UKMT April 2020 - The Betacoronavirus and the Virgin Atlantic

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT April 2020 - The Betacoronavirus and the Virgin Atlantic

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Chucat: Apr 14, 2006

Guavanaut posted:

That's how political processes normally work though; groups or individuals that represent large numbers of people (like Streatham CLP or Len McCluskey) get steered to expressing extreme dissatisfaction, write letters with the weight of numbers behind them, and hopefully change happens.

Yeah but the most telling part about what Len says (and why he'd get listened to) is...

quote:

Since Unite was by far the largest single donor to the 2017 election campaign, giving around 75% of total union donations, we have the right to expect an honest accounting for this.

# ? Apr 16, 2020 09:59

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# ? May 23, 2024 13:45

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Though I think that also represents a good reason to, as I suggested, try to organize campaigning and voting strikes. If your MP doesn't push for justice, threaten to put them out of a job by withdrawing your labour.

# ? Apr 16, 2020 10:05

feedmegin: Jul 30, 2008

Mega Comrade posted:

The whole thing is going to be a stain on labour for years to come, which is the mistake the right wing of the party made in this, they thought they could play their silly game, oust Corbyn and the Jewish members would just come back, but honestly I don't see that happening.

...do you think they care or ever cared about that?

# ? Apr 16, 2020 10:15

justcola: May 22, 2004; La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/15/hundreds-of-students-in-uk-sign-up-to-rent-strike

quote:

Hundreds of university students have signed up to a rent strike in protest at having to pay thousands of pounds for accommodation where they have become trapped as a result of the Covid-19 pandemic.

Many have complained they are stuck on near-deserted campuses where facilities and services have closed. Others say they cannot afford to pay because they have lost jobs vital to fund their living costs during their studies.

Among those caught up in the lockdown are international students from countries across the globe, including China, Japan, Pakistan, India and the US, who are stranded thousands of miles away from their families.

...

Elsewhere, students living in privately owned accommodation are finding themselves tied into tenancy agreements costing thousands of pounds, even though many have travelled home to be with their families during the Covid-19 crisis.

Students at the University of Warwick have also started a rent strike. While the university has waived rent and cancelled contracts for students renting on campus, many of those renting off-campus from private landlords are still obliged to pay, though many of the rentals will have been arranged via the university�s property management agency. A Facebook group in support of the strike has gathered more than 650 members.

I feel a lot for international students at the moment as they're paying through the nose anyway and now they're locked down. Haven't been too that many campuses but the one in Lancaster must be getting a bit Ballardian.

# ? Apr 16, 2020 10:23

Tarnop: Nov 25, 2013; Pull me out

OwlFancier posted:

Though I think that also represents a good reason to, as I suggested, try to organize campaigning and voting strikes. If your MP doesn't push for justice, threaten to put them out of a job by withdrawing your labour.

Lol my MP makes openly xenophobic comments, is now the shadow immigration minister, and my Starmer-nominating CLP treats her like she's the second coming.

And if she was put out of a job, then we get a Tory MP. Precisely the outcome that the people named in the report were so happy with in 2017.

# ? Apr 16, 2020 10:28

Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

goddamnedtwisto posted:

The main problem is that there are plenty of valid criticisms of the way identity politics is practiced, from it being used to divide and conquer by the right (see: TERFs being funded by anti-LGBT American evangelical groups) and also as a figleaf by the liberal class (Raytheon-sponsored Pride floats, "You're a sexist if you support Bernie over Hillary", etc) - but the anti-idpol left seem content to completely cede the ground to those forces and (in extreme circumstances) to Well Actually oppressed groups.

It might just be rose-tinted glasses but it seems like 60s/70s radicals were much better at allying themselves with identity-based causes, but it does seem like there's a lot of people supposedly on the left who get really loving angry at the idea that Black Lives Matter aren't pushing for the JDPON.

This is just my opinion but to me it seems there's a fundamental problem with anti-idpol in general and it's that people have identities. It's fine for me, middle class straight white male to be all anti-idpol, I have literally no opposition to anything I want to do. The worst I have to put up with is someone calling em a jock. But for anyone who is oppressed by society, i.e anyone who isn't a middle class straight white male, those identity issues are going to be a LOT more of a pressing concern than any high minded ideals about how it wont matter once the revolution comes.

# ? Apr 16, 2020 10:28

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Tarnop posted:

Lol my MP makes openly xenophobic comments, is now the shadow immigration minister, and my Starmer-nominating CLP treats her like she's the second coming.

And if she was put out of a job, then we get a Tory MP. Precisely the outcome that the people named in the report were so happy with in 2017.

And that sucks for your CLP but there are others that may not be in the same situation. And the point of making it the MP's problem (they are not generally fond of losing their seats) is for them to transfer that misery onto the people you want to get rid of.

# ? Apr 16, 2020 10:30

Darth Walrus: Feb 13, 2012

https://twitter.com/davewardgs/status/1250527367098961921?s=21

CWU's on the warpath as well.

# ? Apr 16, 2020 10:36

Tarnop: Nov 25, 2013; Pull me out

What's the typical success rate for strike action in which people threaten to withdraw their labour five years later?

# ? Apr 16, 2020 10:37

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Darth Walrus posted:

https://twitter.com/davewardgs/status/1250527367098961921?s=21

CWU's on the warpath as well.

This is the other thing, people are drawing battle lines up over this and I do not think it makes sense to just... opt out?

# ? Apr 16, 2020 10:38

Isomermaid: Dec 3, 2019; Swish swish, like a fish

OwlFancier posted:

I keep feeling there's some reason I'm not supposed to like Len and I can't remember why because I can only remember him being pretty right about a bunch of stuff, surprising for a union bigwig.

ISTR he had bad opinions about trans people?

# ? Apr 16, 2020 10:42

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

Jose posted:

lmao at the extremely low quality picture she chose

https://twitter.com/HackneyAbbott/status/1250688224248377345?s=20

It was the only one you could download from the app clearly.

# ? Apr 16, 2020 10:43

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

Isomermaid posted:

ISTR he had bad opinions about trans people?

Seems he signed a joint letter about the 'debate' on feminist issues that was pretty transparently written by transphbes https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jul/04/len-mccluskey-signs-letter-accusing-trans-rights-activists-of-intimidation

The article states that when called out on it he emphatically distanced himself from that part of it, but then one has to wonder why he waded in at all.

# ? Apr 16, 2020 10:48

big scary monsters: Sep 2, 2011; -~Ｓｋｕｌｌｗａｖｅ~-

If Abbott can see her way to staying a Labour member after all this then I reckon I can manage the same.

# ? Apr 16, 2020 10:50

goddamnedtwisto: Dec 31, 2004; If you ask me about the mole people in the London Underground, I WILL be forced to kill you; Fun Shoe

https://twitter.com/BBCTomEdwards/status/1250699913786204161

That's almost ten times the death rate of NHS staff.

# ? Apr 16, 2020 11:03

Camrath: Mar 19, 2004; The UKMT Fudge Baron

goddamnedtwisto posted:

https://twitter.com/BBCTomEdwards/status/1250699913786204161

That's almost ten times the death rate of NHS staff.

My housemate is a tube driver on the northern line, and he�s reporting something like 75% absentee rates- between sickness, quarantine and several deaths it seems like the whole thing is about to fall over. He�s been working seven day weeks recently.

# ? Apr 16, 2020 11:11

josh04: Oct 19, 2008; "THE FLASH IS THE REASON
TO RACE TO THE THEATRES"
_{This title contains sponsored content.}

Mugsbaloney posted:

Nagle? Really?

lol, loving nagle

# ? Apr 16, 2020 11:19

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

I literally only know her from like, one book about the alt right on the internet, the thesis of which was near immediately rendered wrong by reality afaik and that's it. I wasn't even aware she was a philosopher?

# ? Apr 16, 2020 11:21

josh04: Oct 19, 2008; "THE FLASH IS THE REASON
TO RACE TO THE THEATRES"
_{This title contains sponsored content.}

That's about the long and short of it. Published the book and immediately turned into a corncob, since then only seen in articles containing paragraphs like this

quote:

One of the talking points that didn't make it into the podcast was Carl Benjamin, aka popular YouTuber Sargon of Akkad, who stood as a candidate for Ukip in the recent European elections. Benjamin has made headlines in the past few months because of vile comments he made about Labour MP Jess Phillips, for which he is now being investigated by the police. The original offensive remark, which he has since doubled down on, was a tweet to Phillips saying �I wouldn't even rape you�, a comment that � much like the in-jokes that the Christchurch shooter's manifesto were scattered with � was specifically designed to play to the taboo-breaking, shock-tactic-taking, mainly young and male crowd that follows Benjamin, and spends much of its time on forums like 4chan and 8chan.

Nagle last year debated Benjamin at her old university, Trinity College Dublin, on whether classical liberalism is enough to rival the rise of identity politics. The whole debate, which is on YouTube, is well worth a watch, particularly because Benjamin, who calls himself a �left-leaning liberal�, doesn't actually seem particularly ideologically opposed to Nagle. He also comes across as polite, thoughtful, and intelligent.

# ? Apr 16, 2020 11:23

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

She's a philosopher in the same way I am a stunning specimen of physical perfection.

# ? Apr 16, 2020 11:23

Miftan: Mar 31, 2012; Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

Thomas Nagle is an actual good philosopher who wrote some interesting poo poo ("What is it like to be a bat?"), is that why people are getting confused?

# ? Apr 16, 2020 11:27

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

That's Nagel not Nagle!! :argh:

# ? Apr 16, 2020 11:28

Miftan: Mar 31, 2012; Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

Tesseraction posted:

That's Nagel not Nagle!!

gently caress's sake I confused myself as well. You're right, obviously. Anyway they're pronounced the same :colbert:

# ? Apr 16, 2020 11:29

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

Neigel?

# ? Apr 16, 2020 11:34

josh04: Oct 19, 2008; "THE FLASH IS THE REASON
TO RACE TO THE THEATRES"
_{This title contains sponsored content.}

https://twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1250729921288310785

an anakin/the younglings moment

an anakin/the younglings moment

# ? Apr 16, 2020 11:41

Miftan: Mar 31, 2012; Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

Ney-gel (hard G like in Ground), yeah.

# ? Apr 16, 2020 11:41

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

Miftan posted:

What is it like to be a bat?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9ZK_NjBoJI

# ? Apr 16, 2020 11:43

Crayfish: May 7, 2009

josh04 posted:

That's about the long and short of it. Published the book and immediately turned into a corncob, since then only seen in articles containing paragraphs like this

The beginning of that article seems more relevant tbh https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2019/06/28/1561722124000/Alphachat--Angela-Nagle-on-identity-politics-and-puritanical-internet-purges/

quote:

In the aftermath of the publication of Angela Nagle's 2017 book Kill All Normies: Online Culture Wars from 4chan and Tumblr to Trump and the Alt-Right, the Irish writer and academic found herself being the victim of some pretty vicious online attacks. But although her book had largely focused on the rise of the alt-right, describing how its taboo-breaking, transgressive troll-culture had managed to appeal to and draw in a whole new group of young people, it wasn't the Right who were doing the trolling.

It was largely the Left � a group with which she herself identified � who were attacking her. Apparently because she had dared to argue that it was the complacency, anti-intellectualism, extreme political correctness and virtue-signalling mentality of the dominant liberal culture that was largely to blame for the unstoppable rise of the online far-right, and for its ability to present itself as counterculture.

In many ways, the backlash against Nagle corroborated her argument that we live in a world in which identity politics reigns supreme, and in which speaking out against the status quo has become incredibly difficult. Indeed, since the book's publication, many of the rightwing figures who Nagle describes have been driven off the mainstream internet (and in many cases on to Telegram groups).

# ? Apr 16, 2020 11:51

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Guavanaut posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9ZK_NjBoJI

I feel like there's something wrong with me that I could guess what this was going to be before I clicked on it.

# ? Apr 16, 2020 11:51

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

In reductionist biological terms that I'm sure Nagel would dispute, I wonder if that bat could tell us something about the evolution of post-micturition convulsion syndrome (piss shivers).

# ? Apr 16, 2020 11:56

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

In which I simultaneously learn that piss shivers are a thing and apparently a thing that has a scientific term.

# ? Apr 16, 2020 12:01

thespaceinvader: Mar 30, 2011; The slightest touch from a Gol-Shogeg will result in Instant Death!

josh04 posted:

https://twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1250729921288310785

an anakin/the younglings moment

an anakin/the younglings moment

Jesus loving christ I knew my drift away from Star Wars as a fandom was happening for a reason but I wasn't expecting it to be this one.

# ? Apr 16, 2020 12:03

josh04: Oct 19, 2008; "THE FLASH IS THE REASON
TO RACE TO THE THEATRES"
_{This title contains sponsored content.}

Crayfish posted:

The beginning of that article seems more relevant tbh https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2019/06/28/1561722124000/Alphachat--Angela-Nagle-on-identity-politics-and-puritanical-internet-purges/

insofar as it (rather brutally) reduces her argument down to a thesis statement that is somewhere on the spectrum between spiked! and the alt-right, yeah.

# ? Apr 16, 2020 12:04

TACD: Oct 27, 2000

Guavanaut posted:

That's how political processes normally work though; groups or individuals that represent large numbers of people (like Streatham CLP or Len McCluskey) get steered to expressing extreme dissatisfaction, write letters with the weight of numbers behind them, and hopefully change happens.

The alternative is individual letter writing, which has the weight of whatever gsm paper you use and ends up in the bin, or hoping for some series of events that ends up with George Galloway parking tanks on Iain McNicol's lawn, .

Honestly it sounds like it would be easier and more productive to join the Conservatives and be a shitposting wrecker than to stay in Labour and try to be genuinely useful.

# ? Apr 16, 2020 12:05

Jaeluni Asjil: Apr 18, 2018; Sorry I thought you were a landlord when I gave you your old avatar!

Jose posted:

who called this yesterday?

https://twitter.com/soniasodha/status/1250695047026290693?s=20

Another Angry Woman:

Jaeluni Asjil posted:

https://twitter.com/stavvers/status/1250494931472351236?s=20

# ? Apr 16, 2020 12:09

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

TACD posted:

Honestly it sounds like it would be easier and more productive to join the Conservatives and be a shitposting wrecker than to stay in Labour and try to be genuinely useful.

The Tories deliberately structure their party so that all you can be is a (sometimes literal) corpse funneling cash to them though, with an occasional paid lunch where you get to meet Lord Twatt to talk about how the real problem with society is that we're not in the 1820s any more, but no way to influence policy unless you're a billionaire landlord.

At least Labour has groups like BAME Labour and LGBT Labour and JVL and the unions and so on that can throw a bit of weight at the process up top. (And now documented evidence of how poo poo the process up top was.)

# ? Apr 16, 2020 12:13

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

Jaeluni Asjil posted:

Another Angry Woman:

Our new Cassandra.

# ? Apr 16, 2020 12:14

Darth Walrus: Feb 13, 2012

TACD posted:

Honestly it sounds like it would be easier and more productive to join the Conservatives and be a shitposting wrecker than to stay in Labour and try to be genuinely useful.

Unite seems to be fairly on top of this, and they're pretty huge and influential within Labour. So are the CWU, who should be decent for getting the message out (ahem).

# ? Apr 16, 2020 12:15

EvilHawk: Sep 15, 2009; LIVARPOOL!

Klopp's 13pts clear thanks to video ref

josh04 posted:

https://twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1250729921288310785

an anakin/the younglings moment

an anakin/the younglings moment

I'm loving the impression that the comments by former staff is indefensible, with or without context, but the comments made by current staff is fine because of 'context'

# ? Apr 16, 2020 12:18

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# ? May 23, 2024 13:45

goddamnedtwisto: Dec 31, 2004; If you ask me about the mole people in the London Underground, I WILL be forced to kill you; Fun Shoe

josh04 posted:

https://twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1250729921288310785

an anakin/the younglings moment

an anakin/the younglings moment

So, looks like I need to find a new union - any recommendations for a grab-bag union for someone who loving despises the ones specific to their industry?

# ? Apr 16, 2020 12:43

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT April 2020 - The Betacoronavirus and the Virgin Atlantic

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