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Brother Entropy posted:the villain of the week is a guy who murders corrupt politicians by handcuffing them to weather balloons So the villains are actually heroes; consider my expectations subverted.
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Apr 15, 2020 16:37
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Mister No posted:superheroes are just modern myths. the speed force makes as much sense as Achilles being invulnerable, except for his ankles cause his mom held him under water. In the Iliad, Achilles was killed by an arrow to the chest. The ankle thing is like the world’s best known fanfiction.
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Apr 15, 2020 17:19
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Achilles isn't killed in the Iliad.
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Apr 15, 2020 17:44
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Ugly In The Morning posted:In the Iliad, Achilles was killed by an arrow to the chest. The ankle thing is like the world’s best known fanfiction.
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Apr 15, 2020 18:20
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a lot of ancient stories, as best known by modern folks anyway, are composites of multiple different versions of that tale that once floated around together in the roiling sea of lit history sometimes key changes get inculcated by scholars to try and harmonize certain facts or address conflicts; another one involves hercules' ordeals since there were disagreements over the full list of feats he had to do so scholars merged the lists by introducing the idea that the gods decreed that a couple trials didn't count and needed do-overs, either because hercules had failed the letter or the spirit of the challenge
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Apr 15, 2020 18:23
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Really this is just supporting the "superheroes are modern mythology" idea.
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Apr 15, 2020 18:24
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yeah the very idea of 'canon' in regards to "the classics" is fuckin dumb. poo poo was created collaboratively building upon other people's earlier writings over the course of years, just like the Omegaverse and with even more animal sex
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Apr 15, 2020 18:49
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InediblePenguin posted:just like the Omegaverse and with even more animal sex Challenge accepted
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Apr 15, 2020 18:57
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Really this is just supporting the "superheroes are modern mythology" idea. Yeah it's such a fresh, fascinating insight. Clearly no one at either Marvel or DC or any other major publisher ever noticed. Why, if they did, they could just reappropriate existing gods oh wai--   
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Apr 15, 2020 19:00
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The drama around the name “captain marvel” will never not be hilarious to me 
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Apr 15, 2020 19:29
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Ugly In The Morning posted:In the Iliad, Achilles was killed by an arrow to the chest. The ankle thing is like the world’s best known fanfiction. yeah, this is true but also how many times have superheroes had their origins and deaths retconned? the story is more important than the character- like hell, Magneto should be like 90 but it's important to his story that he lived through the Holocaust, and Peter Parker was a teenager/college age kid for like 50 years for the same reason
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Apr 15, 2020 19:36
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Ugly In The Morning posted:In the Iliad, Achilles was killed by an arrow to the chest. The ankle thing is like the world’s best known fanfiction. Hector is killed in the Iliad. Achilles drags his body around the city walls and then they all have dinner.
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Apr 15, 2020 19:46
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Mister No posted:yeah, this is true but also how many times have superheroes had their origins and deaths retconned? the story is more important than the character- like hell, Magneto should be like 90 but it's important to his story that he lived through the Holocaust, and Peter Parker was a teenager/college age kid for like 50 years for the same reason I mean, being killed and brought back repeatedly, or at least the idea that it's possible, is a pretty common occurrence in a lot of mythology stories.
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Apr 15, 2020 21:18
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Something that doesn’t age well if you’re binge watching Gotham now that it’s over is how frequently people disappear from the narrative or an actor gets replaced. Harvey Dent just vanishes and never comes back because the actor left for a different show, they recast Poison Ivy like three times for some reason, and I could have sworn they replaced someone else too - Firefly I think? I remember just being like “uh wtf that clearly isn’t the same person” but tbf I did watch the entire show through a thick cloud of weed smoke Which is, incidentally, the best way to watch that crazy show. Penguin loving rules
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Apr 15, 2020 22:49
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rodbeard posted:I think the problem with movies like Ant-Man is that they try to explain things and look smart and that's what gets people thinking about how bad movies can be about following their own logic. This is a massive problem with "nerd" culture in general. A bunch of genre obsessed weirdos think more specific details and endless explanations are the basis of good story telling. A $100 million dollar spectacle movie is then discussed in critical terms over whether the scene where they show some fantasy tech is accurate to modern physics. One of the simplest condemnations of fanfiction as an idea is that a extremely common theme is for these fans to want to explain a plot device in graphic and technical detail when the original story used the concept and its effect on the characters as what mattered, not the inner workings and history of the device. Like Harry Potter has a yew wand with a Phoenix core, suddenly the fanon develops with "yew wood is good for wands for XYZ and phoenix feathers have ABC benefit then when joined it gives a gain of 2x against dark magic" and so on until a vague consensus is reached when the only point of those details in the book was their connection to voldemort.
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Apr 15, 2020 22:58
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pentyne posted:This is a massive problem with "nerd" culture in general. A bunch of genre obsessed weirdos think more specific details and endless explanations are the basis of good story telling. A $100 million dollar spectacle movie is then discussed in critical terms over whether the scene where they show some fantasy tech is accurate to modern physics. This is why nerds hate BSG in particular. They're all like "the ending sucked it wasn't sci-fi" when it's like no it's still scifi it's just there's angels and predestination instead of bad explanations for FTL travel and robot schematics you goddamn unimaginative idiots
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Apr 15, 2020 23:05
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I didn't like BSG because after a season and a half of tense build-up I realized the showrunners had no idea where they were going and central mysteries like the Cylons' plan were too built up to possibly pay off in any meaningful way. I recognized it before in the X-Files and after in literally everything JJ Abrams has ever done. "Mystery Box" storytelling can suck my dick. It never ever pays off. Hint to storytellers-- if you don't have the answers ready to go by the end of your second season/movie/major leg of storytelling, you don't have a story, you're running a confidence game. You don't have to provide answers, but you need them ready and you need to recognize when to pull them out before the build-up eclipses the satisfaction of the payoff (again, usually by the end of the second season/movie). By that point you have a core show/film franchise people still want to follow on the strength of its characters/world, or you don't. Look at Ron Moore's other big work Deep Space Nine. A core mystery setup in the first episode is what race of aliens Odo is from. They answer that question unambiguously by the start of the third season, and it's honestly not great. But no one minds. By that point we care about Odo and the cast and the show can transition from the mystery of Odo's parentage to the question of what he's going to do now that he's found out his people are dicks, and they answer that definitively by the end of Season Three as well. The show still gets a nice slow burn reveal and milks the audience expectation with false teases, but it also recognizes when to change gears and trusts in the actors and writers to find a compelling new evolution of the premise. It holds up even a quarter century later despite the production and action sequences looking like an expensive Sega CD game.
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Apr 15, 2020 23:22
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Arivia posted:This is why nerds hate BSG in particular. They're all like "the ending sucked it wasn't sci-fi" when it's like no it's still scifi it's just there's angels and predestination instead of bad explanations for FTL travel and robot schematics you goddamn unimaginative idiots Do...do you know what Sci fi is. I don’t particularly care about it but that is specifically not Sci fi. That’s magical poo poo which is like it’s own thing
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Apr 15, 2020 23:29
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TOO MANY GOBLINS posted:Which is, incidentally, the best way to watch that crazy show. Penguin loving rules I watched a season and a half of Gotham, took a break, and then realized I had no idea where I was in the show. Only that Penguin was awesome. He is, but I left it off there.
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Apr 15, 2020 23:34
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The moment that sold me on Gotham completely was in episode 15 when the Penguin and the Riddler meet for the first time. There's something about these versions of these characters that's just great. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnqZGg-uyv8
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Apr 15, 2020 23:46
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HopperUK posted:The moment that sold me on Gotham completely was in episode 15 when the Penguin and the Riddler meet for the first time. There's something about these versions of these characters that's just great. And then they made Penguin gay for Riddler (which was great.)
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Apr 15, 2020 23:55
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Former mod Troposphere spends a lot of time on Penguin/Riddler Gotham slash now
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Apr 15, 2020 23:56
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mind the walrus posted:Yeah it's such a fresh, fascinating insight. Clearly no one at either Marvel or DC or any other major publisher ever noticed. Why, if they did, they could just reappropriate existing gods oh wai-- i feel like there's two different insights being conflated here "Marvel and DC actively tried to position their works that way" is blindingly obvious, as you noted the fact that they've succeeded in giving those works the kind of cultural ubiquity that results in them being comparable to myth is a little less obvious and more noteworthy, though
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Apr 16, 2020 00:01
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Pick posted:Former mod Troposphere spends a lot of time on Penguin/Riddler Gotham slash now that rules
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Apr 16, 2020 00:03
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Brother Entropy posted:that rules
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Apr 16, 2020 00:24
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It was so dumb and contrived when (idk if anyone cares about Gotham spoilers) they had Riddler meet the ~perfect girl~ right before Oswald was going to tell him he was in love with him. She was such a jarring character that I thought someone was intentionally setting Riddler up and she was fake, like what happened with the mob boss guy and Fish I mean, the whole show is dumb and contrived, and the plot that came out of it was pretty fun, but just let them be gay damnit  They had such good chemistry
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Apr 16, 2020 00:32
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similar to superhero movies trying to be smart and explain stuff, is it kosher to complain about how it feels like a lot of movies feel like they're made with CinemaSins on retainer? the live action beauty and the beast has like a dozen scenes that needlessly explained things they didn't need to explain. I can almost hear that guy's voice saying, "where is Belle's mother? how do we know that Belle is smart if she isn't shown inventing something? how do we know that Gaston is brutal if you don't tell us his backstory?" on that note, all of the live action Disney remakes are very bad.
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Apr 16, 2020 00:33
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Now that we have come to this new progressive era, TV shows can finally tell you that characters are gay, which is why nobody loves them, and why they're alone
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Apr 16, 2020 00:34
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Mister No posted:similar to superhero movies trying to be smart and explain stuff, is it kosher to complain about how it feels like a lot of movies feel like they're made with CinemaSins on retainer? Lindsey Ellis has made at least one video along these lines.
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Apr 16, 2020 00:40
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CharlestheHammer posted:Do...do you know what Sci fi is. No, it's still science fiction, as it's still engaging with questions of technology and ethics and so on. It's not hard sci-fi sure, but very little is, and that amount gets very small when you get to film and TV. BSG fits just fine into science fiction, more than Star Wars does. If you have a very strict, hard definition of science fiction, then you could call it science fantasy instead if you'd like; but it was certainly on the right channel, and didn't pretend to be anything other than what it was. It's just nerds like you getting upset at genre fiction without having a critical background in speculative fiction that dragged it down.
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Apr 16, 2020 01:05
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BSG's ending sucked independently of the genre issue.
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Apr 16, 2020 01:15
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christmas boots posted:BSG's ending sucked independently of the genre issue. I'm curious as to why you'd think that. Everything lined up perfectly. The only omission (and it isn't actually in the ending proper) is is an explanation for why Starbuck knows how to find the Earths, which is adequately set up by the Cult of Daniel.
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Apr 16, 2020 01:19
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Arivia posted:I'm curious as to why you'd think that. Everything lined up perfectly. The only omission (and it isn't actually in the ending proper) is is an explanation for why Starbuck knows how to find the Earths, which is adequately set up by the Cult of Daniel. Something can suck for other reasons than 'didn't make logical sense'. I have plenty of time for angels and such but I hate that they threw away all their technology. Have fun dying of a tooth infection, I guess.
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Apr 16, 2020 01:37
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It's a classic thing those types of writers liked to do in the late 90s and early 00s-- "let's gently caress off with technology and get back to our roots!" Ok have fun working 14 hour days tilling soil and making GBS threads in a bucket. gently caress Star Trek: Insurrection
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Apr 16, 2020 01:45
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Pick posted:Now that we have come to this new progressive era, TV shows can finally tell you that characters are gay, which is why nobody loves them, and why they're alone It's nice that gay characters can be bitter and alone just like me.
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Apr 16, 2020 01:53
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You still see gently caress technology but it’s really weird in Sci fi that’s like the last genre it should be in
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Apr 16, 2020 01:56
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CharlestheHammer posted:You still see gently caress technology but it’s really weird in Sci fi that’s like the last genre it should be in I can assure you that gently caress technology should be most prominent in Sci-Fi because gently caress technology is the driver behind almost every major technological advancement in the last several generations.
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Apr 16, 2020 02:15
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Toshimo posted:I can assure you that gently caress technology should be most prominent in Sci-Fi because gently caress technology is the driver behind almost every major technological advancement in the last several generations. Yeah, like that gently caress machine in Demolition Man that made sex look like scrambled HBO.
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Apr 16, 2020 02:24
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mind the walrus posted:It's a classic thing those types of writers liked to do in the late 90s and early 00s-- "let's gently caress off with technology and get back to our roots!" I liked the DS9 episode where they started with that premise and then the community was run by a totalitarian luddite and life with technology was objectively better.
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Apr 16, 2020 02:25
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Plot twist: their future was our past the whole time. Thanks for making us rediscover vaccines and antibiotics because you guys got tired of your horny computers.
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Apr 16, 2020 03:04
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