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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:Guys i've got a solution that satisfies both sides. Suddenly everyone has a great uncle moving to Barbados.
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Apr 26, 2020 14:30
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Before you go about banning air travel it might be better banning cargo ships since the top 15 of them produce as much pollution as all cars on earth.
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Apr 26, 2020 14:33
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stev posted:For most of history everyone a person knew and loved lived within a 10 minute walk. No? I mean maybe peasants, but anywhere above that level the equivalent of the car is the horse and cart and the equivalent of the plane is a ship. Plus itinerant peddlers etc.
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Apr 26, 2020 14:33
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Private Speech posted:Wonder how they would look at orthodox christianity or Islam. (yeah probably burn them at stake I know) The guy who invented the revolving cannon with square bullets for shooting at turks was born one year before that act 
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Apr 26, 2020 14:35
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Pesky Splinter posted:IVST·VVAIT·TIL·IOV·SEE·SVFFICIENTLI·OLD·LATIN·BEFORE·THEI·INVENTED·SPACES·OR·THE·LETTER·V Older than that. They didnt always use the little dots either.
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Apr 26, 2020 14:35
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so the mail have either done no research at all or are trying to stitch her up in the eyes of the members https://twitter.com/sundersays/status/1254170059251036167?s=20
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Apr 26, 2020 14:37
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maybe people shouldn't move to the literal other side of the world if they want to be able to still see their family on demand but thats just me
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Apr 26, 2020 14:37
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Beefeater1980 posted:Nope, but they have made heroic advances in the art of recategorising corona deaths as accidental trip and falls. Oh dear. Would very much like to read about that if you have time!
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Apr 26, 2020 14:38
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After reading this thread I'm definitely considering moving to the other side of the world.
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Apr 26, 2020 14:38
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I can understand folks wanting to meet up with family etc. But I do think a big downswing in the amount of air travel is very good and absoluately vital to make sure we don't all drown and then boil.
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Apr 26, 2020 14:40
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Josef bugman posted:I can understand folks wanting to meet up with family etc.
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Apr 26, 2020 14:42
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Aphex- posted:Before you go about banning air travel it might be better banning cargo ships since the top 15 of them produce as much pollution as all cars on earth. Sulphur pollution, which while terrible for air quality, actually helps cool the planet down and slows climate change. Air pollution and greenhouse gas emissions are two different things, with different causes and fixing one is not the same as fixing the other. Ships use high-sulphur fuel which is a cheaper byproduct of the oil refining process, that cars can't use since it's bad for their much smaller engines. Car fuel has basically no sulphur in by comparison, hence the fact they don't produce any sulphur emissions, while belching out NOx and particulate matter that is also terrible for air quality [it's why london's air is so bad]. There's also the fact that international tourism is essentially wealth redistribution on a global scale - rich countries go to poor ones and spend their money there, so overall money flows from richer to poorer people. If you're not flying to greece for the beach, greece is a even more desperately poor country than it is currently - which links into coronavirus in that these countries will be hardest hit by the economic effects of the virus. EDIT: Also, most of the sulphur emissions of a cargo ship are in the middle of an ocean, where the only people breathing the air are the crew. They only really contribute to air pollution in a few port cities, meanwhile cars are driving around city centres all day. Nothingtoseehere fucked around with this message at 14:57 on Apr 26, 2020 |
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Apr 26, 2020 14:43
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What I'd love is for all trains to be even cheaper and encourage people to go abroad that way. This website is good fun for anyone who wants to plan a hypothetical, post-covid dream holiday. https://www.seat61.com/
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Apr 26, 2020 14:46
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Aphex- posted:Before you go about banning air travel it might be better banning cargo ships since the top 15 of them produce as much pollution as all cars on earth. If we moved that cargo by air instead would there be more or less emissions? (The answer is more. The amount of cargo that one of those ships holds is absolutely insane) We definitely need to undo some of globalisation though and move the production of goods much closer to where they are ultimately used (in addition to reducing consumption in general obvs). Equating cargo transport and passenger air travel though is a false dichotomoy.
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Apr 26, 2020 14:49
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We could really do with a few years of increased volcanic activity. A few enormous explosive eruptions would be good in the short-term for bringing global temperatures down a couple of degrees. Plus, it'd make it really hard for planes to fly, so that would help as well
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Apr 26, 2020 14:52
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If we could have more things reopening in the local area to build stuff, that would be a cool idea! Also sorry, boil and then drown.
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Apr 26, 2020 14:52
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blunt posted:If we moved that cargo by air instead would there be more or less emissions? If you've ever seen a container on the back of a truck, most container ships now carry roughly 10,000 of those fully loaded (and 20,000 of the half-size ones) per journey and Felixstowe and Southampton regularly have 20 or so of those size ships docking a week, if not more
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Apr 26, 2020 14:54
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minema posted:maybe people shouldn't move to the literal other side of the world if they want to be able to still see their family on demand but thats just me man it must be nice to live in a world where the Home Office isn't deporting people for fun
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Apr 26, 2020 14:57
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Pistol_Pete posted:I agree with all of this This is one of the resolutions I would pass if I were in charge* together with my resolution to have all cruise ships renamed The Diarrhea Princess and all who do sail on them must be publicly shamed for minimum of one year, by wearing a dunce cap like of old but the D will represent Diarrhea instead. I think it is a fiendishly clever policy  The very worst for me yet was making small talk with a woman at work and she said that she and her daughter were for the bank holiday weekend getting a plane to stay in a Premier Inn in Birmingham. So okay, what are you going to Birmingham of all places for with your long weekend, on a plane, to stay in a Premier Inn? they wanted to go to the world's biggest Primark  * I appreciate the criticisms but I think it could be solved with a global holiday voucher system of some kind, people could get a book and there'd be official stamps crispix fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Apr 26, 2020 |
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Apr 26, 2020 14:58
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feedmegin posted:No? I mean maybe peasants, but anywhere above that level the equivalent of the car is the horse and cart and the equivalent of the plane is a ship. Plus itinerant peddlers etc. Navvies spontaneously generated whenever a man in a big hat put some stakes in the ground to mark out a canal, the plague(s) were carried around by particularly bronchial migratory birds, and the pyramids were just knocked up by people who happened to be around. People moving away from where they were born is literally the entire history of humanity, which is why we're not shouting this argument at each other from opposite sides of the Great Rift Valley. All that's changed are the distances we can travel. Ideas like banning passenger air travel are even further out there in the average person's perception than the complete elimination of capitalism or ITV making a good sitcom ever again, and also are a tiny pin-prick compared to what actually needs to be done. It's reminding me of the way some people are turning about the lockdown - forgetting what the actual purpose is and instead insisting on some kind of hair-shirt penitence for our evils *even though that doesn't actually help*.
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Apr 26, 2020 15:02
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Julio Cruz posted:man it must be nice to live in a world where the Home Office isn't deporting people for fun add "by choice" in there then
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Apr 26, 2020 15:04
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I mean what are the major causes of global warming? I know that it's travel/ fuel burning in general, alongside heavy industries, but what else?
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Apr 26, 2020 15:05
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But the rate and distances we travel right now are not required for humans to be humans, and are in fact actively deleterious to humans being humans because they are not sustainable. Like the idea that just because you physically can make things that can take people and goods point to point very quickly therefore you should base society around that, is a problem. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Apr 26, 2020 |
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Apr 26, 2020 15:05
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OwlFancier posted:But the rate and distances we travel right now are not required for humans to be humans, and are in fact actively deleterious to humans being humans because they are not sustainable. The internet isn't required for humans to be humans.
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Apr 26, 2020 15:07
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i can post the rest of the manifesto if you guys want
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Apr 26, 2020 15:08
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blunt posted:If we moved that cargo by air instead would there be more or less emissions? This is the sort of thing that *could* be done at a national (or continental) level instead of requiring the UN to be anything other than a talking shop for political failsons, too. Tax goods based on their true environmental cost - the reason everything gets made in China isn't (just) the cheaper labour, it's because the Chinese government cheerfully looks the other way when you just vent all the fumes from your chemical plants/chip fabs/dragon dildo factories into the atmosphere and chuck the extravagantly toxic byproducts into the river. Take away that advantage and you not only save on the emissions of shipping the tat across the world but also stimulate your local economy and reduce the worldwide emissions altogether.
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Apr 26, 2020 15:08
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Also remember that all ships are that have open loop scrubbers to reduce emissions tend to dump the waste water into the sea. Less air pollution, more sea pollution
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Apr 26, 2020 15:10
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Sounded more West Country or maybe Norfolk to me, but come on Rangers FC exist. https://twitter.com/Ciara87C/status/1254175337300230144?s=19 https://twitter.com/Ciara87C/status/1254171580147675136?s=19
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Apr 26, 2020 15:11
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Aphex- posted:The internet isn't required for humans to be humans. So? If that needs to go as well then fair enough. Personally I think it would be probably the best practical substitute for shuffling people around all over the place physically, as well as being more efficient than poo poo like the post which preceded it. If people absolutely cannot deal with the fact that they might be separated from their families just because there's a planet in the way then I think something that at least allows them to communicate freely would be a good thing to have. But what's your proposed solution for making the necessary changes to human society that doesn't involve losing any of the things we can currently do?
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Apr 26, 2020 15:13
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minema posted:add "by choice" in there then how are you defining choice? do refugees count? how about economic immigration? should you be unable to accept a big promotion if it means you've got to move to another country? how about people who need specific medical treatment unavailable where they're living? and who's even going to enforce this rule? for obvious reasons the Home Office can't be trusted to do it
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Apr 26, 2020 15:14
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Personally very in favour of getting rid of the internet, even as I post on it. Not even sarcastic, I actually mean that.
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Apr 26, 2020 15:14
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OwlFancier posted:But what's your proposed solution for making the necessary changes to human society that doesn't involve losing any of the things we can currently do? I don't have a solution and I'm not assuming that it's as simple as banning all international travel.
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Apr 26, 2020 15:16
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Suggesting that international transport of goods and people will need to be heavily reduced is not suggesting that is all that will have to happen.
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Apr 26, 2020 15:17
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I don't hear a 20 year stint anywhere else in flying gammon man's accent. Posh people in Holywood and Bangor in County Down talk like him What would be the environmental impact of households having a personal hot air balloon instead of plane travel? I think it would make for a very whimsical aesthetic anyway. Although people would probably ruin it by decorating their balloons with big flags or rude knockers or whatever crispix fucked around with this message at 15:20 on Apr 26, 2020 |
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Apr 26, 2020 15:17
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Josef bugman posted:I mean what are the major causes of global warming? Have a fun graph  Note that it is 20 years old now, but it's a fairly good way to get a handle on the proportions of different things when it comes to global climate change.
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Apr 26, 2020 15:24
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Would prefer a less fun graph. So I am minimising my own footprint by having only a small amount of meat and food from inside the UK, not flying and only getting trains. Collectively what else should I be doing?
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Apr 26, 2020 15:28
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Can we bring back zeppelins and dirigibles for air travel instead? They are (probably) less polluting and i'm pretty sure they don't explode anymore.
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Apr 26, 2020 15:36
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Josef bugman posted:Would prefer a less fun graph. Join environmental groups which are advocating for specific changes to the economy for a just transition and binding international agreements about emissions (stuff like Scot E3 https://scote3.net/ but whatever's near you) and doing whatever they're doing.
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Apr 26, 2020 15:46
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FairyNuff posted:Can we bring back zeppelins and dirigibles for air travel instead? So either we waste the scarce resource that leaks faster, or we go with hydrogen (which probably wouldn't explode as long as we didn't make the skin out of thermite again, but still might cause fires), or we go with something wacky like steam, which could also run the engines.
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Apr 26, 2020 15:49
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Has any airship/ dirigible ever in existence had a detachable people carrying section that is aerodynamically designed to glide to safety in emergencies? Asking cos' it sounds cool to my hayfever brain.
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Apr 26, 2020 15:49
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