was she mad?

# ? Apr 14, 2020 17:39

Xenocides: Jan 14, 2008; This world looks very scary....

GolfHole posted:

the captain made it back to england, was hailed a hero, and the mutineers were hanged

have any of you even read this story before

It actually ruined his career. Even his supporters at the trial said that the stories of his worst excesses were accurate. The Admiralty largely looked down on him as incompetent throughout the court martial. Some of the mutineers were hanged but many were acquitted. Oddly (Narrator: It was not that odd) it was the wealthier that lived and the poor who were hanged. Bligh went on serving but his career was pretty lackluster after that. He was made governor of New South Wales but an army revolt deposed him. He was really bad at the whole leadership thing.

Yeah, the metaphor is kind of uncanny and unintentionally accurate.

# ? Apr 14, 2020 17:40

Xenocides: Jan 14, 2008; This world looks very scary....

Rectal Death Adept posted:

Yeah, really.

It's all well and good for Euros to sit around mocking dumb Americans and lusting for our downfall until there are destroyers shelling Wales because that, all of a sudden, makes sense to our collapsing government.

Hope you don't have anything we want.

The response in the rest of the UK to Wales being shelled would probably be uproarious laughter.

# ? Apr 14, 2020 17:42

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# ? May 25, 2024 05:27

poverty goat: Feb 15, 2004

pop punk posted:

My republican mom in the Deep South called me mad at Trumps press conference just now.

Wow.

My WASP mom has lung cancer and is madly sewing cloth masks from old sheets and dishrags for the community and is beside herself that he won't wear a mask and encourage everyone to wear one

# ? Apr 14, 2020 17:44

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