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Is it just me or Tseng apparently an immortal, because he looks exactly the same in flashback as he does today and both Aerith and Elmyra have clearly aged since then.
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Apr 25, 2020 07:33
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We know for sure he is anything but immortal 
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Apr 25, 2020 07:43
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Captain Invictus posted:We know for sure he is anything but immortal You know what I mean you sassy bird man.
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Apr 25, 2020 07:44
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Maybe Shinra benefits include plastic surgery for higher ups
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Apr 25, 2020 07:45
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I'm expecting some sort of reveal where Tseng benefited from Hojo's experiments on Vincent, since he also doesn't age over a course of like 30 years.
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Apr 25, 2020 07:46
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So this dropped a couple days ago. It's Spoiler Mode + Max Dood doing some deep deep theory wankery. (If this was posted already apologies, this thread moves really fast sometimes) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rfgw7iDZ-bo
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Apr 25, 2020 07:57
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Oxxidation posted:i missed kyrie's first appearance but the moment i saw her and her stupid loving stockings i though "oh i hate this horrible nomura girl" her stockings are good, dweeb
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Apr 25, 2020 08:00
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Crowetron posted:I'm expecting some sort of reveal where Tseng benefited from Hojo's experiments on Vincent, since he also doesn't age over a course of like 30 years. I definitely feel like this is some sort of weird plot point. It would take very little to change Tseng's model to make him look a little younger. The fact it's literally exactly the same?? That's... noticeably odd.
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Apr 25, 2020 08:02
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If you have wallpaper engine, everyone's favorite dance sequence and makeover are available. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2062546968
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Apr 25, 2020 08:30
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Here are some fun Cloud facts for everyone while we wait for Final Fantasy VII Revengeance or for the world to end, whichever comes first!
(sorry for this terrible set up for that terrible joke I'm just very tired and I've had to listen to an hour of my good friend complain about FF7R's ending and how the party is unrealistically powerful or whatever.) guts and bolts fucked around with this message at 09:20 on Apr 25, 2020 |
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Apr 25, 2020 09:17
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Juxtapose with cloud and Barret at drum door.gif
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Apr 25, 2020 09:39
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guts and bolts posted:Here are some fun Cloud facts for everyone while we wait for Final Fantasy VII Revengeance or for the world to end, whichever comes first! I mean, I'm a huge fan of the game and the ending didn't really bother me, but it's kind of silly to argue against there being an immersion-breaking power spike at the end. You cited the most cartoonishly unrealistic things that happen in the entire game and they still don't compare to cutting buildings in half and literally teleporting around. Cloud goes from being Captain America-like super athlete to someone that can ignore space-time and physics entirely.
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Apr 25, 2020 09:49
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Everyone of note in this game has Anime Superpowers, not just the party. Reno is a flunky midboss and he can run around as a laser beam.
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Apr 25, 2020 09:50
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsuolxcp07Q Some dude managed to get Red XIII partially playable (controllable but no abilities/materia), the animations look incredible
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Apr 25, 2020 09:54
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not a single bullet hits any named character in any cutscene in the entire game barret clearly just has an airsoft gun attached to his stump
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Apr 25, 2020 09:55
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Schwartzcough posted:I mean, I'm a huge fan of the game and the ending didn't really bother me, but it's kind of silly to argue against there being an immersion-breaking power spike at the end. You cited the most cartoonishly unrealistic things that happen in the entire game and they still don't compare to cutting buildings in half and literally teleporting around. Cloud goes from being Captain America-like super athlete to someone that can ignore space-time and physics entirely. Yeah, this. People would not be pointing this out if it did not represent a huge jump that breaks any sense of weight or stakes. We were hiding in a bathroom two hours earlier. Teleporting and killing a god is a little bit of a stretch, and I don't think it'll fit well to go from that to... a chocobo farm, presumably. Yes, FF7 bent physics, but it has less to do with concrete realism than with inconsistent and exaggerated feats that rob scenes of scale or tension. I think folks can recognize the difference between OG FF7 and Advent Children, and folks have spent the better part of a decade and a half pointing that out. Same poo poo here. I love the game, but that is a major flaw with the ending and it shouldn't be ignored.
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Apr 25, 2020 10:01
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Schwartzcough posted:I mean, I'm a huge fan of the game and the ending didn't really bother me, but it's kind of silly to argue against there being an immersion-breaking power spike at the end. You cited the most cartoonishly unrealistic things that happen in the entire game and they still don't compare to cutting buildings in half and literally teleporting around. Cloud goes from being Captain America-like super athlete to someone that can ignore space-time and physics entirely. Beefstew posted:Yeah, this. People would not be pointing this out if it did not represent a huge jump that breaks any sense of weight or stakes. We were hiding in a bathroom two hours earlier. Teleporting and killing a god is a little bit of a stretch, and I don't think it'll fit well to go from that to... a chocobo farm, presumably. The characters are exactly as strong as the plot requires them to be, no more and no less. You could argue that this breaks immersion from time to time and I'd be inclined to agree with you, but I don't see anyone complaining that Cloud struggles to help Aerith move a dresser out of the way during the church escape, or cloud_and_barret_vs_a_door.gif. I think the over-the-top nature of the game's closing minutes draws flak because of what it parallels (the excesses of Advent Children and similar works) rather than what it actually is. It seems to be less "that's inconsistent with what these characters can do" (because, I'd argue, there's not a whole lot of consistency) and more "every time I've seen a thing that features characters who can do [poo poo from the ending], it has wound up being really bad." Everyone has their own line of bullshit they'll brook, and I respect if your line gets crossed by the ending, but I don't think it somehow invalidates the stakes of what's happening or pulls me out of the events. This is just the nature of anime superheroes doing anime superhero stuff. I think sometimes I read as dismissive or combative and I don't mean to be. I actually like other perspectives. So I'm being sincere when I say: why doesn't the other stuff bother you, but the ending does? Is it really "well now he's super anime"?
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Apr 25, 2020 10:20
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The super-jump building cutting stuff only happens inside the Whisper dimension, and there's no reason to think everything that happens there is literal. Meteor gets slurped up in there, if all that stuff is as real as Cloud & Barret kicking a door then the plot's already over.
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Apr 25, 2020 10:29
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guts and bolts posted:The characters are exactly as strong as the plot requires them to be, no more and no less. You could argue that this breaks immersion from time to time and I'd be inclined to agree with you, but I don't see anyone complaining that Cloud struggles to help Aerith move a dresser out of the way during the church escape, or cloud_and_barret_vs_a_door.gif. I think the over-the-top nature of the game's closing minutes draws flak because of what it parallels (the excesses of Advent Children and similar works) rather than what it actually is. It seems to be less "that's inconsistent with what these characters can do" (because, I'd argue, there's not a whole lot of consistency) and more "every time I've seen a thing that features characters who can do [poo poo from the ending], it has wound up being really bad." If they're doing Advent Children superhero anime stuff at the end of the first act they're going to have to crank up the volume to escalate the stakes in future FF7R games. I think the final chapter is already way too OTT, so it makes me pessimistic about the future direction of this project.
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Apr 25, 2020 10:29
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Crowetron posted:The super-jump building cutting stuff only happens inside the Whisper dimension, and there's no reason to think everything that happens there is literal. Meteor gets slurped up in there, if all that stuff is as real as Cloud & Barret kicking a door then the plot's already over. Yeah it's a weird fate dimension that you enter by going through a hole in reality, why would it obey the laws of physics
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Apr 25, 2020 10:36
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I mean there's also all the bike tricks that both Roche and Cloud do. Which I love.
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Apr 25, 2020 10:37
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Just beat the game. Well, the ending is dumb and literal. But it is totally my type of dumb and literal: A remake of a game that is figuratively and literally haunted by its own legacy, that ends with the Specter of Fate being punched in the dick so hard they need to throw in with the villain just to keep in things on track. I think the ultimate test of this ending will be once the next part comes out, whenever that is, and just how much it will differ from OG FF7. I don't want it to be just lip service; I want to see how far this crazy train goes off the rails.
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Apr 25, 2020 10:37
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Necrothatcher posted:If they're doing Advent Children superhero anime stuff at the end of the first act they're going to have to crank up the volume to escalate the stakes in future FF7R games. I think the final chapter is already way too OTT, so it makes me pessimistic about the future direction of this project. So the concern is that there's no way to top what was done in FF7R's ending without veering into the ludicrous? That's fair, even a really good point actually. I had only been considering it when compared to other stuff that happens in this game. I guess it just doesn't... occur to me that way, I guess, the over-the-topness hurting how much more escalation they can squeeze in? The actual choreography of video game fight scenes tends to almost become a blur in my head unless it's truly well-directed stuff, so I think if the final fight scene of the entire sub-series was on the same level as this game's ending I wouldn't even register that as an issue. As long as the characters and story remain compelling, the exact volume of the fight scene ridiculousness strikes me as an afterthought. Dante in the Devil May Cry games is just kinda exactly as strong as necessary for the plot to function, and while technology has improved to better depict some of his wild shenanigans, the scope of the final battles in each installment fluctuates wildly. In DMC you basically have to kill Evil God while flying through the air as a Super Demon, and then in DMC3 you just fight your brother, and then in DMC5 you just fight someone of roughly the same size and ability as you. All of them felt satisfying, even if the scale and volume is all over the place. That's my operating standard, which I think throws my judgment out of whack for this type of thing.
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Apr 25, 2020 10:37
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Onmi posted:I mean there's also all the bike tricks that both Roche and Cloud do. Which I love. Stunts are exempt from the laws of physics, as evidenced in the documentary Devil May Cry 3.
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Apr 25, 2020 10:38
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:
Give me a mod that replaces Cloud with Sephiroth in the Honeybee Inn dance sequence.
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Apr 25, 2020 10:40
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guts and bolts posted:The characters are exactly as strong as the plot requires them to be, no more and no less. You could argue that this breaks immersion from time to time and I'd be inclined to agree with you, but I don't see anyone complaining that Cloud struggles to help Aerith move a dresser out of the way during the church escape, or cloud_and_barret_vs_a_door.gif. I think the over-the-top nature of the game's closing minutes draws flak because of what it parallels (the excesses of Advent Children and similar works) rather than what it actually is. It seems to be less "that's inconsistent with what these characters can do" (because, I'd argue, there's not a whole lot of consistency) and more "every time I've seen a thing that features characters who can do [poo poo from the ending], it has wound up being really bad." I've said it before, but throughout the rest of the game, Cloud is like a super athlete. He's stronger than a normal person, he can jump higher, he has impressive coordination, and he's really durable (although falling from heights doesn't seem to be a real problem in this world). All in all, almost everything in the game is relatively internally consistent, which is the key to suspension of disbelief. A fictional world is not unbelievable because there's magic, or because people can do impossible things- as long as it's relatively consistent, the audience can accept "this is how things work in this world." When that relative consistency is thrown out the window, suddenly your immersion breaks. Your brain, subconsciously, goes "wait, I thought I understood this world. How is this happening, now?" So when a character that has been pounding on a rickety-looking Hell House for 20 minutes, and finally wins by jumping on its head and stabbing it, and has to worry about making relatively normal jumps- can now slice skyscrapers in half without slowing down, and can blink out of existence and appear somewhere else, your brain stops being invested in the action and becomes aware that it's watching an inconsistent cartoon. This is probably a bad example, but take the bad Superman 2 or 3 movies- we're used to Superman being basically a supercharged human- he can see better, jump so hard he flies, etc. We can accept all that. But suddenly he can pull the "S" off his chest and it becomes an expanding cellophane trap that can hold superhumans? And he can rebuild the Great Wall of China with his eyes? What? When you've spend the last 40 hours with a character, getting a feel for what they can do, you can't just give them magic powers they've never had before out of nowhere. Now, my personal interpretation for it is that it was all due to the "universe" the heroes traveled to. Before you go through the portal, you're given a message about how poo poo is going to be really weird on the other side, so I just like to think that the characters didn't spontaneously become gods, so much as they went to a place where the normal laws of physics don't apply. e: f;b. That's what I get for getting distracted. Schwartzcough fucked around with this message at 10:45 on Apr 25, 2020 |
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Apr 25, 2020 10:40
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People complain about power levels when cloud survives like a 20 mile drop from the airbuster boss to be okay thanks to bed of flowers.
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Apr 25, 2020 10:42
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Crowetron posted:Stunts are exempt from the laws of physics, as evidenced in the documentary Devil May Cry 3. What if I told you that a motorcycle could be nunchuks? ESPN presents 30 For 30: This Party Is Getting Crazy.
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Apr 25, 2020 10:43
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Schwartzcough posted:I've said it before, but throughout the rest of the game, Cloud is like a super athlete. He's stronger than a normal person, he can jump higher, he has impressive coordination, and he's really durable (although falling from heights doesn't seem to be a real problem in this world). All in all, almost everything in the game is relatively internally consistent, which is the key to suspension of disbelief. A fictional world is not unbelievable because there's magic, or because people can do impossible things- as long as it's relatively consistent, the audience can accept "this is how things work in this world." What about the fact that none of the buildings in the singularity are real, they're weird spiritual objects ripped from the actual buildings, As you can see where a crane is not torn from the ground, but its soul-form is pulled from it. That means the trains that Cloud cuts through aren't trains made of solid steel, but ghost trains. And we all know you can cut ghost trains.
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Apr 25, 2020 10:43
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Superman is a bad example because "Superman does new impossible thing out of nowhere to resolve the plot and the power is never mentioned again" has been part of his comics since before any of us were alive.
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Apr 25, 2020 10:44
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Crowetron posted:Superman is a bad example because "Superman does new impossible thing out of nowhere to resolve the plot and the power is never mentioned again" has been part of his comics since before any of us were alive. Well yeah, I did point out it'd be a bad example because Superman is notorious for getting convenient powers as needed. It's still bad writing.
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Apr 25, 2020 10:48
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guts and bolts posted:So the concern is that there's no way to top what was done in FF7R's ending without veering into the ludicrous? That's fair, even a really good point actually. I had only been considering it when compared to other stuff that happens in this game. FFVIIR and DMC are on the same anime-inspired continuum, but I care about the FFVIIR characters way more than I do about the DMC characters. Characters this well written in the game deserve a "truly well-directed" climax. In the final cut-scene clash between Cloud and Sephiroth I don't feel any tension about the outcome as we're in an anime physics-defying dimension with undefined stakes. What even happens here when Cloud hits Sephiroth with a sword strike? There also isn't any personality in the combat, Cloud and Sephiroth are just executing generic flashy anime moves. They should have hired a fight choreographer as talented as their dialogue writers so the final battle between two storied rivals didn't "almost become a blur in my head."
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Apr 25, 2020 10:48
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On an unrelated note, I thought it was a nice touch that post-stabbing, Barret was about to return to the planet like every other NPC mook who died in this game (complete with swirly green light effects), but the ghosts moved in and went "Nope". ...also notably, Jessie and Biggs do *not* get that effect
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Apr 25, 2020 10:48
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Schwartzcough posted:I've said it before, but throughout the rest of the game, Cloud is like a super athlete. He's stronger than a normal person, he can jump higher, he has impressive coordination, and he's really durable (although falling from heights doesn't seem to be a real problem in this world). All in all, almost everything in the game is relatively internally consistent, which is the key to suspension of disbelief. A fictional world is not unbelievable because there's magic, or because people can do impossible things- as long as it's relatively consistent, the audience can accept "this is how things work in this world." I'm picking up what you're putting down w/r/t immersion. I get that internal consistency maintains the suspension of disbelief. I'm saying that Tifa has her life flash before her eyes when she falls from a chandelier in the Shinra Building, and Cloud hits the Sector 5 church at the speed of someone with the top down on I-40 who is really late for his episode of Murder, She Wrote. Part of Final Fantasy VII to me is just rolling with punches like these. Like I said earlier, Cloud struggles to move a dresser at a later point in the narrative than when he 360 noscopes Roche's bike. quote:This is probably a bad example, but take the bad Superman 2 or 3 movies- we're used to Superman being basically a supercharged human- he can see better, jump so hard he flies, etc. We can accept all that. But suddenly he can pull the "S" off his chest and it becomes an expanding cellophane trap that can hold superhumans? And he can rebuild the Great Wall of China with his eyes? What? When you've spend the last 40 hours with a character, getting a feel for what they can do, you can't just give them magic powers they've never had before out of nowhere. This is a good point. But I think it's less about, like, believability within the fictional universe and more about how earned that stuff feels. Superman pulling the logo off of his chest or flying around the world backward feels jarring because it isn't even a logical extension of stuff he can already do, sure, but also because it doesn't feel in any way earned. It feels, to me, like the writers needed the story to end and that was the best shot they had left in the chamber. I can see where your mileage may vary vis a vis the FF7R ending, but it just never crossed that threshold for me. quote:Now, my person interpretation for it is that it was all due to the "universe" the heroes traveled to. Before you go through the portal, you're given a message about how poo poo is going to be really weird on the other side, so I just like to think that the characters didn't spontaneously become gods, so much as they went to a place where the normal laws of physics don't apply. I kinda get that vibe from it as well? But I'm not sure I really would've cared either way, I guess.
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Apr 25, 2020 10:51
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DeathChicken posted:On an unrelated note, I thought it was a nice touch that post-stabbing, Barret was about to return to the planet like every other NPC mook who died in this game (complete with swirly green light effects), but the ghosts moved in and went "Nope". No, see, we never killed anybody all game. Remember when we rescued Johnny and Tifa was like, "let's get out of here before they wake up." And Cloud looks at the clearly dead bodies bleeding out all over the dirt and goes, "...yeah."
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Apr 25, 2020 10:51
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Schwartzcough posted:Well yeah, I did point out it'd be a bad example because Superman is notorious for getting convenient powers as needed. It's still bad writing. True, that was snarkier than I needed to be, especially since we have the same interpretation of the ending. I just saw that one paragraph and was hit with a sudden flashback to that "SUPER-WEAVING!" panel.
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Apr 25, 2020 10:51
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Necrothatcher posted:What even happens here when Cloud hits Sephiroth with a sword strike?
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Apr 25, 2020 10:52
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Okay, actually the most unrealistic thing is that Iron Sword Cloud gets from some random shop in the slums is strong enough to get stuck in the ground and used to pivot a motorcycle without snapping. That hurt my suspension of disbelief more than anything in bizarro fate-world.
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Apr 25, 2020 10:52
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DeathChicken posted:On an unrelated note, I thought it was a nice touch that post-stabbing, Barret was about to return to the planet like every other NPC mook who died in this game (complete with swirly green light effects), but the ghosts moved in and went "Nope". Doesn't happen to President Shinra. I always interpreted that as an extra-diegetic thing.
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Apr 25, 2020 10:53
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Clarste posted:Okay, actually the most unrealistic thing is that Iron Sword Cloud gets from some random shop in the slums is strong enough to get stuck in the ground and used to pivot an entire motorcycle without snapping. All the weapons in the game are actually capital W Weapons like the kaiju from the original game and can react to their environments and circumstances. The Iron Sword saw Cloud was about to do something sick as hell and did everything it could to ensure the cool stunt succeeded. Similarly, Barret's arm guns are all Turks fans, which is why none of his bullets even came close to hitting Rude during the plate drop.
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Apr 25, 2020 10:56
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