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Mr. Pizza posted:How did Ruth Chris get the loan when they have 5000 employees 
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Apr 17, 2020 16:11
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| # ? Jun 3, 2024 16:24 |
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Cmon trump open the economy so I can spend my trumpbux! Flip the switch! I am at my front door posed like an olympic sprinter on the starting line waiting to run down to olive garden for unlimited soup and breadsticks!
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Apr 17, 2020 16:11
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Looks like the OPEC+ cuts are working, what with $18 oil! TRUMP!
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Apr 17, 2020 16:12
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Mr. Pizza posted:How did Ruth Chris get the loan when they have 5000 employees Each location probably filed separately.
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Apr 17, 2020 16:13
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What people don't get is that functionally a decrease of 10-20% in business for a majority of industries is a death sentence since almost everyone is month to month on making debt payment. You can "reopen the country" all you want but this just means the collapse happens in 6-9 months instead of 2 months because you can't just magically make all those unemployed folks have the income they did with our current system. Everyone is so leveraged. A gust of wind collapses a house of cards the same as an atomic bomb does. The government can't force people to go back to eating out, vacationing, doing yoga classes at pre Covid levels.
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Apr 17, 2020 16:16
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Flavius Aetass posted:the "invisible hand" or just-world fallacy? Just world fallacy is when you say you don't need a theodicy ( or, marketdicy) since bad things do not in fact happen to good people Different kind of failure
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Apr 17, 2020 16:16
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Mr. Pizza posted:How did Ruth Chris get the loan when they have 5000 employees small business has different meanings in different industries, individual franchises of a larger company are their own "company", etc. essentially most businesses now are classified as "small businesses". it's why politicians are constantly talking about helping small businesses and encouraging entrepreneurship, it's not because they actually care about Mom and Pop's General Store.
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Apr 17, 2020 16:16
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https://splash247.com/liner-bankrup...he-coronavirus/ https://splash247.com/liner-bankrup...evels-recorded/ Holy hell the scores they quote are for December 2019. Container shipping is going to collapse. I’m not real happy about being right. This motherfucker isn’t priced in. This is the end of the global economy.
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Apr 17, 2020 16:16
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Mr. Pizza posted:How did Ruth Chris get the loan when they have 5000 employees 
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Apr 17, 2020 16:18
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Bar Ran Dun posted:https://splash247.com/liner-bankrup...he-coronavirus/ E: To be clear, I mean they don't work, the content is also probably hosed up but I can't view it 
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Apr 17, 2020 16:19
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Bar Ran Dun posted:https://splash247.com/liner-bankrup...he-coronavirus/ Bad links
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Apr 17, 2020 16:20
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Frosted Flake posted:My wife cried to the point of sobbing after watching the Pruitt-Igoe Myth yesterday because she wasn’t able to reconcile her belief in free-market housing solution vouchers or whatever with redlining and segregation. now send her this https://timeline.com/history-tulsa-race-massacre-a92bb2356a69
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Apr 17, 2020 16:23
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comedyblissoption posted:i think belief in markets is like belief in god(s) Market fundamentalism
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Apr 17, 2020 16:25
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TMMadman posted:Why do people constantly blame the system for the failings of the people in regards to socialism, but never ever blame the capitalist system when it shows it's obvious flaws and move right into saying that the people are failing capitalism? Because accepting the current system pays the bills.
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Apr 17, 2020 16:26
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oxsnard posted:What people don't get is that functionally a decrease of 10-20% in business for a majority of industries is a death sentence since almost everyone is month to month on making debt payment. You can "reopen the country" all you want but this just means the collapse happens in 6-9 months instead of 2 months because you can't just magically make all those unemployed folks have the income they did with our current system. Everyone is so leveraged. A gust of wind collapses a house of cards the same as an atomic bomb does. but what about the economy switch under the oval office desk?
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Apr 17, 2020 16:28
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TACD posted:Those links are hosed up let’s try that again https://splash247.com/liner-bankruptcy-potential-spreads-in-step-with-the-coronavirus/ https://splash247.com/liner-bankruptcy-potential-at-highest-levels-recorded/
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Apr 17, 2020 16:29
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Gio posted:but what about the economy switch under the oval office desk?
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Apr 17, 2020 16:30
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I believe Cato Wife can be saved. It must be honestly very hard to be confronted like this when her whole life she has been taught to believe in right wing economic theory. Not just as the most effective form of economics but also the best one morally. Her crying and changing the subject is clearly the clash between her entire lifes upbringing and the factual outcome of those beliefs being applied in the real world.
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Apr 17, 2020 16:33
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uncop posted:Yeah when I speak of something like "unfortunate keynesian assumptions" in MMT, on the top of the list is the assumption that inflation simply doesn't accelerate before full utilization of available labor power. Milton Friedman politically wrecked that assumption when he developed the idea that for that assumption to be true but the 70's stagflation event to also be real, there must be lots of people who only pretend to be available for the labor market. It's neokeynesian poison now, and there's a reason you don't hear MMT people talk about the 70's much. I'm pretty sure there exist tons of MMT takes on the 70s, Bill Mitchell supposedly still writes five pages of hardly readable MMT agitprop per day, , but I haven't really followed the discussion in 5 years and my memory is hazy. As I said, I'm not 100% on top of this but I don't think "inflation simply doesn't accelerate before full utilization of available labor power" is something a MMT guy would state without qualifications. Like, I'm pretty sure an agricultural country that suffers a major drought and tries to import enough food to feed it's people while the balance of payments collapses would lead to accelerating inflation, even in a MMT framework. uncop posted:To be fair, less keynesian MMTers like Bill Mitchell don't really act as if that assumption was true and are clear that full employment would be theoretically made possible through an employment buffer stock that's built to be an alternative to the friedmanite unemployment buffer stock: a deliberately worse alternative to market employment that people would seek to immediately escape into the arms of a regular capitalist exploiter once there are jobs available on the market. Mitchell paints it as leftist mainly on the social inclusion aspect of having work to do and the idea of pushing market employment to be better by raising the floor of job alternatives. I'm not sure I follow. As far as I'm aware the core of the MMT policy proposal is the employment buffer stock. And while I'm kind of wary of the implicit glorification of wage labor I don't see how the effect of such a program, if it is not super exploitative, would be inherently more revolutionary than a higher minimum wage. Would 15$ or 20$ minimum wage slowly liquidate the bourgeoisie?
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Apr 17, 2020 16:34
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oxsnard posted:What people don't get is that functionally a decrease of 10-20% in business for a majority of industries is a death sentence since almost everyone is month to month on making debt payment. You can "reopen the country" all you want but this just means the collapse happens in 6-9 months instead of 2 months because you can't just magically make all those unemployed folks have the income they did with our current system. Everyone is so leveraged. A gust of wind collapses a house of cards the same as an atomic bomb does.
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Apr 17, 2020 16:35
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Zeno-25 posted:Market fundamentalism is strong
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Apr 17, 2020 16:37
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pnumoman posted:drat, you two either love the poo poo outta each other or you both have some drat good firewalls between your relationship and your beliefs. do be fair, housing policy is probably the single hardest problem there is in the world, politically. I spent years doing foreclosure and eviction work and saw the horrible parts of it, but also did census work in row houses and high rise projects in Cabrini Green ( i lived in the govt enforced mixed income apartments next door to the high rises) just building public housing ends up with cabrini/robert taylor homes. just saying nationalize housing doesnt answer who gets the house with the dock on the lakefront and the great view. vouchers don't work. densification doesn't work. dedensification doesn't work (unless we go ubi + telework). dachas reserved for only the party elite doesn't work. there'no loving answer and i hate it
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Apr 17, 2020 16:43
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Apr 17, 2020 16:50
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Crazycryodude posted:Turning CATO Wife into a Marxist or dying in the attempt seems like a worthy cause, please continue Cup Runneth Over posted:You're going to give your wife a mental breakdown dude. She's going to quit her job and wallow in depression because all the institutions she believed in have been lying to her her whole life. I have no idea which of these is more likely if I “win”, but I have no idea how I’d even get there. Like someone posted a few days ago, it has to be annoying as poo poo to be a PhD that has been celebrated as the best and brightest since high school and have your dumbass husband try to argue with you. She’s had a lot of academic and professional success, and I guess each one of those “wins” solidifies these positions and underlying assumptions. Those are qualities I love about her, I just wish she had used them for medicine or sabermetrics or botany. Meanwhile, I have no idea how to think or present arguments at that level. I don’t even mean to someone I’m married to, I mean I just finished Socialism: A Very Short Introduction and ABCs of Socialism because I have no schooling in this stuff. I’m sure it feels like an Egyptologist whose husband suddenly has very strong heterodox opinions on the field, halfway to being a Hotep. I’m proud that from the advice and reading sparked from the thread, while I’m not able to convince her (since I don’t have a MA, let alone a PhD), I’m at least able to get her to an impasse. I wish it didn’t upset her so much, maybe I need to use a different rhetorical style. I also wish I was smarter because it seems like Dialectical Materialism is a good counterweight to right wing and libertarian “talking points” which are not that rhetorically convincing to me. They almost seem like they’re only convincing if you already believe in them. atelier morgan posted:Fundamentally if you keep forcing her to see the cruelty she supports like you just did she'll either change her beliefs or discard her empathy and in the latter case best to find out croup coughfield posted:start hiding money cato wife guy because this only ends the one way This is kind of my worst case. I don’t this to turn into an E/N thing, but does anyone have experience with right wing family or SOs? How does this usually play out? She’s smart and sophisticated and always presented this as an issue of differing opinions. I mean, it took a lot to get her to admit she even had and ideology. The posters who said that from her perspective her beliefs reflect the natural order of things have it exactly right. It’s not like arguing with MAGA dipshits. They know they are being transgressive, and are proud of it. Fundies know they are arguing from a position of faith. Alt-right people are aware that they are espousing an ideology. I just don’t know. Parents, don’t send your kids to Georgetown.
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Apr 17, 2020 16:50
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Frosted Flake posted:My wife cried to the point of sobbing after watching the Pruitt-Igoe Myth yesterday because she wasn’t able to reconcile her belief in free-market housing solution vouchers or whatever with redlining and segregation.
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Apr 17, 2020 16:54
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mastershakeman posted:do be fair, housing policy is probably the single hardest problem there is in the world, politically. I spent years doing foreclosure and eviction work and saw the horrible parts of it, but also did census work in row houses and high rise projects in Cabrini Green ( i lived in the govt enforced mixed income apartments next door to the high rises) this is stupid as hell, we have tons of homeless people and you're worried about "who gets the house with the dock" "sure foreclosures and evictions are bad but" just stop there
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Apr 17, 2020 16:57
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Gazpacho posted:what do you hope to accomplish I don’t know. This all started when the economy went to poo poo and she started talking about work more at home, and didn’t have pat answers for everything. I can see she’s conflicted, even if I wasn’t doing anything. I guess I hope to reconcile who she is with what she believes. It’s got to be anguishing to have those kinds of contradictions and ideological inconsistencies. I want her to be happy, but knowing the power entrusted to her, I want also her to work towards human happiness. Without getting divorced. Sole Fide whatever, I want her to do good in the world. Frosted Flake fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Apr 17, 2020 |
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Apr 17, 2020 17:02
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Doomsday Economics: Liberate Me From Opening Bell Or: La Opening Bell Dame Sans Merci
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Apr 17, 2020 17:04
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Frosted Flake posted:This is kind of my worst case. I don’t this to turn into an E/N thing, but does anyone have experience with right wing family or SOs? How does this usually play out? The conservative parts of my family have a hard time parsing and understanding my beliefs. They know I'm not conservative but I also hate the democrats???? How can this be??? So we end up just not talking about it or just talking about how bad the Democrats are.
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Apr 17, 2020 17:04
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honestly it sounds like you're doing the best you can? come at it from a place of love but also hard truths. maybe she can channel the confusion into fury that she, clearly Intelligent And Rational, has been bamboozled by people her entire life. it's fundamentally conflict heavy but again, if y'all have the strength of personal connection you describe, that's more of a... challenge than a crisis also it's ok to not have a master's or phd obviously that has nothing to do with your ability to talk through things.
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Apr 17, 2020 17:04
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Frosted Flake posted:Well, basically: "This public housing is inefficient and its residents poor and dependent, we must destroy it and let the market figure it out!" *market demolishes building, putting hundreds on the streets, then leave lot vacant for 80 years* yeah it's gonna be hard to reconcile that the market wasn't just acting to destroy affordable housing options and drive undesirables out of their investment regions. That's the market-friendly solution, just like our status quo lol. Market obsessed people are getting exactly what they want with the status quo of homelessness and misery and they need to just loving accept it, they'd be a lot happier
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Apr 17, 2020 17:08
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and I keep thinking there will be catharsis or at least a win since she’s a dispassionate expert who should be swayed by evidence and reason alone.
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Gio posted:but what about the economy switch under the oval office desk? Trump replaced the "Make Economy Go" button with a Diet Coke button
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Apr 17, 2020 17:09
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WampaLord posted:this is stupid as hell, we have tons of homeless people and you're worried about "who gets the house with the dock" so the billionaires who took out mortgages at .1% interest on mega million mansions that cover a city block in a desirable neighborhood , thats cool to forgive so long as some people in slums get to stay put while their landlord doesnt bother fixing the broken stairs? ok cool this is actually a much different argument than 'so what, do billionaires get free college' because of being able to physically control locations even if tax dollars on capital gains suddenly paid for everyone's mortgage+property tax
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Apr 17, 2020 17:09
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mastershakeman posted:so the billionaires who took out mortgages at .1% interest on mega million mansions that cover a city block in a desirable neighborhood , thats cool to forgive so long as some people in slums get to stay put while their landlord doesnt bother fixing the broken stairs? ok cool Wait, do you think Billionaires actually take out mortgages?
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Apr 17, 2020 17:11
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mastershakeman posted:so the billionaires who took out mortgages at .1% interest on mega million mansions that cover a city block in a desirable neighborhood , thats cool to forgive so long as some people in slums get to stay put while their landlord doesnt bother fixing the broken stairs? ok cool yes, it's better to live in slums with broken stairs then to be homeless, this isn't a complicated judgement to make we have vacant homes and yet homeless people
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Apr 17, 2020 17:12
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tbh just go really slow with her or she'll just pretend around you and do the same things and believe the same things anyway. people have to figure their own beliefs out you just give them the tools to do so
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Apr 17, 2020 17:12
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you usually can get even pretty right wing economists to agree that land rent is a rent. go give catowife progress and poverty
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Apr 17, 2020 17:13
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:i like reading these posts. they give me some hope. for reference my own wife is very, very left-libertarian, bordering on anarchist. she has an instinctive distrust of any kind of state power, especially censorship, because she and her family had to flee an oppressive us-backed right wing dictatorship in the Global South to come here (i feel like it's a damning indictment of our history that even that degree of detail doesn't really identify her country of origin with any specificity). the point is, she's very left, but she's instinctively distrustful of the kind of sweeping state action that a leftist program would necessarily involve. we get into arguments all the time about some policy that she thinks is "too far" but I see as necessary for the left to make progress. She's still stuck on "the government should leave us alone, we should self-organize into little socialist communes" which is just not workable, especially as Step 1. pretty much every anarchist has anxiety about how their ideal world comes about without sweeping state-level reforms leveraged with a monopoly on state violence. Only the Posadists really have it all figured out or at least are honest about it mastershakeman posted:do be fair, housing policy is probably the single hardest problem there is in the world, politically. I spent years doing foreclosure and eviction work and saw the horrible parts of it, but also did census work in row houses and high rise projects in Cabrini Green ( i lived in the govt enforced mixed income apartments next door to the high rises) whatever solution there is begins with a decommodification of real estate, which itself is basically revolution, so what a humane housing solution looks like in practice is probably impossible to predict. It's enough for the moment to know that the status quo must be annihilated utterly alternate answer: let's build on what Mao's explorations on the theme revealed
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Apr 17, 2020 17:14
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WampaLord posted:yes, it's better to live in slums with broken stairs then to be homeless, this isn't a complicated judgement to make You're quoting an evictions and foreclosure lawyer, dunno if you know
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Apr 17, 2020 17:16
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Frosted Flake posted:I’m sure it feels like an Egyptologist whose husband suddenly has very strong heterodox opinions on the field, halfway to being a Hotep. Don't put PhDs on a pedestal too much. They're smart people with a great work ethic who've accomplished a lot, but even 20 years of medical school couldn't stop my mother from smoking and getting into paleo and keto. What it did was convince her that because she liked nutrition in medical school and might have gone into it as her field, that all her pet research makes her an expert and she can't be wrong. Having a doctorate doesn't make you a genius and it doesn't elevate you above the masses. All it means is that you spent a lot of money and time to have a lot of people talk endlessly at you about a certain subject, and make you write a lot about it. A decade of academia can stick your head up your rear end just as much as it can educate you. The thing about highly educated people is that they're just as susceptible to human bias as the uneducated. They are still people. The reason you can't convince your wife isn't because she has a PhD. It's because she is just as susceptible to belief perseverance as you, maybe more because she has so much confidence in her own intelligence and educated upbringing. Cup Runneth Over fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Apr 17, 2020 |
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Apr 17, 2020 17:17
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