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cheetah7071 posted:he needed both hands to rip out the jenova status Can't he just like, sheath it or something? Or have it magically stick to his back like Cloud does with his swords?
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Apr 25, 2020 22:35
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So something I never thought about in the original because you don’t really see the big picture of the world, everyone in sector 7 topside is dead right? The slums mostly evacuated but Jessie’s mom is dead. Idk I just finished chapter 12 and the scope of the game makes the Turks totally irredeemable and makes Aerith’s assumption about Rude really dumb.
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Apr 25, 2020 22:39
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Rhonne posted:Why did Sephiroth just leave his sword behind back then? I don't think he was thinking about it that much considering...you know.
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Apr 25, 2020 22:45
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I've heard some folks say that Cloud has a big magnet on his back, and that's how the buster sword attaches.
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Apr 25, 2020 22:48
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Dreylad posted:
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Apr 25, 2020 22:50
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DeathChicken posted:It was kind of odd trying to determine who was seeing "Sephiroth" running around and who was seeing him as a Clone puppet. Like, Tifa stops Cloud from killing Marco early on, so presumably she was only seeing the creepy guy next door. Then later on, loving Palmer can see Sephiroth as he's guiding Marco. So can Hojo all the way through a security camera. my take was that it's not a perception thing, sephiroth can freely body-hop from clone to clone but they revert to muttery robed guys as soon as he ends the possession he probably had a good laugh at making tifa think cloud was about to chop a harmless invalid in half lengthwise
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Apr 25, 2020 22:55
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DeathChicken posted:It was kind of odd trying to determine who was seeing "Sephiroth" running around and who was seeing him as a Clone puppet. Like, Tifa stops Cloud from killing Marco early on, so presumably she was only seeing the creepy guy next door. Then later on, loving Palmer can see Sephiroth as he's guiding Marco. So can Hojo all the way through a security camera. I wonder if it's a thing where Sephiroth is getting stronger and able to manifest more completely as the game goes on?
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Apr 25, 2020 22:56
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Oh, the Sector 5 under-plate section was in the original as well? Guess I never really twigged that the stuff under all those catwalks was like, the slums, 300m below
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Apr 25, 2020 23:04
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When I played the original game I thought the plates were like, right above the slums not 1000 feet in the air. Presumably this was better visualized with some of the EU stuff but I never paid attention to any of that.
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Apr 25, 2020 23:06
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Rhonne posted:Why did Sephiroth just leave his sword behind back then? I mean he left one behind in the president in the OG, and thinking on it I'm not really sure if it was supposed to be the same one he had in Niebleheim or the one he had one for Aerith. Maybe he bought a bunch of spares at the weapon shop? exquisite tea posted:When I played the original game I thought the plates were like, right above the slums not 1000 feet in the air. Presumably this was better visualized with some of the EU stuff but I never paid attention to any of that. I mean Jessie shows you that little wireframe video about the structure of Midgar in the OG too, I think it imply'd it was pretty high up. I remember seeing it a lot because the little train CGI that plays on the way back to the sector 7 slums would always crash the game on the PC version that my brother bought. I never got to see the rest of the game until a couple years later when I actually got my own cheap ps1 in like 2003. The memories. 
Caidin fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Apr 25, 2020 |
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Apr 25, 2020 23:29
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Oxxidation posted:my take was that it's not a perception thing, sephiroth can freely body-hop from clone to clone but they revert to muttery robed guys as soon as he ends the possession I'm going to guess he can only manifest properly in Jenova candidates that have completely lost their minds? We've never seen him manifest in a main named character before.
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Apr 25, 2020 23:33
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DeathChicken posted:It was kind of odd trying to determine who was seeing "Sephiroth" running around and who was seeing him as a Clone puppet. Like, Tifa stops Cloud from killing Marco early on, so presumably she was only seeing the creepy guy next door. Then later on, loving Palmer can see Sephiroth as he's guiding Marco. So can Hojo all the way through a security camera. My take is that we're experiencing a combination of Cloud hallucinations and actual Sephiroth "possession". Like, it seems Jenova cells allow one to take on the appearance of another, so when Seph is controlling clones to take Jenova, he's having them appear as Sephiroth to everybody. Meanwhile, Cloud is frequently just seeing hallucinations of Seph a lot. I think he either hallucinated Marco as Seph, or "sensed" the Jenova cells in Marco and his brain went "ahhh, Sephiroth!" Although this does bring up an interesting twist raised in the remake versus my understanding of the original. In the original, my interpretation was that only the actual Jenova could appear as someone else. The actual Sephiroth and the clones could not. Also, Jenova is basically an amalgamation of independently conscious cells that can live on their own. The more of them are together, the more "willpower" and consciousness Jenova can exert through them. So my understanding of the Shinra tower section of the original was not that a clone showed up impersonating as Sephiroth to steal Jenova's body- it's that Jenova's body broke ITSELF out of containment, and took on the appearance of Sephiroth. It freed Cloud from his cell so he could participate in the reunion, and then killed President Shinra and left. That's why whenever you catch up to "Sephiroth" in that game, you end up fighting a Jenova boss (it's throwing bits of itself at you), and you never see Sephiroth carrying Jenova's body around- it's because he IS Jenova's body. Now the remake makes it seem like Jenova's body is inert and just being carried around by random clone lackeys. Schwartzcough fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Apr 25, 2020 |
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Apr 25, 2020 23:35
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Schwartzcough posted:My take is that we're experiencing a combination of Cloud hallucinations and actual Sephiroth "possession". Like, it seems Jenova cells allow one to take on the appearance of another, so when Seph is controlling clones to take Jenova, he's having them appear as Sephiroth to everybody. Meanwhile, Cloud is frequently just seeing hallucinations of Seph a lot. I think he either hallucinated Marco as Seph, or "sensed" the Jenova cells in Marco and his brain went "ahhh, Sephiroth!" Eh, considering it's been flat out stated Sephiroth's mind and will have superimposed over Jenova's I always took it as he wanted to get his hands on some more potent genetic material and that "Jenova" as we know it is essentially gone and it's all Sephiroth now.
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Apr 25, 2020 23:37
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Flopsy posted:Eh, considering it's been flat out stated Sephiroth's mind and will have superimposed over Jenova's I always took it as he wanted to get his hands on some more potent genetic material and that "Jenova" as we know it is essentially gone and it's all Sephiroth now. Sure, but even going with that interpretation, I would've imagined a case where Sephiroth hijacked the Jenova corpse, made it look like himself, and then started heading back to the northern crater in his Jenova suit.
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Apr 25, 2020 23:39
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Necrothatcher posted:I still can't work out why Barret would decide to step through a mysterious portal and potentially never see Marlene ever again. It's clear that someone else realised this as they give him a small scene where he promises he'll be back, but how could he possibly know that? But I guess they've already finished rendering the final cutscenes so he's going through that portal regardless of what makes sense. He wants to protect the planet and his friends. Leaving Sephiroth free to do whatever puts Marlene at risk, so Barret gets in and fights.
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Apr 25, 2020 23:39
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Flopsy posted:Eh, considering it's been flat out stated Sephiroth's mind and will have superimposed over Jenova's I always took it as he wanted to get his hands on some more potent genetic material and that "Jenova" as we know it is essentially gone and it's all Sephiroth now. yes, jenova is basically non-sapient and any actions she undertakes in the game have sephiroth at the steering wheel. he's basically remote-piloting her body from his crystal at the north crater, with jenova's mindless aggression taking over for the bits he tears off and sics on the party
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Apr 25, 2020 23:40
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Schwartzcough posted:Sure, but even going with that interpretation, I would've imagined a case where Sephiroth hijacked the Jenova corpse, made it look like himself, and then started heading back to the northern crater in his Jenova suit. I'll flat out say I'm just throwing poo poo at the wall right now to see what sticks but it's possible that's Jenova's body was not able to free itself due to being in deteriorated condition. The cells are still good for harvesting or using to strengthen other Sephiroth clones but as a meat suit itself? Probably lacking. I'll go so far as to say Sephiroth has converted himself into a new entity altogether using her body as a springboard for his development. Flopsy fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Apr 25, 2020 |
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Apr 25, 2020 23:43
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In the same sense that we have trouble defining the line between Sephiroth and Jenova, I'm not totally sure it's accurate to assume that the Sephiroth that we see in the main game vs the Nibelheim flashback are the same in spirit. IMO Sephiroth died when Cloud threw him into the reactor. The presence of the Jenova cells in his "clones" are, symbolically, representations of the traumatic marks he and Shinra have left on people, to the point where he's become a collective-consciousness bogeyman manifesting through a cultic ritual sacrifice, ultimately constructing this horribly mutated, non-verbal homunculus that you confront at the Northern Crater. It's hard to nail down his specific form because it's slightly different for each person affected by him. Basically, FF7 is Paranoia Agent. After the Nibelheim incident, I don't really think of Sephiroth as the same "human" person anymore, with sympathetic emotions and motives. He simply "is", as some force of nature. Beefstew fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Apr 25, 2020 |
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Apr 25, 2020 23:54
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Beefstew posted:In the same sense that we have trouble defining the line between Sephiroth and Jenova, I'm not totally sure it's accurate to assume that the Sephiroth that we see in the main game vs the Nibelheim flashback are the same in spirit. IMO Sephiroth died when Cloud threw him into the reactor. The presence of the Jenova cells in his "clones" are, symbolically, representations of the traumatic marks he and Shinra have left on people, to the point where he's become a collective-consciousness bogeyman manifesting through a cultic ritual sacrifice, ultimately constructing this horribly mutated, non-verbal homunculus that you confront at the Northern Crater. It's hard to nail down his specific form because it's slightly different for each person affected by him. This gets complicated by that moment at the edge of creation where he's begging Cloud for help and winces as if in pain when rejected. We've talked about how in the Japanese script this is the only time he speaks the way he used to before he lost his mind. Its an...very odd thing to consider. Also his plans have blatantly changed since OG FF7. In the OG game he merely saw Cloud as means to an end and considered him little more than a puppet. Now he's obsessed with him to point he doesn't even want him to die. I couldn't tell you WHAT he wants with Cloud specifically but it's clear he wants him for something beyond being a black materia delivery unit.
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Apr 26, 2020 00:02
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Flopsy posted:This gets complicated by that moment at the edge of creation where he's begging Cloud for help and winces as if in pain when rejected. We've talked about how in the Japanese script this is the only time he speaks the way he used to before he lost his mind. Its an...very odd thing to consider. Also his plans have blatantly changed since OG FF7. In the OG game he merely saw Cloud as means to an end and considered him little more than a puppet. Now he's obsessed with him to point he doesn't even want him to die. I couldn't tell you WHAT he wants with Cloud specifically but it's clear he wants him for something beyond being a black materia delivery unit. In the OG FF7 Sephiroth absolutely cared about Cloud specifically. This is why he has Cloud bring him the black materia and why he tries to get him to kill Aerith - he wants to break him because Cloud defeated him in Nibelheim. This is also the strongest reason to think Sephiroth is in charge in game - Jenova has no reason to care about Cloud, only Sephiroth does. In this game? Who knows! It's great!
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Apr 26, 2020 00:34
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Flopsy posted:This gets complicated by that moment at the edge of creation where he's begging Cloud for help and winces as if in pain when rejected. We've talked about how in the Japanese script this is the only time he speaks the way he used to before he lost his mind. Its an...very odd thing to consider. Also his plans have blatantly changed since OG FF7. In the OG game he merely saw Cloud as means to an end and considered him little more than a puppet. Now he's obsessed with him to point he doesn't even want him to die. I couldn't tell you WHAT he wants with Cloud specifically but it's clear he wants him for something beyond being a black materia delivery unit. I'm only referring to the original game here, not the remake.
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Apr 26, 2020 01:18
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Is there a trick to putting the Sahagin Prince in a pressured state, or is it just a matter of waiting for him to go into counterattack mode?
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Apr 26, 2020 01:18
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Cloud: Somehow, Sephiroth has returned.
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Apr 26, 2020 01:21
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Dreylad posted:I was going to play Hard, loaded up my data and discovered that it hadn't saved me beating the game or something because I couldn't select hard, so I sighed and drew my buster sword and for whatever reason I didn't dislike the ending this much time around. Yeah, the game tells you specifically that you want to make a save file before you exit out after beating the game because otherwise it's not gonna stick. And if you're gonna have a creepy smile you gotta have a big mouth. Lezard Velath also proves this.
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Apr 26, 2020 03:17
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I really messed up and in the replay where I did all quests I didn’t get the elemental materia and then I chapter selected out and now it’s not there anymore Everything I read about Hard is “ok so I hope you have both elemental materia”
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Apr 26, 2020 05:45
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:I really messed up and in the replay where I did all quests I didn’t get the elemental materia and then I chapter selected out and now it’s not there anymore I think there's just one, isn't there?
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Apr 26, 2020 05:52
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morallyobjected posted:I think there's just one, isn't there? You get one earlier in the game (I forget where) and the second is from Mireille in Chapter 14.
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Apr 26, 2020 05:54
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:I really messed up and in the replay where I did all quests I didn’t get the elemental materia and then I chapter selected out and now it’s not there anymore I only take one. Barrier is more important imo and you can save those green and elemental slots to do other stuff like double your total hp.
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Apr 26, 2020 05:56
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Just Andi Now posted:You get one earlier in the game (I forget where) and the second is from Mireille in Chapter 14. But you have to do *all* the Chapter 14 side quests to have it show up.
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Apr 26, 2020 05:57
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i havent been using barrier much in my hard playthrough and its been fine. i dont think any particular materia is absolutely crucial, theres always a way around with most loadouts
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Apr 26, 2020 06:04
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sharrrk posted:i havent been using barrier much in my hard playthrough and its been fine. i dont think any particular materia is absolutely crucial, theres always a way around with most loadouts Yeah for sure, I just find it to be the most efficient since you get so much space and time compared to everyone taking full hits. I like being able to focus on damage output without getting caught out by a huge hit and needing to change my game plan.
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Apr 26, 2020 06:07
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I put the Magnify+Barrier combo on Barret in Normal, but when I did use it, it never seemed to last very long, just a few seconds. I guess sometimes that's all you need.
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Apr 26, 2020 06:39
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Schwartzcough posted:I put the Magnify+Barrier combo on Barret in Normal, but when I did use it, it never seemed to last very long, just a few seconds. I guess sometimes that's all you need. Yeah the time it works for scales off magic attack, so it can last for a very long time when cast by Aerith, but sometimes surviving a big smash you know is on the horizon is enough.
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Apr 26, 2020 06:41
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Schwartzcough posted:My take is that we're experiencing a combination of Cloud hallucinations and actual Sephiroth "possession". Like, it seems Jenova cells allow one to take on the appearance of another, so when Seph is controlling clones to take Jenova, he's having them appear as Sephiroth to everybody. Meanwhile, Cloud is frequently just seeing hallucinations of Seph a lot. I think he either hallucinated Marco as Seph, or "sensed" the Jenova cells in Marco and his brain went "ahhh, Sephiroth!" I think maybe Sephiroth bodyjacking the clones was always the intention and the "well Jenova busted its own body out" was just an assumption that people put together from what the original game had to work with.
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Apr 26, 2020 06:54
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Harrow posted:When they introduced the grapple gun before the Sector 5 reactor I thought, oh, this is how they'll justify Cloud surviving his fall into Aerith's church! And then you hit the plate tower and Wedge breaks out a grappling gun to survive his fall. 
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Apr 26, 2020 09:30
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Beefstew posted:I've heard some folks say that Cloud has a big magnet on his back, and that's how the buster sword attaches. There are some sound effects that make it seem like this is the case, I can't cite the cutscene atm though.
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Apr 26, 2020 10:48
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Cloud surviving that fall is totally plausible. The church roof took most of the impact and then the soft flowers did the rest.
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Apr 26, 2020 10:53
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Cloud can get hit by a pneumatic buzzsaw for 50hp I reckon he's made of stern stuff.
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Apr 26, 2020 10:55
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Necrothatcher posted:Cloud surviving that fall is totally plausible. The church roof took most of the impact and then the soft flowers did the rest. there are numerous incidents which establish that the planet doesn't actually have fall damage. literally the only person who ever gets hurt by falling any distance is tifa and given that cloud falls exactly the same distance and is totally fine it can be assumed that it was some kind of freak accident where she got hit in the head by a piece of falling bridge on the way down or something. everyone else: cloud falls off a mountain and is fine and then off of the plate and is fine, Reno literally jumps off the pillar as a means of escape, the party falls down Corneo's sewer hole and is totally fine, Dyne falls off a cliff while getting shot and is fine(presumably when he jumps later it's not because he's killing himself but rather that he's just chosen to live out the remainder of his life in the ravine), Wedge falls off the pillar and is injured but presumably that's from getting shot beforehand, Tifa jumps off of the Junon tower and is totally fine(and also the soldiers following her show no hesitation even after some of them fall into the streets, presumably because those guys are actually okay), everyone falls off the Nibelheim bridge in the flashback and is fine except that one guy(who the rest seem to think would have survived but might get eaten by monsters). I'm probably forgetting some. falling just doesn't hurt you, people jump off of buildings or fall off cliffs all the time and are fine. honestly the weirdest thing is that they even bother with parachutes in the return to midgar.
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Apr 26, 2020 11:03
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The fall was a lot more believable back when I thought the Midgar plates were set just a little bit above the slums but yowza that's gotta hurt.
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Apr 26, 2020 11:04
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