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Apr 21, 2020 14:31
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Annnd we're off!
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Apr 21, 2020 14:32
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-500 points, not great, not terrible
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Apr 21, 2020 14:33
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Oils up over 100%! crank up the frackers boys economys back on the menu
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Apr 21, 2020 14:49
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Apr 21, 2020 14:59
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FizFashizzle posted:Saudi Arabia likely has enough liquidity reserves to survive this, and at the end will likely come out stronger. At this rate the Houthis are going to do the Ghana funeral dance in Riyadh.
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Apr 21, 2020 15:06
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dex_sda posted:your brainstem would literally get all the ions ripped out of it and completely disintegrate from a biological standpoint before you could feel any pain sign me up
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Apr 21, 2020 15:13
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V. Illych L. posted:i think the failure point of the scandinavian path to socialism was around the time of the saudi oil crisis - the single critical moment imo was when the swedish social democratic party went against LO (the trade union confederation) in the implementation of the meidtner plan for phasing out private property in the economy. since then our societies have drifted towards liberalisation the same as everyone else, driven by cheap disenfranchised migrant labour and trade regulations fuelling a labour aristocracy and a bourgeoisie which is now looking at turning on that labour aristocracy Bonus knife twist was when Palme decided to adopt the rights economic policies of holding back wage growth in favor of letting corporations pocket the profits on the flimsy pretext that they'd use it to develop their companies rather than just pay it out as bonuses, even though he had spent 2 months campaigning specifically on the idiocy of such policies. As a man of huge contrast, he surely knifed the socdems to ideological death.
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Apr 21, 2020 15:16
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The economy seems, well, bad
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Apr 21, 2020 15:23
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oxsnard posted:The economy seems, well, bad turn ur monitor upside down
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Apr 21, 2020 15:24
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Ash1138 posted:turn ur monitor upside down splendid
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Apr 21, 2020 15:25
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oxsnard posted:The economy seems, well, bad not a problem, the fed can buy up all that oil - plenty of room in the reflecting pool!
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Apr 21, 2020 15:26
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this is amazing https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/g5e3e5/i_bought_oil_at_32_yesterday_and_made_26000_sort/ dude held his oil futures contract to close, not knowing that the rule he was going to use to get out of it does not apply to WTI, so now he has to figure out a way to take delivery of 42,000 gallons of oil
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Apr 21, 2020 15:26
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The Nordic Model is best understood as a compromise that all sides entered to gain something and that all sides retained the power to pull out of. Capital needed it because Nordic countries were small and most of them relative latecomers to the list of highly developed economies. Capital needed to be amassed through cooperative efforts to pay the entry fee of sorts to the market, the cost of the state-of-the-art infrastructure, production facilities and so on, designed by and for the largest corporations of the era. Those who can't pay the entry fee become or stay as subordinate economies, and subordinate economies are manipulated to keep them unable to pay it. Once the countries had achieved the necessary concentration of capital into private hands, once they had the globally competitive giant corporations of their own that they are known for now, that motivation wasn't there anymore. There was just inertia and the idea that things had worked well this far with the system they had. But capital has been pulling out of the deal everywhere it has been advantageous for them, and the technocrats and labor aristocrats have stayed busy trying to come up with deals that would make preserving more of the system for now advantageous enough for capital to consider. The tripartite corporate system is syndicalist in a similar way fascists were syndicalist, the point of having labor organizations on the negotiation table was to negotiate the loyalty of labor to the nation in service of productivist competition between nations. It sought to bring in the actual labor movement rather than trying to form a totally subordinate fake labor movement and declaring it the only game in town, but it still sought to split and direct the labor movement by privileging team players and disprivileging rabble-rousers who could as well be foreign agents. So I guess it's pretty much universal that decades later, there are hardly any people left who can think in terms other than advocating for the bourgeoisie to be as loyal to the nation and its people as they are?
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Apr 21, 2020 15:30
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just pour the oil onto my bedroom floor with the rest of the garbage
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Apr 21, 2020 15:32
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Maybe a dumb question but does the strategic oil reserve not have room? Wouldn't it be a win-win for everyone for the government to buy up the negative priced oil and put a shitload in the strategic reserve?
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Apr 21, 2020 15:33
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whole lot of unused public pools right now
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Apr 21, 2020 15:33
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I'm thinking about cashing out my 401k today. Better to do it now before the market finally comes to reality in the next month. I'd rather pay the 30% penalty than lose that same amount of value and have to wait 10 years for it to recover in a place I can't touch.
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Apr 21, 2020 15:34
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Apr 21, 2020 15:38
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Don't forget that capital was forced to compromise because of the mass migration to the US, basically leaving them with a much smaller work force which was all sick and tired of their poo poo already and suddenly had a larger base of power as they became less replaceable. Flash forward today after a few decades of promoted immigration they created another class of workers that are even more disfranchised from decision making while simultaneously being blamed for the shortcomings of the welfare state. Even though it's increasingly poor performance is due to privatization and reduced investment in it. Obviously not against migration but in the case of Swedish socdems there's a bunch of them who praise Borg as a great finance minister even though he told a group of Americans that "you create the wars, we take the refugees, win/win!" with the obvious intention of it being the division of the labour force. fanfic insert fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Apr 21, 2020 |
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Apr 21, 2020 15:40
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uncop posted:The Nordic Model is best understood as a compromise that all sides entered to gain something and that all sides retained the power to pull out of. Capital needed it because Nordic countries were small and most of them relative latecomers to the list of highly developed economies. Capital needed to be amassed through cooperative efforts to pay the entry fee of sorts to the market, the cost of the state-of-the-art infrastructure, production facilities and so on, designed by and for the largest corporations of the era. Those who can't pay the entry fee become or stay as subordinate economies, and subordinate economies are manipulated to keep them unable to pay it. i think this is understating the very real socialism of the post-war social democrats. erlander and gerhardsen in particular were sincerely committed to a socialist project, but were also intensely skeptical of the Soviet programme, and the norwegian labour party was pretty much bought over by the marshall plan. nevertheless, until the seventies the social democrats were pretty clearly committed to incrementalist progress towards socialism, nationalising businesses and developing structures meant to make the transition as smooth as possible - you had union reps take courses in accounting and finance in major factories, under the auspices of the LO unions, I.e. worker representation in tripartism. tripartism was always a compromise accepting the framework of the national state, but it used to be a compromise between parties who both thought they were going to win - unfortunately capital seems to have been right
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Apr 21, 2020 15:45
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Mozi posted:not a problem, the fed can buy up all that oil - plenty of room in the reflecting pool!
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Apr 21, 2020 15:45
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the oil is going to be dumped in the ocean hth
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Apr 21, 2020 15:50
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gently caress yeah, I think the collapse is here. New lows coming
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Apr 21, 2020 15:50
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Wow, so I posted about my friend who is a BP trader yesterday (he predicted oil would go negative) He just made $28 million on a trade yesterday and got notice this morning that they're laying off 30% of the staff in their group, likely to be based entirely on seniority. He's probably out of a job this week
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Apr 21, 2020 15:53
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BeefThief posted:the oil is going to be dumped in the ocean hth the ultimate thrill
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Apr 21, 2020 15:53
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given the gigantic moves that have been made to stabilize the number down situation, what can even be done? the only impulse number wizards have is "give rich people more money" so I suspect there will be more of that
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Apr 21, 2020 15:56
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oxsnard posted:Wow, so I posted about my friend who is a BP trader yesterday (he predicted oil would go negative) wages of sin and all that jazz
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Apr 21, 2020 15:56
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oxsnard posted:The economy seems, well, bad hmmm not sure of this
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Apr 21, 2020 15:56
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oxsnard posted:Wow, so I posted about my friend who is a BP trader yesterday (he predicted oil would go negative) early retirement lmao. 28 million is more than most ppl make in their lives
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Apr 21, 2020 15:59
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FAUXTON posted:wages of sin and all that jazz he crack pinged in 2016 and i think this year he's 90% of the way to becoming a full communist though. So he's not even mad, it's weird. He expects no loyalty from capital PawParole posted:early retirement lmao. 28 million is more than most ppl make in their lives he made the trade but BP is the one profiting for the record
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Apr 21, 2020 15:59
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PawParole posted:early retirement lmao. 28 million is more than most ppl make in their lives You don't get to keep it. That's making a trade on behalf of the company that hired you.
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Apr 21, 2020 16:00
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Over Easy posted:given the gigantic moves that have been made to stabilize the number down situation, what can even be done? give every individual 2k/mo for the next 6 months and just see what happens
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Apr 21, 2020 16:00
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PawParole posted:early retirement lmao. 28 million is more than most ppl make in their lives When traders say that they mean they made $28mil for their company yesterday.
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Apr 21, 2020 16:00
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PawParole posted:early retirement lmao. 28 million is more than most ppl make in their lives traders aren't making the money for themselves, it's for their employer or their employers clients, eg a retirement account or Jeff Bezos's hairless ballsack fund.
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Apr 21, 2020 16:02
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oxsnard posted:he crack pinged in 2016 and i think this year he's 90% of the way to becoming a full communist though. So he's not even mad, it's weird. He expects no loyalty from capital lol
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Apr 21, 2020 16:04
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so most people don't know this, but BP has divested almost entirely from their physical assets. They're 90% a financial firm. Buddy says there's a decent chance BP is the surprise Lehman for this cycle
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Apr 21, 2020 16:04
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V. Illych L. posted:sort of Norway's also retained many important characteristics that favor labor. The union membership rate has remained fairly stable since the 70s/80s at ~50%. That's behind the other nordic countries, but way ahead of the US (~10%). And the government still directly runs the lion's share of health and education services as well as the highest quality and most powerful broadcaster/news org (of course, the current admin has it in its crosshairs). The party with a stated goal of abolishing Capitalism gets a fairly consistent GE share of ~2.5% with one seat in parliament (giving it a voice and potential tiebreaker status) and is well represented in local elections. So while it could be a lot better, the situation isn't horrible. I think the biggest worry right now is that the labor party has been going hard 3rd way for a while, and its traditional base is demoralized and fragmenting. Some of the support is going to cryptoconservative or outright conservative parties and it's starting to tip the balance into territory where they will be able to start looting in earnest. In that regard, the corrupt pension fund dealings/hiring is another bad omen.
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Apr 21, 2020 16:04
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lol
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Apr 21, 2020 16:06
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V. Illych L. posted:i think this is understating the very real socialism of the post-war social democrats. erlander and gerhardsen in particular were sincerely committed to a socialist project, but were also intensely skeptical of the Soviet programme, and the norwegian labour party was pretty much bought over by the marshall plan. nevertheless, until the seventies the social democrats were pretty clearly committed to incrementalist progress towards socialism, nationalising businesses and developing structures meant to make the transition as smooth as possible - you had union reps take courses in accounting and finance in major factories, under the auspices of the LO unions, I.e. worker representation in tripartism. I don't disagree without that many of these people were real socialists, but I wasn't understating their socialism, their ideology was just beside the point. My point was structural, and these personalities weren't big enough to change the outcome of the structures long-term, perhaps also if they were predisposed to playing nice and working where they encountered less resistance. We wouldn't be talking nostalgically about historical leaders if there people like them had been cultivated to exist right now. Regarding my use of "labor aristocrat", it's an objective position that a subjective socialist can occupy, they're mediators between labor and capital that rise out of common workers, basically selected by both to play that role. The former selects them by vote, the latter by choosing who they agree to negotiate with and make favorable deals with, increasing their trust among workers by giving them results to show off to them. uncop fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Apr 21, 2020 |
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Apr 21, 2020 16:07
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