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Clarste posted:For what it's worth, you do see a sane, "relatively normal dude" Sephiroth at the beginning of the original flashbacks too. It wasn't just a Crisis Core invention. I think we definitely need to see sane Sephiroth, if only because the contrast between his appearance and his pre-Jenova madness personality would be really fun and kind of unsettling to see in super HD with voice acting and stuff. Sephiroth looks like a creepy villain right from the start but from what we see in the Kalm flashback, he was downright friendly sometimes.
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Apr 17, 2020 14:32
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Caidin posted:I mean... You get back stabbed from the Buster Sword held sideways and I'm pretty sure your just bisected. Nah, it's cool. Sephiroth just took 352 damage.
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Apr 17, 2020 14:57
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Man it's kind of hilarious how huge of a difficulty spike Sephiroth has once he starts doing his fire/ice/wind/lightning infusion stuff. Before then, he gets completely wrecked by any of Cloud's counterattacks, either through punisher mode or Counterstance, and I had a ton of fun just clowning on him after he spent so long looming around being intimidating. Then he gets serious and I get ragdolled  Still beat him first try but it still featured Cloud, Aerith, and Tifa just getting unceremoniously flung around the arena while barely managing to damage him, which I guess is appropriate. How do you increase relationship values with Barret, by the way? Doing so with Tifa and Aerith seems fairly straightforward but I'm not sure how to do it with Barret, unless he shows up (both in the resolution scene and the final battle) if your relationship values with the other two characters are really low or something.
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Apr 17, 2020 15:06
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I know there some special dialogue during the gladiator fights for Shiva, but is anything cool happen if you bust out Bahamut against Whisper Bahamut?
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Apr 17, 2020 15:10
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MoaM posted:That one post early this weekend about Chapter 18 being an epilogue to the remake still sits well with me. Chapter 18 should have been a bonus dungeon, IMO.
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Apr 17, 2020 15:20
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Lotta people here who are making GBS threads their pants over an ending that was rendered irrelevant as a result of itself. The whispers are dead and gone, the entire point of the ending was killing the Kingdom Hearts poo poo. The Kingdom Hearts poo poo is dead. You can come out of hiding now. Like, if the last hour of this game ruined it for you, either you didn’t get it or you never liked this game to begin with.
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Apr 17, 2020 15:30
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The last boss has you literally kill the plot for FF7. It was meta and it owns Edit. It kind of makes me wish they remade FF8 instead of FF7 so people would stop bitching about time janitors. FF8 owned Rabid Snake fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Apr 17, 2020 |
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Apr 17, 2020 15:31
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I still want FF9 but maybe not in photo realism, with a plot that doesn't ignore Freya after a bit into disc 2 and like... a reason for Amarant to exist basically.
Caidin fucked around with this message at 15:41 on Apr 17, 2020 |
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Apr 17, 2020 15:38
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Pollyanna posted:Lotta people here who are making GBS threads their pants over an ending that was rendered irrelevant as a result of itself. The whispers are dead and gone, the entire point of the ending was killing the Kingdom Hearts poo poo. The Kingdom Hearts poo poo is dead. You can come out of hiding now. I mean, I think people are also upset that, with the Time Janitors gone, now major twists like Barret's death are back on the table, when what they wanted was to see FF7's original story adapted to this new game. I don't think it's just the "Kingdom Hearts poo poo," but also that they've clearly signaled that the remake won't be sticking to FF7's plot going forward. Again, really, we don't know yet if that's a good or bad thing and won't until at least part 2 is out so there's a lot of handwringing (and I include myself in this, I'm not innocent of it) about worst-case scenarios and imagining how bad or dumb it can be. Caidin posted:I still want FF9 but maybe not in photo realism, with a plot that doesn't ignore Freya after disc one and like... a reason for Amarant to exist basically. I keep saying: Bravely Default pop-up book environments, lovingly-rendered HD versions of the models in the original art style, keep most of the original script but with some good expansions (like for characters like Freya and Amarant), and I'm extremely sold. That's a game that could really shine with a sorta storybook illustration aesthetic in a remake.
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Apr 17, 2020 15:39
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Harrow posted:I keep saying: Bravely Default pop-up book environments, lovingly-rendered HD versions of the models in the original art style, keep most of the original script but with some good expansions (like for characters like Freya and Amarant), and I'm extremely sold. That's a game that could really shine with a sorta storybook illustration aesthetic in a remake. I dunno, the town's in 9 were really gorgeous in way that I don't think BD's style, while nice, really equals. Plus most of the BD dungeons are pretty dull visually.
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Apr 17, 2020 15:50
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The time thing would’ve worked with FF8 and not pissed so many people off. The whole plot of FF8 involves time compression.
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Apr 17, 2020 15:56
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Caidin posted:I dunno, the town's in 9 were really gorgeous in way that I don't think BD's style, while nice, really equals. Oh I don't really necessarily mean exactly like Bravely Default, just that the hand-drawn style where some elements seem to pop up out of the environment would be a good fit for FF9. I wouldn't want the characters to look like the Bravely Default 2 character models, for example, they're just kinda awkward looking.
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Apr 17, 2020 16:01
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Is there any gameplay differences or unlockables between the 9 outfits for Don Corneo? I didn't realize there were different outfits until I saw a clip last night and the crew looked different.
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Apr 17, 2020 16:16
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Chainclaw posted:Is there any gameplay differences or unlockables between the 9 outfits for Don Corneo? I didn't realize there were different outfits until I saw a clip last night and the crew looked different. just a completely insane and abusive trophy
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Apr 17, 2020 16:20
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Chainclaw posted:Is there any gameplay differences or unlockables between the 9 outfits for Don Corneo? I didn't realize there were different outfits until I saw a clip last night and the crew looked different. It doesn't change how the whole Don Corneo scenario goes, but you do have to do different things to get each outfit.
Harrow fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Apr 17, 2020 |
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Apr 17, 2020 16:20
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Harrow posted:Cloud's dress is apparently determined by what "path" you take through Wall Market. Depending on how you treat people and what choices you make (and how much you spend on your hand massage), Cloud can either get side quests from Madam M, Chocobo Sam, or Johnny, and the dress Cloud ends up with is determined by which one of those you do. The quests with Johnny are the Chocobo Sam quests, the third dress is from getting whichever set of sidequests and then not doing them.
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Apr 17, 2020 16:33
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Pollyanna posted:Lotta people here who are making GBS threads their pants over an ending that was rendered irrelevant as a result of itself. The whispers are dead and gone, the entire point of the ending was killing the Kingdom Hearts poo poo. The Kingdom Hearts poo poo is dead. You can come out of hiding now. I think you're missing that a consequence of the kingdom hearts bullshit is that the person behind said bullshit has given themselves license to dramatically change the story. I'm not against that sort of change on priciple but I have no faith in the author of the Arbiter of Fate to make generally positive plot changes.
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Apr 17, 2020 16:35
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Veib posted:The quests with Johnny are the Chocobo Sam quests, the third dress is from getting whichever set of sidequests and then not doing them. Ah sorry, I clearly misunderstood what I read
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Apr 17, 2020 16:42
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The Puppy Bowl posted:I think you're missing that a consequence of the kingdom hearts bullshit is that the person behind said bullshit has given themselves license to dramatically change the story. I'm not against that sort of change on priciple but I have no faith in the author of the Arbiter of Fate to make generally positive plot changes. Yeah, it's too bad Tetsuya Nomura and Kazushige Nojima wasn't as good as the original writers of FFVII, one....Tetsuya Nomura and Kazushige Nojima. Far as I'm concerned the people that made the story in the first place can do whatever the gently caress they want with it, it's not like it's going to retroactively unmake FFVII as a video game.
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Apr 17, 2020 16:54
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Nojima and Nomura also made Advent Children and Dirge of Cerberus so it is entirely fair to be skeptical of their plans and what they'll be able to pull off.
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Apr 17, 2020 16:56
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Kingdom Hearts bullshit owns, it led to the plot being orchestrated by Revolver Ocelot with the serial numbers filed off.
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Apr 17, 2020 16:57
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exquisite tea posted:I'm hoping the subsequent remake games can be more efficient about preserving the cast of characters because, improbable as it is to keep running into the same NPCs across the entire world, it's not satisfying to introduce a whole bunch of new characters for one storyline and then drop them forever. Having Zack gets them around the improbably showing up issue that if they want that. He could be a playable character in Midgar and interact with those NPCs, that also gives them leave to reuse some assets to speed up the development time.
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Apr 17, 2020 17:35
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Mulva posted:Yeah, it's too bad Tetsuya Nomura and Kazushige Nojima wasn't as good as the original writers of FFVII, one....Tetsuya Nomura and Kazushige Nojima. They can't unmake the original but they can make these new games far worse than I'd like them to be. Deferring to whatever Nomura wants because he had a hand in crafting the original is dumb. Death of the author is the only way to enjoy story telling. Audience experience, not authorial internet, is what matters. To be clear I liked this game a lot. The fighting, the weapon systems, and the magic all totally own. The original story is great and many of the additions and changes to the story were also great. Much of the new stuff was boring cliched anime tropes but this is a mainstream JRPG so that trash was expected. It's also ridiculously padded which gives me little hope they wrap this up in 2-3 more installments. The gibberish ending didn't ruin a great game just like it's lesser flaws didn't ruin it. It did make the game substantially worse.
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Apr 17, 2020 17:36
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CottonWolf posted:Having Zack gets them around the improbably showing up issue that if they want that. He could be a playable character in Midgar and interact with those NPCs, that also gives them leave to reuse some assets to speed up the development time. Depends on where the plot goes, really. If they take up a bunch of time doing Midgar stuff with Zack in part 2 then that naturally takes time away from the rest of the party chasing Sephiroth, which probably means the game will be more than three or four parts (unless they massively speed up the pace). Personally I hope they don't do that, I'd much much rather stay focused on the main group than take a bunch of time away to do Midgar stuff.
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Apr 17, 2020 17:37
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The Puppy Bowl posted:They can't unmake the original but they can make these new games far worse than I'd like them to be. Deferring to whatever Nomura wants because he had a hand in crafting the original is dumb. Death of the author is the only way to enjoy story telling. Audience experience, not authorial internet, is what matters. Yeah, the thing is that Nomura and Nojima have made good FFVII stuff (the original, the vast majority of this remake), but the same two men have also headed up some really bad FFVII stuff (Advent Children, Dirge of Cerberus, really the whole Compilation). So while they're obviously allowed to do whatever they want, and really they'd be allowed to make their own thing whether they had a hand in the original at all as far as I'm concerned, that doesn't mean there's any assurance at all that what they make will be good. In fact I'd argue it's more likely than not that it won't be. What gives me hope is that the most recent FFVII thing they made was extremely good and showed them doing a much better job writing these characters and this setting than they have in a very, very long time. And not just the parts that are the same as the original--a lot of the new content (the new Wall Market, Chapter 4's Avalanche adventure, etc.) was really good, too. So if they can keep that up, hell yeah, we're in for a good time. But at the same time, Chapter 18 was just a total mess--it's horribly paced, does a very poor job communicating what's happening and why you should care about it unless you've played the original, and sort of jettisons a lot of the characters' personalities to make them just heedlessly charge into whatever extradimensional nonsense is between them and Following The Plot (with a couple of exceptions, like Barret's speech before stepping through the portal or Aerith's "screw him" line). So it's easy to say "these guys had a big hand in creating the original, so anything they make with the remake is automatically just as valid" which, yeah, that's true. But that doesn't mean we have to have blind faith it'll be good. One of the reasons people are upset or at least nervous about the change in direction is that what we got so far was generally faithful to the original plot and it was good, and it's easy to assume--maybe incorrectly!--that continuing to do exactly that would continue to be really good. Stepping into the unknown like we appear to be doing from here onward means there are no assurances at all that what we get will be something we like even a little bit. The rug is pulled out from under us. Maybe it'll lead to something even better, but there's just as big of a chance it'll be astoundingly, Dirge of Cerberus-level dumb.
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Apr 17, 2020 17:44
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E: gently caress it I’m caring too much about a video game
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Apr 17, 2020 17:44
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Pollyanna posted:E: gently caress it I’m caring too much about a video game That's what this thread is for, carepost all you like
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Apr 17, 2020 17:46
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Then let me say this: chapter 18 was kind of dorky. It’s also over. You don’t have to be scared anymore because we’re already done with it and the game ended the same way the other one did, with leaving Midgar. Nothing that actually matters changed.
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Apr 17, 2020 17:47
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FFVIIR-2 will be about Tifa and Aerith finding themselves in an alternate timeline with no Cloud in sight. They'll go on a journey to find him, only for Sephiroth to succeed in his goal to become god and kill everyone. FFVIIR: Cloud Returns will be about Cloud in a solo adventure, tasked by the goddess of Gaia to set the timeline back to normal after everything went to poo poo in part 2. Materia will be replaced with a multitude of dresses that grant him different abilities. Also, he'll have pink hair. Thats right, we're going full XIII, baby
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Apr 17, 2020 17:48
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Harrow posted:Depends on where the plot goes, really. If they take up a bunch of time doing Midgar stuff with Zack in part 2 then that naturally takes time away from the rest of the party chasing Sephiroth, which probably means the game will be more than three or four parts (unless they massively speed up the pace). Personally I hope they don't do that, I'd much much rather stay focused on the main group than take a bunch of time away to do Midgar stuff. Agreed. The only interesting way I could see Zack being deployed is as a sort of antagonist. Like if he tracks down the party some point along their journey and freaks out on Cloud for stealing his life and girlfriend. Maybe it even happens after Aerith dies so he's in a rage that Cloud got her killed. Whatever it is I want there to be some kind of tension. If they just fold Zack into the party or replace a dead Cloud with him that would suck. Zack is basically just happier far more boring Cloud. Well adjusted people who've got it all figured out don't make for great main characters.
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Apr 17, 2020 17:48
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Pollyanna posted:Then let me say this: chapter 18 was kind of dorky. It’s also over. You don’t have to be scared anymore because we’re already done with it and the game ended the same way the other one did, with leaving Midgar. Nothing that actually matters changed. I feel like you're sorta pointedly ignoring what actually happened in Chapter 18, though. Aside from my issues with the pacing, it's not really Chapter 18 itself that is the big problem for a lot of people. It's what it means. Remember, the Whispers intervened specifically to prevent or undo events that would have radically changed the plot of Final Fantasy VII. They're gone now. The kinds of things they would have prevented are now very possible. Even if Chapter 18 was better-paced and not quite as much confusing extradimensional nonsense, that part would still be true, and those concerns would still exist. From now on, we're probably going to diverge much more significantly from the plot of Final Fantasy VII--otherwise, they'd never have bothered setting up the Whispers and making a huge deal out of defeating them in the first place.
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Apr 17, 2020 17:53
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Harrow posted:I feel like you're sorta pointedly ignoring what actually happened in Chapter 18, though. Aside from my issues with the pacing, it's not really Chapter 18 itself that is the big problem for a lot of people. It's what it means. We have now boiled it down to "the problem is change" and I cannot help anyone there.
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Apr 17, 2020 17:54
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DemoneeHo posted:FFVIIR-2 will be about Tifa and Aerith finding themselves in an alternate timeline with no Cloud in sight. They'll go on a journey to find him, only for Sephiroth to succeed in his goal to become god and kill everyone. Sephiroth wishes he was as awesome as Caius. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vq_QGAAUbzE
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Apr 17, 2020 17:56
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The one thing that gives me hope is Sephiroth's 7 seconds line. If that is the window cloud has to make a significant difference to destiny then maybe the only huge plot point in question is Aerith's death. Adding uncertainty to that event and allowing for other more modest changes to the story is a great idea.
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Apr 17, 2020 17:57
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Pollyanna posted:We have now boiled it down to "the problem is change" and I cannot help anyone there. Eh, I think the problem is big change, if that makes sense. Like I've pointed out before, a lot of the changes in this remake were positive ones. Chapter 4's Avalanche adventure, the redone Wall Market, the new character interactions, new areas that were introduced and set up new side stories, all of those things are cool as hell. And they're all changes. Beyond the most hardcore purists, they've been welcomed with open arms. The problem, at least the one that I have (and again I don't hate the ending, I'm conflicted about it), isn't "nerds hate change." Again, I'm sure for some people it just comes down to that, I'm sure there are some dumb purists who are angry about Wall Market changing or poo poo like that. But for me, it's much more like "I got excited for a remake of Final Fantasy VII, but this is actually probably a completely different story from here onward and that's kind of a bummer if you were excited to see the rest of the story remade." Like if it makes me just a nerd who hates change because I'm bummed that I won't get to see the rest of FFVII remade (and expanded/reimagined) as faithfully as Midgar then  I'm excited for a new story, too--that's why I'm conflicted--but I think it's very valid to be disappointed that we won't see the rest of the original actually remade. Harrow fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Apr 17, 2020 |
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Apr 17, 2020 18:03
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Pollyanna posted:We have now boiled it down to "the problem is change" and I cannot help anyone there. The problem is bad change. This is subjective of course but I think you'll find the story of the original final fantasy 7 is better thought of than the story of say Kingdom Hearts. I'd like more of the story telling like the former and less like latter. Ch. 18 makes me feel like I won't get that.
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Apr 17, 2020 18:03
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I might be shitposting about 7 remake turning into 13 and its sequels, but the following parts are most likely going to involve alternate timelines. If they wanted to tell a different story from OG 7 with no timeline shenanigans, they wouldn't have bothered to introduce time ghosts, which add in an extra dimension of the timeline mechanics that did not previously exist in past games, afaik. Nor would they have added that scene with Zack at the end. Now, admittedly this is all speculation with only scraps of evidence. For all we know, the scene with Zack at the end could be him in the same timeline as this story, just everything being altered as a result of time ghosts getting wiped out. Kinda like Superboy Prime punching the walls of reality, if you will.
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Apr 17, 2020 18:11
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The Puppy Bowl posted:The problem is bad change. This is subjective of course but I think you'll find the story of the original final fantasy 7 is better thought of than the story of say Kingdom Hearts. I'd like more of the story telling like the former and less like latter. Ch. 18 makes me feel like I won't get that. Hey. Hey. Pssst. Cloud was the first character to get Xehanorted. FFVII was always Kingdom Heart bullshit. Replace preaching about Kingdom Hearts with The Planet or The Lifestream, it's all the same in the end.
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Apr 17, 2020 18:13
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Pollyanna posted:Then let me say this: chapter 18 was kind of dorky. It’s also over. You don’t have to be scared anymore because we’re already done with it and the game ended the same way the other one did, with leaving Midgar. Nothing that actually matters changed.
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Apr 17, 2020 18:15
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Mulva posted:Hey. Hey. Whoooo boy. This explains a lot of your other takes.
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Apr 17, 2020 18:17
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