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aniviron posted:That would be great if it locked everyone to that status, but my experience from this game even before the flea market was in the game was that some people will be running that fast/fort 7N12s still and it makes the seal clubbing just that much worse. Some of the other feedback i'm reading seems to indicate that this happened pre Flea Market, so that's a little worrying. But we will have to wait and see what happens. The one thing BSG has shown is they will patch things between cycles if needed, such as raising/lowering prices on stuff without notice. Bucnasti posted:It’s been pretty obvious for awhile that the game BSG wants Tarkov to be is not the game we’re currently playing. A lot of the enjoyment most people are having is a side effect of the game being incomplete and not as difficult/realistic/grueling as the devs want it to be. Some people want the game like this and it's what the devs intended, but it's clear a lot of people were sold on a different game. Which sucks. I think the big streamer push during a period where the game wasn't where it designed to be is gonna do a lot of harm. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if this change cuts player numbers pretty severely. We might lose as many as 25%-30% of the players just because casual play isn't possible. And it's definitely true some AAA studio is gonna come along and try and copy this formula. EFT has seen a lot of success for being a small studio. It's one of the biggest games on Twitch, even still. Whenever that happens, a big studio comes along and takes the formula, copies it, improves it and releases it. Look at all the games that spawned off DayZ, H1Z1, Rust, and DotA (the mod).
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Apr 25, 2020 15:05
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I'm ok with more people running bad gear and ammo for longer into a wipe. There are still going to be sweaty nerds covered in gear, maybe I'll actually use it now after killing them instead of immediately putting it on the flea when I get out of the raid.
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Apr 25, 2020 15:57
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fknlo posted:I'm ok with more people running bad gear and ammo for longer into a wipe. When those sweaty boys get there in 3 days after the wipe it'll keep everyone else down even longer. I hate watching those info release streams because whenever Nikita announces something new (read more difficult) all the streamers kiss his rear end about how awesome that would be. They don't care because it hurts the n00bs and won't really slow them down at all. If that's the crowd he wants to cater to more power to him, it's his game. It seems rather than investing resources into tracking down RMT transactions or blocking cheaters they make these easy blanket changes that will only slow it down (temporarily at that) but affect everyone. If anything these make it more likely for people to buy rubles than they were before. Hell I wish the in-raid marker wasn't even a thing. Let me buy my 10x whatevers to finish the quest rather than having to pray to the RNG gods, what difference does it make to any other player? Is RMT only considered a problem because it leads to the hackers using tools to gather loot or do people care that much that someone bought 20mil rubles?
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Apr 25, 2020 16:39
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RMT is a problem mainly because of the hackers but this won't stop RMT. They will just drop high value vendor items like keys in raid using a SIIC case and RMT will continue without being affected at all. BSG are dumb, but they have 2 brain cells and know this. This change exists purely to stomp on ammo flipping. They will probably be adjusting ammo supplies to compensate and your all being a bunch of babies about it. The end of the world weight changes all turned out fine. I'm more interested in seeing the quests be untucked and skill leveling being reworked.
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Apr 25, 2020 17:06
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If they wanna be like this to lower leveled players, I wish they would have decent ammo on some abhorrent 1 day cooldown of purchase, or something... and then you unlock the normal reset at the normal quest line time. I'm just not sure who ammo relisters are a problem for?? Ammo is normally only going for 1.25x the cost of a trader's supply anyway?? Then again, there is justice in seeing Reddit complaints and asap implementing their half baked solutions... so that they have to live with the fallout of their whines. "M995 is 2x the cost on Flea Market and the traders run out! Make flea Find in Raid only!" *m995 now minimum 4.5k / bullet on Flea, traders still run out* "REEEEEEEE" Edit: and there aren't gonna be cases available from flea earlier than trader rep  (I guess I haven't double checked that I needed any cases earlier but I think I got some icases before they were available to me from therapist?? Maybe it's a non issue) Ultimatefire fucked around with this message at 17:50 on Apr 25, 2020 |
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Apr 25, 2020 17:45
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fknlo posted:I'm ok with more people running bad gear and ammo for longer into a wipe. There are still going to be sweaty nerds covered in gear, maybe I'll actually use it now after killing them instead of immediately putting it on the flea when I get out of the raid. Overall this change will probably annoy me but "forcing" me to actually use the poo poo I take off of corpses is probably be good for me personally.
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Apr 25, 2020 17:57
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Ultimatefire posted:If they wanna be like this to lower leveled players, I wish they would have decent ammo on some abhorrent 1 day cooldown of purchase, or something... and then you unlock the normal reset at the normal quest line time. The thing is that BSG wants there to be actual progression in the game. The only progression right now is running interchange a couple times then buying top-teir poo poo from the flea. Additionally, they don't want everyone who hits level 40 to constantly be running the best gear, they want people to have to use variety beyond their own boredom. Right now they can't easily make adjustments because trying to control a free market is like LOL. It's really hard to predict what effect changing a spawn rate or vendor listing will do to the market. By making this change it will make it MUCH easier to balance the items out. They also essentially want to get rid of people who do nothing but play the market to make money. For example, right now I give 0 shits about earning money/loot and I have just been hard-farming quests. Even though I am burning through reap-irs constantly I am making enough from ammo-flipping that my money is staying the same/going up. Its about 5 minutes a day and I make 2-3 million rubles which is more than I could imagine spending without serious poop-socking. Like, I know it seems like they are just listening to redditors/streamers but there are really good reasons to make this change from a game design perspective. They are trying to create RPG stalker, not EVE online FPS version.
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Apr 25, 2020 17:58
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But I like Eve online's market system
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Apr 25, 2020 18:01
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drat, this will poo poo on early wipe. Or new players in general i guess. I liked the idea that you could luck out on killing a better player, because death comes easy to all in Tarkov, but I guess now you're gonna be forced to use that gear instead of selling it for cash. So it's kinda the situation I am now at, with 3 weapon cases full of looted guns waiting for their turn in the meat grinder. I think that armor/mod items will be the ones hit by this the most, not ammo. Which is actually good, since it means more people running armor 3/4 all wipe. This might be an okay system. gently caress having to actually find keys for quests now tho. And gently caress "kills with x gun" quests, that's gonna be a bit harder to complete. Overall this might be a change big enough to shake up the meta, disrupting all levels of play. I am cautiously optimistic since the last few "oh gently caress this sounds horrible" changes have actually turned out as not such big deals or actually positive. And I'm a casual Tarkovian. Currently gonna take a break tho - no way I'm gonna get through the remaining 3 Punisher quests before next wipe, and getting my new case and losing it a week after would break my heart.
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Apr 25, 2020 19:45
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You can still flea things found in raid, which is going to be all keys the first time they're found. You just can't resell a key to another player, if you're done with a key, it goes to therapist now. Key prices are something that is unlikely to change with the new flea market.
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Apr 25, 2020 19:49
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And this is still beta so things could change. Nothing says this is permanent in it's current state. I'm interested in seeing what the change does, but I see why some people are worried. I just hope this doesn't kill off the casual player base. You can also still sell the weapons you find in raid. Most people don't realize you get just as much from a trader, if not more, than the flea market. I am constantly seeing things selling for less on the flea market. Skier pays a poo poo ton for attachments. What he doesn't buy, Mechanic does.
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Apr 25, 2020 20:07
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yeah you already should be vendoring most player gear if you arent going to use it
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Apr 25, 2020 20:08
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Hazdoc posted:You can still flea things found in raid, which is going to be all keys the first time they're found. You just can't resell a key to another player, if you're done with a key, it goes to therapist now. Key prices are something that is unlikely to change with the new flea market. Yeah when supply goes way down prices tend to stay the same thats good thinking.
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Apr 25, 2020 21:27
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The system is definitely gonna need some tweaking. Things not sold on the flea market become not found in raid, which means it is no longer sellable on the flea. That is gonna have to change. There are a lot of things that are gonna need to be tweaked, for sure. Hopefully they start looking at feedback now and change a few things before 12.6. Remember we got at least a month until 12.6. I'm curious what the feedback on the official forums is like, but I don't really want to visit. The best way to get some changes is to convince streamers. Pestily is a good example of someone who is largely happy with the change but sees some faults and can talk to the devs about changes. Say what you will about streamers and other content creators have a direct line to the devs, but sometimes it can be used for good.
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Apr 25, 2020 21:51
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stockholm syndrome gamers man
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Apr 25, 2020 22:41
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hakimashou posted:Yeah when supply goes way down prices tend to stay the same thats good thinking. why would the supply go way down, are most key sales on flea of previously used keys? currently keys i find are either worthless and sold for vendor price or sought after and you either have a copy and sell it or keep it for yourself.
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Apr 25, 2020 22:54
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I guess it was overlooked by most people, including me, but loot and traders are also getting a revamp along with the changes. More items available, etc. So i'd probably chill out and stop declaring this the end of Tarkov until the changes are actually revealed. Edit: My goodness did that wipe announcement start that run on stuff quick. Slicks are 40-50% more expensive now, M995 is up to 1900 a round. People are just spending all the cash before it's gone. You might want to buy a few things now before they get way more expensive, if you can afford it now. ShowTime fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Apr 25, 2020 |
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Apr 25, 2020 23:16
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hakimashou posted:Yeah when supply goes way down prices tend to stay the same thats good thinking. How much is the supply going to change, Nostradamus?
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Apr 25, 2020 23:41
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Hazdoc posted:How much is the supply going to change, Nostradamus? The current supply is all the keys bearing a "found in raid" icon and also all the keys that have been taken into a raid once and dont have the icon anymore. The future supply will only be the keys bearing a "found in raid" icon and none of the keys that have been taken into a raid once. I don't know if you know this or not but there are a bunch of early shoreline quests that require different keys to complete, keys with very low spawn rates. Now and in the past, after a person used the key to complete his quest, he could sell it to someone else who wanted it on the flea market. In the future if they actually go through with this idiocy, none of these keys will be available for sale. When there are fewer goods available for sale, we say that the "supply" of them has gone down.
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Apr 26, 2020 00:37
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hakimashou posted:The current supply is all the keys bearing a "found in raid" icon and also all the keys that have been taken into a raid once and dont have the icon anymore. How much of the current key supply is people selling keys they've used?
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Apr 26, 2020 00:44
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hakimashou posted:The current supply is all the keys bearing a "found in raid" icon and also all the keys that have been taken into a raid once and dont have the icon anymore. You're forgetting all the keys that currently get sold to Therapist because the market is flooded with them and the min price is at are below what she pays. Except for a few high demand consumable items prices on the Flea are generally very close to the dealer buy prices. Most likely the price on the flea for most poo poo won't change, as they're artificially buoyed up by vendor floor prices. I bet even ammo won't go up that much as there won't be a bunch of market barons buying up and relisting cheap sales.
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Apr 26, 2020 00:48
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Bucnasti posted:You're forgetting all the keys that currently get sold to Therapist because the market is flooded with them and the min price is at are below what she pays. Exactly. Most of these "low droprate keys" people are desperately going to be searching for are only expensive because therapist buys them for their high price point. While the amount of keys for the "quest" rooms will drop, no doubt, these are usually those keys that sit at therapist price to begin with, implying that the supply exceeds demand. How much, we don't know, but to imply that keys are going to skyrocket in price as a result of the change is ludicrous.
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Apr 26, 2020 00:51
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Hazdoc posted:How much of the current key supply is people selling keys they've used? It's hard to see why you'd think it would matter. I don't know if you know this or not but demand for shoreline quest keys is very different six months into the wipe than it is early in the wipe. Early in the wipe many thousands of people all need the same keys at the same time to do the same quests, and very late in the wipe this isn't true, since a huge proportion of people have already used the key to complete the quest. If they actually go through with this extreme stupidity, one of the awful consequences will be specific to the early wipe when nearly everyone needs the same few rare keys to complete early quests and get access to better gear from vendors. Maybe there's some kind of person that actually thinks stopping people from reselling vendor items is a good idea. I can't understand that point of view, but there are all different kinds of people in the world and it's certainly believable that there are those kinds of people. What I can't really believe is plausible is that their are ones that they think it is good to get rid of one of the best things about the game, its market for secondhand stuff.
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Apr 26, 2020 00:52
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Hazdoc posted:Exactly. Most of these "low droprate keys" people are desperately going to be searching for are only expensive because therapist buys them for their high price point. While the amount of keys for the "quest" rooms will drop, no doubt, these are usually those keys that sit at therapist price to begin with, implying that the supply exceeds demand. How much, we don't know, but to imply that keys are going to skyrocket in price as a result of the change is ludicrous. Have you ever played tarkov before from the start of a wipe? I am honestly curious because you don't seem to know anything about it at all.
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Apr 26, 2020 00:53
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hasnt the key drop rate overall increased significantly since the start of this wipe
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Apr 26, 2020 00:54
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Wow, so you're telling me, that.. at the start of the wipe, keys will be more expensive? Well drat, didn't know that, thanks for informing me. I'll have to write this one down.
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Apr 26, 2020 01:07
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This thread has turned pretty toxic. Maybe we should all just keep an eye on the changes as they are revealed and see what happens. Not much we can do about it now, other then voice our feedback to the devs. But we can't provide much feedback because it isn't out yet and all we are doing is speculating. I want to see what happens and if things get worse, try and change them. There is a month before it comes out and maybe a few things will get tweaked to make everyone happy, but that does seem impossible. It's going to be tough to keep everyone satisfied because no system is gonna be perfect.
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Apr 26, 2020 01:14
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Hazdoc posted:Wow, so you're telling me, that.. at the start of the wipe, keys will be more expensive? Yeah hazdoc you got it
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Apr 26, 2020 01:15
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ShowTime posted:This thread has turned pretty toxic. Maybe we should all just keep an eye on the changes as they are revealed and see what happens. Not much we can do about it now, other then voice our feedback to the devs. But we can't provide much feedback because it isn't out yet and all we are doing is speculating. I want to see what happens and if things get worse, try and change them. There is a month before it comes out and maybe a few things will get tweaked to make everyone happy, but that does seem impossible. It's going to be tough to keep everyone satisfied because no system is gonna be perfect. DrPop posted:Everyone shut up, PPSh
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Apr 26, 2020 01:24
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i remember the ppsh in world at war, it was a sweet gun
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Apr 26, 2020 01:29
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ShowTime posted:This thread has turned pretty toxic. Maybe we should all just keep an eye on the changes as they are revealed and see what happens. Not much we can do about it now, other then voice our feedback to the devs. But we can't provide much feedback because it isn't out yet and all we are doing is speculating. I want to see what happens and if things get worse, try and change them. There is a month before it comes out and maybe a few things will get tweaked to make everyone happy, but that does seem impossible. It's going to be tough to keep everyone satisfied because no system is gonna be perfect. I can put my finger on exactly when it started to go to poo poo.
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Apr 26, 2020 01:32
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hakimashou posted:I can put my finger on exactly when it started to go to poo poo. if you check your posting history you might figure it out
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Apr 26, 2020 01:35
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*aggressively misinterprets and generalizes everyone who responds to me* I dont understand how this thread got so toxic. It just doesn't make sense to me. Can you all stop talking about the changes now please?
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Apr 26, 2020 01:37
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Bucnasti posted:You're forgetting all the keys that currently get sold to Therapist because the market is flooded with them and the min price is at are below what she pays. Key prices are mostly fixed at vendor prices now because its six months into the wipe and there's no particular demand for the quest keys and a months long glut of supply. Six months into the next wipe it will probably be the same, but who cares? Tarkov is at its most fun early in the wipe and that's what this obnoxious idiocy they've got planned for us will poo poo up. Also if you think that ammo prices are what they are because of "market barons buying up and relisting cheap sales" I dunno what to tell you.
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Apr 26, 2020 01:39
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Hazdoc posted:if you check your posting history you might figure it out
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Apr 26, 2020 01:42
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Even though he's been giving a lot of 1 word answers, Haki is one of the older players and does know what he's talking about. Whether you like his opinion or not is a different matter, but he knows what he's talking about
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Apr 26, 2020 01:43
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Cup Runneth Over posted:*aggressively misinterprets and generalizes everyone who responds to me* I dont understand how this thread got so toxic. It just doesn't make sense to me. Can you all stop talking about the changes now please? This is complete poo poo. Check my post history versus yours. I've been nothing but civil and appreciative of other opinions. You are definitely getting me mixed up with other people.
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Apr 26, 2020 01:43
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Ihmemies posted:But I like Eve online's market system Yeah EVE had a fantastic market system compared to Tarkov's janky poo poo I'm entirely confused how ammo flipping is even a problem compared to a billion other things btw. The "problem" comes directly from the global market/global supply setup and slapping off-brand band-aids on it won't fix the structural issues. Also if you want to force players to use a wider variety of weapons then re-design/rebalance weapons & ammo. There are like fifteen different 9x18mm rounds and the difference between 14 of them is pointless. Same goes with attachments like foregrips - there are 4? 5? variations of RK-x foregrips and like exactly one or two are actually desirable. I'm not a game designer but it feels far more engaging and permissive to have a smaller number of weapons that are all very viable to use in different cases vs a ton of weapons that are either basically repeats or useless. The sweaty min-maxers are always going to spend a million hours organizing raid trades and getting all the best poo poo anyways, so maybe just make basic poo poo a little more usable throughout the duration of a wipe instead of trying to hold back the gear tide.
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Apr 26, 2020 02:01
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ShowTime posted:This is complete poo poo. Check my post history versus yours. I've been nothing but civil and appreciative of other opinions. You are definitely getting me mixed up with other people. lmfao
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Apr 26, 2020 02:11
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all im hearing is that jackets are going to be literal goldmines early wipe and that i should farm them
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Apr 26, 2020 02:19
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