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Dewgy posted:Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. If you want some good examples, take Final Fantasy XIII or the DmC reboot. They both do some really interesting things and do them pretty well, XIII's combat system is a really deep puzzle battler and DMC's a fairly solid PS2-style God of War clone where you get to fight Bill O'Reilly inside a big TV, but in the context of their series and when they came out they sucked total rear end. There's quite a lot of good ideas trapped in bad games. And a lot of good games are stuck with bad ideas in turn.
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Apr 24, 2020 06:58
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disclaimer : I have multiple hundreds of hours in DMC4, DMC4SE and DMCV. Devil May Cry (henceforth: DmC or 'remake') is still a pretty good game. It's not as complex as the other DMC games, but there's definitely more to it than most brawlers. It's got a higher skill ceiling than almost all the pretenders in the genre. I haven't played a tonne of God Of War, but enough to see it's very simple combos are all that's there. DmC had more tech with the weapon switching, flare gun and movement. It's about as complex as Metal Gear Rising - solidly below other DMC or Bayonetta, but above Nier Automata. Complexity is obviously super important in these games, but the trappings around it are really important too. DmC presentation was totally misunderstood. Putting Virgil in a Guy Fawkes mask is silly. Dante and a monster yelling "gently caress you" back & forth is silly. Fighting Bill O'Reilly in a TV is also very silly. It's silly in a different way to the original games but it's definitely not super edgy Warrior Within tryharding. People got big sad about the wig joke and it spiraled from there. The graphics were really impressive, it played smoothly and had some really nice design choices - the announcer, the ways levels changed as you played, the whole TV sequence, Liliths' Club and a sick NOISIA soundtrack. It was really creative. I think a hypothetical DmC2 would've been a good game. DMC5 and DMC4SE are obviously great but I wouldn't have been super sad to see the series continue with the remake.
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Apr 24, 2020 07:16
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Problem is that from what I recall the public perception at the time with the presentation and developer comments, along with the whole attitude going on with Capcom in particular, was that they really did consider the original DMC to be stupid and their version to be a better game for grown-ups.
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Apr 24, 2020 07:33
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The bigger issue is the re-release completely overhauled combat and is a fun game. The launch version... eh not so much. If the rerelease was how it launched I dont think youd have had anywhere near the same amount of backlash since yes, the story is poo poo and theres a complete lack of bosses but the game itself would have shown through better.
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Apr 24, 2020 07:38
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Three things killed that game from ever getting a chance: #1 It wasn't a continuation of the series but rather a "reboot" which scared fans that they would never get Devil May Cry 5. #2 It was made by Ninja Theory who at the time was widely viewed as a mediocre to above average developer at best. This was well before Hellblade, nobody wanted the developers of Heavenly Sword being the successor to the Devil May Cry series. Unless it was Platinum Games, nobody felt comfortable of any other studio touching the franchise but Capcom. #3 The game was locked at 30 frames per second...
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Apr 24, 2020 07:42
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Barudak posted:The bigger issue is the re-release completely overhauled combat and is a fun game. The launch version... eh not so much. If the rerelease was how it launched I dont think youd have had anywhere near the same amount of backlash since yes, the story is poo poo and theres a complete lack of bosses but the game itself would have shown through better. This is the first time I've seen it criticized for lack of bosses. There's one every few stages... about the same as regular DMC. Bob Barbas being the high point.
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Apr 24, 2020 07:58
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well why not posted:DmC presentation was totally misunderstood. Putting Virgil in a Guy Fawkes mask is silly. Dante and a monster yelling "gently caress you" back & forth is silly. Fighting Bill O'Reilly in a TV is also very silly. It's silly in a different way to the original games but it's definitely not super edgy Warrior Within tryharding. People got big sad about the wig joke and it spiraled from there.
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Apr 24, 2020 08:21
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i asked myself, how do you define Dark Element, like visually? and i realized, there is one person in the world who knows darkness better than anyone else. so i'll gather my inspiration from them so i channeled my inner tetsuya nomura and ended up with this 
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Apr 24, 2020 08:39
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why do you think that art for your indie game belongs in this thread?
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Apr 24, 2020 08:41
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Caesar Saladin posted:why do you think that art for your indie game belongs in this thread? posting it in this thread is clearly an unpopular video game opinion
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Apr 24, 2020 08:45
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well why not posted:This is the first time I've seen it criticized for lack of bosses. There's one every few stages... about the same as regular DMC. Bob Barbas being the high point. Most DMC games have closer to a boss a stage, while DmC has only 6. There are usually a bunch of refights in DmC games so its not totally fair, but it was a complaint. Bob is a really fun boss though, never dreaded that fight as I replayed the game on increasing difficulties which is like the highest praise for a gimmick battle.
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Apr 24, 2020 09:02
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Ruffian Price posted:Kinda disingenuous not to mention the sniper rifle abortion. I also really enjoyed the game (would kill for a DMC5 with DmC's level design) but it was mean-edgy in a way the others never were. Ironic or not, it felt like the devs completely misunderstood the setting. I’d forgotten that part actually. Yeah you’re right the vibe was a bit more cruel despite sometimes being jokey. Uneven tone really hurt it in that way.
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Apr 24, 2020 09:08
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haha is the big expansion everyone is excited about for fallout 76 seriously just adding NPCs to the game for the first time lmao with bethesda's trajectory i cannot wait to see how badly they gently caress up TES 6 Caesar Saladin posted:why do you think that art for your indie game belongs in this thread? thank god the thread police are here to keep the gbs video game chat thread on track
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Apr 24, 2020 18:55
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Previously, I stated that Gabriel Belmont was a good character design. Well, I beat Castlevania: Lords of Shadow last night, and I dunno why it got good scores if people actually finished the game. It starts meh and then gets cool for a bit in the middle and then it becomes increasingly repetitive and then the second to last enemy in the game is a boss fight that is nothing but Uncharted-style climbing and everything after that is the worst plot twisting I've ever seen, and I watched The Village.
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Apr 25, 2020 00:33
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signalnoise posted:Previously, I stated that Gabriel Belmont was a good character design. Well, I beat Castlevania: Lords of Shadow last night, and I dunno why it got good scores if people actually finished the game. It starts meh and then gets cool for a bit in the middle and then it becomes increasingly repetitive and then the second to last enemy in the game is a boss fight that is nothing but Uncharted-style climbing and everything after that is the worst plot twisting I've ever seen, and I watched The Village. Lords of Shadow was billed as Casltevania's move to the 3D AAA sphere. So it had lots of people excited about it.
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Apr 25, 2020 00:46
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punk rebel ecks posted:Lords of Shadow was billed as Casltevania's move to the 3D AAA sphere. So it had lots of people excited about it. Honestly if it had ended well I would not have a ton bad to say about it, but they managed to make a fight with a dracolich boring, and I have to assume the core team wrote a bunch of story and then just had Kojima do the ending. Then there's a post-credits scene that is even more absurd and just aghgh
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Apr 25, 2020 00:51
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The DLC is worse, if you can believe it.
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Apr 25, 2020 00:52
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Dewgy posted:The DLC is worse, if you can believe it. Worse in terms of spending half the game holding ledges, or worse in terms of story dumbness
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Apr 25, 2020 00:52
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While we're on the topic of Castlevania: unpopular opinion of mine is the SOTN-style Castlevanias were way, way overdone and I'd kill for the series to return to 8/16-bit linear platforming routes.
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Apr 25, 2020 00:55
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Justin Godscock posted:While we're on the topic of Castlevania: unpopular opinion of mine is the SOTN-style Castlevanias were way, way overdone and I'd kill for the series to return to 8/16-bit linear platforming routes. Yes please They don't all have to be SotN style, and Castlevania is a really good IP. Doesn't have to be a sidescroller, but I honestly think it wouldn't be too hard to just do some Rondo style branching paths but for a relatively big game. Especially in this era of indie action game revival stuff, I think a solid linear or branching path Castlevania would move.
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Apr 25, 2020 01:00
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signalnoise posted:Worse in terms of spending half the game holding ledges, or worse in terms of story dumbness I don't remember the levels that much but the story is unbelievably bad. I barely even remember at this point but it pissed me off something fierce.
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Apr 25, 2020 01:05
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Justin Godscock posted:While we're on the topic of Castlevania: unpopular opinion of mine is the SOTN-style Castlevanias were way, way overdone and I'd kill for the series to return to 8/16-bit linear platforming routes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloodstained:_Curse_of_the_Moon
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Apr 25, 2020 01:08
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signalnoise posted:Honestly if it had ended well I would not have a ton bad to say about it, but they managed to make a fight with a dracolich boring, and I have to assume the core team wrote a bunch of story and then just had Kojima do the ending. Then there's a post-credits scene that is even more absurd and just aghgh Dewgy posted:The DLC is worse, if you can believe it. So there is an obvious ending the game is building to, right, and you are excited to see it and have fun setting up the mythos even if the last few levels were a bit of a slog. Then the game fakes you out with an out of nowhere nonsense that leaves you unsure that the people working on the game were even aware of what they were making. Then the DLC goes "oh poo poo, I should have done the correct ending, lets retcon that" and then right at the end swerves again for no explicable reason. Between this, the DS game, and the sequel, I swear to god someone high up in Mercury stream thinks brilliant writing is foreshadowing good stories and then having an out of nowhere twist to ruin it. The sequels story is also really, really bad and the gameplay is worse. The highlight being for most people the instafail stealth sequence where when you finally reach the person you were stealthing to they reveal they knew you were there the whole time and then you fight them as a boss fight and that inexplicable instakill thing they were doing to you when you failed the stealth never comes up again.
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Apr 25, 2020 02:16
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signalnoise posted:Yes please You don't really see branching path games anymore, outside maybe legacy cases like Star Fox. You'd think with how devs are obsessed with making every player reach the credits even if you have to drag them to it that it'd appeal. (Outside of small-scale stuff anyway, though the definition gets fuzzy there)
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Apr 25, 2020 09:16
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Ghost Leviathan posted:You don't really see branching path games anymore, outside maybe legacy cases like Star Fox. You'd think with how devs are obsessed with making every player reach the credits even if you have to drag them to it that it'd appeal. (Outside of small-scale stuff anyway, though the definition gets fuzzy there) That's a really valid point, and I think it's butting heads with devs also trying to keep an eye on the budget and knowing that most players won't see all the content they're making (hence having to drag them to the credits), so forking paths is literally money down the drain for a lot of AAA titles. I really liked The Witcher 2 & 3, but there's no way I'm going back to replay W2 to see the other version of chapter2. This lovely ascii game I'm playing? 5000 hours, trying to find all alternative endings. There's no winning for the devs sometimes.
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Apr 25, 2020 10:08
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The problem with large branching paths is that it's an inefficient way to spend development resources. Most players won't see both paths, so you're spending twice as much effort for effectively the same amount of player-facing content. Like Serephina said, most people did not go back and replay the other path in Witcher 2. It's cool being able to offer that choice but how valuable is that, really? They could have released all of that content as an expansion; more players would experience content that they otherwise missed, and the devs would have made more money for the same amount of effort. CDPR could have created a divergent story arc in Witcher 3, maybe made Hearts of Stone an alternative story arc to all of the Lodge stuff in Act 3, but I'm glad that they didn't.
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Apr 25, 2020 10:52
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I'm starting to see why moral choice systems were so big for a while. Like branching paths without the actual having to make any different content except the ending.
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Apr 25, 2020 11:12
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Telltale had the right idea - just make the player believe they're making an important choice. If they come back to see how the sausage is made, it's their fault for deciding to ruin their fun
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Apr 25, 2020 11:34
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Ruffian Price posted:Telltale had the right idea - just make the player believe they're making an important choice. If they come back to see how the sausage is made, it's their fault for deciding to ruin their fun That's come back to bite them - I've never played a Telltale game but even I'm aware that any choice they present to the player is a lie.
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Apr 25, 2020 12:09
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QuarkJets posted:The problem with large branching paths is that it's an inefficient way to spend development resources. Most players won't see both paths, so you're spending twice as much effort for effectively the same amount of player-facing content. most people don't even finish games. we shouldn't cater games to the lowest level of gaming scum. make good games instead, games with many branching paths!
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Apr 25, 2020 12:23
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Yeah, that's why I loved that the ME2 devs actually released some inhouse statistics and we got to see just how weirdly people play games;
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Apr 25, 2020 12:43
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Completing mass effect 28 times seems a cry for help
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Apr 25, 2020 13:47
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Serephina posted:That's come back to bite them - I've never played a Telltale game but even I'm aware that any choice they present to the player is a lie. Telltale is still broke last I checked, though dunno what's happened to them. Apparently all those licenses weren't cheap and didn't make enough money back.
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Apr 25, 2020 14:02
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Ugly In The Morning posted:I thought ray tracing was a dumb gimmick. Then I got an RTX card and I was honestly shocked by how impressive it is. You can’t really get a feel for it just by watching a video, it adds a certain level of immersion when you’re playing a game. You bought an RTX card while thinking it was a dumb gimmick? Can I have some money?
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Apr 25, 2020 15:26
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StabMasterArson posted:You bought an RTX card while thinking it was a dumb gimmick? Can I have some money? I wanted something that would let me crank settings up while playing at 1440p with a high frame rate. My choices were a RTX2070 Super or an AMD5700 XT. AMD’s drivers were a mess at the time and would often not let you play games at all, so I went for the 2070S. Then since I had it I was like “hell, may as well try the ray tracing”.
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Apr 25, 2020 15:55
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Motion controls were/are a good idea and often improve video entire genres when done right. Every Zelda should have motion control combat, as well as many other third person sword fighting games. Flying game should have flying controls like Rodea. Snowboarding and skateboarding games should have carving like SSX Blur. There should be more punching games like Arms and Punchout!, etc.
punk rebel ecks fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Apr 25, 2020 |
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Apr 25, 2020 18:08
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punk rebel ecks posted:Motion controls were/are a good idea and often improve video entire genres when done right. Every Zelda should have motion control combat. Flying game should have flying controls like Rodea. Snowboarding and skateboarding games should have carving like SSX Blur. There should be more punching games like Arms and Punchout!, etc. the basic ps4 controller has the best drat motion controls I’ve ever used and you never hear about it because it’s not forced into absolutely everything as a gimmick
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Apr 25, 2020 18:09
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food court bailiff posted:the basic ps4 controller has the best drat motion controls I’ve ever used and you never hear about it because it’s not forced into absolutely everything as a gimmick 
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Apr 25, 2020 18:13
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Also the subtle adjustments you can make when aiming with two joycons own. Best shooter control scheme on console since dpad+stylus on the DS.
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Apr 25, 2020 18:16
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Zzulu posted:Yeah, that's why I loved that the ME2 devs actually released some inhouse statistics and we got to see just how weirdly people play games; I remember playing Eternal Darkness 3x in a row to see the super secret ending. Nowadays I'd just pull it up on Youtube. People don't need to play the games 2-3 times to see all the cool content, it's all viewable on the internet now. Who's going to play ME2 through repeatedly to see the other options when they can spend 30 minutes on youtube and get the some content? Mass Effect 3 also killed a lot of goodwill for Bioware with their RGB ending but only because they spent 6-7 years building up this epic trilogy as choices matter so you get a not insignificant amount of content in ME3 that maybe 0.01% of players would ever see even in multiple playthroughs because it flags choices all the way back to ME1. Dragon Age Keep, where you can set all the major flags yourself and import that into the game, was the solution to a lot of that but even then, why bother? The big push for moral choice as driving the story changes was always doomed to reach a point of impossibility because you can't really write a coherent dramatic narrative when you have to keep offering branches, then those forks need their own branches and etc.` I think Witcher and CD Projekt Red had a better handle on it where a lot of the big choices aren't tied to the game plot so much as they are about the characters' relationships. Telltale on the other hand were too high on their own farts and like every over piece of drip feed media nowadays if people figure out the twist in episode 1 the makers scramble to make up something new so then can have their "haha, gotcha" narrative.
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Apr 25, 2020 18:23
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