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Sakurazuka posted:Seriously, I want to see someone attempting to micromanage the combat in FF12 without using gambits and see how far they get without going insane.
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Apr 23, 2020 11:39
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FF12 is one of the most boring games I have ever played, I can't imagine how mind numbing it would have been without gambits
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Apr 23, 2020 11:40
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Its pretty clear that the gambits are responsible for making the game playable like, at all. Without them it would be an insanely clunky rpg. Mashing the attack button to kill monsters is fine honestly, it wasn't really a problem that needed to be fixed/
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Apr 23, 2020 11:46
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homeless snail posted:Then don't set up your gambits homeless snail posted:it absolutely doesn't define the combat system and the game is completely playable without using gambits homeless snail posted:I mean yeah I wouldn't go without some basic targeting gambits at the very least lol ff12 bad CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK fucked around with this message at 11:54 on Apr 23, 2020 |
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Apr 23, 2020 11:50
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FFXII good fight me 
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Apr 23, 2020 11:52
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:lol I think the real problem here is gamer efficiency brain, its not an all or nothing thing, its not a system you have to min/max
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Apr 23, 2020 11:56
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homeless snail posted:Who the gently caress likes pressing the attack button in JRPGs really, its the least interesting button in these games. If you do though that's great, you can just not use the attack gambits!! Its totally up to personal choice. I don't like pressing it so like I said, I set those gambits up I never got used to holding the button to attack in FF7R - when someone's swinging a sword or throwing punches you gotta mash it.
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Apr 23, 2020 11:57
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I mean it doesn't really matter because if you use gambits or not it's still utterly tedious one way or another.
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Apr 23, 2020 11:58
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Sakurazuka posted:I mean it doesn't really matter because if you use gambits or not it's still utterly tedious one way or another.
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Apr 23, 2020 12:00
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FF12 owns though, I Hope This Has Helped™
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Apr 23, 2020 12:02
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its just being like "You don't have to use the gambit system, you dumbass, just play this tedious and clunky micromanagey system of pausing instead." Its just disingenuous. Its fine if you like a lot of stuff about the game but its balanced and built around the gambit system pretty obviously. To compare it to the turbo button is a complete self own, to use your own words. Its obvious why it is not like a turbo button lol. They put it in there because they want you to use it and they expect you to use it, its a major intended mechanic in the game.
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Apr 23, 2020 12:13
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Hudson sold the turbo controllers, they wanted you to use it for Star Soldier
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Apr 23, 2020 12:14
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Real Time With Pause sucks in any RPG, except for I guess FF7R, the first not-bad RTwP system.
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Apr 23, 2020 12:30
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homeless snail posted:Hudson sold the turbo controllers, they wanted you to use it for Star Soldier did you get a free turbo controller when you bought star soldier
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Apr 23, 2020 12:38
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I have no concept for the broken brained "FFXII is bad and I can't imagine managing this stuff that is ENTIRELY THE ATB COMBAT SYSTEM because I can also move characters independently, even though that literally doesn't matter and when I input a command the character will move on their own." Because like, if you can't stand that, you can't stand ATB combat period. That's all it is seriously, go play it, you can not touch the stick and just input commands when ATB pops up, and you can set it to wait mode, just like an ATB game. The issue is not the game, it's your brain. All Gambits are telling you, is that ATB actually sucks.
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Apr 23, 2020 12:47
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I thought it was generally accepted that ATB sucks?
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Apr 23, 2020 12:49
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exquisite tea posted:Real Time With Pause sucks in any RPG, except for I guess FF7R, the first not-bad RTwP system. I definitely agree with this, it's the first time I've seen a game nail it. It could improve a little... like gambits for non-controlled characters
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Apr 23, 2020 12:51
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I dislike using the term rtwp for anything other than the classic crpg style games where you control the whole party simultaneously. Sure, it's technically correct but for gameplay purposes those other games play so differently that you might as well start calling paradox games rtwp.
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Apr 23, 2020 12:55
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FF7R is absolutely conventional RTwP minus the isometric perspective though. Like if the camera were slightly elevated it'd be almost indistinguishable from the actions you'd be doing in a party-based CRPG.
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Apr 23, 2020 13:00
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Square-Enix is now threatening legal action against people who uploaded or streamed the ending.
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Apr 23, 2020 13:05
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It's more of a mass effect style action game than rtwp imo
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Apr 23, 2020 13:05
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Onmi posted:I have no concept for the broken brained "FFXII is bad and I can't imagine managing this stuff that is ENTIRELY THE ATB COMBAT SYSTEM because I can also move characters independently, even though that literally doesn't matter and when I input a command the character will move on their own." Because like, if you can't stand that, you can't stand ATB combat period. That's all it is seriously, go play it, you can not touch the stick and just input commands when ATB pops up, and you can set it to wait mode, just like an ATB game. The issue is not the game, it's your brain. All Gambits are telling you, is that ATB actually sucks. FF12 is especially bad though because the menus are not designed to used by humans and it takes 30 seconds to select a single action from its slow, laggy interface.
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Apr 23, 2020 13:06
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Necrothatcher posted:Square-Enix is now threatening legal action against people who uploaded or streamed the ending. As has been repeatedly stated. That's not true.  I'm very positive that many legal letters have such poo poo grammar, and horrid spelling and punctuation. Also, many companies are known to email someone to ask them to take something down. Many legal letters conclude with "Best," Also, this is the only person even claiming to have it done. Onmi fucked around with this message at 13:11 on Apr 23, 2020 |
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Apr 23, 2020 13:09
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Onmi posted:As has been repeatedly stated. That's not true. Oh, in that case ignore - I saw some people I generally trust on Twitter talking about it.
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Apr 23, 2020 13:13
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Back on FF7 talk  Interesting that they state that Biggs is seriously injured, but not that he passes, but they directly state that Jessie dies.
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Apr 23, 2020 13:22
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Onmi posted:Back on FF7 talk I think the gloves on the desk at the end are not to show that she's alive, but rather a memento someone grabbed for Biggs when he wakes up. Wedge maybe?
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Apr 23, 2020 13:30
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canepazzo posted:I think the gloves on the desk at the end are not to show that she's alive, but rather a memento someone grabbed for Biggs when he wakes up. Wedge maybe? Confirmed: Wedge is inside Cait Sith's Mog Suit. At disc 3, he'll remove the mascot head and reveal to the party he was alive the entire time.
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Apr 23, 2020 13:31
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I don't know how much you wanna read into the tea leaves of who survived or whatever but they recently did an AMA with the "main cast" of FFVII and all four playable characters were there along with the VAs for Biggs and Jessie, but no Wedge.
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Apr 23, 2020 13:46
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Sakurazuka posted:FF12 is especially bad though because the menus are not designed to used by humans and it takes 30 seconds to select a single action from its slow, laggy interface. Sounds like a problem with your hardware, it's instant for me
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Apr 23, 2020 13:47
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The Avalanche crew all having big dramatic death scenes with Cloud there to comfort them, only for them all to survive in the end gives me Kung Pow flashbacks. Especially if Wedge is the only one who actually dies since he's the Wimp Lo of the team.
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Apr 23, 2020 13:52
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Andrast posted:I dislike using the term rtwp for anything other than the classic crpg style games where you control the whole party simultaneously. There's so many genre differentiations and different interpretations of them that I'm ready to call everything a pong-like.
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Apr 23, 2020 14:24
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:Mine are Marle: Big sword, but no skills Cloud: *extremely butthurt* I got skills! Tifa: *as if to a small child* Be nice! Cloud: *extremely pouty* 'm doing my best.
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Apr 23, 2020 14:24
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zedprime posted:There's people who call paradox games rtwp. Yeah and I hate them! I'm very aware that I'm just being an old man yelling at clouds right now though
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Apr 23, 2020 14:45
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Veib posted:I think XII is an ok game, but it most definitely has the worst and most boring final boss in the entire series, both as a battle and as a character Barthandelus is the worst antagonist in the series and it's not even close "Now watch me blow up a city-sized airship full of my own goons for absolutely no reason whatsoever other than my Seething Contempt For You Puny Humans!!"
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Apr 23, 2020 14:46
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homeless snail posted:If someone feels like they've optimized all the fun out of the game, that's really on them. I mean, I agree with your overall point that FFXII is good--it's one of my favorites--but I have to disagree with this point. Players being able to optimize the fun out of a game is a legitimate design issue. Obviously every game has it to some extent--it's impossible to design a perfectly-balanced game--but when it's easy to make the game boring for yourself just by playing what seems to be the "right" way, that's not the player's fault. That said I happen to like the gambit system so I think this might be more of a "different tastes" thing than an "optimizing the fun out of the game" thing. I like setting up complex gambits to handle specific situations and switching them up for tough bosses. For me that's not optimizing the fun out. Also I definitely wouldn't want to micromanage FFXII's combat without gambits. Maybe if I set the combat speed to the slowest possible. It's not really the kind of interface that lends itself to really micromanaged real-time-with-pause combat like a zoomed-out top-down view with a mouse and keyboard would. Harrow fucked around with this message at 14:53 on Apr 23, 2020 |
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Apr 23, 2020 14:50
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The gambit system and the encounter design both being extremely simplistic and shallow is where FF12 fails for me. I absolutely love the idea of optimizing my AI team to take on different enemy types but the game really isn't made for that. It's worse than the tactics system in Dragon Age Origins and that system was pretty terrible. As it is, the gambit system has enough depth in it for like a 5 hour game and the there are almost no encounters that take advantage of the very small amount of depth it has.
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Apr 23, 2020 14:54
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guts and bolts posted:I'm curious to see how much of this "FANS HATE FF7R'S ENDING" consensus is legit. I'm worried about wading into conflagrations like subreddits and poo poo, and I've never found many video gamer reviewer YouTubers interesting or authentic. I've heard ITT and elsewhere that a lot of the reviews from YouTubers are largely positive anyway? I dunno how to take the game's temperature re: reception. It wouldn't impact my feelings at all, but I think in the back of my mind I'm worried that if enough people are vocal about how bad it sucks the development team might compromise on what they're trying to do here and split the difference, walk back some of what FF7R did in sequels, etc. Three Video Game People I follow, Jim Sterling, Pat formerly of Super Best Friends and Marcus from the Cosmonaut Variety Hour all enjoyed it and they each got a lot of 'but you're allowed to dislike it!!!!!!' Generally it seems to have been well-received in most areas and you could put down the frothing rage to, well, the internet.
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Apr 23, 2020 14:55
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Edit: Double post.
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Apr 23, 2020 14:55
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Clarste posted:I thought it was generally accepted that ATB sucks? It's good in FFX-2
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Apr 23, 2020 14:56
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FFXII never clicked for me because every other Final Fantasy game starts in media res with a story that immediately hooks me and gives me a bunch of likable characters in the first ten minutes or so, then FFXII comes in and has me do Vaan's chores for like an hour and a half I gave up around the part where you get to the Viera village, desperately hoping for something resembling an interesting plot to show up, and it just... doesn't
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Apr 23, 2020 14:58
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