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Does it ever get explained why the Turks didn't just abduct Aerith back when Tseng first found her? It's not like Shinra care about her consent once they have her captive.
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Apr 20, 2020 14:44
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Inferior posted:Does it ever get explained why the Turks didn't just abduct Aerith back when Tseng first found her? It's not like Shinra care about her consent once they have her captive. Aerith's mom says that whatever they're trying to do doesn't work if they force her.. Which doesn't make much sense but wtv
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Apr 20, 2020 14:49
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can anyone explain what was up with the vr movie during the shinra building tour where it gets all hosed up toward the end with the meteor, and tifa and barret both get knocked out? at first i thought that was just one of cloud's hallucinations taking over, but then when it ends tifa and barret both act like they saw the same thing so i was just confused
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Apr 20, 2020 14:56
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sharrrk posted:can anyone explain what was up with the vr movie during the shinra building tour where it gets all hosed up toward the end with the meteor, and tifa and barret both get knocked out? at first i thought that was just one of cloud's hallucinations taking over, but then when it ends tifa and barret both act like they saw the same thing so i was just confused it looked cool and Square-Enix spent a lot of money on it so they wanted to share it with you
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Apr 20, 2020 14:58
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sharrrk posted:can anyone explain what was up with the vr movie during the shinra building tour where it gets all hosed up toward the end with the meteor, and tifa and barret both get knocked out? at first i thought that was just one of cloud's hallucinations taking over, but then when it ends tifa and barret both act like they saw the same thing so i was just confused My guess is either that's the Whispers showing the future/destiny, or Jenova Dreamweaver starting to tamper with everyone's minds, showing what her endgame is, since Red specifically states that she deals in illusions.
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Apr 20, 2020 15:03
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Isn't the Cetra Promised Land just a metaphor for rejoining the Lifestream? Like I guess Aerith's weird hippie powers could theoretically let her find a big mako deposit somewhere I guess.
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Apr 20, 2020 15:11
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grieving for Gandalf posted:it looked cool and Square-Enix spent a lot of money on it so they wanted to share it with you ah, my thanks
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Apr 20, 2020 15:12
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Caidin posted:Isn't the Cetra Promised Land just a metaphor for rejoining the Lifestream? Like I guess Aerith's weird hippie powers could theoretically let her find a big mako deposit somewhere I guess. I always figured it was a metaphor rather than a place. The Remake seems to behave like it physically exists though.
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Apr 20, 2020 15:23
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Necrothatcher posted:I always figured it was a metaphor rather than a place. The Remake seems to behave like it physically exists though. Shinra thinks it's a place. That don't make it so. Aerith never says, or at least that she doesn't know where it is. I'm still on Team Lifestream for the "Promised Land"
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Apr 20, 2020 15:25
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The promised land will be revealed to actually be Spira.
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Apr 20, 2020 15:27
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Necrothatcher posted:I always figured it was a metaphor rather than a place. The Remake seems to behave like it physically exists though. Shinra always acted like it physically existed. As far as Aerith knows, it does, which is why she doesn't contradict it. But she also don't really know any details about it.
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Apr 20, 2020 15:27
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Man, I hope they kill Tifa instead of Aeris in part 2 (or 3, 4, whatever) just so the game can have an actual twist.
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Apr 20, 2020 15:28
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Killing everyone and abruptly ending the game would be the biggest most exciting twist of them all.
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Apr 20, 2020 15:29
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ZearothK posted:Man, I hope they kill Tifa instead of Aeris in part 2 
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Apr 20, 2020 15:33
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exquisite tea posted:Killing everyone and abruptly ending the game would be the biggest most exciting twist of them all. Mass Effect 2 approach where who lives is based on how many fetch quests you did for each party member.
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Apr 20, 2020 15:36
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I forced myself to beat Jules in pull-ups for just such an occasion.
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Apr 20, 2020 15:37
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Proteus Jones posted:Shinra thinks it's a place. That don't make it so. In the original the elders in Cosmo Canyon tell you that they are pretty sure that the Promised Land was just what the Cetra thought of the Lifestream as and that Shinra is just being dumb.
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Apr 20, 2020 15:44
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It's gonna be wild starting in part 2 to be going to this crazy variety of locations and weird fantasy game-y places instead of just Midgar. Probably won't be as shocking a transition just because there'll be a few years between leaving Midgar and continuing the journey, but it's still going to rule seeing these characters crawling through glowing magic caverns and a giant glacier and poo poo like that.
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Apr 20, 2020 15:44
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So, that ending happened. Did I punch out the Time Cops so hard it retroactively changed the timeline? Is that what I was supposed to get from that?
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Apr 20, 2020 15:46
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Proteus Jones posted:Shinra thinks it's a place. That don't make it so. Thinking on it and my probably flawed memory of the OG, the Northern Crater is the Promised Land in that in times past the planet diverted a bunch of mako to the area to recover from Jenova's impact. Shinra's has misinterpreted what records they have of the Cetra and Jenova to the extent they thought the latter was one of the former and the true nature of the PL was obscured. Hojo knows better but let's the idea of the treasure hunt persist to keep his budget padded.
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Apr 20, 2020 15:48
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AngryRobotsInc posted:So, that ending happened. Did I punch out the Time Cops so hard it retroactively changed the timeline? Is that what I was supposed to get from that? That's one possibility, yeah. Aerith does warn everyone that they might be "changing themselves" as part of all of this, so she might be aware that killing the Whispers might have retroactive effects on history. My guess is that, if this is the case, our characters will still remember events the way we saw them (retconning the very game we just played would suck, but also the whole "ripple effect-proof memory" thing is a classic feature of time travel/general timeline bullshit) but notice at some point that things are different now. The other possibility is that the timeline the game takes place in is unchanged, perhaps with the exception of Biggs having miraculously survived, but the scenes we saw with Zack take place in an alternate universe.
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Apr 20, 2020 15:49
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Just how rough is the original game TL anyways? I played it like over 20 years ago so I never really understood anything but the broad strokes at the time. I remember stuff like the infamous "I feel asleep" line but nothing else really when it comes to the translation quality. But I see people talk about how certain scenes are "outright gibberish" and stuff..Was thinking about doing a replay now that I'm done with this.
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Apr 20, 2020 15:53
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Ethiser posted:In the original the elders in Cosmo Canyon tell you that they are pretty sure that the Promised Land was just what the Cetra thought of the Lifestream as and that Shinra is just being dumb. Caidin posted:Thinking on it and my probably flawed memory of the OG, the Northern Crater is the Promised Land in that in times past the planet diverted a bunch of mako to the area to recover from Jenova's impact. Shinra's has misinterpreted what records they have of the Cetra and Jenova to the extent they thought the latter was one of the former and the true nature of the PL was obscured. Their interest in Aerith is basically looking if there's a backdoor to the Lifestream through the Temple, Capital, or crater. In the original before they even know the Temple and Capital are unimportant to their goals (nor Hojo has triangulated the Reunion), Rufus has already ordered the Highwind to be overhauled to survive the North Crater winds so they obviously had a shortlist.
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Apr 20, 2020 15:58
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Ibram Gaunt posted:Just how rough is the original game TL anyways? I played it like over 20 years ago so I never really understood anything but the broad strokes at the time. I remember stuff like the infamous "I feel asleep" line but nothing else really when it comes to the translation quality. But I see people talk about how certain scenes are "outright gibberish" and stuff..Was thinking about doing a replay now that I'm done with this. It's not so much gibberish as it is the vague way Japanese talks about things in order to preserve a sense of mystery. That sort of thing doesn't translate well so while the Japanese may successfully allude to something, in the English translation it would be easy to miss what was being talked about. That doesn't mean that you can't understand the whole picture by playing the English version, but taking it slow through the dialogue is necessary to fully understand everything.
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Apr 20, 2020 15:59
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The latest jimquisition has covered a hot topic in this thread about false advertising if Jim is your thing
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Apr 20, 2020 15:59
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Ibram Gaunt posted:Just how rough is the original game TL anyways? I played it like over 20 years ago so I never really understood anything but the broad strokes at the time. I remember stuff like the infamous "I feel asleep" line but nothing else really when it comes to the translation quality. But I see people talk about how certain scenes are "outright gibberish" and stuff..Was thinking about doing a replay now that I'm done with this. The broad strokes are there and mostly right, but it has all the hallmarks of a rushed translation, a translator not entirely fluent on one side of the equation or the other, and a lack of editor. So a lot of nuance is lost.
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Apr 20, 2020 16:00
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Has anyone figured out why the game is so aggressive to people who just wanted a remake? I mean, characterizing them as ghosts out to spoil everyone's fun and making FF7 fans effectively the final boss of the game is pretty rad, but have they given any interviews saying what they were thinking?
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Apr 20, 2020 16:10
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Necrothatcher posted:Has anyone figured out why the game is so aggressive to people who just wanted a remake? I mean, characterizing them as ghosts out to spoil everyone's fun and making FF7 fans effectively the final boss of the game is pretty rad, but have they given any interviews saying what they were thinking? "The game" doesn't believe this, it's just an extremely tortured reading of the ending.
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Apr 20, 2020 16:12
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Necrothatcher posted:Has anyone figured out why the game is so aggressive to people who just wanted a remake? I mean, characterizing them as ghosts out to spoil everyone's fun and making FF7 fans effectively the final boss of the game is pretty rad, but have they given any interviews saying what they were thinking? if you can pinpoint where in the game that the ghosts are characterized like that that would really help especially since it's so aggressive
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Apr 20, 2020 16:14
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exquisite tea posted:"The game" doesn't believe this, it's just an extremely tortured reading of the ending. It was ridiculously on the nose.
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Apr 20, 2020 16:14
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You're so vain You probably think this game is about you You're so vain, I'll bet you think this game is about you Don't you? Don't you?
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Apr 20, 2020 16:14
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The ghosts are as much or more the tendency of the designers to want to go back to the original telling. The ghosts exist just as much in say RE2Make but they just aren't handled in the meta way of hitting them with a sword to ignore them in game
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Apr 20, 2020 16:15
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Necrothatcher posted:Has anyone figured out why the game is so aggressive to people who just wanted a remake? I mean, characterizing them as ghosts out to spoil everyone's fun and making FF7 fans effectively the final boss of the game is pretty rad, but have they given any interviews saying what they were thinking? I think that's one way to read the ghosts, but I'm not sure they're really meant to be a caricature of fans who wanted a faithful remake so much as they're just a metaphor for the conflict between having the freedom to tell the best story you can vs. needing to remain faithful to the thing you're adapting. I wouldn't be surprised if the creators of the game struggled with that feeling just as much as some players do and decided to literalize it in the form of the Whispers. Then the ending comes down on the side of freedom being worth the risk of leaving the known path. One can read them as being an aggressive caricature of purist fans but I don't think they really come off that way. For one thing, they're not wrong to do what they're doing. If everything goes the way the Whispers are trying to make it go, things will turn out okay. If it doesn't, things can be better than they originally were (the plate might have been saved, Avalanche might have survived, etc.) but they could also go much, much worse (Barret could be dead, for example).
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Apr 20, 2020 16:15
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Asema posted:if you can pinpoint where in the game that the ghosts are characterized like that that would really help especially since it's so aggressive Sure, when Hojo is about to spill the beans on Cloud and the ghosts pop up and drag him away.
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Apr 20, 2020 16:16
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Necrothatcher posted:Sure, when Hojo is about to spill the beans on Cloud and the ghosts pop up and drag him away. how does that translate to the ghosts being fans?
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Apr 20, 2020 16:17
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The idea that creators hate their fans and do everything in their power to spite them is a very weird mentality and seems to drive most of the "ghosts are the purists getting loving OWNED" narratives.
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Apr 20, 2020 16:25
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Necrothatcher posted:Sure, when Hojo is about to spill the beans on Cloud and the ghosts pop up and drag him away. Don't be willfully dense.
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Apr 20, 2020 16:26
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I don't know how familiar you are with Japanese culture (I'm an expert), but hooded wraiths as a stand-in for overzealous fans are huge parts of it.
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Apr 20, 2020 16:28
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Ibram Gaunt posted:The idea that creators hate their fans and do everything in their power to spite them is a very weird mentality and seems to drive most of the "ghosts are the purists getting loving OWNED" narratives. To be fair, if you were a Final Fantasy fan who played through the entire FFXIII trilogy i can get thinking FF's designers hate you
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Apr 20, 2020 16:29
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I think it's easy to read the ending of FFVII Remake as spiteful if you're one of the people who feels sort of betrayed by how this remake ended up going, especially because of how faithful the remake is up until like the end of Chapter 17. I can understand someone feeling like they could finally trust that this game they'd dreamed of was real and they were actually going to get the exact remake they wanted, then feeling really lovely as the rug gets pulled out from under them. Seeing the ending--and the Whispers by extension--as spiteful or otherwise contemptuous of those feelings is easy for me to understand. But I think there's more to the Whispers than that, and that they represent a conflict that both the players and developers likely felt. I don't think it's a one-sided "we want to do our thing and we're going to caricature anyone who disagrees" thing, especially given how much empathy the Whispers are portrayed with towards the end (especially when they save Barret--they look so gentle and almost sad). And right up through the ending, Aerith is conflicted about the decision to kill the Whispers--she described the freedom they'd earn as like a "boundless sky" with fear in her voice, and we've established that wide-open skies are uncomfortable and maybe a little bit frightening to her because she's spent almost her whole life under the plate. Even afterwards, nobody's 100% sure they did the right thing choosing the risk of freedom vs. a guaranteed path except Sephiroth, and he's the bad guy. Harrow fucked around with this message at 16:34 on Apr 20, 2020 |
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Apr 20, 2020 16:31
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