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XII felt like a dull MMORPG to me the one and only time I played it (got as far as the bit where you're yelling that you're Basch von whatever).
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Apr 23, 2020 18:27
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Rhonne posted:Jessie has to survive because she's going to become a full playable character who replaces Aerith after she dies. Jessie will show up as an actress in Gold Saucer, with amnesia. ANIME. and you can date her.
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Apr 23, 2020 18:27
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Flopsy posted:What's it with the Japanese and anything over 20 being a senior citizen anyway? japan has a notoriously rigid and repressed work culture, which leads many of their adults to view their childhood (high school in particular) as the only point in their lives when they had any sort of freedom
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Apr 23, 2020 18:28
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:I guess I don't understand the logic of loving 99% of something and then hating the last 1% of it so much it makes you retroactively think the 99% was worthless This is from 20 pages back but I wanted to comment on it. You mention the 1% to 99% comparison, which I think doesn't capture the frustration/worry people have. Sure the last little bit of this game is controversial, but I think people are worried that it is setting the stage for things to come. If the next 2-3 games take the same tone as the last 1-5% of this game, suddenly it's not 1% "bad" to 99% "good". If people didn't like the ending of this and the later games kept going completely off the rails, for those who wanted something faithful it's not 25% good to 75% bad, if that makes sense. I feel like so loving much of the back and forth arguing over things is because we have no idea what part 2 is going to look like. I mean I feel like it starts getting circular with "I hate the Kingdom Hearts ending" "I hope they change lots of things and Aerith lives!" "I hope Aerith still dies!" "What if they don't change anything else going forward?" "We can't judge this ending until we see part 2" blah blah blah we've all seen the back and forth arguments. I think we're just, overall, in a very frustrating place because what's going on with FF7R is not something that happens very often. How often do we see a remake of a singular original game/movie/whatever but the remake is split into multiple parts? I mean, the closest comparison a lot of people make is EVA but I don't even think that captures what is being done with FF7R.
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Apr 23, 2020 18:51
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What I dread about future installments is the possibility of them subverting the Aerith death (perhaps someone else ends up dying in her place, or perhaps no one dies) and then at the very end, Aerith is forced to make an overly sappy heroic sacrifice to save everyone.
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Apr 23, 2020 18:55
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Mordiceius posted:I think we're just, overall, in a very frustrating place because what's going on with FF7R is not something that happens very often. How often do we see a remake of a singular original game/movie/whatever but the remake is split into multiple parts? They often adapt books as multiple films (Harry Potter, Hunger Games, the Hobbit).
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Apr 23, 2020 19:05
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Mordiceius posted:What I dread about future installments is the possibility of them subverting the Aerith death (perhaps someone else ends up dying in her place, or perhaps no one dies) and then at the very end, Aerith is forced to make an overly sappy heroic sacrifice to save everyone. My favorite prediction that I've seen is that they spend the whole next part setting us up to think we can save her--we see Biggs and Jessie again (people survived!), maybe Cloud has more specific flashes of her death and worries that he'll be controlled by Sephiroth to kill her, resolves to stop it--and then it happens anyway, in almost exactly the same way. Just this dangling "maybe you can save her this time" but even with the Whispers gone, even with at least one character aware that something's going to happen, it still has to happen, just as it has before. Maybe that's not what they're going for but if they want players to feel heartbroken at her death all over again, the best way to do it would be to make us really believe it won't happen, then just have it happen exactly the same way all over again. If you need some sort of evidence this is possible, apparently it was Nomura's idea for Aerith's death to be as special as it was--Kitase wanted more party members to die, and Nomura convinced him that it would dilute the impact of Aerith's death--and he has in several interviews over the years talked about how important it was that it wasn't some sappy heroic sacrifice. It was just death and loss and that was it. If anyone's going to screw up Aerith's death, I don't think Nomura's the guy. Harrow fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Apr 23, 2020 |
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Apr 23, 2020 19:07
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I hope jessie doesn't join the party, not because I dont like her, but because there's already too drat many playable characters in FF7. Like, every character is going to feel too compressed when theres 8 fuckers following cloud around. Or that's my fear at least.
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Apr 23, 2020 19:11
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Mordiceius posted:What I dread about future installments is the possibility of them subverting the Aerith death (perhaps someone else ends up dying in her place, or perhaps no one dies) and then at the very end, Aerith is forced to make an overly sappy heroic sacrifice to save everyone. I'm thinking this will be a plotline yeah where like her not dying has happened but things have started going worse as a result but I hope they have a scene where everyone is sitting round with her saying she's accepted what's going to happen and then someone is just like "screw that, we've told fate to gently caress off before. We'll do it again!" and then a large part of the last part of the game is them trying to make it so Aerith doesn't die and everything gets resolved.
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Apr 23, 2020 19:12
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Necrothatcher posted:They often adapt books as multiple films (Harry Potter, Hunger Games, the Hobbit). That's different though. It's different mediums. (Books to films) How often has there been a film, then someone made a remake of that film but the remake is multiple expanded parts to the original's one part?
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Apr 23, 2020 19:12
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https://twitter.com/willowrunes/status/1253038023991836672thebardyspoon posted:I'm thinking this will be a plotline yeah where like her not dying has happened but things have started going worse as a result but I hope they have a scene where everyone is sitting round with her saying she's accepted what's going to happen and then someone is just like "screw that, we've told fate to gently caress off before. We'll do it again!" and then a large part of the last part of the game is them trying to make it so Aerith doesn't die and everything gets resolved. you fool, you'll trigger the spiral nemesis
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Apr 23, 2020 19:21
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Mordiceius posted:This is from 20 pages back but I wanted to comment on it. You mention the 1% to 99% comparison, which I think doesn't capture the frustration/worry people have. I think the ending of the remake was really bold, clever and has a lot of potential. But it's totally disconnected from the rest of the game in a way that makes it pretty incomprehensible for newcomers, who are gonna get whacked with a really bizarre change at the end. Most of the game is an allegory that works in its own universe, but the end completely tears down the 4th wall in a way that doesn't make a lot of sense in universe. I have high hopes, but I can't blame people for being apprehensive. I think long time fans have the most reason to be worried - they have some bad memories and know better than anyone that what looks like a slam dunk can easily turn into incomprehensible trash a la Dirge of Cerberous. That said I'd still prefer incomprehensible nonesense to taking the original and stretching it too thin, otherwise you get the videogame equivalent of the Hobbit movies. Besides, if you want a FF7 remake with better combat and deeper character interaction, Tales of Vesperia is already ported to the switch so you can take that on the go! (JK, FF7 is on the switch too-though I don't know how good the port is. Tales of Vesperia is legit good though, despite the insanely generic world building it skates by on really good character interaction).
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Apr 23, 2020 19:23
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Harrow posted:My favorite prediction that I've seen is that they spend the whole next part setting us up to think we can save her--we see Biggs and Jessie again (people survived!), maybe Cloud has more specific flashes of her death and worries that he'll be controlled by Sephiroth to kill her, resolves to stop it--and then it happens anyway, in almost exactly the same way. Just this dangling "maybe you can save her this time" but even with the Whispers gone, even with at least one character aware that something's going to happen, it still has to happen, just as it has before. You know what, if they did this and just kept Aerith's death almost completely unchanged, I would laugh so hard and forgive any problems I have with the game. Just Aerith spill the beans about her death and how/where it happens. The party goes through Temple of the Ancients and everything is fine. Aerith lives. Hell, lets even throw in a Sephiroth fight there. Make that the end of Part 2. Purists will be pissed. Then part 3 starts and everyone is leaving a the temple and there's a Sephiroth clone that shanks her. Boop boop. Aerith dead again. Basically, I want the party to think they saved her only for her to just die when they're celebrating.
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Apr 23, 2020 19:25
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My prediction is that Aerith will die and it won't be a sappy heroic sacrifice. It might not be exactly the same as the original, but it'll be just as senseless and brutal. That's something that Nomura has talked about being critical to the story before and I doubt he'd do an about-face on it just because he can. They might be setting us up to think we can save her and there might be a fakeout that she's been saved, but I'm pretty confident she'll die around the same point in the story and it'll hurt bad.
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Apr 23, 2020 19:25
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My only objection to that is if Sephiroth really does know what happens in the OG timeline and is screwing that up so that he wins, isn't Aerith dying part of what leads to his defeat? Since she dies and becomes one with the Lifestream to ultimately stop Meteor, wouldn't he want her to live so Holy fails and there's nothing to stop Meteor?
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Apr 23, 2020 19:29
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Harrow posted:My prediction is that Aerith will die and it won't be a sappy heroic sacrifice. It might not be exactly the same as the original, but it'll be just as senseless and brutal. That's something that Nomura has talked about being critical to the story before and I doubt he'd do an about-face on it just because he can. They might be setting us up to think we can save her and there might be a fakeout that she's been saved, but I'm pretty confident she'll die around the same point in the story and it'll hurt bad. I think that Aerith won't die, only to highlight how unnecessary her death was in the first game. A lot of people speculate that the group is going to come to the conclusion that she "needs" to die in order for holy to counter sephiroth's meteor or w/e, but I have to wonder... what kind of message is that? That sometimes your best purpose in life is to die at the right place and at the right time? Nah, I think we're going to experience a different kind of tragedy/loss in a different kind of way, with a different impact on the overall ending (but keeping the game on track until Sephiroth bites it for good.)
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Apr 23, 2020 19:34
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Mordiceius posted:You know what, if they did this and just kept Aerith's death almost completely unchanged, I would laugh so hard and forgive any problems I have with the game. Just Aerith spill the beans about her death and how/where it happens. The party goes through Temple of the Ancients and everything is fine. Aerith lives. Hell, lets even throw in a Sephiroth fight there. Make that the end of Part 2. Purists will be pissed. Then part 3 starts and everyone is leaving a the temple and there's a Sephiroth clone that shanks her. Boop boop. Aerith dead again. This is similar to what I was thinking. Sephiroth is falling, Cloud shoves Aerith out of the way, Sephiroth knows Cloud is going to do this, and then he ends up stabbing her almost immediately after the player thinks she's safe. Or the falling Sephiroth is a hallucination and the real Seph is standing right where he knows Aerith will be and stabs her.
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Apr 23, 2020 19:35
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SgtSteel91 posted:My only objection to that is if Sephiroth really does know what happens in the OG timeline and is screwing that up so that he wins, isn't Aerith dying part of what leads to his defeat? Since she dies and becomes one with the Lifestream to ultimately stop Meteor, wouldn't he want her to live so Holy fails and there's nothing to stop Meteor? That might depend on why Holy failed in the original. Was it just too late? Did Aerith not fully summon it and that's why Sephiroth was able to keep it contained for so long? Alternatively, Sephiroth seems pretty determined to emotionally break Cloud--he starts real early undermining any sense of self or self-worth Cloud has. It did seem like he was trying to keep Cloud from even meeting Aerith in the first place, hence taking him on a detour after the Reactor 1 explosion (and the Whispers needing to keep Aerith in place so Cloud could meet her). Arrrthritis posted:I think that Aerith won't die, only to highlight how unnecessary her death was in the first game. See, that's why I think she will die, because the creators have consistently said that her death being unnecessary is the point. She didn't need to die. Maybe if she'd been able to finish summoning Holy there and then, everything would've been fine. The point of her death is that it was senseless. It wasn't her purpose. Hell, for all we know she could've called the Lifestream like that while alive.
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Apr 23, 2020 19:38
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SgtSteel91 posted:My only objection to that is if Sephiroth really does know what happens in the OG timeline and is screwing that up so that he wins, isn't Aerith dying part of what leads to his defeat? Since she dies and becomes one with the Lifestream to ultimately stop Meteor, wouldn't he want her to live so Holy fails and there's nothing to stop Meteor? Yeah, I’d say they might flip this poo poo on it’s head with Sephiroth going out of his way to not kill Aerith, considering that she could control the Lifestream and gently caress up his plans
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Apr 23, 2020 19:41
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Oxxidation posted:japan has a notoriously rigid and repressed work culture, which leads many of their adults to view their childhood (high school in particular) as the only point in their lives when they had any sort of freedom That why anime is so fixated on it? Geez.
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Apr 23, 2020 19:44
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SgtSteel91 posted:My only objection to that is if Sephiroth really does know what happens in the OG timeline and is screwing that up so that he wins, isn't Aerith dying part of what leads to his defeat? Since she dies and becomes one with the Lifestream to ultimately stop Meteor, wouldn't he want her to live so Holy fails and there's nothing to stop Meteor? Sephiroth only cared about Meteor because it would allow him to become a god or whatever. Meteor getting destroyed at the end hardly matters to him, I think, insofar as he'd have to get past the "getting defeated" part first, which I think has nothing to do with Aerith except that her death spurs the characters on. Unless I'm forgetting something. Granted, I don't know why he's in the North Crater and not in Midgar where Meteor is about to hit so he can collect the lifestream in the wound created by the impact, but still.
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Apr 23, 2020 19:45
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Aerith is going to hit Sephiroth with a folding chair
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Apr 23, 2020 19:47
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Harrow posted:See, that's why I think she will die, because the creators have consistently said that her death being unnecessary is the point. She didn't need to die. Maybe if she'd been able to finish summoning Holy there and then, everything would've been fine. The point of her death is that it was senseless. It wasn't her purpose. Hell, for all we know she could've called the Lifestream like that while alive. I think the only thing stopping me from getting on board with this theory is the climax of Remake. I don't think they would have had us go through a huge battle against the forces of Destiny to change the future if they were just gonna go "Nah, she was gonna die anyways." That's not to say that I think it's impossible for her to die (I think if they were going to play that card, they'd probably have her die in a way where she can't do anything from beyond the grave- make things seem even bleaker). But i'm more inclined towards someone else dying/something worse happening instead of Aerith dying. Andrast posted:Aerith is going to hit Sephiroth with a folding chair I like this
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Apr 23, 2020 19:48
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The folding chair bit is probably the single funniest thing in the game, she's so loving excited about doing it
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Apr 23, 2020 19:50
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Andrast posted:Aerith is going to hit Sephiroth with a folding chair You've set the bar too high, now if this doesn't happen we're all going to be disappointed. edit: they should make it her limit break : Chairth Strikes Back
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Apr 23, 2020 19:50
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I think at this point, if she died exactly the same way as she did in the original, it would be just as shocking. That's the craziest thing about this ending
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Apr 23, 2020 19:52
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Arrrthritis posted:I think the only thing stopping me from getting on board with this theory is the climax of Remake. I don't think they would have had us go through a huge battle against the forces of Destiny to change the future if they were just gonna go "Nah, she was gonna die anyways." That's definitely possible, but it's also possible that it's there to give us hope. They'll have other bits of destiny change along the way, like maybe we'll even see Jessie in a show at the Gold Saucer, but the one thing that doesn't is the most important--Aerith's death. It'll give us (and the characters) hope just to rip it away at the last second. That sorta plays into what Sephiroth's doing, too. He's getting a much earlier start on trying to break Cloud emotionally. He might even egg Cloud on into thinking he can save her so the failure destroys him that much more. I mean this is really all speculation based on the fact that the creators have been all-in on Aerith's death being critical to the story's emotional core, combined with talking about making players experience the story (on an emotional level) like it's new. One way they can do that is by making Aerith's death seem like it won't happen, then surprise us with it anyway. Or, like you point out, someone else dying, though I think if they go that route it'll feel cheap.
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Apr 23, 2020 19:52
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Someone tell me what mods I need for 7 OG Is it just Remako?
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Apr 23, 2020 19:52
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Andrast posted:Aerith is going to hit Sephiroth with a folding chair 
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Apr 23, 2020 19:53
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Veib posted:The folding chair bit is probably the single funniest thing in the game, she's so loving excited about doing it I was so disappointed when the folding chair didn't end up being a weapon option for her if Barrett can get melee weapons why not her
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Apr 23, 2020 19:53
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Arrrthritis posted:I think the only thing stopping me from getting on board with this theory is the climax of Remake. I don't think they would have had us go through a huge battle against the forces of Destiny to change the future if they were just gonna go "Nah, she was gonna die anyways." To me, all the ending did was put it up in the air. But I think she'll still die because if Aerith dies, the theme would evolve from the original's "death comes unexpectedly and often purposelessly" to "death comes unexpectedly even if you think you've fixed everything." If someone else dies the theme becomes "you saved someone from dying, now face the consequences" which is a little hosed up, I think.
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Apr 23, 2020 19:54
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The Unnamed One posted:Yeah, I’d say they might flip this poo poo on it’s head with Sephiroth going out of his way to not kill Aerith, considering that she could control the Lifestream and gently caress up his plans Sephiroth avoids killing Aerith only for Rufus to pop up and shoot her in the back on the head.
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Apr 23, 2020 19:56
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Where's the manuscript in Chapter 6? I completed it on hard but I didn't get it 
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Apr 23, 2020 19:57
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Pollyanna posted:Where's the manuscript in Chapter 6? I completed it on hard but I didn't get it It's where the Chocobo & Moogle summon was on normal, behind the big fans It's the only one you have to physically go find on the ground, everything else is either from a boss or a sidequest
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Apr 23, 2020 19:58
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OG timeline Aerith descends from the darkness and impales NuAerith with her staff.
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Apr 23, 2020 20:00
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Veib posted:It's where the Chocobo & Moogle summon was on normal, behind the big fans  Oh well at least it isn't too far in.
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Apr 23, 2020 20:00
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See, in all this discussion of "will Aerith die/won't she", I think people miss an underlying plot hole/problem that has been raised by the whole "time travel/future awareness thing." In the original game, Sephiroth is cocky as poo poo and doesn't perceive the party as a threat at all. Cloud is an asset because he can be manipulated into accomplishing things like obtaining the black materia, and so Seph strings them along on purpose. When Aerith decides to go summon Holy, Sephiroth comes right out and says "uh oh, this one's going to be a problem. I better do something about that." And then he kills her. It's not a challenge for him- he could've done it any time he wanted. She died exactly when he felt like she should die. Now flash forward to Remake- Sephiroth is just as cocky, and just as capable of showing up and shanking someone exactly when he feels like it. The time ghosts would keep them alive, sure, but they're gone now. If Sephiroth believes Aerith needs to die because now he's future aware, why would he wait until the Ancient City? He can pretty much apparate at will and just stab her whenever he feels like it.
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Apr 23, 2020 20:15
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Harrow posted:I mean this is really all speculation based on the fact that the creators have been all-in on Aerith's death being critical to the story's emotional core, combined with talking about making players experience the story (on an emotional level) like it's new. One way they can do that is by making Aerith's death seem like it won't happen, then surprise us with it anyway. Or, like you point out, someone else dying, though I think if they go that route it'll feel cheap. I agree that if Sephiroth came down and at the last minute pivoted to like, Barret or Red XIII that wouldn't have nearly as much of an impact as the original story. They would need to do some serious re-writing to have something match up to the emotional impact of the original and at the same time have some staying power. I think the only person who could die that would have the same level of emotional impact would be Cloud- but I agree that even that might end up feeling cheap (plus, they'd either have to resolve his arc real quickly in game two or drop it, which I can't see going over well.) I think one of the reasons why i'm so primed to believe that Aerith is going to live is the direction her arc takes in the remake. Where she starts off resigned to everything that's going to happen. She knows how and where she's going to die, and she seems to have accepted it. It isn't until Wedge saves his own life and changes things in a big way that she starts to go along with the idea of defying the concept of destiny. It's kind of poo poo to have that one aspect be an inevitability (but hey, that's probably the point). Just Andi Now posted:To me, all the ending did was put it up in the air. But I think she'll still die because if Aerith dies, the theme would evolve from the original's "death comes unexpectedly and often purposelessly" to "death comes unexpectedly even if you think you've fixed everything." If someone else dies the theme becomes "you saved someone from dying, now face the consequences" which is a little hosed up, I think. I can get behind this. I wouldn't want the messaging to be "Someone needs to die no matter what" or something similar to that. HD DAD posted:OG timeline Aerith descends from the darkness and impales NuAerith with her staff. Aerith still dies, but Aerith Mk II arrives while Cloud is in a snowboarding duel against Roche.
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Apr 23, 2020 20:19
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Aerith gets norted
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Apr 23, 2020 20:21
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Schwartzcough posted:See, in all this discussion of "will Aerith die/won't she", I think people miss an underlying plot hole/problem that has been raised by the whole "time travel/future awareness thing." Yeah but the big thing here is Aerith getting sent to lifestream essentially grants her godlike power. If Sephiroth is future aware wouldn't he realize killing her regardless if she summons holy or not would make her a player on par with himself? She's literally the epitome of "My death is just the beginning" except for the good guys. CharlieFoxtrot posted:Aerith gets norted NO
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Apr 23, 2020 20:23
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