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Retro Futurist posted:The fact that you can't entirely trust cops (heh) is part of what makes them work. If they were a 100% thing it'd be kind of unfun, but with all the weird poo poo we've added over the years it gives scum a chance to lie and talk their way out of it which is what makes it fun. It’s true but you can just cut the faff and rather than relying on a meta with weird cop minimizing roles, you could just use trackers or something.
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Apr 20, 2020 16:55
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| # ? Jun 4, 2024 20:17 |
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By contrast I think doctor modifying roles are fine
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Apr 20, 2020 16:56
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I was told to lost here that a Good Place Mafia game is in development for 25ish players. More info will follow
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Apr 20, 2020 20:54
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I need a replacement for Bastard mafia , day 2 just started.
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Apr 21, 2020 02:02
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CapitalistPig posted:I need a replacement for Bastard mafia , day 2 just started. I'll do it
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Apr 21, 2020 02:36
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 Animal Crossing: New Horizons Mafia: is live!. This is a nightless, all vanilla mason game for 12 players (setup from the Legends of the Hidden Temple games). Saw a lot of bigger games up/going up but wanted to make a smaller one encouraging newer players to join (who have first dibs), but obviously anybody is welcome to sign up! Please don't sign up if you're a shitposter/low content/effort poster. I don't think the community has that many posters anymore but there was a time where I got burnt out because nobody took games seriously or just 2/3rds of the game lurked, so I will hand pick players if it comes to that! This is based off of one of my favorite setups (from 50/TNL) I've always wanted to run with all vanilla, 8 town 4 scum, 6 teams of masons setup from the famed Legends games~
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Apr 21, 2020 06:45
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CapitalistPig posted:I need a replacement for Bastard mafia , day 2 just started. put me in coach
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Apr 21, 2020 13:50
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CapitalistPig posted:I need a replacement for Bastard mafia , day 2 just started. That isn't currently a player that is in the game, dead or alive.
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Apr 21, 2020 19:20
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Some bastard mod you are
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Apr 21, 2020 19:21
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Yeah but ill replace in anyway Jen X fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Apr 21, 2020 |
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Apr 21, 2020 19:46
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Hey mafia goons, just posting for some quick advice. I'm running a game with friends on WhatsApp. Never modded a game before or actually properly played mafia myself. I've just read games here and there over the years on SA. I've put together a scenario, 11 players - 7 town including a doc, tracker and cop (open to change this considering the anti-cop sentiment I was reading back in this thread), 3 scum including a role blocker and a 3rd party mason recruiter. Do you think that balance is okay in terms of town to scum and with the roles? All newbies playing. If it goes well I'll look at running a version in the games room on here as well.
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Apr 22, 2020 13:09
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Is this play by post via whatsapp, or a face-time like scenario? Live play vs play by post are 2 very different beasts. If you're limited to phones only then I would recommend standardising roles as much as possible until you ensure the format works correctly; then add in variety once you know people are comfortable with it. A standard cop in this scenario is fine, particularly if you have players who don't usually play Werewolf/Mafia and are unsure of roles. I think a rolecop might be interesting for the scum team as well.
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Apr 22, 2020 13:21
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Oh yep, should've said - it will be play by post. Flavour is Netflix originals characters in lockdown so I have got some roles linked to their flavour. E.g. Hooper from Stranger Things is the cop, Joe Exotic is the mason recruiter. Debating whether to get (or at least encourage) people to post in-character or if they should be hiding their character to ensure people can't guess their role off the bat. I guess as it's newbies the role guessing won't be as much of a worry. Edit: phone posting so didn't respond to all of the post. Rolecop for scum is a good idea. Roleblocker, rolecop and basic goon isn't too strong of a scum team?
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Apr 22, 2020 13:28
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Wafflecop posted:Hey mafia goons, just posting for some quick advice. I'm running a game with friends on WhatsApp. Never modded a game before or actually properly played mafia myself. I've just read games here and there over the years on SA. Wafflecop posted:Oh yep, should've said - it will be play by post. I suggest cutting the cop and just having: 1 Roleblocker 1 Rolecop 1 Goon (vanilla scum) 1 Doc 1 Tracker 5 Vanilla Town For a new group of players I think the 3P mason recruiter might be a little challenging to understand/deal with (as well as adding additional modding burden in managing the masonries), and keeping power roles light is a good way to introduce people to mafia-likes. You can swap one of the VT for a cop if you want but I don't think the setup needs it. Alternately, if this is meant to be a friendly WhatsApp game, you could also consider running something like One Night Ultimate Werewolf which eliminates the usual mafia issue of "dead people sit around and twiddle their thumbs" while still capturing the general vibe of scumhunting. Podima fucked around with this message at 13:39 on Apr 22, 2020 |
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Apr 22, 2020 13:32
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Podima posted:Alternately, if this is meant to be a friendly WhatsApp game, you could also consider running something like One Night Ultimate Werewolf which eliminates the usual mafia issue of "dead people sit around and twiddle their thumbs" while still capturing the general vibe of scumhunting. This is the best idea for live mafia in my opinion.
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Apr 22, 2020 13:36
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My personal opinion is that newbie games should be interesting games, to get new players hooked. I don't feel like a Roleblocker + Rolecop + Standard scum is an overpowered combo, and it will encourage discussion about who's doing the NK later in the game if 1 of them dies. If these are all new players perhaps easing them in with something very simple like the One Night Ultimate series. Though I am not sure how it would be interpreted to play-by-post. Again if these are new players: KISS Keep it simple stupid.
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Apr 22, 2020 13:39
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Podima posted:consider running something like One Night Ultimate Werewolf  quote:which eliminates the usual mafia issue of "dead people sit around and twiddle their thumbs" while still capturing the general vibe of scumhunting. I very much am a fan of Blood on the Clock Towers implementation of "Dead players still have their vote" for live games. It's so much more interesting to still be dead, and be able to influence the game.
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Apr 22, 2020 13:41
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Infinitum posted:
The mechanic is neat but I feel like you either have to janitor all flips, which drastically changes the game you're playing, or you end up with confirmed mafia voting which drastically changes the game.
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Apr 22, 2020 13:53
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Thanks for the advice all - really helpful. I'm quite married (pun intended) to the 3p recruiter role because of the flavour - you get offered a teenth of meth and are inducted into the Tiger Tweakers masonry. I don't think it will be too much modding burden, they won't have any night actions and it will just be a separate WhatsApp group. I'll do what Pod said with the other roles, I'll leave the town cop out but give the scum a rolecop.
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Apr 22, 2020 14:04
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If you want to make the mason interesting later on, and probably not for their first game, a game I played in recently gave the mason recruiter the ability to execute the person they recruited. Which is 1.) Great because it encourages participation in the masonry, and 2.) Hilarious because you're essentially judge jury and executioner on the poor sap you invited. Amnistar posted:The mechanic is neat but I feel like you either have to janitor all flips, which drastically changes the game you're playing, or you end up with confirmed mafia voting which drastically changes the game. I've seen it house ruled a couple of different ways, the one I liked best was if you get caught as scum/demon team you get a free drink at the bar that was hosting the event as you might be sitting out a few rounds of voting  In the end the standard way of BotCT play is fine, as you only have a single vote to cast as a dead player. Infinitum fucked around with this message at 14:11 on Apr 22, 2020 |
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Apr 22, 2020 14:09
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Wafflecop posted:Thanks for the advice all - really helpful. I'm quite married (pun intended) to the 3p recruiter role because of the flavour - you get offered a teenth of meth and are inducted into the Tiger Tweakers masonry. I don't think it will be too much modding burden, they won't have any night actions and it will just be a separate WhatsApp group. Couple things to keep in mind: - the recruitment should be a night action and thus trackable (essentially a red herring for the tracker) - define what the recruiter's win condition is - is it just "survive to endgame" or is it something like "successfully recruit 3 people"?
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Apr 22, 2020 14:10
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Yeah definitely make sure the recruiter has a clear win condition. If they just win with town then there’s no point making them neutral.
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Apr 22, 2020 15:52
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4 spots left in my game, newbies very welcome!
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Apr 22, 2020 21:28
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Podima posted:Couple things to keep in mind: Can their win condition not be that they win if only the mason are alive? Or is that mathematically impossible, or close to, because of the number of players? Worked it out, with maximum kills the recruiter would win D/N5 with either condition. Technically recruiting three as condition would secure victory earlier and save going through the motions lunching one and recruiting the last person that night. I'm leaning towards Masons only survivors win condition in case there is a no lunch day. Also they could choose not to lunch to confusion at the end. I bet the recruiter will get lunched off first day anyway haha. Filled my game up, starting tomorrow. Just finishing role PMs tonight
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Apr 22, 2020 23:36
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Here are a few viable win conditions: * Win (and abscond from the game) if only masonry members are alive - this will be nearly impossible and could lead to a sudden endgame situation if the recruiter absconds and leaves scum in control of the vote by majority * Successfully recruit 3 people to the masonry, in order to win and abscond (doable at earliest on Day 4, very challenging) * Survive till end of game, wins with either faction (so basically a survivor plus a masonry recruiter) Some quick numbers to illustrate why the "recruit 3 people" goal is tough... D1: 7/3/1 (masonry recruits: 0, assume town executed) N1: 6/3/1 (assume successful NK on non-masonry, masonry recruitment) D2: 5/3/1 (masonry recruits: 1, assume town executed) N2: 4/3/1 (assume successful NK on non-masonry, masonry recruitment) D3: 3/3/1 (masonry recruits: 2, this is EXLO - town loses if they don't execute scum today) From here, either: - townie executed, scum endgame, masonry recruiter loses. - scum executed, it's 2/2/1 for D3 assuming the masonry recruiter doesn't get killed, and the masonry recruiter will recruit their third and abscond - which means scum win with a 2/2 tie! So in that sense, letting a third party masonry recruiter live to endgame is a bad idea for town and a good idea for scum. I will now proceed to elaborate on why this means survivors should be a policy execution in the next seventy-one posts,
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Apr 22, 2020 23:51
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let them recruit one person and then they inherit that person's win condition. But keep the masonry unconfirmed 
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Apr 23, 2020 00:09
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3 scum and 1 3P in 11 players is a lot. I'd say if you're going to have a 3P that can abscond from the game, then only have 2 scum. You generally want 1 non-town for every 3 town. Think of the best and worst case scenarios for all of your alignments. When can the game end for them if they get absolutely everything right? If it can be much faster for one side then you need to give them something to balance it out.
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Apr 23, 2020 01:20
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Also hi, redirectors of all kinds are awful, but any janitor that doesn't unjanitor at some point during the game are the worst. If you're gonna have a janitor, town needs to be able to get rid of them and have it retroactively reveal the flip when they do.
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Apr 23, 2020 01:22
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I'm going to have the recruiter's win condition be recruiting three. Upon successful third recruitment they will abscond the following morning. Recruits' win conditions won't change on being recruited and will be reminded of this on recruitment. Recruits' best interest will be to bus the recruiter asap but may well not realise this.
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Apr 23, 2020 01:40
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Asiina posted:Also hi, redirectors of all kinds are awful, but any janitor that doesn't unjanitor at some point during the game are the worst. If you're gonna have a janitor, town needs to be able to get rid of them and have it retroactively reveal the flip when they do. honestly just commit to the game being flipless
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Apr 23, 2020 01:47
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Jump King posted:honestly just commit to the game being flipless alternatively: don't
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Apr 23, 2020 03:37
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im around but voting angel wolf is probably the right thing to do so i shant move
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Apr 23, 2020 03:42
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Jump King posted:honestly just commit to the game being flipless George Kansas posted:alternatively: don't I feel like this is mafia distilled to its purest form.
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Apr 23, 2020 03:42
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Toalpaz posted:im around but voting angel wolf is probably the right thing to do so i shant move Did it work
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Apr 23, 2020 06:39
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I'm late to the Cop discussion, but there are many alternatives to a standard Cop which are about as fallible as a Cop in a game with Millers/Godfathers/Framers/etc. but make it explicit to the player how their role can go wrong. For example: Communication Cop: Investigate someone and find out if they're able to communicate out of thread. Finds scum, misses most 3Ps, mistakes masons etc. for scum. Danger Cop (aka Gunsmith): Investigate someone and find out if they have a killing role. Finds scum, misses sympathizers, mistakes vigs etc. for scum. Connection Cop: Investigate two players and find out if they're the same alignment or different. Won't tell you exactly who the scum is. Mistakes 3Ps for scum. Can give a false negative if you pick two scum, or a misleading result if you pick a Scum and a 3P and after one flips, assume the other to be Town. Vanilla Cop: Good for role-light setups. Investigate someone and find out if they're Vanilla Town or not. Mistakes power roles and 3Ps for scum. Has the added benefit of making Vanilla Town a good thing to be, since people are ordinarily disappointed by that.
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Apr 23, 2020 21:15
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Rolecop is my favorite one in games with alignment specific roles. Miller, Godfather, Ninja, Hitman, Janitor. Then you throw in a scum doc in a game with only scum kills to have real fun. And you get to give alignment neutral roles too, watcher, tracker, jailer, roleblocker and see people try and decide if it makes them likely town or likely scum.
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Apr 23, 2020 21:22
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I also like redirector roles that end up telling the player who they targeted, or at least that they think they went to the wrong person. Partially for reasons of game balance, but also because I usually include flavor with night results in my game and sometimes it can be difficult to write flavor that makes sense and isn't either completely misleading or giving the redirection away. So, usually but not always in my games, redirector-type roles give results like "You head out to track Grandicap, but when you arrive at what you thought was his room, you find Hal sleeping there instead. Hal Incandenza went nowhere N2."
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Apr 23, 2020 21:26
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Also in general, roles that establish someone as "definitely/almost certainly Town" or "possibly Scum" are better than ones that do "probably Town" or "definitely Scum." Because playing an amazing scum game but getting caught by night actions sucks, but being confirmed Town is the most fun thing that can happen to you in a game of Mafia. (Well, for me anyway.)
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Apr 23, 2020 21:30
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I know at some point I had a whole setup around alignment reversal. Like both the godfather and the miller were called alignment inverters or something. They both had the same role, that they would investigate as the opposite of their alignment. And the scum team had an active role that switched what alignment a player investigated as for the night. Could target scum defensively or town offensively. But I got it to a point where I felt it was mechanically balanced and the investigative roles had enough bite to be useful and enough foils to be interesting, but I felt it wouldn't be a fun game to play so I scrapped it. I think it was something like: 1x Alignment Inverter (Scum) 1x Active Alignment Inverter (Scum) 1x Jailer (Scum) 1x Alignment Inverter (Town) 2x Cop (Town) 1x Unconfirmed Mason Rolecop (Town) 1x Unconfirmed Mason (Town) 1x Roleblocker(Town) 4x Vanilla (Town) I think I had the 3rd scum as a Cop instead of a Jailer at one point too.
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Apr 23, 2020 21:32
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| # ? Jun 4, 2024 20:17 |
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Yeah, I decided a long time ago that setups with too much of that logic-puzzle aspect end up bogging down the game and making it un-fun for a lot of people. On the other hand, all-Vanilla games are boring. Ideal night action-related scenario to come up in a game is someone ends up with a result that's obviously useful but also obviously missing a piece of the puzzle and claims it. From there a few things can happen, all of them fun:
I try to design my setups so there's at least a decent chance something like that happens. That and/or a few roles that don't necessarily produce confusing results, but interact in such a way that something crazy could happen but usually won't. That way people don't expect too much night action madness from my games, but it's always there as a possibility, and in those rare games that the perfect storm does occur, it makes for a memorable experience. Between that and funny and/or dramatic flavor, I find it gets people engaged. Enough so to talk a lot but not so much it distracts from scum hunting or undermines the basic nature of the game. xopods fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Apr 23, 2020 |
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Apr 23, 2020 21:47
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