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Seams posted:Come to think of it, why was HBK the guy who Flair had his last match with anyway? I believe Flair requested it.
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Apr 17, 2020 00:37
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Breitbart Is Rightbart posted:What Foley putting over a young guy match do people prefer? Orton in 04 or Edge in 06? I've just watched the Orton match for the first time since it happened and it's probably the most lauded of the two. But the Edge one is really good. I prefer Orton both in terms of actual match quality and in terms of storyline 04 Orton was basically a pretty vanilla cocky heel and having to go into Foley's world really laid the groundwork for him having a vicious sadistic side to him later in his career HHH at the Rumble is great but he was already established as a top guy so it's not quite the same as the other two
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Apr 17, 2020 01:06
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The HHH/Catcus Jack series are about the only HHH singles matches I can stand revisiting
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Apr 17, 2020 01:08
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Seams posted:Oh for sure it's just that when I think of guys who Flair had a history with, HBK doesn't exactly spring to mind. Looking at the rest of the WM 24 card though it's hard to see who else could've replaced Shawn other than HHH who as Breitbart is Rightbart said already had a match. Most of the guys Flair had a history with were retired by that point, and Hogan wasn't working with WWE at the time. Aside from HHH, it's tough to think of a guy who would have fit.
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Apr 17, 2020 01:48
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Benne posted:The HHH/Catcus Jack series are about the only HHH singles matches I can stand revisiting I wonder if it burns Paul up that Foley has always been more over and beloved than him, and their matches are looked on much more fondly than any of his usual plodding "epics"
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Apr 17, 2020 02:00
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I feel like WWE has kind of buried the idea of Mick Foley being like a big deal. They treat him more as this kind of joke or loveable loser kind of guy or something. I suspect someone like HHH is very content to see himself and his title reigns and resume and powerful character as the "winner" and the love for Mick being a consolation prize for him.
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Apr 17, 2020 02:17
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If you ever were to ask Triple H if he would ever trade lives with Mick Foley, absolutely hell no never in a million billion trillion loving years
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Apr 17, 2020 02:17
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Well, only a masochist would go “yeah I want the life where I spent the first chunk of my career throwing myself backwards into concrete, the second chunk of my career throwing myself into barbed wire and nail boards and poo poo, and the third part of my career be defined by me throwing my body off of a twenty-foot tall chain link cage onto a table that, seemingly, had zero crash padding under it” From what I’ve always gathered, Hunter and Mick get along as human beings, because Mick is naturally lovable, but Hunter was always bitter that people point to Mick as the reason their series of matches were good, and stayed bitter until he became more an office guy and realized it was loving stupid to carry that sort of grudge I imagine he also got a little pissed that Mick got Orton over a thousand times more with one thumbtack spot than he ever did with like hours of ring time
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Apr 17, 2020 02:28
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I still sometimes think about Mick Foley asking Randy to spit on him but not the cold dismissive spit he had gotten the week before, he wanted proper spit. Respectful spit. Spit that came all the way from the sinus cavities.
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Apr 17, 2020 02:37
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STAC Goat posted:I feel like WWE has kind of buried the idea of Mick Foley being like a big deal. They treat him more as this kind of joke or loveable loser kind of guy or something. I suspect someone like HHH is very content to see himself and his title reigns and resume and powerful character as the "winner" and the love for Mick being a consolation prize for him. it's because WWE has been pushing for years that Triple H was the third biggest player in the attitude era after Rock and Austin when everyone knows it was Foley
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Apr 17, 2020 02:42
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I wouldn't take Foley's career over Paul's, either, so I don't really hold that against him. Wrestling is about making money, and Paul's been really successful at that.
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Apr 17, 2020 03:04
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Oh, I wasn't saying HHH should. I just meant I think whatever negative feelings HHH might have that Foley is more beloved than him is probably countered by him feeling like he "won". Which I think is a terrible and toxic way to view life. And that WWE feels like its tried to make us forget that Foley was up on one of those top tiers where it definitely places HHH. It probably makes more sense if I mention I equate "HHH" and "WWE" the same way many do "Vince" and "WWE" (which I also equate, its a trinity with Steph for me).
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Apr 17, 2020 03:12
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Hunter”s biggest financial influences have probably been Kevin Nash, Vince McMahon and Ric Flair so hopefully he’s learned some lessons
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Apr 17, 2020 03:13
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Lesson #1: Whatever Ric did, DO NOT DO IT
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Apr 17, 2020 03:18
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Randaconda posted:I liked Sid/Taker. It being the one true hoss off in 'Mania history probably helps, though. I'd consider Taker-Batista to be a hoss-off as well, albeit a much better one. What was the reason why Tatanka got replaced by Taker in the '93 Survivor Series match? Was Tatanka injured then?
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Apr 17, 2020 05:17
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rujasu posted:Most of the guys Flair had a history with were retired by that point, and Hogan wasn't working with WWE at the time. Aside from HHH, it's tough to think of a guy who would have fit. I can't even begin to imagine how awful that match would've been with Hogan instead of Shawn.
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Apr 17, 2020 05:54
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Hedgehog Pie posted:I rewatched Hogan/Slaughter recently and while I don't think it's a bad match per se, the entire angle leaves such a bad taste in my mouth that it seems much worse than it is. I mean, the climax is Hogan ripping up an Iraqi flag as people cheer. Pretty much. Hogan/Slaughter could be Omega/Okada-levels of in-ring work and it would be a loving terrible match because of how it was promoted. Like Vince sat down in the runup to Desert Storm and said "hey a lot of people might die, so let's make some money." There was a lot of Desert Storm media profiteering but this doesn't excuse it. Defiance Industries fucked around with this message at 06:59 on Apr 17, 2020 |
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Apr 17, 2020 06:29
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Admiral Joeslop posted:I can't even begin to imagine how awful that match would've been with Hogan instead of Shawn. Luckily we have TNA for this!
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Apr 17, 2020 08:27
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Since we're on the subject here's my definitive tier of Mania main events, chronological order Good Hogan/Warrior (I've never liked the 80s WWF style, but this is the perfect version of it) Shawn/Austin Austin/Rock II Brock/Angle Benoit/HHH/Shawn Edge/Taker Taker/Shawn II Bryan/Orton/Batista Brock/Roman I (easily the best match of their series even before the Seth cash-in) Fine Hogan/Andre (I'm tired of the Discourse on this one so let's just agree it worked as a pop cultural touchstone) Savage/DiBiase Hogan/Savage Hogan/Slaughter (the angle has aged poorly but I can't knock the work, for better or worse it got over huge) Bret/Yokozuna Bam Bam/LT (still better than you'd expect) Bret/Shawn (I've never liked the Iron Man match and will argue that WWE overhyping it as GOAT-tier has ironically hurt its reputation over the years. But it's well-worked with a clear story and feel-good ending, so it belongs right here as Fine) Austin/Rock I (way too much 1999 car-crash booking that instantly dates this, they obviously improved on it 2 years later) HHH/Jericho HHH/Batista Cena/HHH (Gets a bump for Cena's Chicago gangster entrance) Cena/Shawn Cena/Rock I Cena/Rock II (this series delivered exactly what people wanted and did record business, so match quality is almost beside the point. They're solid ***1/2ish affairs) Mediocre Hogan & Mr. T vs. Piper & Orndorff (I mean, it's a house show main event with celebrity stunt casting on the first-ever Mania. What do you want from me?) Sid/Taker HHH/Rock/Foley/Big Show (it's weird how 2000 is the consensus best in-ring year of the Attitude Era yet this was the Mania match they came up with) Brock/Roman II Becky/Ronda/Charlotte (perfect example of modern-era WWE getting in its own way. They had Becky/Ronda fall into their lap as the hottest feud in the company and an easy sell as the first women's Mania main event. Instead of just running with that, they added Charlotte and a second belt, which turned the story into a confused mess and diluted the anticipation. The actual match was very average and hurt by a botched finish, which we still don't know was a work or not since Ronda immediately hosed off. Points for historical significance, but this could've been so much better.) Brock/Drew (never had a chance in an empty building. Whatever you think of Brock, his matches always have a tangible buzz and big-fight feel, and without that live-crowd atmosphere it dies a death. I feel bad for Drew getting his career-defining moment wasted here) Bad Hogan/Bundy Hogan/Sid Hogan/Yokozuna HHH/Orton Miz/Cena Roman/HHH Roman/Taker (this was already a bad match, but could've worked as a memorable moment with Taker leaving his gear in the ring. But he never loving retired so this just looks stupid in retrospect) Benne fucked around with this message at 09:31 on Apr 17, 2020 |
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Apr 17, 2020 09:03
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anakha posted:I'd consider Taker-Batista to be a hoss-off as well, albeit a much better one. Isn’t that when Taker opened his coat to reveal a sort-of Confederate flag?
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Apr 17, 2020 10:23
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Pope Corky the IX posted:Isn’t that when Taker opened his coat to reveal a sort-of Confederate flag? 
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Apr 17, 2020 10:37
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That's the Betsy Ross flag and buddy they wont even let me gently caress it
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Apr 17, 2020 10:47
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Pope Corky the IX posted:Isn’t that when Taker opened his coat to reveal a sort-of Confederate flag? No? It was the Betsy Ross flag e;fb
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Apr 17, 2020 10:53
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I read a thing that according to Bruce Prichard, Undertaker didn't like the flag. Vince apparently wanted him to do it at all the shows, and then one day he shows up without the flag coat and tells Vince that it had gotten ruined, so he'd just be using his normal coat. edit: someone on reddit, so who knows: quote:According to Bruce Prichard, Undertaker absolutely hated the coat thing. Vince wanted him to wear it at every TV up to Survivor Series. Taker came to the next TV after this without it and Vince asked what happened to it. Taker said, "My dog chewed up the lining. It's the craziest thing. He only ate the lining. MrBling fucked around with this message at 10:58 on Apr 17, 2020 |
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Apr 17, 2020 10:56
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Bruce Prichard is famously full of poo poo so never take anything he says at face value
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Apr 17, 2020 11:04
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Prichard is the closest thing we have to Vince going on the record about stuff so if you keep that in mind you can tell when he's lying
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Apr 17, 2020 11:16
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Here in the UK, I've heard a surprising number of people confuse the Betsy Ross flag with the Confederate flag. I usually forget her name and just call it "the old American flag". I don't get why Taker had it as opposed to the normal flag though, it just looks weird. Prichard may be full of poo poo but that said, ALL-AMERICAN TAKER came completely out of nowhere and didn't fit him at all*, so I can imagine Taker himself being hesitant about it. It reminded me of when Warrior suddenly started wearing gear with the American flag on it whilst he was feuding with Slaughter, it made no sense and it made the "it worked with Hogan so it should work again" aspect of it all especially obvious and shallow. I don't know why Tatanka was replaced in the Survivor Series match. Maybe he was injured, but I imagine they also wanted to use the opportunity to build up Yokozuna/Taker. I'm glad they did, because the one redeeming part of that whole match is Taker no-selling getting his head slammed into the ring steps and Yoko making a  face.* Insert Bikertaker comment.
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Apr 17, 2020 12:49
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I know what the Betsy Ross flag looks like, for some reason I remembered it as one of the alternate designs for the Confederate flag.
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Apr 17, 2020 13:14
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Hedgehog Pie posted:Here in the UK, I've heard a surprising number of people confuse the Betsy Ross flag with the Confederate flag. I usually forget her name and just call it "the old American flag". I don't get why Taker had it as opposed to the normal flag though, it just looks weird. The Undertaker is really old ok, so he has an old flag. He's supposed to be a like old time cowboy mortician or something.
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Apr 17, 2020 13:19
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Pope Corky the IX posted:I know what the Betsy Ross flag looks like, for some reason I remembered it as one of the alternate designs for the Confederate flag. The only difference is the CSA flag had 3 stripes instead of 13. They're easy to get confused, esp when trying to remember old stuff like that. Flip side: I never knew this happened, and it all sounds stupid as hell.
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Apr 17, 2020 13:36
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Hedgehog Pie posted:Here in the UK, I've heard a surprising number of people confuse the Betsy Ross flag with the Confederate flag. I usually forget her name and just call it "the old American flag". I don't get why Taker had it as opposed to the normal flag though, it just looks weird. A minority of Americans get really weird about people "wearing" the actual flag. Don't really know why but nationalism is poison so whatever, no point looking for rational reasoning there.
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Apr 17, 2020 13:51
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It goes back to the official rules of the American flag, which were drilled into my head back when I was in Boy Scouts. You're not supposed to "wear" the flag in any way, it's never supposed to touch the ground, it can only be disposed of by burning it, etc.
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Apr 17, 2020 13:59
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Pope Corky the IX posted:It goes back to the official rules of the American flag, which were drilled into my head back when I was in Boy Scouts. You're not supposed to "wear" the flag in any way, it's never supposed to touch the ground, it can only be disposed of by burning it, etc. And yet some lawmakers wanted to ban flag burning. Tut tut.
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Apr 17, 2020 14:05
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forkboy84 posted:And yet some lawmakers wanted to ban flag burning. Tut tut. It scores easy points with flag humpers and it seems weirdly common for politicians to have poor working knowledge of the law
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Apr 17, 2020 17:01
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Whipping up support with an issue you never have to deliver on demonstrates a very good working knowledge of the law!
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Apr 17, 2020 17:51
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Halloween Jack posted:Whipping up support with an issue you never have to deliver on demonstrates a very good working knowledge of the law! I think it's a better demonstration of contempt for the public
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Apr 17, 2020 18:06
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I am watching the latest Zack and Curt Wrestling Figures podcast, and they open with a in memoriam for Howard Finkel, and Gallows and Anderson said they will stop doing their parody of him because they loved and respected him so much. Adding to that the grief and respect shown by fans. So he was clearly "well liked backstage"(tm) as well being loved and respected by fans. This got me thinking, who was the opposite? As in, who was a big, famous wrestling star who when they died the response was "good, gently caress that guy!" from either the wrestlers who knew/worked with him and/or the fans? And a similar question, who do you think will be that guy when they eventually pop their clogs? I can't see many people crying real tears for Hogan when "god lays some heavy poo poo on him".
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Apr 18, 2020 06:00
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Wrestling is a notoriously insular community that largely avoids real scrutiny from mainstream media that doesn't take wrestling seriously. I can't imagine many people will get that reaction no matter what horrible poo poo they did. Hogan will be absolutely canonized the day he croaks and you're delusional if you think otherwise.
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Apr 18, 2020 06:08
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BrigadierSensible posted:I am watching the latest Zack and Curt Wrestling Figures podcast, and they open with a in memoriam for Howard Finkel, and Gallows and Anderson said they will stop doing their parody of him because they loved and respected him so much. Adding to that the grief and respect shown by fans. If Ultimate Warrior had croaked a few years earlier the narrative would’ve been much different. Lucky for him he became an offical WWE Legend right before his death so according to WWE he was Always Good
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Apr 18, 2020 06:16
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It was cool and good when AJ Styles was murdered and no one cared
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Apr 18, 2020 06:18
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