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Eletriarnation posted:I can't really bring myself to throw it away since it was my first new desktop and as far as I know still works flawlessly, but I increasingly suspect I'll never have a use for it again. Even if I found a use for which it was capable, power use compared to a newer system makes that not a good idea. Using it as a classic gaming machine has some superficial appeal but when I consider the difficulty involved in setting up a new install of Windows XP in 2020, I think I'll try to stick to VMs and GOG ports. I just kept my first processor for nostalgia and recycled the rest.
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Apr 23, 2020 20:06
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All the Z490 boards are "leaking" (does it count as leaks when the board vendors themselves are sending out high res pictures?) prior to the launch next Thursday. Here is Gigabytes entire line. The two big takeaways for me are that the Intel 2.5g discrete NIC is actually making it pretty dang deep into the product stacks, including on the ITX boards. And also that apparently all the boards are PCIe 4.0 "ready" for Rocket Lake, because Comet Lake doesnt actually supply PCIe 4.0 lanes. https://videocardz.com/newz/entire-gigabyte-z490-motherboard-lineup-leaks
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Apr 23, 2020 20:25
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Can we just jump to 10G already. That should last the common folk 50 years?
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Apr 23, 2020 20:34
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Shaocaholica posted:Can we just jump to 10G already. That should last the common folk 50 years? My understanding is 10Gb ethernet is still prohibitively expensive for home use. 10Gb RJ45 NICs are north of $100 new last I looked, and switching gear is likewise quite expensive. I can very much see why they aren't stuffing those into consumer-grade boards. Anyone who wants to do 10+Gb should just get some gently used fiber equipment off eBay, where you can get a $30 NIC and a $5 10Gb SFP, a $100 switch and be off to the races.
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Apr 23, 2020 20:42
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But why is it so expensive still? Are the parts that much harder to make or just a catch-22 of economy of scale not caught up yet?
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Apr 23, 2020 21:13
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Shaocaholica posted:But why is it so expensive still? Are the parts that much harder to make or just a catch-22 of economy of scale not caught up yet? It is 10x the data of gigabit, which is a lot of data for a multiport router/switch to shuffle around. Which means the ASIC on board need to be more than just the regular $1 off the shelf microprocs they use in a lot of switches. Which means routers/switches are more expensive and have more annoying cooling than home users are used to. Which means there arent really any 10gig home routers like people are used to, and the switches that do exist are like $400 for 5 ports. Intel and a few others have pushed 2.5gig and 5gig as intermediate steps on the path to 10gig as a way to get cheaper NICs and especially cheaper switches onto the market, but the home market has been pretty recalcitrant so far and small business pretty much moved straight to 10gig. Getting 2.5gig onto a huge amount of desktop boards will hopefully start to push the multigig wave a bit. It is a similar story to 1gig, which really took cheap integrated 1gig NICs being ubiquitous before the rest of the hardware adopted it.
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Apr 23, 2020 21:28
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I guess wifi took a lot of steam out of Ethernet development. Our company could use 10G to desktops but we have way too many clients.
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Apr 23, 2020 21:42
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Shaocaholica posted:But why is it so expensive still? Are the parts that much harder to make or just a catch-22 of economy of scale not caught up yet? In addition to the above, the physical networking requirements to jam 10x more data into the same four pairs of twisted wire as we've had since 10Mbps ethernet is not at all trivial. Yeah, I know, tolerances are tighter on CAT6 and it's more twists to reduce crosstalk and yadda yadda, but the point is that 10Gb is rough to ram down copper like that at any reasonable length: there's a reason Thunderbolt is limited to 3 meters. The NICs just have to do a lot more to make it work. That's part of why you don't really see 10Gb copper all that often even in enterprise: it's expensive, power hungry, and kinda obnoxious to install. Fiber is better on all those fronts, in addition to often offering a pretty painless path up to 40Gb or higher if you want it. Without datacenters really clamoring for 10Gb copper, I'd assume that the economies of scale don't work out in its favor, either. e; FWIW, I can say that other than for some oddities during initial setup the ~$140 MikroTik CRS305 4xSFP+ switch works quite well (if rather warm) for home use--I can get >9Gbps over it without any need for tuning or futzing with it in SwOS mode. DrDork fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Apr 23, 2020 |
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Apr 23, 2020 21:55
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I thought 2.5 can still be run over the Cat5e installations that most homes have if they are lucky enough to have been pre-wired I'd love 10G even with some expensive and noisy used enterprise equipment but I'm not running new Cat6 in my walls
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Apr 23, 2020 21:57
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WhyteRyce posted:I thought 2.5 can still be run over the Cat5e installations that most homes have if they are lucky enough to have been pre-wired Depends on length and quality of install, but yeah, there's a decent chance it'd work. The whole "need to rewire everything" is a big drawback to Cat6(a). If I were custom wiring a house now, I'd be real tempted to just run OM4 fiber through conduit and call it a day. Most things that can't use SFP+'s are fine on good wireless these days, and if you really want to wire up your TV or PS5, you can use a $40 RJ45<->SFP+ converter anyhow. It'll be a long time before networking outpaces OM4, and that stuff is pretty cheap.
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Apr 23, 2020 22:04
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WhyteRyce posted:I thought 2.5 can still be run over the Cat5e installations that most homes have if they are lucky enough to have been pre-wired 5G can be run over CAT5e, plus or minus quality of install and age. And really, 5G would be amazing as is, that's 5/6ths of a SATA 3.0 connection, plus or minus overhead. I can imagine what manipulating data over a network like it was a local SSD inside my own machine feels like and it makes me smile.
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Apr 23, 2020 23:30
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SwissArmyDruid posted:I can imagine what manipulating data over a network like it was a local SSD inside my own machine feels like and it makes me smile. If only it were that easy. Without getting a bit esoteric, it's hard to get latency down far enough to make it "feel" like truly local access, especially if you're addressing a server that has to allow for multiple concurrent users (and if it's not...what's even the point? You can already shove a desktop in a closet and do a kb/m+monitor a fair distance away). Which is, I suspect, another reason >1Gb ethernet has been slow to catch on: most of us don't need it. 1Gb internet is a rarity in the US and there aren't many places in the world where >1Gb is really available. Streaming even 4k video is easily handled by GigE, and most people aren't routinely pushing around multi-TB datastores. It just...isn't needed outside us fringe weirdos with our diskshelves and reclaimed servers for whom, again, fiber is superior in almost every way anyhow.
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Apr 23, 2020 23:49
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NVMeOF or bust
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Apr 24, 2020 01:28
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Unironically, yeah.
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Apr 24, 2020 01:52
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WhyteRyce posted:I thought 2.5 can still be run over the Cat5e installations that most homes have if they are lucky enough to have been pre-wired Serve The Home has gotten 10gbps from really short Cat5e if I remember correct.
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Apr 25, 2020 04:20
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Yeah I’ve done it too, with a little ipoplex 10GBaseT SFP+ adapter. I didn’t test for prolonged periods and it was only like a 10 ft cable but it got similar performance to my “real” SFP cable. I think if it’s a sub 10m or maybe 20m run it’ll work ok. The spec is designed around 100m runs which are not common in home setups. At some point you may start losing some packets but that’s what tcp is for.
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Apr 25, 2020 04:52
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10g or higher sfp is cheaper and easier to run if you just want a point to point link that runs really fast. 100g nics are sub 1k if you gotta go fast
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Apr 25, 2020 05:59
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Dual 100Gb on a Gen4 x16 for NVMe-oF  
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Apr 25, 2020 06:03
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Malcolm XML posted:10g or higher sfp is cheaper and easier to run if you just want a point to point link that runs really fast. 100g nics are sub 1k if you gotta go fast Yeah, fiber is a lot cheaper and easier to do if you're able/willing to get used stuff. And now that 4-port SFP+ switches are under $150, you can do a reasonable setup beyond just point-to-point for cheap.
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Apr 25, 2020 06:04
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priznat posted:Dual 100Gb on a Gen4 x16 for NVMe-oF Suddenly I want this.
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Apr 25, 2020 08:06
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 I realized my Thermalright's fan blocks one ram slot if the ram has 1337 shroud/heatsink/whatever. Is there any meaningful difference to have the fan pulling air through the cooler, on the other side of the cooler, instead of pushing air through? Edit: apparently the difference is like 1-2C depending on setup so I'll just move the fan. https://www.kitguru.net/components/cooling/dominic-moass/fan-config-does-it-matter-testing-push-vs-pull-vs-pushpull/2/ Ihmemies fucked around with this message at 08:22 on Apr 25, 2020 |
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Apr 25, 2020 08:13
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GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:Suddenly I want this. Mellanox mcx516-cdat, they are pretty great for rdma stuff.
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Apr 25, 2020 08:14
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Ihmemies posted:
It can, but is dependent on heatsink geometry on a per-model basis, which means you'll have to test for yourself. About the only concrete thing that can be said across all cases is that when mounted to suck air, dust and hair will accumulate on the intake side of the fin stack, which will be far easier to clean than if mounted to blow, which would sandwich dust and detritus in between the fan and fin stack. Less of an issue with tower air coolers, particularly since most of them have means to quickly remove fans for cleaning, whether it's those wires or whatever, but I definitely always make my top-and-back-mounted radiators suck air for that reason alone.
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Apr 25, 2020 08:21
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Paul MaudDib posted:Yeah I’ve done it too, with a little ipoplex 10GBaseT SFP+ adapter. I didn’t test for prolonged periods and it was only like a 10 ft cable but it got similar performance to my “real” SFP cable. SFP, or SFP+, has much lower latency by an order of magnitude - so if you've got ZFS with its ARC as well as an L2ARC and mirrored SLOG on SSDs, and you're doing iSCSI storage (or even iSCSI boot, which most SFP/+ controllers can do), you'll notice a difference. priznat posted:Dual 100Gb on a Gen4 x16 for NVMe-oF They're probably also so expensive that if you have to ask for the price, you can't afford them - because they're the kind of thing you buy only once you've got an all-flash RAID array of some kind.
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Apr 25, 2020 10:25
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Those cards are about $1k each, and then the cables are fairly spendy too. NVMe-oF is definitely pretty niche, not really something home users have a use case (or wallet) for!
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Apr 25, 2020 15:11
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priznat posted:NVMe-oF is definitely pretty niche, not really something home users have a use case (or wallet) for! ...yet.
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Apr 25, 2020 16:35
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DrDork posted:...yet.  
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Apr 25, 2020 16:45
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priznat posted:Dual 100Gb on a Gen4 x16 for NVMe-oF 100gb is ok but if you’ve got Gen4 (not in the Intel thread lol) and you’re not running 200gb HDR are you even trying? For the homelab 10G/40G Mellanox IB/Eth adapters on eBay are dirt cheap and fiberstore will sell you optics or dacs for a few bucks mostly point to point tho; switching can be a challenge
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Apr 25, 2020 18:21
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Yeah, 10Gb switches are getting to be pretty reasonable, but 40Gb is still gonna cost you a pretty penny and come in rack-mount format.
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Apr 25, 2020 18:30
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PCIe over fiber is awesome. Hardware and (some) software for it has been flirting around since 2010 but if we’ve gotten to the point where the data center guys have NVMeOF...guess it’s hitting some level of “mature”. Also, regarding 2.5Gb/5GbE NICs...the other “odd” product mismatch of sorts in terms of roadmaps seems to be the new Wi-Fi 6 APs. As I understand it, not a lot of inexpensive switches out there with the mix of a pile of copper 1GbE ports, maybe 4-8 2.5Gb/5Gb ports and then the 4 SFP+ cages.
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Apr 25, 2020 19:16
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I honestly can’t think of anything a home user in the next 50years would need to connect with 100G. Maybe VR related but that won’t use a networking interface but maybe the same protocol? And VR is probably going to get more wireless not less.
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Apr 25, 2020 19:48
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sincx fucked around with this message at 05:55 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Apr 25, 2020 19:52
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Shaocaholica posted:I honestly can’t think of anything a home user in the next 50years would need to connect with 100G. Maybe VR related but that won’t use a networking interface but maybe the same protocol? And VR is probably going to get more wireless not less. VR S3xx+rr
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Apr 25, 2020 20:00
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sincx posted:the only thing I can think of that would requure a point-to-point 100Gbit/sec connection would be a light field 3D display Is that just going to be a bunch of stacked ‘traditional’ 2D display channels with some optimization.
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Apr 25, 2020 20:00
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How much is 120fps stereo uncompressed 8K
mobby_6kl fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Apr 25, 2020 |
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Apr 25, 2020 20:01
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No one watches stereo on a traditional screen tho
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Apr 25, 2020 20:08
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Single 8k120 is right around 100gbit, depending on how you encode it.
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Apr 25, 2020 20:15
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More for HDR.
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Apr 25, 2020 20:25
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IMO 8k isn’t going to take off except for VR maybe but there’s plenty of tricks yet and you probably don’t need 8K density across the entire FOV anyway.
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Apr 25, 2020 20:46
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Shaocaholica posted:I honestly can’t think of anything a home user in the next 50years would need to connect with 100G. Maybe VR related but that won’t use a networking interface but maybe the same protocol? And VR is probably going to get more wireless not less. I remember this exact quote about 100BaseT and then gigabit.
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Apr 25, 2020 20:57
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