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If they decide to kill Cloud in the next one I am on board.
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Apr 17, 2020 18:18
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Something I was thinking about while making lunch: there really are a ton of ways this can go, and a lot of ways we can read the inclusion of the Whispers that won't be confirmed or denied until part 2 comes out probably. Maybe we're in for a crazy story about extradimensional and timeline nonsense going forward. I sorta hope not, but maybe! Or maybe, and I think this might be how Pollyanna's reading it, the Whispers were meant to be purely metaphorical. Maybe Nojima, Nomura, and maybe even Kitase looked at the original and thought, if we were making this today, there's a lot we'd do very very differently. They still want to tell a story that explores a lot of the same themes, the same characters and world, but they just wouldn't write the same story anymore if they were making it as a new game right now. So they made the first part include a major plotline specifically about that conflict, between wanting to make something better than they did in 1997 while also worrying about being true to it, resolving with the idea that they need to be able to be free to tell the story they would tell if they made the game now. In this scenario, the Whispers really are gone, and along with them anything explicitly about timeline/universe shenanigans, but the story will be very different going forward because it's the new story they need to be able to tell--FFVII retold the same way myths or superhero origin stories are retold, with significant changes but often revolving around the same core. If it's that second one? I'm on board. Yeah, let's do it. But if it's the first--if the future parts of the remake remain preoccupied with timeline/destiny stuff and ruminating about the nature of remakes in a very meta, self-consciously subversive way--I've got pretty big reservations about whether that'll be any good. Harrow fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Apr 17, 2020 |
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Apr 17, 2020 18:28
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Incidentally I glanced at the Aerith death scene on Youtube, and...yup, that is approximately seven seconds from the time Sephiroth rafter leaps and Aerith gets stabbed.
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Apr 17, 2020 18:31
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Harrow posted:Something I was thinking about while making lunch: there really are a ton of ways this can go, and a lot of ways we can read the inclusion of the Whispers that won't be confirmed or denied until part 2 comes out probably. We're in lock step on this. If Ch. 18 is the real deal end of destiny/timeline shenanigans I can write it off as a necessary evil to properly update the story.
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Apr 17, 2020 18:38
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I hope they make Yuffie as fun to fight with as they did Tifa
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Apr 17, 2020 18:43
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Harrow posted:Like if it makes me just a nerd who hates change because I'm bummed that I won't get to see the rest of FFVII remade (and expanded/reimagined) as faithfully as Midgar then This hasn't even happened yet. It's not reasonable to immediately expect everything to be so different as to be worthless from this point on, especially when Midgar was both so faithful and so improved.
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Apr 17, 2020 18:44
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Pollyanna posted:This hasn't even happened yet. It's not reasonable to immediately expect everything to be so different as to be worthless from this point on, especially when Midgar was both so faithful and so improved. I didn't say "if it's very different then it's worthless." I just said that I'm disappointed that we're probably not going to see the original story retold the same way Midgar was--and if we were, they never would've bothered with the Whispers in the first place. Remember, the Whispers never intervened for a lot of the changes (Wall Market, Chapter 4, etc.), only when things diverged a ton. If they weren't going to diverge massively, they never would've included the Whispers at all. But again, what I think is, well, to quote myself from a few posts ago: Harrow posted:Or maybe, and I think this might be how Pollyanna's reading it, the Whispers were meant to be purely metaphorical. Maybe Nojima, Nomura, and maybe even Kitase looked at the original and thought, if we were making this today, there's a lot we'd do very very differently. They still want to tell a story that explores a lot of the same themes, the same characters and world, but they just wouldn't write the same story anymore if they were making it as a new game right now. So they made the first part include a major plotline specifically about that conflict, between wanting to make something better than they did in 1997 while also worrying about being true to it, resolving with the idea that they need to be able to be free to tell the story they would tell if they made the game now. In this scenario, the Whispers really are gone, and along with them anything explicitly about timeline/universe shenanigans, but the story will be very different going forward because it's the new story they need to be able to tell--FFVII retold the same way myths or superhero origin stories are retold, with significant changes but often revolving around the same core. If this is what they're doing and the Whispers/timeline stuff isn't a focus going forward, then cool. If it's just a way to metaphorically explore that feeling of conflict between wanting to be faithful to the original but believing you can make a better version of it now? Yeah, I'm completely on board to see a retelling of the original story the way they'd do it if they were making it as a brand new game today and not as a remake. If this is what it's all about, then I'd be unreservedly excited about it, and I hope that this is what it is. I'm just not really on board with the potential for the rest of the story to be preoccupied with timelines, fate, destiny, and being self-consciously meta about being a remake. And you're right, we don't know that's what's going to happen, but, like, we're speculating in this thread. That possibility's going to be in a lot of people's minds, especially after the ending did something as significant as bringing Zack back to life.
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Apr 17, 2020 18:51
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Me, I'm kind of entertained by the idea that it was only destiny holding Zack back from taking out 50 Shinra goons and a few missile launching helicopters. Of course he did. Actually it even fits the context of Crisis Core. As I remember, the last "boss" in that game was waves and waves of goons. If you beat those, the helicopters turned up to go "gently caress you, blow up" DeathChicken fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Apr 17, 2020 |
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Apr 17, 2020 18:55
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I don't know where people are getting timeline stuff from. As far as the world of FF7 is concerned there's only one timeline (or "destiny" if you want to call it that), it was overwritten by Cloud and Friends killing the fate ghost voltron, and a couple characters can see how the fates have shifted. I don't think the next two games are going to feature anybody meeting their alternate selves or whatever.
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Apr 17, 2020 19:03
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DemoneeHo posted:FFVIIR: Cloud Returns will be about Cloud in a solo adventure, tasked by the goddess of Gaia to set the timeline back to normal after everything went to poo poo in part 2. Materia will be replaced with a multitude of dresses that grant him different abilities. Also, he'll have pink hair. Don’t make me yearn for things I can’t have.
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Apr 17, 2020 19:05
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exquisite tea posted:I don't know where people are getting timeline stuff from. As far as the world of FF7 is concerned there's only one timeline (or "destiny" if you want to call it that), it was overwritten by Cloud and Friends killing the fate ghost voltron, and a couple characters can see how the fates have shifted. I don't think the next two games are going to feature anybody meeting their alternate selves or whatever. I think a lot of it comes down to the different Stamp, and the idea that maybe Sephiroth/Jenova is from the original timeline and already knows what happened, things like that. It's entirely possible the different Stamp in the ending is just shorthand for "poo poo's going to be really different now" and Sephiroth/Jenova just have visions of the future the way Cloud does, but in a lot more detail and so they're much more knowledgeable about what destiny has in store.
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Apr 17, 2020 19:07
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DeathChicken posted:Me, I'm kind of entertained by the idea that it was only destiny holding Zack back from taking out 50 Shinra goons and a few missile launching helicopters. Of course he did. I mean something if I remember right he gets the helicopters too eventually, the fight ends with a completely exhausted Zack vs 3 grunts as he sluggishly bops them for 9999 to no avail, then his limit break slot machine croaks it just before it finishes rolling a life saving triple Aeris and he eats poo poo. Presumably the time ghosts were hacking the HP value for those guys.
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Apr 17, 2020 19:13
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There is nothing more valuable than Materia Slots.
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Apr 17, 2020 19:16
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Has Square-Enix announced any DLC plans for this game? Or is it pretty certain the only content we'll see is the next release?
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Apr 17, 2020 19:20
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Arrrthritis posted:Has Square-Enix announced any DLC plans for this game? Or is it pretty certain the only content we'll see is the next release? I haven't heard of any other DLC plans, though I'd assume the pre-order summons will be made available for purchase at some point because why would you leave that potential money on the table? They could add more summons or combat challenges to the game, but I imagine they'll just move ahead to work on the next release. I don't really get the vibe that they'll do any content DLC (like quests, towns, or dungeons) for any of the games, and instead opt to just have it all on the disc, which I can certainly appreciate.
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Apr 17, 2020 19:25
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Very dumb question, especially amidst the pandemic, but do we have any idea when a potential release date for part 2 might be? I'm deeply worried we won't see anything for another 5 years.
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Apr 17, 2020 19:38
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The Puppy Bowl posted:Very dumb question, especially amidst the pandemic, but do we have any idea when a potential release date for part 2 might be? I'm deeply worried we won't see anything for another 5 years. in keeping with the game's central motif, it will be released in 7 years
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Apr 17, 2020 19:49
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What's the name of the track where Tifa is climbing on the monkey bars at Shinra HQ? I can't find that one anywhere.
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Apr 17, 2020 19:53
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As I was plodding through the game, I was really dreading what weird meta-changes they were going to throw at us, but now that I've completed the game, I gotta say I actually love what they've done. Now I'm going through hard mode and I love seeing all of these little nods and hints in the cutscenes that I missed the first time around. Like it's really cool how Aerith clearly knows about the future but covers it fairly well so you might not notice on your first time through the game. I also LOVE the fact that the title was a double entendre all along. "Remake" is a subtitle meaning "reshape/reform," not just "hey here's your HD remaster, kiddos." Titles with a second, deeper meaning is one of my favorite tropes in recent years, like Bloodborne or (in some sense) Bravely Default: Where the Fairy Flies. It's an acknowledgement that yes, the answer was there from the get-go. The only major open question I really want to see addressed so far is what happened to start the deviation from destiny. Why is FF7 not happening correctly this time? Why did the whispers appear at first? Anyway, I had a fresh take that I think might happen going forward in game 2. Aerith's character arc sure resembles the first half or so of Yuna's across FFX and FFX-2. Particularly in the second game, Yuna learns to be much more headstrong and assertive, saving the world and Tidus before rejoining him in the good ending as an equal and not just "Tidus' love interest." I could definitely see Aerith in a more a sporty outfit with, like, twin daggers or something. Maybe because Cloud is killed or just incapacitated in some way, like the Mideel segment in FF7 OG, but more extensive, like game-long. A climactic melee duel between Aerith and Sephiroth just..."feels" like something modern Square Enix would do. And it would probably be awesome. Who knows, maybe she just loving kills him. For now, just be glad they didn't turn future-knowing Aerith into Vanille 2.0. Because they could've done that so easily. For FF7R2 I fully expect SOME kind of immediate THIS-IS-VERY-DIFFERENT plot event at the very beginning that pushes the game in an unforeseen direction. I don't think people should keep assuming things like "when they go to Junon" or "when they go snowboarding" or whatever. The new story will likely vastly differ. Finally, to all the people who are sour on the ending, I feel you. I have never been so disgusted by a game I waited ages for as when I played KH3. OH MY GOD that game was awful. And yes the same designers are involved in FF7R and likely the sequel too. That is super concerning. But they built some serious good will with this game, so...I'm cautiously optimistic. Just know that some super fans like myself completely adored this ending, so Squenix didn't just pull a major dumdum move blindly.
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Apr 17, 2020 19:58
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exquisite tea posted:What's the name of the track where Tifa is climbing on the monkey bars at Shinra HQ? I can't find that one anywhere. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_WvnWg5uqE I belive it's this one
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Apr 17, 2020 20:00
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Ah yeah, that's the good poo poo.
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Apr 17, 2020 20:02
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vandiar posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_WvnWg5uqE This makes me want an FF7 themed case in the next Ace Attorney.
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Apr 17, 2020 20:04
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Final Fantasy 7: Remake doesn't mean it's a remake of the original, it stands for Sepheroth's remaking of the story lol
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Apr 17, 2020 20:10
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The weirdest thing to me on this soundtrack is Flying High, the song that plays when you parachute down to the slums in Chapter 4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYiPZ3JdHHI because it sounds like the Top Gun opening theme, Top Gun Anthem https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2M7QwHnVXQ The song owns but wtf
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Apr 17, 2020 20:10
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Because I need to think about something in the shower, I was wondering what kind of playstyles would work for the rest of the FF7 crew. I came up with something like this: -Cid is a beefier phys-based brawler, kind of like melee Barrett but with actual air attacks. Triangle is Jump (duh) where the longer you charge it the stronger it is but the longer he has to stay in the air. -Cait Sith is a sturdy magic user whose triangle ability is slots, but he can alter its luck and overall power with his abilities, kind of like Tifa's chi. -Yuffie can use trangle to swap between melee and ranged- her weapon/upgrades determine what range is physical or magic. -Vincent is normally a glass-cannon physical ranged fighter, but doesn't have a regular limit break, his limit bar acts as the resource for his transformations which he can activate at any time with triangle. -I honestly cant remember anything about how Red actually plays in the original, I dunno, a fast caster? Tell me how wrong I am and what you think everyone should play like!
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Apr 17, 2020 20:39
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Also Rude will join the party and be literally Zangeif
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Apr 17, 2020 20:40
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The Puppy Bowl posted:Very dumb question, especially amidst the pandemic, but do we have any idea when a potential release date for part 2 might be? I'm deeply worried we won't see anything for another 5 years. This one took 5 years and that was with like 2 of those years wasted on contracted-out work that they scrapped completely, iirc. Part 2 has already been in some stage of development for a while and they've already got a ton of assets to work with and a basic script roadmap (assuming they don't decide to make things fly completely off the rails) so I would guess 2 years is a more likely timeframe. Maybe even slightly less since I'm sure they are well aware that people are going to get real impatient real fast. PsychoInternetHawk posted:Because I need to think about something in the shower, I was wondering what kind of playstyles would work for the rest of the FF7 crew. I came up with something like this: Cid - pretty much a classic Dragoon, could probably lift the basic feel of the combat from FFXIV. Cait Sith - Support character / bard type focused on buffing with roulette wheel limits. Kinda falls into the caster wheelhouse but I think there's gonna be too many of those and they'll need to do something different. Would be kinda interesting if you could swap between the moogle doll for slower, heavier attacks and the cat for much faster, weaker stuff. Yuffie - Agree that a hybrid melee / ranged type gameplay would be fun Vincent - Gimme a pared-down version of like DMC gun kata gameplay with the ability to transform into dumb slasher movie monsters and I'll take back everything bad I've said about Vincent Red - Yeah that's tricky, he has some strong plot development but gameplay-wise he felt kinda bland in the original - he seems like a caster for sure, but he also has some weird physical-scaling limits. Half of his limit breaks are status-related (mostly haste and berserk iirc) so being a sort of time mage or something set up to throw a bunch of statuses around could be fun. Maybe edge him into a healer role post-Aerith (assuming, you know) Grizzled Patriarch fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Apr 17, 2020 |
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Apr 17, 2020 20:42
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Clarste posted:I disagree that we don't need to establish Cloud and Tifa's past with Sephiroth. And frankly also with the idea that Hojo saying "you're not a SOLDIER, you're..." completely ruins a twist that occurs 30 hours later. The twist wasn't just that Cloud wasn't a SOLDIER, but also that he was one of those faceless infantrymen that we've been conditioned to not care about. That was the part that blew my mind as a kid anyway. Yeah, it could be used to help prime the viewer into believing Sephiroth
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Apr 17, 2020 20:45
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exquisite tea posted:I don't know where people are getting timeline stuff from. As far as the world of FF7 is concerned there's only one timeline (or "destiny" if you want to call it that), it was overwritten by Cloud and Friends killing the fate ghost voltron, and a couple characters can see how the fates have shifted. I don't think the next two games are going to feature anybody meeting their alternate selves or whatever. The game itself uses the word "timeline" if you use assess on the whisper versions of cloud/barret/tifa. It says they are from a "future timeline".
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Apr 17, 2020 20:46
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Nuggan posted:The game itself uses the word "timeline" if you use assess on the whisper versions of cloud/barret/tifa. It says they are from a "future timeline". Are you talking about the red/blue/yellow boss guys? Cause those aren't Cloud/Barrett/Tifa, they're the Advent Children Sephiroth bros
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Apr 17, 2020 20:50
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Are you talking about the red/blue/yellow boss guys? Cause those aren't Cloud/Barrett/Tifa, they're the Advent Children Sephiroth bros It's not really confirmed either way. They match their fighting styles/weapons. They also match the Advent Children dudes. Either way, I forgot their in-game names and its an easy way to point out who I was talking about. But the game does say they're from a "future timeline". Nuggan fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Apr 17, 2020 |
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Apr 17, 2020 20:51
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PsychoInternetHawk posted:Also Rude will join the party and be literally Zangeif Not without his partner. Thats like asking for the peanut butter without the jelly.
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Apr 17, 2020 20:52
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Imo it makes more sense for the ghosts to represent the party members than it does the Advent Children dudes - not really sure what motivation they'd have to keep the timeline on track whereas there's probably a lot of tragic irony to be mined from the idea of the party fighting versions of themselves that think all of the pain they endure is worth the planet's ultimate salvation vs. the remake party and Sephiorth both deciding they can defy fate and create a superior outcome.
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Apr 17, 2020 20:57
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Dark Cohomology posted:The only major open question I really want to see addressed so far is what happened to start the deviation from destiny. Why is FF7 not happening correctly this time? Why did the whispers appear at first? That's something I was thinking about, too. What set events off to go so differently from the original plot that the Whispers need to be around at all? What was the sort of "butterfly effect" moment that set a cascade of changes into motion? This is sorta why I'm expecting (and slightly dreading) some time travel/multiple-timeline plot element, since one thing that could've set the Whispers off in the first place would be Sephiroth and/or Jenova traveling back in time from the future and starting to screw around, or jumping over from a different timeline. Dark Cohomology posted:Finally, to all the people who are sour on the ending, I feel you. I have never been so disgusted by a game I waited ages for as when I played KH3. OH MY GOD that game was awful. And yes the same designers are involved in FF7R and likely the sequel too. That is super concerning. But they built some serious good will with this game, so...I'm cautiously optimistic. Just know that some super fans like myself completely adored this ending, so Squenix didn't just pull a major dumdum move blindly. Yeah, I don't know how I'm going to feel about the whole thing until we learn more about what part 2 will be, or even until we can actually play part 2. Like I posted earlier in the thread, if it's something where Nojima, Nomura, and Kitase were thinking about how they'd tell the story differently if they were writing it as a new story now and not retelling an existing one, and the Whispers were a mostly metaphorical manifestation of the conflict between trying to tell a better story while being faithful to the original, then I'm on board. If where we go from here is a new story that explores the same themes, characters, and world of FFVII but through a new retelling, like how myths or even superhero stories or whatever get told and retold with different details but the same heart, then I'm really excited about that! If, instead, we're in for a story about time-traveling Sephiroth and a lot of meta/self-conscious subversion of the idea of a "remake" or whatever, I'm skeptical whether that'll be any good. But really, there's no way to know yet.
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Apr 17, 2020 20:58
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Nuggan posted:They match their fighting styles/weapons. It's also been pointed out that they match the Advent Children dudes. Either way, I forgot their in-game names and its an easy way to point out who I was talking about. But the game does say they're from a "future timeline". Ah yes -- twin pistols, a one-handed sword held in the left hand, and a single fist weapon that creates ground shockwaves: the signature weapons of our heroes Cloud, Tifa, and Barrett and definitely not an easter egg alluding to these guys https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15JSsxfuKvg The Assess text says they're "whispers fighting to protect the future they come from" and Advent Children doesn't happen if FF7 doesn't play out like the original. They even summon Bahamut in the movie and the big bad is "Whisper Bahamut". It's all fairly straightforward! Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Apr 17, 2020 |
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Apr 17, 2020 20:59
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Okay, but why
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Apr 17, 2020 21:01
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Ah yes -- twin pistols, a one-handed sword held in the left hand, and a single fist weapon that creates ground shockwaves: the signature weapons of our heroes Cloud, Tifa, and Barrett and definitely not an easter egg alluding to these guys Similar weapons and fighting styles either way. Anyway, I'm not trying to debate who they are, just pointing out that the game itself directly uses the word "timeline" and that's why people are talking about there being different timelines. 
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Apr 17, 2020 21:12
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I’m still going to stay optimistic about where it goes. 99% of the game shows that they get what was so great about it, so I’m not worried.
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Apr 17, 2020 22:03
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My Whisper name is.... Whisper Ostrum ..and I am defending my timeline where Aerith dies and Shinra HQ has red blood.
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Apr 17, 2020 22:07
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A bunch of goons excited to see where this story goes will be utterly let down to find out we need to revive fate again. The entirety of part 4 will be playing a shortened version of the original game from start to finish.
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Apr 17, 2020 22:14
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