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Barry- Outdoor work like that should be paid appropriately and the workers need to be looked after carefully. If you are working for someone who is paying you the bare minimum then demanding room and board, they are stealing from you in ways many employers can only dream of. They are stealing from the eastern european workers who suffer the same miserable time you would too, but they tend to care less as a few months poo poo wage and conditions here can still let them live well back in eastern europe for the rest of the year. I'm guessing that isn't what you will be doing, and so in exchange for your quite literal blood, sweat and tears you will get a poverty wage while a shareholder in an agricultural firm spends most of the profit from the sweat of your brow on whatever the latest bourgeois nonsense is or perhaps just lets it join much other stolen labour in offshore accounts somewhere sunny and despotic. There's plenty you can get done outdoors, both volunteer and paid that will treat you far better than intensive fruit picking- that kind of work won't "toughen you up", it will do it's best to physically and mentally destroy you. I have been progressively doing more farm work for the last few years- even when I'm well it still can wipe me out for days at a time and I still don't work on my busiest days half as long or even one quarter as hard as a picker has to in order to make quotas.
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Apr 18, 2020 13:42
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NotJustANumber99 posted:Guess we don't need to do hs2 now. Government snuck out the door last week that construction can begin
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Apr 18, 2020 13:44
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 https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1251451605729361920
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Apr 18, 2020 13:45
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namesake posted:In lieu of solidarity movements fighting against racism and sexism to increase equality and participation the liberal feminist and anti-racist movements push for formal anti-discrimination and equality in law and so the process for hiring people had to take on numerous structural changes and HR had to expand to ensure that the process was legally compliant. Seems this goal could be achieved without listing all your secondary school qualifications for the role of "shop assistant". I'm sure the law isn't bad at all, but I can't help but feel that HR expansion is part of a process to make these jobs seem more "proper" than they really are.
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Apr 18, 2020 13:46
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The main thing I miss about office work is the people. I still have my team and I can still talk to them from home - but nothing compares to casual banter over the desk on a Thursday afternoon. My office was planning to transition so that each person spends three days in the office and two from home before this kicked off. I think that'd be a good balance to strike. Maybe two days in the office instead of three - just enough to touch base with human beings and remind yourself of the outside world.
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Apr 18, 2020 13:46
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DesperateDan posted:Barry- Yeah, fair. I suppose there's a difference between trying to show solidarity and throwing yourself into the woodchipper pointlessly. Givin' up on the idea, then. Still really wanna find some manual labour to do, but it's really hard when you live in a city centre and don't drive
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Apr 18, 2020 13:48
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I hope this goes on for a while but also my job doesn't disappear so I can keep collecting my minimum wage for playing games and doing housework
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Apr 18, 2020 13:48
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Endjinneer posted:It's got to, at least in the knowledge based industries. I've got colleagues who have an extra 2 hours leisure in each day now they're not commuting, and thousands in their pocket each year that isn't being spent on train tickets or petrol. Please be extremely cautious about leaping into home working with both feet at the business level without thinking it through. What in practice are you doing? You're removing significant office space costs from the business and putting them on the individual - not everyone will be able to simply have a spare room to use as an office and the merging of space between home and employment can be difficult for some people psychologically (not to mention those who live in abusive situations). Remote monitoring of people will be pushed either through access to their computer network at all times or keylogging/motion tracking around the home office area might all become standard policy which is literally letting your bosses spy on you at home. Sick leave will also be harder to justify as people don't need to travel very far and won't risk infecting others so there'll be increased pressure from management to not take sick days and there will be increased pressure to work irregular hours because why not have more evening meetings if everyone can dial in? You're also reducing the social connections between you and your coworkers - can you only communicate to each other through work platforms? That'll make it impossible to have informal discussions about work conditions and organising meaning any labour organising is almost impossible. Basically normalising home working as standard is a seriously dangerous approach and should not be attempted without having the workers having a significant and powerful say in the terms and culture it creates. winegums posted:Seems this goal could be achieved without listing all your secondary school qualifications for the role of "shop assistant". I'm sure the law isn't bad at all, but I can't help but feel that HR expansion is part of a process to make these jobs seem more "proper" than they really are. Possibly, but like I said HRs role is to ensure they aren't legally exposed, not that they do a good job of hiring people in a responsible way. A universal approach to hiring which ignores any specifics of the role in terms of seriousness or relevance of knowledge/experience needed is the simplest approach and that's what they do. There's also wider issues about job hunting nowadays, it's a vicious and uncertain competition where the winner takes all and no blowback for crushing your opponents and so having a creeping level of 'essentials' listed on your CV is a way of getting an edge over everyone else in the same way qualifications are getting more and more devalued because everyone lists everything they have got at all times and so the earlier stages of education seem less impressive. namesake fucked around with this message at 13:59 on Apr 18, 2020 |
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Apr 18, 2020 13:51
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I've been making huge pasties this week and they've been great, I'm having one for lunch today. Pasty pastry is super easy to make and you can put whatever you like inside so it's a nice way to turn leftovers into a new meal too. For once I'm agreeing with No. 10.
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Apr 18, 2020 14:01
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Barry Foster posted:Yeah, fair. I suppose there's a difference between trying to show solidarity and throwing yourself into the woodchipper pointlessly. We sold our old house to one of these farmers. And the first thing he did was change the electricity meter to a pay as you go one with cards so he can rip off the workers even more. Then filled the place with workers, at least two to a room. When they weren't working, the place was constant music and public annoyance. We got calls from locals thinking it was us for a while. It is definitely not Auf Wiedersehen, Pet.
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Apr 18, 2020 14:03
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Barry Foster posted:Yeah, fair. I suppose there's a difference between trying to show solidarity and throwing yourself into the woodchipper pointlessly. You could have a look at industrial cleaning, a few of my pals who are labourers aren't doing any construction but their firms have moved to coronavirus cleanup duties. If your partner has arthiritis the best thing for both of you is probably being at home. There's also volunteering for places like the National Trust, Footpath Associations and so on for some outdoor stuff but might be tricky if you live in a city. If you're just wanting to move about at home could give some calisthenics a go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jldft-ppzCU&t=163s
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Apr 18, 2020 14:03
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big scary monsters posted:I've been making huge pasties this week and they've been great, I'm having one for lunch today. Pasty pastry is super easy to make and you can put whatever you like inside so it's a nice way to turn leftovers into a new meal too. For once I'm agreeing with No. 10. I'd wager that your pasties are not half baked like No. 10's strategies
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Apr 18, 2020 14:08
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big scary monsters posted:I've been making huge pasties this week and they've been great, I'm having one for lunch today. Pasty pastry is super easy to make and you can put whatever you like inside so it's a nice way to turn leftovers into a new meal too. For once I'm agreeing with No. 10. I'd be doing shitloads of baking but as far as I can tell there's literally no flour anywhere in the city
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Apr 18, 2020 14:10
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lol, Brexiteers sinking the lifeboats. https://twitter.com/opendemocracy/status/1251492182709751808?s=21 888 deaths today. Considering it's the weekend, that's a bit scary.
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Apr 18, 2020 14:11
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Ok there are downsides to WFH, but I’d rather work at my dining table and dial into some evening meetings that I don’t actually attend because my webcam/mic are off, than have to commute in ever again. Keylogging and webcam monitoring are the big concerns, but as an annoying privileged tech worker I can kind of afford not to worry about it - most people in my line of work won’t agree to it, and someone will come up with workarounds for all of it.
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Apr 18, 2020 14:12
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bornbytheriver posted:I'd wager that your pasties are not half baked like No. 10's strategies Julio Cruz posted:I'd be doing shitloads of baking but as far as I can tell there's literally no flour anywhere in the city
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Apr 18, 2020 14:14
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Julio Cruz posted:I'd be doing shitloads of baking but as far as I can tell there's literally no flour anywhere in the city the lidl near me finally had some looroll and flour. looroll was the one thing i actually stockpiled well so we weren't in that much danger but its a relief to see it back picked up 3kg of flour and now i'm immediately making bread by May 2nd i should know whether the coughing child someone brought to the supermarket got me or not
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Apr 18, 2020 14:19
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I have now learned about the #BakingBad hashtag for black market flour.
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Apr 18, 2020 14:19
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Work belongs at work - my home is the place I relax and play videogames. I don't want to have to pollute that with work life encroaching in, and with most houses not having a spare room for an office it would end up doing so.
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Apr 18, 2020 14:21
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big scary monsters posted:I've been making huge pasties this week and they've been great, I'm having one for lunch today. Pasty pastry is super easy to make and you can put whatever you like inside so it's a nice way to turn leftovers into a new meal too. For once I'm agreeing with No. 10. aw poo poo i've never considered pasties... i have no carrots otherwise id try and make a cornish i like living in scotland but they don't seem to be as into savory pastries as i'd like, outside of gregs, not enough cornish pasties!
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Apr 18, 2020 14:21
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beef and stilton pasties are the food of the gods
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Apr 18, 2020 14:22
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Prism Mirror Lens posted:Ok there are downsides to WFH, but I’d rather work at my dining table and dial into some evening meetings that I don’t actually attend because my webcam/mic are off, than have to commute in ever again. The point is to organise and fight to win so you don't have to do either of those things. Develop and use power yourself so you create a good outcome rather than having to individually decide which is least worse. Prism Mirror Lens posted:Keylogging and webcam monitoring are the big concerns, but as an annoying privileged tech worker I can kind of afford not to worry about it - most people in my line of work won’t agree to it, and someone will come up with workarounds for all of it. "I don't agree to [corporate policy]." "Well it's a good thing everyone's clearing out their desks anyway because here's your redundancy notice for non-compliance." That's how that conversation would go. If you're willing to build and develop workarounds to avoid surveillance then why not put the effort in now to stop the surveillance before it's even implemented? Don't rely on the belief of your own individual exception to get you through because it just won't work.
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Apr 18, 2020 14:24
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Darth Walrus posted:I have now learned about the #BakingBad hashtag for black market flour. This reminds me of the Guardian's piece on how to bake when you are missing one or more ingredients and I looked at it cos I thought, OK, that might be interesting, we're low on flour and my girlfriend can't get hold of eggs right now. And yeah, it's peak Guardian, it's all, "no flour? No problem, just substitute ground quinoa" and a bunch of twee ingredients that OF COURSE we've all got knocking about on our shelves.
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Apr 18, 2020 14:26
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Communist Thoughts posted:aw poo poo i've never considered pasties... i have no carrots otherwise id try and make a cornish The traditional pasty recipe that I'm familiar with doesn't use carrot - I usually go with potato, neep and onion as the base veggies. No problem with carrots, leeks, or whatever else if you have them on hand though.
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Apr 18, 2020 14:29
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Communist Thoughts posted:aw poo poo i've never considered pasties... i have no carrots otherwise id try and make a cornish A Cornish pasty has beef, a little bit of onion, and swede and/or potato, and there are people who consider the potato to be a dangerous modern innovation.
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Apr 18, 2020 14:30
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big scary monsters posted:The traditional pasty recipe that I'm familiar with doesn't use carrot - I usually go with potato, neep and onion as the base veggies. No problem with carrots, leeks, or whatever else if you have on hand though. yeah looking it up i need swede which i dont have either. i could probably just use potato and onion though i think that, fish pie and southern fried chicken will be my next big cooking endeavours but loving hell im wishing i had a dishwasher and a not a tiny windowless kitchen e speaking of: check this recipe out if you have the stuff, its extremely loving good https://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2015/07/the-food-lab-southern-fried-chicken-recipe.html
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Apr 18, 2020 14:31
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winegums posted:Seems this goal could be achieved without listing all your secondary school qualifications for the role of "shop assistant". I'm sure the law isn't bad at all, but I can't help but feel that HR expansion is part of a process to make these jobs seem more "proper" than they really are. Job centres these days and the "welfare to work" industry function to do just that, seems
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Apr 18, 2020 14:32
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Communist Thoughts posted:aw poo poo i've never considered pasties... i have no carrots otherwise id try and make a cornish Carrots do not belong in a proper pasty (or anywhere else really). However I guess you don't have swede either, so as you were. E: so beaten. But potato and onion pasties are fine and trad, as long as you can have pepper and can serve with cream.
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Apr 18, 2020 14:32
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Darth Walrus posted:Buzzfeed has the goods on Number Ten's gradually emerging plans for its coronavirus exit strategy In a very interesting long read, which sits intriguingly with this section from the Daily Telegraph: This poo poo is scary; what's going to happen when people have had enough of being told to stay at home? I'm lucky enough to live in a rural area, but even here people are flouting the rules.
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Apr 18, 2020 14:33
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christ i really put my foot in it with that carrots comment, i'm so sorry everyone
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Apr 18, 2020 14:33
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Darth Walrus posted:888 deaths today. Considering it's the weekend, that's a bit scary. 
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Apr 18, 2020 14:34
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Communist Thoughts posted:yeah looking it up i need swede which i dont have either. i could probably just use potato and onion though Potato with a bit of pepper is an acceptable substitute for swede. Some would say boil it for a few seconds before mixing it in to get the right texture, but that's a waste of water and gas IMO.
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Apr 18, 2020 14:35
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Darth Walrus posted:lol, Brexiteers sinking the lifeboats. The weekend slump is normally in Sunday/Monday figures.
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Apr 18, 2020 14:36
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Barry Foster posted:Hence 'essentially' It's not "essentially" indentured servitude either. It's lacking the essential factors that would make it indentured servitude.
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Apr 18, 2020 14:36
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It's not really a choice if the alternative is to starve and suffer
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Apr 18, 2020 14:38
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Communist Thoughts posted:christ i really put my foot in it with that carrots comment, i'm so sorry everyone
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Apr 18, 2020 14:39
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Sorry, but “you won’t do x? Fired!” is just not how conversations go currently in the tech industry. They already can’t hire enough good people, despite massive efforts to get everyone coding to flood the market. You can absolutely say things like “I can’t join the meeting at 6 - I leave at 5”, “please can you subsidise the purchase of an office chair during WFH?” and “I have security concerns about linking x to company tech. I need to be excluded from this policy.” and probably get what you want. Of course if every company starts it, that’s a different matter. The only reason programmers are treated relatively well now is because it’s so easy to switch companies. In that case, yes, worker organisation is needed. Funnily enough I actually got asked to work recently making software which does keylogging under the guise of “team cooperation” - your whole team can virtually look over your shoulder while you type. Even the guy making it said he absolutely wouldn’t agree to use it lol
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Apr 18, 2020 14:39
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Ash Crimson posted:This poo poo is scary; what's going to happen when people have had enough of being told to stay at home? A return to science-based leadership according to the tories.
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Apr 18, 2020 14:40
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big scary monsters posted:I don't hold with pasty prescriptivism. I'll be using up the last of the pastry tomorrow to make a chili pasty with some leftovers, and I've made them in the past entirely vegan; with haggis; or with reindeer and lingonberries. If any Cornish want to make an issue of it then I'll meet you in a Truro carpark of your choosing once lockdown is over. I'll bring you a pasty I made, you can bring one you made and we can eat them together. I don't mind people making pasties with whatever they want (my personal recipe - I offer up a prayer of repentance to the memory of my dear old Cornish mum whenever I make it - uses a dash of tomato puree, garlic, and even some diced peppers), it's just calling it a *Cornish* pasty when the filling looks like a cottage pie lost a fight with a bottle of Dolmio that annoys the poo poo out of me. If it comes to it doing it with shortcrust rather than suet pastry is also dodgy, but nobody's got the time for that poo poo.
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Apr 18, 2020 14:48
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Isomermaid posted:This reminds me of the Guardian's piece on how to bake when you are missing one or more ingredients and I looked at it cos I thought, OK, that might be interesting, we're low on flour and my girlfriend can't get hold of eggs right now. And yeah, it's peak Guardian, it's all, "no flour? No problem, just substitute ground quinoa" and a bunch of twee ingredients that OF COURSE we've all got knocking about on our shelves. The Guardian lifestyle section is mainly an exhibition of that specific type of middle-classness, where you can laugh and point. Like, I'm totally middle class and I find the whole thing very cringeworthy. Nothingtoseehere posted:Work belongs at work - my home is the place I relax and play videogames. I don't want to have to pollute that with work life encroaching in, and with most houses not having a spare room for an office it would end up doing so. Yeah when I started working from home it was wonderful, but mainly because I'm the only person in this country who works for my part of the company, so I was driving 30 minutes down the motorway each morning to sit near on-paper colleagues I have nothing in common with. And I set up in our office room with a big monitor and everything - but now my wife's working up there because her work is more important and more happening, and her laptop's smaller, and I'm on the kitchen table, which is fine but not a good long-term thing. Like anything that is possibly good, corporations will make it terrible unless we actively stop them.
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