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A Sometimes Food posted:Honestly I don't think the plot is even the problem with KH's writing. It's the stilted rear end dialogue and moment to moment writing that brings it down for me. I'm not sure if it's Disney lawyers breathing down their necks, it's just got Square's shittiest writers or if it's a localisation issue; or some combo of the three but it just feels so trite and joyless. Sora, Donald Goofy! repeat endlessly.
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Apr 18, 2020 02:23
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Utgardaloki posted:oof, i'm just getting through Shinra HQ and it's amazing how fast this game went from fantastic to giving me buyer's remorse. i'm straight up tuning out the dialogue half the time. I mean, diff'rent strokes, but the hyperbole inherent to internet culture is pretty funny to me. Like, I bought Left Alive because I'm a die-hard fan of Front Mission 3. THAT game is a game to have buyer's remorse about. A Sometimes Food posted:Honestly I don't think the plot is even the problem with KH's writing. It's the stilted rear end dialogue and moment to moment writing that brings it down for me. I'm not sure if it's Disney lawyers breathing down their necks, it's just got Square's shittiest writers or if it's a localisation issue; or some combo of the three but it just feels so trite and joyless. KH3 is bereft of anything to enjoy about it. There's just nothing there to like, I feel like. guts and bolts fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Apr 18, 2020 |
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Apr 18, 2020 02:24
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guts and bolts posted:I mean, diff'rent strokes, but the hyperbole inherent to internet culture is pretty funny to me. Like, I bought Left Alive because I'm a die-hard fan of Front Mission 3. THAT game is a game to have buyer's remorse about. Left Alive is worse than the Ff7 remake, yes. i'm not being hyperbolic though, even discounting the mistake that is the new story beats, the original Shinra HQ is an excellently paced set piece that really highlights the best of it's villains and the central conflict. the third act I'm playing through today is a mess in comparison.
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Apr 18, 2020 02:33
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Utgardaloki posted:Left Alive is worse than the Ff7 remake, yes. i'm not being hyperbolic though, even discounting the mistake that is the new story beats, the original Shinra HQ is an excellently paced set piece that really highlights the best of it's villains and the central conflict. the third act I'm playing through today is a mess in comparison. Agree to disagree I guess. It just reminds me of like "WEDGE LIVED? RATED 0" metacritic reviews
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Apr 18, 2020 02:39
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guts and bolts posted:I mean, diff'rent strokes, but the hyperbole inherent to internet culture is pretty funny to me. Like, I bought Left Alive because I'm a die-hard fan of Front Mission 3. THAT game is a game to have buyer's remorse about. I tremendously disagree with your take on KH3 beyond the fact attractions are bad. The series had never massively been Disney x Final Fantasy, both had always basically been segregated into their own little corners outside of very few moments. But I'm totally on board for Nomura's Crazy train so I would dig the plot. That said. A Sometimes Food posted:Honestly I don't think the plot is even the problem with KH's writing. It's the stilted rear end dialogue and moment to moment writing that brings it down for me. I'm not sure if it's Disney lawyers breathing down their necks, it's just got Square's shittiest writers or if it's a localisation issue; or some combo of the three but it just feels so trite and joyless. It's Disney lawyers. I've talked about it in the KH thread but Disney is absolutely horrid micro managers of everything KH is. It's telling that KH2 is written by Nojima, same person writing this game, and directed by Nomura, same person directing this game, but the dialog is far more stilted and controlled and not natural. Granted KH3 was by Masaru Oka who's only worked on KH as a writer, but the issue is clearly not there. Long story cut short, Disney gets final say on the movements of characters in cutscenes, they have executive say (and used it) over the way Remy moved his tail. Square even noted that Disney forbid them from using Summons, hence why the Links were 'elemental avatars of Simba and Aerial and stuff' and not the characters directly. FFVIIRE took time because Square was meticulously pouring over every detail to make it the best experience they could. KH takes so long because Disney is pouring over every detail to ensure it's as corporate-approved as possible.
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Apr 18, 2020 02:40
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guts and bolts posted:I mean, diff'rent strokes, but the hyperbole inherent to internet culture is pretty funny to me. Like, I bought Left Alive because I'm a die-hard fan of Front Mission 3. THAT game is a game to have buyer's remorse about. Yeah. Honestly, it's probably for the best that Nomura has other poo poo to work on now, I feel like half the reason it got bad was just, needing to have a billion games over 17 years.
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Apr 18, 2020 02:41
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guts and bolts posted:Agree to disagree I guess. It just reminds me of like "WEDGE LIVED? RATED 0" metacritic reviews Did Wedge live? It was a little confusing...more importantly did the kitties make it???
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Apr 18, 2020 02:41
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The amount of work of done on giving cats such high quality models made me think "Oh, they're going to make Cait Sith look like a real cat" and then his model showed up and I was like "buh?"
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Apr 18, 2020 02:48
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Flopsy posted:Did Wedge live? It was a little confusing...more importantly did the kitties make it??? Due to time loop and Lifestream shenanigans, Biggs, Wedge, and Jessie are also Biggums, Reggie, and Smalls.
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Apr 18, 2020 02:49
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The Ghost of Ember posted:The amount of work of done on giving cats such high quality models made me think "Oh, they're going to make Cait Sith look like a real cat" and then his model showed up and I was like "buh?" My dude he was a cartoonish robot kitty in the original as well. HD DAD posted:Due to time loop and Lifestream shenanigans, Biggs, Wedge, and Jessie are also Biggums, Reggie, and Smalls. This tells me NOTHING about what happened to the kitties!
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Apr 18, 2020 02:51
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Flopsy posted:Did Wedge live? It was a little confusing...more importantly did the kitties make it??? Wedge only survived the plate dropping directly on his head via powerful Catomancy, and the Whispers knew they could not foil such feline might until the brave fool left their protection. Flopsy posted:My dude he was a cartoonish robot kitty in the original as well. One of the new twists of the timeline is that Reeve is actually a robotic drone controlled by Cait Sith.
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Apr 18, 2020 02:53
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The Ghost of Ember posted:The amount of work of done on giving cats such high quality models made me think "Oh, they're going to make Cait Sith look like a real cat" and then his model showed up and I was like "buh?" cait sith showing up during the plate collapse is one of the funniest moments in the game i'm sure it's completely baffling to people that never played the original
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Apr 18, 2020 02:56
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Cait's cameo is Square admitting that yeah he doesn't fit the game at all but whatever, he's cute and also he rides a moogle.
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Apr 18, 2020 02:59
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Cnidaria posted:cait sith showing up during the plate collapse is one of the funniest moments in the game I mean if they’re baffled by that after Hell House and Honeybee, then this isn’t the game for them
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Apr 18, 2020 02:59
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Flopsy posted:My dude he was a cartoonish robot kitty in the original as well. True, but it looked like those cat models got more design time, care, and dedication of processor resources than a fair amount the quest giver models, and the cats showed up for fifteen minutes of screen time if I'm being generous?
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Apr 18, 2020 03:01
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Caidin posted:One of the new twists of the timeline is that Reeve is actually a robotic drone controlled by Cait Sith. Oh God I wish.
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Apr 18, 2020 03:01
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Calaveron posted:I mean if they’re baffled by that after Hell House and Honeybee, then this isn’t the game for them at least those have some context cait sith showing up during a massive tragedy for 2 seconds with no explanation is extremely funny
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Apr 18, 2020 03:01
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Onmi posted:It's Disney lawyers. I've talked about it in the KH thread but Disney is absolutely horrid micro managers of everything KH is. It's telling that KH2 is written by Nojima, same person writing this game, and directed by Nomura, same person directing this game, but the dialog is far more stilted and controlled and not natural. Granted KH3 was by Masaru Oka who's only worked on KH as a writer, but the issue is clearly not there. Jesus  That explains a lot Utgardaloki posted:Left Alive is worse than the Ff7 remake, yes. i'm not being hyperbolic though, even discounting the mistake that is the new story beats, the original Shinra HQ is an excellently paced set piece that really highlights the best of it's villains and the central conflict. the third act I'm playing through today is a mess in comparison. There's a lot I didn't like about Shinra HQ but most of it was confined to Chapter 17 (the Drum specifically). That said I think the whole escape sequence from the Rufus fight onward is loving great. Harrow fucked around with this message at 03:17 on Apr 18, 2020 |
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Apr 18, 2020 03:11
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Just beat the simulator Superboss and holy poo poo the reward is so sick. Feels good that you actually get something cool from doing the hardest thing in the game.
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Apr 18, 2020 03:18
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Funky Valentine posted:Cait's cameo is Square admitting that yeah he doesn't fit the game at all but whatever, he's cute and also he rides a moogle. I mean he made sense as thing you would find in Gold Saucer, like my assumption was Reeve just hacked a park mascot somehow to use as an intermediary and spy because he has the least pull among the executives outside maybe Palmer so he has to make due with things like that, somehow he had more then one on hand but whatever. Now it's just kinda plain Reeve's had him for probably years and since we're expanding on things in general I think its time to elaborate on this subject.
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Apr 18, 2020 03:19
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Harrow posted:Jesus To be fair Rufus is positively dripping with charisma this time around.
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Apr 18, 2020 03:25
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Flopsy posted:To be fair Rufus is positively dripping with charisma this time around. "Think you got my number?" "Not at all. You're making me sweat." goddamn Rufus has powerful energy
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Apr 18, 2020 03:27
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Rufus absolutely loves it
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Apr 18, 2020 03:27
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I never really questioned the fight in the original, but is there any explanation for why Rufus is a badass who can go toe-to-toe with a SOLDIER?
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Apr 18, 2020 03:28
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Clarste posted:I never really questioned the fight in the original, but is there any explanation for why Rufus is a badass who can go toe-to-toe with a SOLDIER? In anime your ability to fight is directly influenced by your panache and swerve levels.
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Apr 18, 2020 03:31
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Rufus was always the best villain in FF7 honestly
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Apr 18, 2020 03:34
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Clarste posted:I never really questioned the fight in the original, but is there any explanation for why Rufus is a badass who can go toe-to-toe with a SOLDIER? Well he works best as a distance fighter. So long as he's far away and can either stun you or keep you distracted while he reloads he's untouchable. Get close and personal and stagger him? He takes boatloads of damage. Sort of like he's had a lot of practice at the gun range but once a dude with SOLDIER strength is wailing on him he crumples like normal human being. Wouldn't be surprised if he trains with his turks on the sly. Flopsy fucked around with this message at 03:38 on Apr 18, 2020 |
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Apr 18, 2020 03:35
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Advent Children had a lot of hit and miss stuff about it, but I love Rufus's explanation for how he survived passed off because Cloud didn't want to hear about it.
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Apr 18, 2020 03:37
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Flopsy posted:To be fair Rufus is positively dripping with charisma this time around. Yeah that went a long way. That fight was extremely cool and I hope one of the changes in the remake going forward is an expanded role for Rufus and his dog. JBP posted:In anime your ability to fight is directly influenced by your panache and swerve levels. 
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Apr 18, 2020 03:38
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No joke, the things I’m looking forward to most in future parts are Rufus, Heidegger, and Scarlet’s antics.
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Apr 18, 2020 03:42
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HD DAD posted:No joke, the things I’m looking forward to most in future parts are Rufus, Heidegger, and Scarlet’s antics. Seeing as they've done a brilliant job on all the characters so far I'm looking forward to further expanding on their roles and personalities. I kinda wanna make a bet Scarlet and Heidegger are in a sub/dom relationship.
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Apr 18, 2020 03:45
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Harrow posted:There's a lot I didn't like about Shinra HQ but most of it was confined to Chapter 17 (the Drum specifically). That said I think the whole escape sequence from the Rufus fight onward is loving great. Outside of the Drum I love the entire Shinra HQ part of the game, it felt like an absolutely exceptional climax to the experience that was positively soaked in atmosphere, gorgeous graphics, and incredible music. My main issue was that they didn't sell us on the sheer spookiness of Sephiroth/Jenova the way the original did - getting out of the cells and following the trail of blood through the empty building, finding the President straight up dead with a massive sword through him, the general sense of "Oh my gently caress, we thought we were here to gently caress up Shinra but something way more dangerous and creepy is around", remains iconic; I do wish we'd had something which parallels that.
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Apr 18, 2020 03:46
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Ms Adequate posted:Outside of the Drum I love the entire Shinra HQ part of the game, it felt like an absolutely exceptional climax to the experience that was positively soaked in atmosphere, gorgeous graphics, and incredible music. My main issue was that they didn't sell us on the sheer spookiness of Sephiroth/Jenova the way the original did - getting out of the cells and following the trail of blood through the empty building, finding the President straight up dead with a massive sword through him, the general sense of "Oh my gently caress, we thought we were here to gently caress up Shinra but something way more dangerous and creepy is around", remains iconic; I do wish we'd had something which parallels that. Yeah, I agree. I don't think they really got the build-up to Jenova/Sephiroth creepiness nearly as effectively in the remake, though that could be because the Whispers (and a lot of Sephiroth stuff) were already around doing creepy stuff long beforehand so there wasn't much to reveal beyond Jenova herself. The Drum was just tedious and I really didn't enjoy it, but I did like the rest of it, including some of the new moments they added, like the Shinra grunt recognizing Cloud from having trained together. And the escape sequence owned. Basically everything from Rufus showing up to Motorball exploding was fantastic, and the "Avalanche!" "Local florist!" "Lab rat dog!" "Up your rear end!" exchange was incredible.
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Apr 18, 2020 03:53
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Ms Adequate posted:Outside of the Drum I love the entire Shinra HQ part of the game, it felt like an absolutely exceptional climax to the experience that was positively soaked in atmosphere, gorgeous graphics, and incredible music. My main issue was that they didn't sell us on the sheer spookiness of Sephiroth/Jenova the way the original did - getting out of the cells and following the trail of blood through the empty building, finding the President straight up dead with a massive sword through him, the general sense of "Oh my gently caress, we thought we were here to gently caress up Shinra but something way more dangerous and creepy is around", remains iconic; I do wish we'd had something which parallels that. Yeah I think they were wrong in thinking there was no point building suspense about his reveal since we all know who he is now. We all know who Aerith is too, but when she was introduced it was still a big deal. I'm not totally opposed to Sephiroth being sprinkled throughout the game in short visions, since yeah we all know he's a big part of this series, but the way he was handled at Shinra HQ could have been better imo.
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Apr 18, 2020 03:53
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HD DAD posted:No joke, the things I’m looking forward to most in future parts are Rufus, Heidegger, and Scarlet’s antics. I want the slap fight on the Junon Cannon to play out like a boss battle from Yakuza.
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Apr 18, 2020 03:53
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Harrow posted:Yeah, I agree. I don't think they really got the build-up to Jenova/Sephiroth creepiness nearly as effectively in the remake, though that could be because the Whispers (and a lot of Sephiroth stuff) were already around doing creepy stuff long beforehand so there wasn't much to reveal beyond Jenova herself. The Drum was just tedious and I really didn't enjoy it, but I did like the rest of it, including some of the new moments they added, like the Shinra grunt recognizing Cloud from having trained together. Cloud taking cues from Roche to kick a lot of Shinra asses with a motorbike was also just  distilled to a form as pure as Huge MateriaAlso one of the most intense fights I had in the entire game was in the parking garage, don't know if it was intended or I just made some missteps that cost me but it was a massive brawl that lasted minutes and had me desperately trying to find an advantage that would keep us alive
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Apr 18, 2020 03:55
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I think it would have done okay and matched the increased general competency of the party in the Remake if their cover was blown in the Shinra building and they had to just blow though security one floor at a time until suddenly reinforcements slacken off after they blow through the lab and then stop completely, cue ominous music.
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Apr 18, 2020 03:55
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Ms Adequate posted:Cloud taking cues from Roche to kick a lot of Shinra asses with a motorbike was also just I couldn't help but think of how proud Roche would've been if he had seen that. I think he would've shed a tear.
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Apr 18, 2020 03:57
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I'm sure he was watching outside and was going to join until he saw what Cloud was doing.
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Apr 18, 2020 04:01
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Flopsy posted:Seeing as they've done a brilliant job on all the characters so far I'm looking forward to further expanding on their roles and personalities. I kinda wanna make a bet Scarlet and Heidegger are in a sub/dom relationship. See, this is why I’m 100% ok with plot changes. All the new plot, spooky ghosts aside, was all fun and interesting. The time ghosts preventing cool and interesting so the characters stayed on plot was annoying as gently caress. The way they handled the main story aside from ghosts was fantastic, and they nailed every character in the game. For the next part, I’m hoping they drop most of the timeline poo poo, and expand on a world where Biggs, Wedge, and Jessie are still kicking, and Zack never died, yet Cloud ended up the same person. If the timeline stuff remains, then I hope it shows why the Whispers were even created in the first place (and I wouldn’t be surprised by an Aerith betrayal).
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Apr 18, 2020 04:02
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