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Holy hell gently caress that last battle sim fight, not only do you have to fight Bahamut but he gets to loving use SUMMONS so not only are you taking a beating trying to stay alive I had Ifrit just pounding my poo poo in as well. Boss used his megamove on me, Ifrit charges, congrats I’m dead. Awesome, that’s not even the final fight! It’s only the 4 out of 5th. Good thing you have to fight the 3 initial fights all over again to even get to that fight. Guess I’m leaving this for last after I clear hard mode so I have a ton of HP and MP up materia levelled up to maybe even have a chance of surviving the super move (I won’t. Cloud has 7000hp and still doesn’t), that fight is pure strain “gently caress you” from S-E and I don’t even wanna know what’s after it.
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Apr 14, 2020 17:22
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Someone freshen up my original FF7 memory: the Sephiroth we encounter during the game is not actually Sephiroth but a manifestation of Jenova, correct? Actual Sephiroth is encased in Mako.... somewhere? I can’t remember where you encounter it. Or is (encased) Sephiroth manifesting himself on Jenova and others? My actual question being: is FF7R’s Sephiroth’s the same deal? It almost felt like we were dealing with two versions of him: the one with knowledge of the future (appearing via whispers / reunion subjects) and then we have actual Sephiroth manifestation going through the motions of rescuing Jenova and killing Shinra.
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Apr 14, 2020 17:24
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The Black Stones posted:Holy hell gently caress that last battle sim fight, not only do you have to fight Bahamut but he gets to loving use SUMMONS so not only are you taking a beating trying to stay alive I had Ifrit just pounding my poo poo in as well. Boss used his megamove on me, Ifrit charges, congrats I’m dead. Awesome, that’s not even the final fight! It’s only the 4 out of 5th. Good thing you have to fight the 3 initial fights all over again to even get to that fight. Well to answer your last question nothing, that's it, the big optional boss for the game
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Apr 14, 2020 17:27
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Nail Rat posted:Well to answer your last question nothing, that's it, the big optional boss for the game The fight clearly states it’s 4/5 though. That’s a fake out? Just to clarify I’m not talking the VR simulator, I’ve done that one.
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Apr 14, 2020 17:30
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StealthArcher posted:Defeating a giant face with (1) Phoenix Down I was incredibly disappointed that after using Raise to KO ghosts through the whole trainyard, the ghost boss was immune to that trick.
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Apr 14, 2020 17:35
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Someone freshen up my original FF7 memory: the Sephiroth we encounter during the game is not actually Sephiroth but a manifestation of Jenova, correct? Actual Sephiroth is encased in Mako.... somewhere? I can’t remember where you encounter it. Or is (encased) Sephiroth manifesting himself on Jenova and others? If I’m correct it’s more like mako sephiroth projecting himself into those clones or whatever with the number tattoos, who are going around retrieving parts of Jenova. I think.
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Apr 14, 2020 17:48
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man nurse posted:If I’m correct it’s more like mako sephiroth projecting himself into those clones or whatever with the number tattoos, who are going around retrieving parts of Jenova. I think. This was the final explanation I think, yeah.
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Apr 14, 2020 17:50
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People were making references to someone recognising Cloud in Shinra HQ and referencing a Crisis Core character? Any specifics on this, because I don't remember this at all??Happy Noodle Boy posted:Someone freshen up my original FF7 memory: the Sephiroth we encounter during the game is not actually Sephiroth but a manifestation of Jenova, correct? Actual Sephiroth is encased in Mako.... somewhere? I can’t remember where you encounter it. Or is (encased) Sephiroth manifesting himself on Jenova and others? In the Remake, the Sephiroth that appears to Cloud is still presumably appearing via Jenova cells and talking of reunion. Instead of Jenova's body breaking out and picking up a disguise, they show the clones (dudes in black cloaks with tattoos) seemingly being possessed and appearing as Sephiroth carrying the Jenova body away. Which makes it seem like it's just original Sephiroth following his original path, but also with timeline knowledge? Tbf, some of Cloud's visions throughout the game are also of the future. And sometimes the fateghosts seem to be on Sephiroth's side, but his dialogue suggests the opposite. So basically nothing makes any sense and they've committed to nothing going forward.
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Apr 14, 2020 17:53
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VagueRant posted:People were making references to someone recognising Cloud in Shinra HQ and referencing a Crisis Core character? Any specifics on this, because I don't remember this at all?? On the floor with the combat sim there’s acutscene where a shinra trooper walks up the stairs, sees the party, and instead of attacking, says something along the lines of “holy poo poo, is that you Cloud? Everyone said you were dead! Hang on, lemme go get [character from Crisis Core,] he’s gonna flip his poo poo” and runs off, at which point cloud has another headache and says they need to get their poo poo in gear.
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Apr 14, 2020 17:57
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Now that I've had a few days to mull over things, I do have a couple of nitpicks: -I really don't like the way that from the very beginning it's all a false flag operation. I get that people are way more sensitive to bombings and acts of terrorism than they were in 1997 and they didn't want to make the protagonists too unlikable to the audience but it makes the gang look incompetent (I actually laughed when the first bomb goes off and it's so small and ineffectual) and Shinra too close to Joker levels of always being five steps ahead. Also it makes AVALANCHE's plan seem kind of short-sighted and weak, mildly inconveniencing Shinra by disabling their reactor core but leaving everything else undamaged doesn't fit at all with Barrett's bluster about the fate of the planet being on the line and Shinra needing to be stopped at any cost. I do think that the reveal and the way that it ties into the subplot about tensions with Wutai was quite good though. I think a good compromise would be if the first bombing went off like it did in the original where the reactor blows up but you don't get the huge amounts of collateral damage, Jessie's last-minute supply run is her wanting to make the next bomb stronger like in the original game because they've gotten cocky from their success, and then since Shinra is now aware of them and knows they're coming it's the second bombing that Shinra uses as cover to 9/11 Midgar and co-opt their attacks for nationalists propaganda and Jessie et al feel extra guilty and responsible for it since they know they went out of their way to make it stronger this time. -I'm not a fan of the combination of the game leaning into the anime trope of having characters be mortally wounded in a convenient bloodless way that lets them monologue and say their goodbyes for minutes on end and also not having these deaths stick. Someone being thrown off screen or falling and not seeing the body as shorthand for "this character could come back later" is an acceptable if overdone trope but it really lessens the impact of actual on-screen deaths when people get to say their goodbyes and wrap up their lingering interpersonal conflicts in the group and everyone else react to and process their death and then 20 minutes later they show up with some Band-Aids and a limp and are good as new. It gave me flashbacks to Goofy's death scene in Kingdom Hearts 2 only without the comedy.
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Apr 14, 2020 18:14
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With the whispers of fans wanting to hold true to the original dead, I'm pretty sure the rest of the remake is going to tell a story that will keep both new and old players on their toes while hitting a lot of the big set pieces and memorable moments from the original game updated in 202x gameplay mechanics, and that makes me real excited. Like we'll have the CPR minigame but maybe it's for something different, or Fort Condor turns into an actual like reasoning that sticks. It's neat and if I ever truly want the original I can fire up like sixteen different objects in my household to play it.
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Apr 14, 2020 18:28
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Fully down with the IDEA of them slaying canon and taking it in a bold new direction, but looking at how they actually handled the endgame I don't have any faith in their ability to do anything good with this newfound freedom. It's just gonna be Kingdom Hearts.Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:On the floor with the combat sim there’s acutscene where a shinra trooper walks up the stairs, sees the party, and instead of attacking, says something along the lines of “holy poo poo, is that you Cloud? Everyone said you were dead! Hang on, lemme go get [character from Crisis Core,] he’s gonna flip his poo poo” and runs off, at which point cloud has another headache and says they need to get their poo poo in gear.
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Apr 14, 2020 18:34
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SyntheticPolygon posted:I don't know how you can get through this game and come out thinking that the obvious love that went into everything was all a ruse and the designers actually don't care about FF7 at all. I don't agree with that assessment at all. Loving something and being very passionate about it does not mean you aren't capable of destroying it (and no, I'm not saying that this game is destroying FFVII. I'm just saying that passion does not necessarily equal good). You can pour a ton of love and passion into a project and still mess it up. Like Popoto said: Popoto posted:isnt a fanfic basically caring too much? Harrow posted:Whether or not that case was successfully made to you is down to your own experience, of course, but for me, I'm on board specifically because this part of the remake has earned my trust that it won't just be some Advent Children-level garbage going forward. I just can't get on board with what is being suggested by the end of this title with the ghosts and future visions and so on. I'm not saying that I don't think they can pull this off. They could definitely be planning something grand with all of this that still keeps VII true to the original while expanding and trying new things. But the feeling I get from the ending of this game is not "excitement".
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Apr 14, 2020 18:36
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I'm not exactly opposed to the whole 'we're throwing out the original and going someplace new and doing different stuff in the same setting' stuff, but the handling of it is not great at the best of times. And even then, watching stuff like folks in the ps4 thread or friends go "I never got into ff7 so I can't wait to see what I've been missing all this time", only to get something that not only expects you to know the original, but also just dumps big revelations on you with no buildup or context.
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Apr 14, 2020 18:37
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Psycho Knight posted:I don't agree with that assessment at all. Loving something and being very passionate about it does not mean you aren't capable of destroying it (and no, I'm not saying that this game is destroying FFVII. I'm just saying that passion does not necessarily equal good). You can pour a ton of love and passion into a project and still mess it up.
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Apr 14, 2020 18:39
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I'm kind of hazy on how history started drifting so hard that the Dementors needed to be out in full force in the first place, like did Sephiroth arrange for Cloud and friends to be strong enough to decisively whoop the Turks or for the Avalanche trio to survive without time cop intervention? Did he make Barret decide Cloud wasn't worth bringing to Reactor 5 until he was short handed or jog Hojo's memory? Did he plant like half a mile of explosives on the highway outta town because that one was just kinda random?
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Apr 14, 2020 18:46
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As for Cloud not going to reactor 5, in the original game Jessie's leg was still injured from reactor 1 (where a piece of rubble landed on her) and in this one she was fine for some reason even though the same thing happened. And then the ghosts showed up to make sure she sprained her ankle as she was supposed to.
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Apr 14, 2020 18:54
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I'm see a lot of complaints about the Rufus boss fight and I dunno I feel like I fought a completely different boss? I countered to do and that made it vulnerable and just wailed on it, put it to sleep and did the same and killed it. Rufus himself was insanely fun to 1v1. He had 4 Attacks/Movements before having to reload, more if he combat reloads, means you could either try and bait him to get into melee range to counter for big damage or block/dodge then get in to hit during reload. If you combo too long he counters but if it's during his reload he just dodges and reloads as you stumble meaning at worst it's a free reset.It was a fast and fun fight learning his tells and patterns and when he'd go for the reloads. The sword you get in Shinra Tower that gives you Counterstance also turns him into a complete joke. I did like 25% of his HP from one counterstance hit and follow up combo.
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Apr 14, 2020 18:57
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Nail Rat posted:Well to answer your last question nothing, that's it, the big optional boss for the game There is another https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyyxtCm9_00
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Apr 14, 2020 19:02
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Counterstance is really useful during the Rufus and Sephiroth fights, you do a shitload of damage with it.
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Apr 14, 2020 19:07
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VagueRant posted:And sometimes the fateghosts seem to be on Sephiroth's side, but his dialogue suggests the opposite. This makes sense. The fate ghosts exist to ensure the sequence of events remains the same. That means Sephiroth wins a lot of victories along the way, so they intervene on his behalf to help him win those short-term victories, which make them look like his allies. But he seems to be aware of the cycle and of their purpose, which means he sees them as an enemy, because eventually his destiny is to lose at the last second. Here's my theory, which some others have alluded to: Sephiroth/Jenova (as in the original, it's a bit unclear who's in control) are trying to change the events of the story in such a way that they ultimately win. They think the way to ensure that is for Aerith to live, because her being in communion with the Lifestream is the only reason Meteor didn't destroy the planet. Sephiroth can't just not kill her because the fate ghosts would intervene. So he wants the party to figure out a way to defy and/or kill the arbiters of fate, so that he can get what he wants. Obviously I dunno how yet - I'm not even sure S-E does right now - but I agree with the people who think Aerith is going to live this time, everyone (in and out) of game is going to temporarily celebrate, and then it's going to dawn on everyone that the real bad guys just got exactly what he wanted. That's the thing about the arbiters of fate that's interesting: as antagonistic as this game sets them up to be, and as much as people have made them into representations of overbearing fans or w/e, preserving the original timeline isn't actually a net bad thing. The heroes win, in the original timeline. Mako reactors shut down, people survive and learn to live in better harmony with the planet, and eventually life reclaims even Midgar. And if we're going with "the arbiters are the devs' representation of fans", Aerith dying is likely to be their blind spot because people have been asking about whether there might be a way to revive her or whatever the poo poo, when her death has always been an essential part of defeating Sephiroth.
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Apr 14, 2020 19:22
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Yeah, the thing I think is interesting about the Arbiter thing is that you're not defying a *bad* ending, you're defying a mostly *good* ending. That's something more interesting to me because so many good endings rely on a number of specific events that even changing one can leave you scrambling.
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Apr 14, 2020 19:27
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It could be possible that Aerith and Sephiroth are trying to pull the same type of gambit. They just have a different goals in mind. That would explain why they both are okay with the time ghosts going away.
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Apr 14, 2020 19:29
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No. 1 Apartheid Fan posted:This makes sense. The fate ghosts exist to ensure the sequence of events remains the same. That means Sephiroth wins a lot of victories along the way, so they intervene on his behalf to help him win those short-term victories, which make them look like his allies. But he seems to be aware of the cycle and of their purpose, which means he sees them as an enemy, because eventually his destiny is to lose at the last second. What I'm really interested in with the Whispers is that Rufus is specifically shown to be able to see them, even when Tseng can't. They're setting up something with some of the shinra people. Between Rufus seeing things he shouldn't be able to and Rude and Reno starting to turn on their boss, I'm wondering if the final team might include some more unexpected faces than just the AVALANCHE second stringers.
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Apr 14, 2020 19:30
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Blockhouse posted:There is lmfao at the after-fight stuff in this Chadley: [5 straight minutes of exposition about some really insane sounding cyborgery] Cloud: ... Cool.
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Apr 14, 2020 19:31
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I think it's going to be that Aerith lives, and then you have to go back and stop yourself from killing Destiny, so that she dies. Thats why the 3 guys you fight in the singularity are versions of you from a future timeline.
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Apr 14, 2020 19:33
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Honestly, there's no real indication of what they're going to change. I assume we'll have some choice though.Asema posted:did you misunderstand the ending or what I'm saying that FF7:RE is toying with fate / the original story being changed in a Kingdom Hearts-like, (lower-case) hollow fashion. What are you trying to say? don't answer
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Apr 14, 2020 19:33
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Azubah posted:It could be possible that Aerith and Sephiroth are trying to pull the same type of gambit. They just have a different goals in mind. This is what I'm thinking, because Aerith absolutely seems to know things about the future but she also wants you to defeat the Whispers so the group is free to challenge their fate.
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Apr 14, 2020 19:37
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Harrow posted:This is what I'm thinking, because Aerith absolutely seems to know things about the future but she also wants you to defeat the Whispers so the group is free to challenge their fate. One of the things that confused me about some of the trailers was how knowledgeable Aerith was. In original FFVII she didn't know much before leading Midgar and her character development is about her discovering her identity and becoming wiser. I guess if she can see the future this accounts for her starting off so much further than she did originally.
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Apr 14, 2020 19:42
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Wouldn’t be surprised if they’re setting up that Aerith lives but Zack has to sacrifice himself in her place somehow. Overall, I don’t think the whispers are supposed to be some sort of meta-antagonistic representation of “THE FANS NOT ACCEPTING NEW THINGS,” I think they wanted to diverge in some ways more than what you could excuse as just remake updates and also wanted an appropriately Big Deal final boss for this 40-hour first chapter, and came to the whispers as a way to accomplish both of these goals while also building anticipation and suspense at the idea that poo poo could go totally off the rails now, and also just engage in some fun bonkers stuff like “hey, what if Zack was still alive to see all this poo poo kicking off?” I would bet that while the rest of the remake/remix diverges in reasonably important ways, the overall shape of the story stays the same and hits the same beats, just not necessarily in the exact same way ad the original. Harrow posted:This is what I'm thinking, because Aerith absolutely seems to know things about the future but she also wants you to defeat the Whispers so the group is free to challenge their fate. I don’t think Aerith capital-K Knows that much more than she did in the initial game, actually, at least not at first - her behavior just doesn’t make sense if she has total foreknowledge of events. What I think is actually happening, to tie in with what she says about “losing more of herself every time [the whispers] touch me,” is that every time she encounters the whispers she gets an injection of OG Aerith’s memories, the same way the rest of the party does during the Harbinger boss fight, but they don’t necessarily make sense or have context. She has a bigger picture but it doesn’t fully make sense even to her. Babysitter Super Sleuth fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Apr 14, 2020 |
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Apr 14, 2020 19:42
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Aerith being so driven, determined, and knowledgeable was pretty loving awesome and I'd like to see more of that.
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Apr 14, 2020 19:44
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:Wouldn’t be surprised if they’re setting up that Aerith lives but Zack has to sacrifice himself in her place somehow. maybe there's enough death in the world right now and everyone will get to live 
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Apr 14, 2020 19:45
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Mechafunkzilla posted:maybe there's enough death in the world right now and everyone will get to live FF7R: Part 2 will mirror Mass Effect 2 and you can save (or kill) none to all of your party by the end.
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Apr 14, 2020 19:47
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^^^Not a bad idea for Northern Crater, actually^^^Happy Noodle Boy posted:Aerith being so driven, determined, and knowledgeable was pretty loving awesome and I'd like to see more of that. Did a really good job of making her confident in this game. The voice acting adds a lot.
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Apr 14, 2020 19:54
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I want Aerith and Tifa to dump Cloud's rear end and get together with each other. Sacrifice Cloud on the altar of saving the planet.
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Apr 14, 2020 19:54
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:
Oh yeah, this is what I meant. I don't think she has like full precognition or anything, but that she knows or at least feels something of what's coming and what her (and maybe the planet's) fate is. I like your reading that the Whispers are putting some of OG Aerith's memories into her mind, though, that makes a lot of sense to me.
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Apr 14, 2020 19:54
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Here's what I think will end up going down to keep a balance between the setpieces we know and new poo poo: - Eventually the party sits down, has a chat and realises Sephiroth kinda hosed them over getting them to kill the time janitors - They then spend a lot of time trying desperately to re-rail the plot using whatever Aerith can piece together, while Seph throws them constant curveballs - Aerith comes clean that she died in the original timeline and it was instrumental to the victory - Eventually it comes down to Aerith's death but Cloud resists it (perhaps despite Aerith's insistence) and resolves to screw fate as hard as Seph is - Things mostly proceed from there except with Aerith alive, she can bone Cloud instead the night before the crater assault, maybe she gets Scarlet's gas chamber too - During the ending poo poo inevitably goes sideways and Aerith tells Cloud it's not enough and I dunno I just sort of like the irony of the party trying to become the time janitors themselves once they realise they averted a GOOD ending. And also the idea of faking everyone out that Aerith might live until the very last second, which would recapture the feeling of the original death quite well. MarquiseMindfang fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Apr 14, 2020 |
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Apr 14, 2020 19:58
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:FF7R: Part 2 will mirror Mass Effect 2 and you can save (or kill) none to all of your party by the end. Part 3 replaces the Northern Crater sequence with a trinary ending choice that only changes the color of the lifestream that comes out to stop Meteor. Final Fantasy: Andromeda is rushed to market and ends up a huge disappointment to all.
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Apr 14, 2020 20:00
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The real problem with the ending is it comes out of nowhere and hijacks the plot away from all the interesting stuff.
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Apr 14, 2020 20:01
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:FF7R: Part 2 will mirror Mass Effect 2 and you can save (or kill) none to all of your party by the end. Send Cait Sith to be the second squad leader as he's so trustworthy and has ample experience as a battle commander. Barret goes in the vents to do hacking.
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Apr 14, 2020 20:08
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