|
"Women For Trump EMPOWER HOUR" 
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2020 19:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 09:40 |
|
|
The Angry Bum posted:The bad guys are actually winning. Gov Evers is on the fast track to being recalled or removed entirely if he doesn't back down. Most Dem governors are facing this possibility. He should dare them to try. You keep saying this and when getting called out on it provide absolutely nothing to substantiate it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2020 19:07
|
|
|
ManBoyChef posted:can you expand a little on this? People are mad and upset. Just because they aren't out physically protesting doesn't mean there is considerable anger about stay at home policies. The people want something done and done now, not waiting for any curve to flatten or numbers to go down, they want to go about their daily lives with no disruption. This is especially true for places outside of larger cities where the virus is not as widespread. And they are not happy with Democrats telling them what to do. What should be a simple cause for unity among us all to protect each other from literally dying has become a weaponized highly partisan issue. People WANT SOMEONE TO BLAME.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2020 19:07
|
|
|
SocketWrench posted:Yeah, but you can conceal those better...unless you try busting some moves like an off duty cop You know there's gonna be that one person trying to open carry a rifle.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2020 19:07
|
|
|
SocketWrench posted:Uh, last i saw (yesterday) like every state was backing their governor that was telling them to stay home and even among Republicans the crowds crying "Back to work, fuckers" was at a super low approval. but hey, whatever I’m pretty sure he just made that up? This thread gets weird when people do that.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2020 19:08
|
|
|
Majorian posted:It's almost as if union leadership has been coopted by corporate interests for the past several decades. Mondale was more centrist than conventional wisdom makes him out to be, but Gary Hart explicitly ran to his right by trying (and largely succeeding, in retrospect) to tag Mondale as an "outdated liberal" versus Hart's own "fresh, new moderate." I think overemphasizing distinctions among policy platforms probably undersells a lot of that positioning because the relative salience of the planks doesn't really come through.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2020 19:12
|
|
|
At that point it seems more like the issue is that by then the Democrats had embraced corporate donors and abandoned populism to the point where the only lesson they were allowed to learn from losing was to move further to the right.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2020 19:14
|
|
|
The Angry Bum posted:People are mad and upset. Just because they aren't out physically protesting doesn't mean there is considerable anger about stay at home policies. The people want something done and done now, not waiting for any curve to flatten or numbers to go down, they want to go about their daily lives with no disruption. This is especially true for places outside of larger cities where the virus is not as widespread. And they are not happy with Democrats telling them what to do. What should be a simple cause for unity among us all to protect each other from literally dying has become a weaponized highly partisan issue. People WANT SOMEONE TO BLAME. Once again this wide unpopularity of governors' stay-at-home orders is something you've invented out of whole cloth. https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/20/politics/polls-stay-at-home-orders/index.html 81% of voters support a national stay at home order. 66% and 58% in two different polls believe that restrictions will be lifted too soon. The popularity of governors' responses in MI, WI, OH, and PA averages 71%.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2020 19:14
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/ewarren/status/1253332675315724289 https://twitter.com/ZTPetrizzo/status/1253355277929402368 https://twitter.com/byKateSmith/status/1253303119083175937 https://twitter.com/slpng_giants/status/1253349239373156353
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2020 19:16
|
|
|
The fact the media is giving these protests so much airtime is also a bit hosed up too. This is how the tea party really started....it just wasn't so stupid. I guess they just want to legitimize these morons.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2020 19:18
|
|
|
skeleton warrior posted:Oh, bullshit, Majorian. Give me any evidence that Mondale ran as a "center-right" candidate. oh wow how could a protege of noted child-napalming psycho warlover Hubert Humphrey not be progressive, you win
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2020 19:18
|
|
|
The Warszawa posted:Mondale was more centrist than conventional wisdom makes him out to be, but Gary Hart explicitly ran to his right by trying (and largely succeeding, in retrospect) to tag Mondale as an "outdated liberal" versus Hart's own "fresh, new moderate." I think overemphasizing distinctions among policy platforms probably undersells a lot of that positioning because the relative salience of the planks doesn't really come through. Sure, don't get me wrong - I'm not saying Hart was a progressive at all. But still, Mondale's campaign was all about austerity. When the "fresh, new moderate" has a jobs program and you don't, it's hard to argue that you're an economic progressive. (and since his running mate supported a Constitutional amendment to ban busing, it's kind of hard to argue that Mondale was a social justice candidate either)
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2020 19:20
|
|
|
ManBoyChef posted:The fact the media is giving these protests so much airtime is also a bit hosed up too. This is how the tea party really started....it just wasn't so stupid. I guess they just want to legitimize these morons. They're going to report on it because it's loving absurd. They're also reporting on it being astroturfing.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2020 19:20
|
|
|
Tired: Arguing over the 2016 election Wired: Arguing over the 1984 election In other news, https://twitter.com/KFILE/status/1253384997307899904 https://twitter.com/KFILE/status/1253387355844730880
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2020 19:20
|
|
|
ManBoyChef posted:The fact the media is giving these protests so much airtime is also a bit hosed up too. This is how the tea party really started....it just wasn't so stupid. I guess they just want to legitimize these morons. pointing and laughing at them is good for ratings, as is making people mad the legitimizing is a dangerous side effect, not the goal DaveWoo posted:Tired: Arguing over the 2016 election i will admit it's a clever workaround
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2020 19:20
|
|
|
HelloSailorSign posted:Right. You need to show people how things work at the small scale and then scale it up to the national level, because people's minds have been poisoned for years. You are not going to convince someone who has marinated in right wing media or conservative majority areas that socialism is totally cool for the whole country until you show them that it's totally cool for their area right around them. In a number of areas, national government has ignored the plight of the people constantly for decades, so some politician saying they care and they'll help is not going to get through to them beyond the tribalism that makes them always vote R. If you start showing them at the local level that in fact someone does care, someone can do something, and it does actually work, you'll start to get through to them. The takeaway from this election cycle is that we do not have enough people in the leftist tent to carry a primary challenge. That isn't an indictment on anyone, it is just the truth of what happened. Yes, people poll in support of M4A. But here's the thing: position polls don't mean poo poo if you don't have state and local backing and whipping up votes for your cause. But this isn't the end! What Sanders has done is bring leftist policy forward into the conversation, but its gonna die if we don't get out there and start putting in the work. A movement has been started that will change the internal workings of the Democratic Party in dramatic ways. The leadership doesn't really understand these changes and well, that's normal. That is the normal reaction to change. And at this juncture, there is little point now to debate ad naseum about candidates and the DNC. Honestly? I think at this point it is a waste of energy because my eyes are on the real prize: State and local races all over the country. Races that will change the face of the Democratic Party. From what I am seeing on the ground is the way to get people into the leftist tent is not the Presidential Election. It is too public and people have too many preconceived notions about leftists and socialism for it to get the gains we were hoping for. If we want to see a leftist in our lifetime, we gotta start at the ground level. People have been brain poisoned by the Cold War for so long that we can't win at the federal level with no legs to keep us running. Those legs are state and local flips. We start with city councils, sheriffs, school boards, state delegates, and senators. Push that left and you change the conversation, you change minds outside of the talking heads that will rabble on about nothing. If you want to take the stigma out of leftist policy in the minds of centrists, you expose them to it on a local and state level. That is how you bring them to your tent. Moderates are not the enemy, they are allies who haven't realized they are allies yet. Look to Virginia as proof of this. Most of the flips in VA were not socialists or leftists, but moderates. Virginia has a dedicated and heroic activist corps that pushes them and their voters left. The measure of our success is to start flipping seats because you can't do poo poo for people if you don't control the legislature. I mean, just by phone banking and canvassing I have gotten center-right voters to change their minds about UBI and Healthcare. Just by talking to people. The root of all votes and donations is the activists that get the word out and put in the work. But it is a slow process and in VA there is a hell of a lot more work to be done. We aren't going to get where we want by one election. We weren't going to get where we want by this election even if Sanders won. We are going to get there little by little, one election at a time and friends? There is ALWAYS an election going on. It is up to activists to bring people in from the cold. It is up to the activist corps to give them the courage to vote for leftism and you sure as hell ain't going to convince anyone over Twitter or the Internet. The answer isn't to give up and protest vote. The answer is to get out there and start putting in the work to fix this drat shithole country one local race at a time. The United States may be a dumpster fire, but its OUR dumpster fire dammit!
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2020 19:22
|
|
|
Xombie posted:Once again this wide unpopularity of governors' stay-at-home orders is something you've invented out of whole cloth. This isn't about NOW. This is about NOVEMBER and ELECTION DAY. You want Democrats and Progressives elected on this day? You want Trump out of office? The Democratic Party is doing EVERYTHING IN THEIR POWER TO NOT MAKE THIS HAPPEN. We don't have long attention spans in this country and are EASILY swayed by conservative political ads on TV and online. Their media people are already drawing up the ads to run all summer and fall to make it look like this pandemic was all Democratic Media Hype in order to destroy America and to hurt their president. They want to pin BLAME on someone or something other than themselves. Since the Democrats won't do it and tell the truth because of 'we need to be bipartisan and stay above the fray', the Republicans sure as heck would.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2020 19:22
|
|
|
GreyjoyBastard posted:pointing and laughing at them is good for ratings, as is making people mad Yup. Outrage is great for ratings, which is why cable news is not particularly concerned with Trump possibly winning reelection. DaveWoo posted:Tired: Arguing over the 2016 election I mean, it would be nice if the Dems would pay attention to the lessons of '84 as much as or more than '72, is all I'm saying.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2020 19:23
|
|
|
skeleton warrior posted:Oh, bullshit, Majorian. Give me any evidence that Mondale ran as a "center-right" candidate. It’s deeply funny using Humphrey to tout Mondale’s progressive bonafides, his name was mud in progressive circles. Chicago 68 was a thing. As for proof there’s tons. Mondale’s entire campaign was focused on attacking Reagan on... the deficit. His budget called for “pay-go”schemes. But even blaming Mondale is missing the point, the neo-liberal turn and began under Carter. The New Deal coalitions were fracturing. 84 is actually really instructive, because an insurgent candidate also tried to form a multi-racial coalition of working class people (largely of color), progressive whites, and labor unions. It failed. Mike Davis’ account of the primary is super helpful here https://www.versobooks.com/blogs/4109-the-lesser-evil-the-left-the-democrats-and-1984 quote:In contrast to Mondale’s warmed-over corporatism or Hart’s yuppie conservatism, Jackson’s domestic programme was arguably the first social-democratic alternative seriously offered to the American electorate in a presidential campaign (Debs’s campaigns of 1912 and 1920 had been waged around a revolutionary programme). Whereas Mondale and Hart insisted that significant social spending had to be sacrificed to an expanding arms buildup (Mondale would have preserved most of Reagan’s baroque arsenal with his projected $418 billion arms budget in 1989), Jackson straighforwardly proposed to shift massive resources from defence to human services, emphasizing the central role of public employment growth in the economy. He promised the restoration and expansion of Great Society levels of welfare expenditure together with aggressive enforcement of voting rights and affirmative action in employment. Moreover, he was the only candidate who actually fought for the full agenda of traditional labour movement demands (as distinct from Kirkland’s Study Group concessions). It was Jackson, not Mondale, who insistently denounced plant closures, supported labour law reform, attacked the open shop and stood up for the organizational rights of undocumented workers. Of course Jackson lost, and to a large extent you can see the parallels between Jackson’s and Sanders’ attempts to run a transformative campaign within the Democratic Party. There’s obviously big differences, including the base of their respective campaigns, but still. Moral of the story is you aren’t going to change the political landscape through presidential campaigns, and that Dems have been turning to the right (and still losing) for the past thirty years.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2020 19:25
|
|
|
Mondale was the VP for Jimmy Carter, the first Democrat to make union busting great again. This is terminal lib brain poo poo: put the liberal unionbuster up against the conservative unionbuster, then when nobody wants to vote for the liberal unionbuster we conclude "ah the people have spoken, America loves unionbusters so we must out unionbust the conservatives in order to win"
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2020 19:25
|
|
|
Yeah I eat anteater rear end.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2020 19:26
|
|
|
DaveWoo posted:https://twitter.com/NikkiHaley/status/1253325061265620994 Haley is a scumsucking shitbag and she is probably the Competent Fascist™ we should all really be worrying about in 2024.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2020 19:28
|
|
|
The Angry Bum posted:This isn't about NOW. This is about NOVEMBER and ELECTION DAY. You want Democrats and Progressives elected on this day? You want Trump out of office? The Democratic Party is doing EVERYTHING IN THEIR POWER TO NOT MAKE THIS HAPPEN. We don't have long attention spans in this country and are EASILY swayed by conservative political ads on TV and online. Their media people are already drawing up the ads to run all summer and fall to make it look like this pandemic was all Democratic Media Hype in order to destroy America and to hurt their president. They want to pin BLAME on someone or something other than themselves. Since the Democrats won't do it and tell the truth because of 'we need to be bipartisan and stay above the fray', the Republicans sure as heck would. Horseshit. Everything you've been saying is "EVERYONE IS MAD AT THE DEMS NOW EVERYONE BLAMES THE DEMS". Then when you get called out on it being just straight-up nonsense, you shift to "oh well I meant they'll be mad in the future". You literally said "Just because they aren't out physically protesting doesn't mean there is considerable anger about stay at home policies." This is a lie. You said, " they are not happy with Democrats telling them what to do." This is a lie. You stated, "Gov Evers is on the fast track to being recalled or removed entirely if he doesn't back down. Most Dem governors are facing this possibility." This is a total lie. You said, "The pandemic response by Democratic governors and Congress has made the public more distrustful of the party". A lie. All of these things are just things you made up. Reality does not jive with the drama that you have created in your head. Time-warping your goalposts doesn't change that.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2020 19:31
|
|
|
So when the red states reopen, and see a massive surge in covid cases I wonder if they will shut down again? I feel like that would be way too embarrassing for the governors of those states to have the blue state governors look like they handled this crisis better (which obviously they are).
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2020 19:32
|
|
|
Push El Burrito posted:Yeah I eat anteater rear end. getting a lot of questions about my "Yeah I eat anteater rear end" t-shirt.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2020 19:33
|
|
|
Majorian posted:Sure, don't get me wrong - I'm not saying Hart was a progressive at all. But still, Mondale's campaign was all about austerity. When the "fresh, new moderate" has a jobs program and you don't, it's hard to argue that you're an economic progressive. At the same time, many of Hart's critiques of Mondale centered on attaching Mondale to the Great Society and the New Deal as a negative. That's basically what Reagan tagged him with, too, so it gets taken as accepted fact - along with the idea that American voters rejected Mondale for those reasons. You can also say that Mondale was just a less intense manifestation of that rightward drift in response to electoral fortunes, which arguably crested with the DLC/Third Way stuff, and then there's a whole different debate about whether it began in reaction to Reagan, whether it was a Carter thing, or whether JFK was really the herald of it with LBJ as an aberration. I guess I'm more history-posting than arguing, in part because I'm not really sure anymore what your argument is with Mondale and Hart and the 1984 campaign and in part because 80s party politics were loving wild.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2020 19:33
|
|
|
Charliegrs posted:So when the red states reopen, and see a massive surge in covid cases I wonder if they will shut down again? I feel like that would be way too embarrassing for the governors of those states to have the blue state governors look like they handled this crisis better (which obviously they are). Probably not. It’s not like my governor gave a poo poo about people throwing their carcasses on the altar of business before this.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2020 19:34
|
|
|
Push El Burrito posted:Yeah I eat anteater rear end. It’s 2020 hon, we all eat anteater rear end.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2020 19:35
|
|
|
GreyjoyBastard posted:i will admit it's a clever workaround 
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2020 19:38
|
|
|
DaveWoo posted:https://twitter.com/NikkiHaley/status/1253325061265620994 Let's go over the percentages of a business COGS: 25% (IF lucky or food based biz) Labor: 25% (if business is good at monitoring employee productivity and hiring/attritioning when it goes up or down. Closer to 35% for bad businesses. ) Equipment purchases, maintenance, loan servicing administrative, rent: 30%. So how does a busineew save for a rainy day? Let's say a month is 100k in business with 85k in expenses. 15k month to "save" but what are we saving for? Prop taxes Capital purchase taxes(collected yearly) Vacation time payments Future purchases So we take our 15k and very quickly we are out of money. So how do we 'save' for a rainy day when business doesn't go from 100 to 50k. It goes from 100k to 0k. If your don't pay your loan your business is foreclosed on and sold by a bank. If you don't pay your rent your business is locked with a padlock. Wanna know the secret of saving money as a biz? Automation Lower payroll (layoff employees) Lower quality product Higher price points
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2020 19:38
|
|
|
Xombie posted:Horseshit. Everything you've been saying is "EVERYONE IS MAD AT THE DEMS NOW EVERYONE BLAMES THE DEMS". Then when you get called out on it being just straight-up lies, you shift to "oh well I meant they'll be mad in the future". I've worked in political and news media before, this is exactly how it goes down. It has nothing to do with reality. But you can easily manipulate people's perception or what happened in the recent past. Please go and actually talk to people through social media and go outside your sphere of influence to hear what they have to say. Because there are plenty of people that loathe what governors Cuomo, Newsom, Whitmer, Evers etc are saying and think it's all media scare tactics. More people are mad at Nancy Pelosi showing off her refrigerator of ice cream than they are of Trump completely mismanaging the entire response.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2020 19:38
|
|
|
The Warszawa posted:At the same time, many of Hart's critiques of Mondale centered on attaching Mondale to the Great Society and the New Deal as a negative. That's basically what Reagan tagged him with, too, so it gets taken as accepted fact - along with the idea that American voters rejected Mondale for those reasons. You can also say that Mondale was just a less intense manifestation of that rightward drift in response to electoral fortunes, which arguably crested with the DLC/Third Way stuff, and then there's a whole different debate about whether it began in reaction to Reagan, whether it was a Carter thing, or whether JFK was really the herald of it with LBJ as an aberration. My argument's just that, contrary to skeleton warrior's claims, Medicare and Medicaid didn't lead to the downturn in the Democrats' political fortunes over the past 50-odd years. Running away from economic justice is one of the main things that have doomed them. The Dems consistently lose when they run economically centrist/pro-austerity candidates unless those candidates are extremely talented and/or the Republicans have managed to turbofuck themselves. Mondale, and his crushing defeat in '84, is an example of that.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2020 19:40
|
|
|
The Angry Bum posted:I've worked in political and news media before, this is exactly how it goes down. It has nothing to do with reality. But you can easily manipulate people's perception or what happened in the recent past. Sounds like your social media sphere is a bunch of assholes.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2020 19:41
|
|
|
Charliegrs posted:So when the red states reopen, and see a massive surge in covid cases I wonder if they will shut down again? I feel like that would be way too embarrassing for the governors of those states to have the blue state governors look like they handled this crisis better (which obviously they are). A lot of the GOP govs post-Tea Party have lacked any form of shame or self awareness so I don't think that matters unfortunately.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2020 19:41
|
|
|
friendbot2000 posted:The takeaway from this election cycle is that we do not have enough people in the leftist tent to carry a primary challenge. That isn't an indictment on anyone, it is just the truth of what happened. Yes, people poll in support of M4A. But here's the thing: position polls don't mean poo poo if you don't have state and local backing and whipping up votes for your cause. But this isn't the end! What Sanders has done is bring leftist policy forward into the conversation, but its gonna die if we don't get out there and start putting in the work. A movement has been started that will change the internal workings of the Democratic Party in dramatic ways. The leadership doesn't really understand these changes and well, that's normal. That is the normal reaction to change. And at this juncture, there is little point now to debate ad naseum about candidates and the DNC. Honestly? I think at this point it is a waste of energy because my eyes are on the real prize: State and local races all over the country. Races that will change the face of the Democratic Party. okay Im going to phone bank. Anyone else in Florida?
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2020 19:44
|
|
|
Tarezax posted:Sounds like your social media sphere is a bunch of assholes. I've got bad news about everyone's social media sphere
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2020 19:44
|
|
|
LeeMajors posted:Haley is a scumsucking shitbag and she is probably the Competent Fascist™ we should all really be worrying about in 2024. Republicans aren’t voting for a woman in their primaries.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2020 19:47
|
|
|
The Angry Bum posted:I've worked in political and news media before, this is exactly how it goes down. It has nothing to do with reality. But you can easily manipulate people's perception or what happened in the recent past. I just gave you actual data on the actual US population and you come back with what you have read bots screaming about on Twitter responses. Please log off for a bit and re-enter the real world.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2020 19:49
|
|
|
WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Let's go over the percentages of a business Nikki Haley is just peddling GOP DumDum "common sense" propaganda that has no basis in reality because it appeals to your every day blue collar unplugged person. She is fairly scary because she speaks relatively well, appears competent to the uninitiated, is a minority woman unicorn in the GOP, and is firmly rooted in corporatism. She gives no fucks about anything but pushing for complete American oligarchy. Shimrra Jamaane posted:Republicans aren’t voting for a woman in their primaries. She is beloved by the blood red SC GOP and if anyone can pass muster nationally, it is her.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2020 19:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 09:40 |
|
|
https://twitter.com/nathanTbernard/status/1253023458595872770 https://twitter.com/JordanChariton/status/1253384807880499201
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2020 19:51
|
|