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Flopsy posted:Also twitch chats apparently. OH GOD DON'T READ TWITCH CHATS They're like comments on a news site, except less moderated. I saw people get pissed off to the point of throwing death threats on a stream that was just puppies! Not even a person raising puppies, just a camera on a mother dog and the puppies! Really, the only good way to get nuance is a system like... this! Where people can type things out, think it out for a second, and maybe even rewrite a line or two. And I think that's shown, where, here, a lot of us are a lot more nuanced. Not all of us, there are still the screaming "EVERYTHING SUCKS AND THE SERIES IS RUINED" types, but those aren't anywhere near the norm.
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Apr 22, 2020 06:16
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J Detan posted:OH GOD DON'T READ TWITCH CHATS Forms of communication that give you time to formulate your response tend to be better in long run. homeless snail posted:Youtube people make money from being performatively angry at things, please stop watching Youtube its extremely bad for your brain You'll have to pry Movie Bitches from my cold dead hands.
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Apr 22, 2020 06:22
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Of the youtube critics that didn't like the ending, I think that the only one that gave valid criticism that wasn't "tHiNg cHaNgE, nOw BaD" was Jeremy Jahns. While he didn't outright dislike the ending, he said that he wanted a remake, Square Enix announced they were making a remake, the promotional material they showed presented it as a remake, but it turns out to be a stealth sequel. That I can get being pissed at. What I don't get is people being pissed saying that the game was ruined ala Game of Thrones because of it's ending, when it was nothing of the sort. For the ending to ruin the rest of the product ala Game of Thrones, Cloud shouldn't have fought Sephiroth, who instead would have been defeated by Red XIII while he throws quips at "bErrEt nO hAnDs" , Aerith nukes Midgar with Holy, Tifa decides to see what lies west of Wutai, Hojo gets his head bashed against a wall and tossed by Jenova and Jonny is named President of Cosmo Canyon. The ending was different to the original, but the characters and their motivations stayed consistent all throughout, and the characters are FF7's strongest aspect. lezard_valeth fucked around with this message at 06:29 on Apr 22, 2020 |
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Apr 22, 2020 06:27
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lezard_valeth posted:Of the youtube critics that didn't like the ending, I think that the only one that gave valid criticism that wasn't "tHiNg cHaNgE, nOw BaD" was Jeremy Jahns. While he didn't outright dislike the ending, he said that he wanted a remake, Square Enix announced they were making a remake, the promotional material they showed presented it as a remake, but it turns out to be a stealth sequel. That I can get being pissed at. I got three minutes into his review and shut it off. His melodramatic whinging about Square-Enix made me want to punch the screen and honestly it didn't look like it was going to get better. Flopsy fucked around with this message at 06:31 on Apr 22, 2020 |
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Apr 22, 2020 06:29
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I don't understand being pissed at FF7R at all. Like, let down that it isn't going to be a faithful recreation of the '97 FF7, disappointed, miffed, all that. But the character writing and attention to detail and just the sheer amount of care that went into making this game -- it just seems like a really reactionary stance to take if you're pissed off. The devs clearly get it, or got it enough for this game to be a modern classic. Who knows how significant the new direction's divergences will even be? I dunno. I myself am sometimes torn between being disappointed that this isn't just FF7 Again and hyped that I have no idea what's coming next. But, like, viscerally angry seems like an unhealthy reaction to have.
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Apr 22, 2020 06:30
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Most of the anger pretty much boils down to "you told me this was a remake and it'd be the same, you tricked me, insert incessant screaming here". Also Jahns spent most of his time bitching about the fact that Zack exists and I can't imagine being someone who gives that much of a poo poo about Zack. lezard_valeth posted:The ending was different to the original The ending is nearly identical, there's just an extra sequence right before the end.
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Apr 22, 2020 06:32
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guts and bolts posted:I don't understand being pissed at FF7R at all. Like, let down that it isn't going to be a faithful recreation of the '97 FF7, disappointed, miffed, all that. But the character writing and attention to detail and just the sheer amount of care that went into making this game -- it just seems like a really reactionary stance to take if you're pissed off. The devs clearly get it, or got it enough for this game to be a modern classic. Who knows how significant the new direction's divergences will even be? I'm noticing a lot of hardcore fans are actually pretty loving happy with what we got but it's getting drowned out by the usual crowd. I think the only way to actually piss me off is if they dragged the plot into ugly awful directions like lezard_valeth outlined.
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Apr 22, 2020 06:33
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Flopsy posted:I got three minutes into his review and shut it off. His melodramatic whinging about Square-Enix made me want to punch the screen and honestly it didn't look like it was going to get better. Yeah he was trying to be funny with the "we are square enix not squaresoft" bit, but it got old and cringy fast. Still the points he criticised like Jenova's blood trail being changed to alien goop, and that the game shouldn't have been as heavily advertised as a remake, I can agree on. Pollyanna posted:
Why Zack and Vincent became so popular will always be a mistery to me. Like I know Crisis Core does a lot for Zack, but FF7 OG Zack didn't leave an impression on me at all outside of being plot twist Cloud lezard_valeth fucked around with this message at 06:36 on Apr 22, 2020 |
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Apr 22, 2020 06:33
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guts and bolts posted:I don't understand being pissed at FF7R at all. Like, let down that it isn't going to be a faithful recreation of the '97 FF7, disappointed, miffed, all that. But the character writing and attention to detail and just the sheer amount of care that went into making this game -- it just seems like a really reactionary stance to take if you're pissed off. The devs clearly get it, or got it enough for this game to be a modern classic. Who knows how significant the new direction's divergences will even be? I just dont like that we gotta pay $60 for each chunk, and wait who knows how long and how much money to play the whole game.
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Apr 22, 2020 06:35
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I think we would have avoided a lot of tears being shed by just not calling it Remake. Change the name after the announcement, just bite the bullet. The blood vs goop thing is a change in Japanese censorship laws over the past 23 years. ChocNitty posted:I just dont like that we gotta pay $60 for each chunk, and wait who knows how long and how much money to play the whole game. That sucks I guess
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Apr 22, 2020 06:35
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lezard_valeth posted:Yeah he was trying to be funny with the "we are square enix not squaresoft" bit, but it got old and cringy fast. Still the points he criticised like Jenova's blood trail being changed to alien goop, and that the game shouldn't have been as heavily advertised as a remake, I can agree on. If he knocked that poo poo off after the first time I would've been more willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Because I agree, I did prefer the subtler Jaws approach to Sephiroth in the original. But he was coming off as so whiny I lost my patience. Also just to see what other forums outside of reddit are saying I went lurking around lifestream.net....I got some weird impressions. Flopsy fucked around with this message at 06:39 on Apr 22, 2020 |
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Apr 22, 2020 06:36
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guts and bolts posted:I don't understand being pissed at FF7R at all. Like, let down that it isn't going to be a faithful recreation of the '97 FF7, disappointed, miffed, all that. But the character writing and attention to detail and just the sheer amount of care that went into making this game -- it just seems like a really reactionary stance to take if you're pissed off. The devs clearly get it, or got it enough for this game to be a modern classic. Who knows how significant the new direction's divergences will even be? I agree getting really mad is dumb, but there is some serious whiplash at the very end of the game when it comes from "this game is cool as gently caress" to "wait what the gently caress is this garbage why am I fighting sephiroth already and everyone's acting like all of this is completely normal and what the gently caress is going on" It's not that the ending was that bad for me, it's just I went from 100% enjoyment to 20% very quickly. I don't know about other people but that might have fueled the visceral reaction. Dreylad fucked around with this message at 06:42 on Apr 22, 2020 |
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Apr 22, 2020 06:39
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I like the whispers, and think it makes sense since the livestream is basically ghost like beings right? But that’s not my point, I just wanted to say that the best song in the game is the Whispers theme, or specifically the epic choral bits https://youtu.be/RvuvSmNiOv4 specifically at 1:09, the like staccato choir part and then at 2:14. Or at least it’s one of the best dramatic songs in the game, I think by far. The version of One Winged Angel is incredible too, obviously.
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Apr 22, 2020 06:39
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I want a Vincent fan to sit down with me and explain what they find/found so interesting about him, because as an optional character he was pretty barebones in the original unlike Yuffie, and unlike Zack he doesn't have an EU game that people fondly remember on which to lean on.
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Apr 22, 2020 06:40
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If you went from 100% enthusiasm to 20% enthusiasm in chapter 18 then either you're taking the game too seriously or you were never all that on board to begin with.
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Apr 22, 2020 06:40
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ChocNitty posted:I just dont like that we gotta pay $60 for each chunk, and wait who knows how long and how much money to play the whole game. That is the worst part innit, I wish I could just start playing Final Fantasy VII Reborn or Final Fantasy VII Reunion or Final Fantasy VII Revengeance or whatever part 2 is gonna be called
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Apr 22, 2020 06:40
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I would play Final Fantasy Rising.
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Apr 22, 2020 06:41
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lezard_valeth posted:I want a Vincent fan to sit down with me and explain what they find/found so interesting about him, because as an optional character he was pretty barebones in the original unlike Yuffie, and unlike Zack he doesn't have an EU game that people fondly remember on which to lean on.
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Apr 22, 2020 06:42
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Pollyanna posted:If you went from 100% enthusiasm to 20% enthusiasm in chapter 18 then either you're taking the game too seriously or you were never all that on board to begin with. that makes no sense
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Apr 22, 2020 06:43
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IMO just not having the Whispers around at all would've been a mistake. Them showing up, forcing things to stay the same whenever they looked like they were going to diverge. Actively getting Jessie and Biggs killed, and trying to murder Wedge after he managed to survive his fall after the pillar, etc. All of that had an actual purpose, to try and get you to feel just as much frustration towards them not allowing things to happen as you, and for me at least it worked.
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Apr 22, 2020 06:45
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lezard_valeth posted:I want a Vincent fan to sit down with me and explain what they find/found so interesting about him, because as an optional character he was pretty barebones in the original unlike Yuffie, and unlike Zack he doesn't have an EU game that people fondly remember on which to lean on. He's a hot dude with a vampire aesthetic and a tragic past. Unfortunately Square dropped the ball hard on Lucretia's characterization and it kinda undercuts his devotion to her.
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Apr 22, 2020 06:45
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ff7's greatest strength and weakness is that a lot of the backstory is kinda tucked away in different parts of the world so piecing it all together feels cool except the story barely hangs together without it.
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Apr 22, 2020 06:46
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lezard_valeth posted:I want a Vincent fan to sit down with me and explain what they find/found so interesting about him, because as an optional character he was pretty barebones in the original unlike Yuffie, and unlike Zack he doesn't have an EU game that people fondly remember on which to lean on. I mean, mechanically he's pretty decent. He's long-range, he has a couple weapons with 255% accuracy, so you can pair it with Deathblow for 100% accurate critical hits every turn for free, and he is tied with Cait Sith for highest magic behind Aerith and Cloud, so he can be both good with magic and physicals. His Soul Breaks are pretty lovely, though.
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Apr 22, 2020 06:47
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Vincent is the one thing I'm both most intrigued and scared of for part 2/3. The remake team has a really good grasp at how the characters worked in the OG, but when it comes to OG Vincent they have nothing to go by. The guy didn't even have proper animations for group interactions. And I'm scared that they will be using his AC/DoC personality.
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Apr 22, 2020 06:48
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They'll probably reformat him as a berserker for his limit breaks fragile long range shooter for everything else.
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Apr 22, 2020 06:48
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I fully expect to just ignore everything involving Vincent in the remakes.
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Apr 22, 2020 06:49
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lezard_valeth posted:Vincent is the one thing I'm both most intrigued and scared of for part 2/3. I wouldn't worry about that, I mean they dropped the lovely characterizations for the rest of the cast. They'll probably have to get creative with him though. Might make him more snarky cuz' Cloud broods enough for them all i think.
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Apr 22, 2020 06:50
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Also watching all this FF7R related videos on youtube has caused AC to start to pop up on my recommendations and... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHq0wG1BAJY It really REALLY doesn't hold up at all from when I watched this when I was 12/13. DEAR GOD 
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Apr 22, 2020 06:53
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Dreylad posted:I agree getting really mad is dumb, but there is some serious whiplash at the very end of the game when it comes from "this game is cool as gently caress" "to wait what the gently caress is this garbage why am I fighting sephiroth already and everyone's acting like all of this is completely normal and what the gently caress is going on" I mean I can actually sympathize with that reaction. My gut feeling - my initial reaction - to seeing Whisper Harbinger and then battling Sephiroth was "... oh Tetsuya nooooo." I was on board with changing the game, and even some of the more "radical" changes struck me as really cool (anyone who complains about Jenova Dreamweaver is loving crazy, I'm sorry, they just are). My issues weren't that things were being changed, it was that I abruptly became super concerned that Nomura was gonna Nomura all over this title, and after Final Fantasy XV and Kingdom Hearts III I was all done with that poo poo. I wanna get off Nomura's wild ride. The dude loving sucks as a scenario writer; Advent Children is on his doorstep, as is the aforementioned Kingdom Hearts III, and while it's tough to tell exactly where all of the blame for how butchered FFXV became lies, precisely, I felt pretty confident that his influence didn't help. But he's listed as a director and concept designer/character designer and not the scenario writer for Final Fantasy VII Remake, which I think corralled his bugfuck tendencies and tempered them some, and when he has someone else around to edit him ("No, Tetsuya, we're not doing that dumb poo poo") he's cranked out works I enjoy, even really love (The World Ends With You, Crisis Core, the first two numbered Kingdom Hearts games). It took a little bit for me to digest what I think they were trying, but after I got it, I was like, "Okay, big risk, I respect that, let's see where it goes." And my disappointment eventually gave way to hype. They fuckin' nailed so much of this goddamn game my friends. Like... And anyway I think I realized that a lot of my misgivings were, as it seems they chiefly are among the Very Mad crowd, about what I think is probably going to happen, or where things could go, instead of what FF7R actually is, which is a triumphant love letter to my favorite game of all time. Let's be clear: there is at least a coin flip's chance that the sequel games are worse than what a closer remake would've given us. But there's also at least a coin flip's chance that the sequels are even better, or at least well-executed and different and satisfying. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt not because of KH3 or FFXV or TWEWY or whatever - I'm giving the team the benefit of the doubt because of FF7R and that's it.
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Apr 22, 2020 06:54
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lezard_valeth posted:Vincent is the one thing I'm both most intrigued and scared of for part 2/3. I want him to be that completely unbearable 15 year old "edgy" person we all knew / were, the kind that would come this close to insisting their TRUE SOULNAME was Lord Necroshadowmartyr, just completely extra. If there's nothing to go with, might as well go with something funny. That and eventually they're gonna have to stop dunking on Cloud and that would fill the banter gap.
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Apr 22, 2020 06:55
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I want to believe that lines like Red XIII's "A glimpse of the future if we fail here today" or Aerith's "We can change it. Make it right" is actually Squarenix taking a second look at AC and DoC and saying "yikes, we need to purge this out of the canon, let's make them part of the Bad Timeline"
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Apr 22, 2020 06:58
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Honestly, gently caress it. The entire point of killing the Whispers was to purge FF7 of its previous baggage including the Compilation, so adding timelines and parallel worlds 'n poo poo is antithetical to that. Compilation is just not a thing anymore. Simplify it, don't gently caress it up further.
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Apr 22, 2020 07:00
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I look forward to this version of Aerith poking holes in Vincent's whole schitck. "So you were in a coffin for 30 years? Wow, we need to get you some sun. Can I braid your hair? I'm going to braid your hair."
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Apr 22, 2020 07:00
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Pollyanna posted:Honestly, gently caress it. The entire point of killing the Whispers was to purge FF7 of its previous baggage including the Compilation, so adding timelines and parallel worlds 'n poo poo is antithetical to that. Compilation is just not a thing anymore. Simplify it, don't gently caress it up further.
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Apr 22, 2020 07:01
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guts and bolts posted:I mean I can actually sympathize with that reaction. My gut feeling - my initial reaction - to seeing Whisper Harbinger and then battling Sephiroth was "... oh Tetsuya nooooo." I was on board with changing the game, and even some of the more "radical" changes struck me as really cool (anyone who complains about Jenova Dreamweaver is loving crazy, I'm sorry, they just are). My issues weren't that things were being changed, it was that I abruptly became super concerned that Nomura was gonna Nomura all over this title, and after Final Fantasy XV and Kingdom Hearts III I was all done with that poo poo. I wanna get off Nomura's wild ride. The dude loving sucks as a scenario writer; Advent Children is on his doorstep, as is the aforementioned Kingdom Hearts III, and while it's tough to tell exactly where all of the blame for how butchered FFXV became lies, precisely, I felt pretty confident that his influence didn't help. To be clear I have no problem with them changing things and remixing the story (the Jenova fight makes a decent amount of sense although I don't see why it had to be a dream or whatever that was but who cares the boss music is loving amazing), my problem is the execution. The writing is pretty good up until then where Red XIII apparently has all this knowledge because Aerith tapped him on the noggin, and the characters just stop reacting to the poo poo happening to them in the way they were reacting to all the other crazy poo poo that happens to them throughout the game. It's like that part of the script needed a few more passes and it didn't happen. The characters and the story are written really well I thought for a JRPG, not that I've played many modern JRPGs, but as things go off the rails -- which again, is fine -- characters start speaking about things in vague terms, everyone's just okay with fighting Sephrioth in whatever dimension they're in and Sephrioth himself is just overused to poo poo and not menacing anymore. I'm not concerned about what will happen, because I can't pass judgement on that. As you say it could be excellent or it could be utter garbage! My enjoyment was based entirely on what was given to me in the last section of the game.
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Apr 22, 2020 07:02
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lezard_valeth posted:I want to believe that lines like Red XIII's "A glimpse of the future if we fail here today" or Aerith's "We can change it. Make it right" is actually Squarenix taking a second look at AC and DoC and saying "yikes, we need to purge this out of the canon, let's make them part of the Bad Timeline" I SURE AS gently caress HOPE SO
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Apr 22, 2020 07:02
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homeless snail posted:Wishful thinking. Don't forget they explicitly talk about G Type Soldiers in this game, and also Zack and Cloud's friend from Crisis Core. Compilation's still canon. Uuuuugh okay fine. Decanonize AC and DC, then.
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Apr 22, 2020 07:04
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guts and bolts posted:I mean I can actually sympathize with that reaction. My gut feeling - my initial reaction - to seeing Whisper Harbinger and then battling Sephiroth was "... oh Tetsuya nooooo." I was on board with changing the game, and even some of the more "radical" changes struck me as really cool (anyone who complains about Jenova Dreamweaver is loving crazy, I'm sorry, they just are). My issues weren't that things were being changed, it was that I abruptly became super concerned that Nomura was gonna Nomura all over this title, and after Final Fantasy XV and Kingdom Hearts III I was all done with that poo poo. I wanna get off Nomura's wild ride. The dude loving sucks as a scenario writer; Advent Children is on his doorstep, as is the aforementioned Kingdom Hearts III, and while it's tough to tell exactly where all of the blame for how butchered FFXV became lies, precisely, I felt pretty confident that his influence didn't help. I mean yeah, I thought that too specifically those games and the circumstances surrounding each, and the fact that the people who were producers, directors, etc on the original are mostly back and working on this, as well as finding out Nomura wasn’t like the only one involved from the original like most people made it sound also made me realize that he had people around him to tell him that’s dumb dude, combined with the fact that it’s an already established work that he himself worked on 23 years ago and he seems to do better working on things that aren’t brand new stories or whatever. Also, I’m sure it’s been brought up itt but like Jim Sterling says in his review, the fact that the whispers sort of represent the fans who hate the changes and want to storyline to stay the same, and he makes you as the player, who probably hated them as soon as they showed up, even if they didn’t realize they were stopping changes go the events of FF7R from occurring (I think there’s a reason they’re generic dementor ghosts and not something more original looking) and also made you kill them is pretty incredible stuff. But I might be a sucker for meta stuff as the last SE game I liked before this was Nier Automata, and the last one before that was maybe KH2, or like ff7 or 9, although I barely remember 9 now and might not like it anymore.
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Apr 22, 2020 07:08
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J Detan posted:I want him to be that completely unbearable 15 year old "edgy" person we all knew / were, the kind that would come this close to insisting their TRUE SOULNAME was Lord Necroshadowmartyr, just completely extra. If there's nothing to go with, might as well go with something funny. That and eventually they're gonna have to stop dunking on Cloud and that would fill the banter gap. Vincent is Sephiroth's dad and doesn't know it because Lucretia lied to him about it. Hojo literally stole their kid against her will, but because she loves Vincent she wouldn't get him involved out of fear he'd go off and get himself killed. Vincent notices something is up (Lucretia's been missing? something like that) because he's a Turk, confronts Hojo, and Hojo picks up on the fact that Vincent doesn't know whose kid this Sephiroth is, so he claims that he knocked up Lucretia just to salt the wound, then shoots Vincent dead anyway and does crazy science on his corpse. Vincent isn't found in Nibelheim anymore; he's in Junon, looking for Hojo, and when you meet him he is busy handing the Turks their asses. He is also, unfortunately, in a berserker state as the Galian Beast, so the party mistakes him for a monster and teams up (briefly) with the Turks to stop him from rampaging and hurting innocent people. After he's KO'd and turns back into a spooky vampire lad, the Turks are gonna ice his rear end, but the party is uncomfortable with any more summary executions at the hands of Shinra, and decides to escape with him in tow. When they grill him about what his deal is he turns out to be like a worse version of Cloud who explains basically nothing and is extremely unfriendly, instead of being this serene emo-boy like in FF7 or AC. When the party lets slip they're opposing Shinra and chasing Sephiroth, he insists on accompanying them, reasoning that he knows how Shinra operates very well, and he can help them get past security (super high on account of Rufus being in town) to reach the cruiser that will take them across the sea. Vincent's unique action on Triangle will be a claw swipe melee attack that slightly refills his HP, MP, and Limit gauge, but you can hold the button to charge up its potency (and it has a cooldown). His Limits will be transformations, and the Limit gauge will begin draining whenever he activates them; when the gauge empties, he reverts back to his base form. In base form he's ranged; his damage is so-so but a lot of his weapon skills inflict status effects that the party normally can't access, like Doom or Lvl?Death. Transformed he's a melee bruiser but you cannot directly control him. Bam, done. Hire me Square-Enix. guts and bolts fucked around with this message at 07:15 on Apr 22, 2020 |
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Apr 22, 2020 07:09
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loving Genesis better not show up in Nibelheim like Crisis Core retconned. Him turning Sephiroth evil was the dumbest poo poo ever. Anyway, here's the poo poo I still need to see in some form in the sequels: - The other five playable characters - Nibelheim flashback for context about Cloud's delusions and the shared history between him, Tifa, and Sephiroth - Midgar Zolom - Junon dolphin + crashing the parade - Everyone getting into the worst disguises on the boat - Costa del Sol, in some form - North Corel, in some form - Cosmo Canyon - Gold Saucer and the date - Tifa and Cloud reconstructing their memories and healing (this is the emotional climax of the story and pretty much non-negotiable for me) I'd still like for Aeris to die, and I think she still might. I think this time, if we're really going with the "Last Temptation of Aeris Gainsborough" premise, she will choose to go willingly, rather than getting killed in a way that is, at the time, senseless and random. Beefstew fucked around with this message at 07:19 on Apr 22, 2020 |
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Apr 22, 2020 07:11
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