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was going to ask why libs itt still believe in electoralism, but that's the thing, they don't have any deeply held convictions, they're liberals
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Apr 23, 2020 15:52
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Gripweed posted:But Biden losing will not debolden them. They will fight tooth or nail to stop the left. If you want to take over the Democrat party, you can't just wait for them to agree that it's our turn and let us put our guy at the top. You actually need to build a bloc within the Democrat party that is big enough to at least make their ratfucking less total and effective. That's the absolute minimum we need if we want to see a leftwing candidate as the presidential nominee. I don't know what to believe anymore. Even if we get a great movement going the media and the DNC will never give an inch. They don't care about winning which is the hard thing for a lot of liberals to grasp. They care more about the patronage network and the donors. The donors get just as many tax cuts and probably more deregulation with the republicans. It is the donors that really control politics especially on a national level. I don't know how it is in statehouses but this is also going to be another tough row to hoe. Whatever it takes we have to be willing. I was a heroin addict before. I had to be willing to try anything, especially advice from other people, in order to quit. I think this is one of those times where we need to be willing to try anything. There is a house election in 2020 for ross spano who is my rep. He sucks and has election finance problems. I think I am going to start there.
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Apr 23, 2020 15:59
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Venomous posted:was going to ask why libs itt still believe in electoralism, but that's the thing, they don't have any deeply held convictions, they're liberals Please elucidate how you picture this non-electoral strategy working out in practice.
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Apr 23, 2020 16:12
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I don't think there are enough Harris supporters for Biden's campaign to care about them throwing a fit but this is pretty funny regardless. https://twitter.com/BernieWon2016/status/1253042040251842564?s=19
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Apr 23, 2020 16:14
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Gripweed posted:What is the connection between Jenni's ice cream and the Democrat party?
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Apr 23, 2020 16:41
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Trump is pouring hundreds of millions of taxpayer money into his golf courses. Joe Biden will pour millions into ice cream owned by donor business interests. ICE CREAM FOR ALL. Also can't help but laugh at some people being excited that Joe promised to lower healthcare coverage age to 60. That's where he's planning to START his negotiations with Republicans. At 60. The final bill will definitely be 65. Or maybe even 70! The real answer, of course, is if he wins he will never bring it up or care about this policy at all. I think the only real thing that might come out of his presidency is more trains. But even that I put at about 25% chance. Rad Russian fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Apr 23, 2020 |
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Apr 23, 2020 16:55
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Gripweed posted:But Biden losing will not debolden them. They will fight tooth or nail to stop the left. If you want to take over the Democrat party, you can't just wait for them to agree that it's our turn and let us put our guy at the top. You actually need to build a bloc within the Democrat party that is big enough to at least make their ratfucking less total and effective. That's the absolute minimum we need if we want to see a leftwing candidate as the presidential nominee. I think what happened with the Bernie train was that the left saw the Hail Mary pass and dumped their soul into it. They want a government run by the left, and invested themselves into a shot at the shot at the presidency in the hopes of changing things from the top down. In hindsight, it was always a long shot, always a hope and prayer more than a realistic chance, because the foundation that the left movement needs wasn’t there. We need that smaller, local power base to exist both inside and outside the system. That’s the reestablishment of unions along with taking over government on the state and local level. Once we get that foothold, then we shoot for the top. Mellow Seas posted:Please elucidate how you picture this non-electoral strategy working out in practice. Strikes. Strikes and unions.
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Apr 23, 2020 16:58
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FRINGE posted:The owner is at least somewhat buddies with Perez. The owner is also on the board for the "Wexner Center for the Arts and Columbus College of Art & Design". The same Wexner that owns Victoria's Secret and also just up and gave Epstein a billion dollars, power of attorney, and a crazy expensive house in NYC for no apparent reason. This country is an absurd spectacle.
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Apr 23, 2020 17:01
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Marxalot posted:The owner is also on the board for the "Wexner Center for the Arts and Columbus College of Art & Design". The same Wexner that owns Victoria's Secret and also just up and gave Epstein a billion dollars, power of attorney, and a crazy expensive house in NYC for no apparent reason. Lol. Of course they have a childs desert maker around. 
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Apr 23, 2020 17:16
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Apparently Warren's brother died of COVID-19.
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Apr 23, 2020 17:18
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PeterCat posted:One of the two is going to be president. I’d be careful with this take if I were you. There’s an argument to be made that Biden losing is actually better for the left in the long run since it damages the center’s claims to electability (pretty much it’s only selling point). Making “YOU HAVE TO VOTE FOR ONE OF THEM!” literally your only talking point may actually push more people to vote for Trump out of spite than for Biden out of some vague sense of civic duty. Don’t say you weren’t warned.
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Apr 23, 2020 17:57
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https://twitter.com/jackallisonLOL/status/1253356070178873345?s=19
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Apr 23, 2020 17:57
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porfiria posted:I don't think it's unreasonable to conclude that Biden and Trump are similar enough that the differences between them are negligible. I truly do not understand this kind of thinking. Do you think nearly 50,000 people in the US would be dead right now if Biden were president instead of Trump? porfiria posted:Like, can you say we're any worse off right now than we would be if McCain had won in 2008? Isn't there a reasonable case to be made that that would have been better since Obama wouldn't have been able to cripple the Democratic Party as much as he did? I think plenty of people, including me, can say that Obamacare significantly helped them.
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Apr 23, 2020 17:58
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FRINGE posted:The owner is at least somewhat buddies with Perez. Lmao the out of touch ice cream segment was also product placement for a friend of the democratic party, good stuff dems
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Apr 23, 2020 18:00
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Cpt_Obvious posted:I think what happened with the Bernie train was that the left saw the Hail Mary pass and dumped their soul into it. They want a government run by the left, and invested themselves into a shot at the shot at the presidency in the hopes of changing things from the top down. In hindsight, it was always a long shot, always a hope and prayer more than a realistic chance, because the foundation that the left movement needs wasn’t there. We need that smaller, local power base to exist both inside and outside the system. That’s the reestablishment of unions along with taking over government on the state and local level. You are absolutely right. The left is going up against the republicans and the democrats. A prime example is that there is burgeoning union at amazon. The democrats used to be the party of unions. Now it would go against their donors.
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Apr 23, 2020 18:06
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Ither posted:I truly do not understand this kind of thinking. Yes because it was the result of decades worth of degradation and privatization of our institutions, erosion of trust in our government and media, suppression of any kind of collective identity, the neoliberalization of our economy where everything is run on razor thin margins to maximize profitability and not because the bad orange man has total control over everything like he's playing Civ.
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Apr 23, 2020 18:14
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Ytlaya posted:The reason you're wrong is that you're ignoring all the outright harmful things that still happen under Democratic administrations. Countless people are still needlessly murdered abroad or deported, and there's a significant chance that Biden will attempt social security cuts like Obama did (or stuff like median black wealth dramatically decreasing under Obama). I'm very well aware that bad things happen under Democratic administrations. Do you actually have the numbers? Let's compare the amount of people killed/maimed/displaced vs the amount of people who were saved, healed, or immigrated to the US. Let's do this for Obama & Trump. And then let's predict what it would be for Trump's 2nd Term vs Biden's 1st term. We can finally settle this once and for all with Math. Fly Molo posted:No, it's not. It's a "leftward shift" in the same way that Kamala's announced policy was a "leftward shift": a hyper-focused means-tested pile of garbage, designed to avoid helping "the wrong kind of people." It doesn't solve any of the underlying problems with our for-profit education culture in the US. Students will continue to be impoverished and fail to finish school, or graduate with tens or hundreds of thousands in debt, because they are forced to go to college in order to survive in today's job market. And that debt isn't even dischargeable through bankruptcy. *The bold was added by me* You're right. It doesn't solve the problem. You're right. It's not enough. But it would help some people. Which is my point. What's Trump's proposal for student debt? Does it help anyone?
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Apr 23, 2020 18:16
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Wicked Them Beats posted:The same people who believe Biden will forgive student debt (well, some student debt) are the same people who think that Biden will do anything to fix healthcare, or stop foreign wars, or end the war on drugs, or protect Social Security. The cycle continues! Ither posted:
But really, it's called being optimistic. What else can do you do at this point? Cry? Rage? Sure if that makes you feel better. I did that on the day after Super Tuesday. But now, since I can't leave the United States, I have to try to make it better. Even if it's only a little.
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Apr 23, 2020 18:17
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"It sucks that Bernie didn't win, but let's try to move Biden left."
"It's impossible to move Biden leftwards"
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I've said this before and will keep saying it, but only a Dem can cut Social Security, for the same reason only a Dem president could reform welfare. The last major obstacle to slashing what tattered remains of the social safety net still persist is the Democratic Party, and something like 80% of that obstacle evaporates if the cuts are proposed by a Democrat who is making what they will advertise as "pragmatic decisions." A President Biden WILL propose cuts to Social Security and Medicare, and the token Republican resistance that stood alongside the left wing to prevent Obama from doing the same won't be there this time, since the Republicans won't have to swallow accepting a deal with a black man. "But Biden isn't running on cutting Social Security," you exclaim! Yeah well I don't recall Obama running any commercials saying we had to cut the social safety net or that he was going to turn the economy over to the same bankers who gutted it in the first place, but see if you can guess what happened. And if you believe that Biden would have immediately shut down America to save as many lives as possible from COVID-19: well we already had a test run of Biden's response on a smaller scale in Wisconsin, didn't we? He sent out his advisors to go on national television and lie to people about the safety of voting, and this decision will literally kill people. Do you think a President Biden would have accepted the political fallout of making the brave choice early on, when people didn't yet broadly accept the extent of the crisis? Do you actually believe that we would have taken action back in December or January despite the lack of political will, at a time when the pundits would have stood 100% in lockstep calling it an overreaction? If you do, then please explain marching voters to their deaths not three weeks ago. Where was "we have to listen to the science on this" when something Biden personally wanted was at stake, and how can you believe he would practice his power any better if he had more of it? Please stop being so willfully ignorant.
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Apr 23, 2020 18:37
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Gripweed posted:
Cpt_Obvious posted:I think what happened with the Bernie train was that the left saw the Hail Mary pass and dumped their soul into it. They want a government run by the left, and invested themselves into a shot at the shot at the presidency in the hopes of changing things from the top down. In hindsight, it was always a long shot, always a hope and prayer more than a realistic chance, because the foundation that the left movement needs wasn’t there. We need that smaller, local power base to exist both inside and outside the system. That’s the reestablishment of unions along with taking over government on the state and local level. Oh hey, good takes! Speaking of which, I just got my first campaign email from a guy running for a Texas DNC slot - you know, the ones elected at the state convention. And, well, at least he touts his pro-union-ness, but let's see what he emphasizes: https://mailchi.mp/dennisspeight.com/speightfordnc quote:It's official - I'm running for re-election to the DNC also note the SDEC endorsements; these are the Senate District chairs, a position I forgot existed in Texas until the most recent county party meeting lol
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Apr 23, 2020 18:45
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Ither posted:The cycle continues! Can you please explain how locking leftists out of federal power for the next 8-12 years will make the United States better off? Because that’s what happens if Biden wins. He’s going to giddily destroy any left wing activism he can while consolidating the corporate stranglehold on our government. A Biden presidency will also almost certainly gently caress the world with climate change. His climate advisor made a million dollars off of fossil fuels. It’s ri-god-drat-diculous. 8 years of Biden environmental policies will no net decrease in emissions in the US. We’re out of time. Making a short cited decision to back Biden because “orange man bad” is consigning the young to a climate apocalypse. This poo poo is coming so much faster and harder than people can conceptualize. It’s going to be so devastating to the entire planet. Projections are for a BILLION refugees in 2050 on our current trajectory, which Biden’s plan does absolutely nothing to change. If we let Biden slither into power, the sense of urgency and outrage over climate change will be heavily mitigated. He’s as much of a science denier as Trump is on this issue, but the media narrative will be that the serious adults are fixing the problem instead of giant morons ignoring the threat. Think about what a Biden presidency would actually look like. Corporate ghouls staffing every major position while our perpetual war crimes and crimes against humanity get neatly swept under the rug. Maybe you’re willing to gamble away the future of the entire planet to feel less embarrassed about America, but you shouldn’t be.
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Apr 23, 2020 18:59
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Ither posted:But now, since I can't leave the United States, I have to try to make it better. Even if it's only a little. It is guaranteed that things won't become better under Biden. I can understand viewing it as some sort of harm reduction (even if I disagree), but it makes no sense at all to view it as some sort of incremental gain.
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Apr 23, 2020 19:02
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Ither posted:I'm very well aware that bad things happen under Democratic administrations. how do you bold text?
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Apr 23, 2020 19:03
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Ither posted:The cycle continues! ive found that eating frosting studded with ativan helps.
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Apr 23, 2020 19:04
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ManBoyChef posted:how do you bold text? [ b ] write bold text here [ / b ] but without the spaces in the brackets
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Apr 23, 2020 19:09
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RasperFat posted:[ b ] write bold text here [ / b ] but without the spaces in the brackets thanks man
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Apr 23, 2020 19:11
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ManBoyChef posted:thanks man Also, if you're using a browser on PC, you can use Ctrl-B/I/U like in any word processor to do the same thing. There's a handful of other shortcuts choochachako(sp) added way back when
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Apr 23, 2020 19:18
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Ither posted:I'm very well aware that bad things happen under Democratic administrations. Joe Biden, Student Debt Advocate is some galaxy brain poo poo
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Apr 23, 2020 19:18
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RasperFat posted:If we let Biden slither into power, the sense of urgency and outrage over climate change will be heavily mitigated. He’s as much of a science denier as Trump is on this issue, but the media narrative will be that the serious adults are fixing the problem instead of giant morons ignoring the threat. Yeah, and as I effortposted above, the "serious adults" that are living in the Biden campaign host are from the oil and gas industries.
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Apr 23, 2020 19:19
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If you ever claimed that Warren is a progressive now is as good a time as any to apologize https://twitter.com/IramiOF/status/1253346945202094082?s=20
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Apr 23, 2020 19:21
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Wicked Them Beats posted:If you ever claimed that Warren is a progressive now is as good a time as any to apologize Holy poo poo, wasn't Pressley in particular a super enthusiastic and vocal supporter of Warren's? 
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Apr 23, 2020 19:31
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Vote Jesse Ventura. He tried to start a wrestling union He made friend of Trump, Vince McMahon, scream with impotent rate because he lost a court case and had to pay out boy Jesse. He isn't a rapist as far as I know. Shite the line is that low but I didnt vote for Biden.
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Apr 23, 2020 19:34
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Wicked Them Beats posted:If you ever claimed that Warren is a progressive now is as good a time as any to apologize LMAO goddamn she could not have picked a better way to say "gently caress you". However, I'm sure this will get rectified if it makes enough noise in the media. The "more endorsements forthcoming" caveat doing a hell of a lot of work here. This has to sting for AOC in particular who has been bending over backwards to make allies with centrist Dems and position herself as the future leader of the Sanders coalition, but with better dealmaking ability. She doesn't need Warren's endorsement but the message is loud and clear. She also didn't endorse Jess Scarane or McKayla Wilkes. Mat Cauthon fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Apr 23, 2020 |
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Apr 23, 2020 19:37
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Perestroika posted:Holy poo poo, wasn't Pressley in particular a super enthusiastic and vocal supporter of Warren's? Yeah, she endorsed her while the rest of the squad went for Bernie. Though I don't know what Pressley said about warren lately, maybe she soured on her after super Tuesday and the billionaire super pac. Still though, lol, once a snake always a snake. e: Mat Cauthon posted:She also didn't endorse Jess Scarane or McKayla Wilkes. I'm gonna assume all the people she endorsed are like the four cia white ladies who call themselves "the badasses."
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Apr 23, 2020 19:40
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Ither posted:I'm very well aware that bad things happen under Democratic administrations. How interested are you in defending open air slave markets? I need to know how much effort I should put into this ahead of time.
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Apr 23, 2020 19:42
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Gonzo McFee posted:Vote Jesse Ventura. He was kinda lame as our gov but I did support his opposition to the state buying the Twins a new stadium to lose in. Too bad they got one anyway after him. Vikings too. 
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Apr 23, 2020 19:44
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Gripweed posted:What is the connection between Jenni's ice cream and the Democrat party? Pelosi is corrupt https://twitter.com/gumby4christ/status/1253318165498658816?s=20
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Apr 23, 2020 19:49
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Uncle Wemus posted:He was kinda lame as our gov but I did support his opposition to the state buying the Twins a new stadium to lose in. i thought he was also a massive proponent of the light rail system?
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Apr 23, 2020 19:49
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Jesse will expose the New World Order and put Union buster Hulk Hogan in his place.
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Apr 23, 2020 19:56
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RasperFat posted:Can you please explain how locking leftists out of federal power for the next 8-12 years will make the United States better off? Right, because if the Republicans win, they will obviously welcome us with open arms and certainly won't consolidate the current corporate stranglehold on our government. RasperFat posted:A Biden presidency will also almost certainly gently caress the world with climate change. His climate advisor made a million dollars off of fossil fuels. It’s ri-god-drat-diculous. 8 years of Biden environmental policies will no net decrease in emissions in the US. We’re out of time. Making a short cited decision to back Biden because “orange man bad” is consigning the young to a climate apocalypse. Look, either Biden or Trump is going to become president. If you know that one weird trick that will prevent either of them from becoming president, we'd all love to hear it because November will be here before you know it. None of us wanted Biden. Absolutely none of us at all. But I think it would help if we regained some perspective and stop giving the GOP credit that is completely undeserved. Let's keep in mind that the GOP is the party of authoritarianism and fascism. It's their brand. A brand that is kept cohesive and unified by all party members and elected officials keeping in lockstep with each other. A unity that is shared with their base thanks to a vast billionaire-funded right-wing media ecosphere. The Democrats wished they had that level of cohesion. I'm not enthused about Biden. I'm loving horrified. But I think if some people here would step outside of the forums and, maybe, come visit a red southern state, you'd see what's at stake. Trump is not just one lone symptom of our sick political system. With Trump at the helm, the GOP at large can and will exercise whatever power they have, especially if the Democrats controlled the House and Senate. Stop thinking of Trump as just a president. Think of him as an avenue for the GOP to exercise power. tl;dr: Neolib leader of fractured party >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Authoritarian leader of unified fascist party
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Apr 23, 2020 20:03
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