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Prism Mirror Lens posted:Get a grip! My mum said she wanted to move to Spain and I said ok, but I won’t be coming to visit. She decided not to move there then. Big whoop. People don’t have the right to live wherever they want AND suffer absolutely no downsides for it. Lol that you posted this thinking it made you look like a cool socialist and not a huge whiny pisspants baby Edit: In the year 220Ad, Cao Cao, the ruler of the Kingdom of Wei, dies. His son inherits the empire and ends the Han dynasty, meaning technically Cao Cao won.
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Apr 26, 2020 17:02
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Josef bugman posted:Also isn't nuclear power kind of difficult to do because it sometimes 1) explodes and 2) takes ages to set up to ensure that 1 doesn't happen. Nope. It's the safest form of electricity generation, unless you count biofuels, which isn't a serious option and harms the environment (and food security) in other ways.  Edit: I mean, it's challenging to do it from scratch, but these are solved problems. Prince John fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Apr 26, 2020 |
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Apr 26, 2020 17:02
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Nuclear power is kind of difficult because SCARY ATOMZ!!1
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Apr 26, 2020 17:02
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Josef bugman posted:Why is moving to Spain some sort of God given right? "You won't be seeing me as much because you are moving abroad?" Bit of a difference between you won't see me as much and I won't visit you. One's a practical response the other smacks of petulance.
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Apr 26, 2020 17:03
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Nuclear power is "difficult to do" because politicians hate funding it. And subsequently they don't build them in bulk, and instead view them as a kind of pork barrel project for their corporate mates. It's entirely possible to build them effectively and en-masse but you have idiotic middle class hippies whingeing about it so you're stuck with maybe one reactor being built over the course of two decades and a million squillion pounds over budget. Even accounting for the odd explosion it's far less radioactive than coal plants, which spray radioactive particles all over the place as a matter of course, because fossil fuels contain them. The main rules for making sure your reactor doesn't explode are 1: don't deliberately try to explode it to see what happens and 2. don't build them in seismically active areas with no protection.
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Apr 26, 2020 17:05
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Prince John posted:We could cut 60% of our CO2 emissions just by building a poo poo load of nuclear power plants and not have to change anyone's lifestyle to accomplish it, apart from maybe some higher taxes. But, Chernobyl! Is what my retirement-age parents would say, just as they watch the show with the same name right now. They also think that the quarantine should be cancelled so that (other) people can get back to work and save the economy. The worst is they can't go to their holiday home in Slovakia; think of the garden and vineyard there, suffering. e: And these are normally centre-left liberals, not your average gammon. Just had to gripe a bit. Private Speech fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Apr 26, 2020 |
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Apr 26, 2020 17:06
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Prince John posted:Nope. It's the safest form of electricity generation, unless you count biofuels, which isn't a serious option and harms the environment (and food security) in other ways. We've got almost perfect conditions to build shitloads of hydropower too but NIMBYism (and some admittedly more serious concerns/grudges about drowning villages in Wales and Scotland) has put paid to that.
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Apr 26, 2020 17:06
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MonkeyLibFront posted:Bit of a difference between you won't see me as much and I won't visit you. One's a practical response the other smacks of petulance. Or an honest assessment of ones living situation/time. I can barely afford to go home and see my parents every 3 months or so via train, I dread to think of flying that many times. Also whilst I agree nuclear power is okay I am not too sure you can build the necessary plants in a short enough amount of time.
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Apr 26, 2020 17:06
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Josef bugman posted:Why is moving to Spain some sort of God given right? Not much point fighting for delicious open borders socialism if we don't take advantage of it 
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Apr 26, 2020 17:06
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Josef bugman posted:Also whilst I agree nuclear power is okay I am not too sure you can build the necessary plants in a short enough amount of time. It's certainly one of the most practical suggestions, the reason why you'd struggle is a lack of time and willpower, but that applies to everything.
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Apr 26, 2020 17:08
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Bobstar posted:Not much point fighting for delicious open borders socialism if we don't take advantage of it Yes but everyone who retires to Spain seems to go to the same bit. I will admit I do not have much experience of it, but from the various different ways it has been shown on tv and otherwise it makes me want to slam my hand in a drawer. It's just "live in the same place you would back home, but too warm and constantly making an arse of oneself".
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Apr 26, 2020 17:09
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Bobstar posted:Not much point fighting for delicious open borders socialism if we don't take advantage of it I think abolishing borders is not the same thing as abolishing geography.
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Apr 26, 2020 17:09
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mum had every right to move to Spain but she can't compel other people to travel there as well. if anything you lot sound like you're having a tantrum
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Apr 26, 2020 17:09
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I can't think of, and I've never heard proposed, a way to limit "frivolous" air travel without also restricting immigration. I don't think you can pick and choose who gets freedom of movement, so if you want people to be able to escape terrible regimes or economic collapses you have to accept people moving south because they're sick of jumpers. And in general I don't really believe in the notion that letting people take vacations is frivolous, or that a globalist view of society is bad or a dream. Experiencing new cultures and setting broadens your horizons, and makes you more capable of analyzing your own. A large part of my leftist identity comes from reading about the Nordic social systems (when I was younger) and realizing that yes, better things are possible and there's no reason not to have those same systems here. Other-izing other people and cultures is the most powerful tool of the far-right. If the people are generally more aware of and comfortable with cultures other than their own that otherization becomes a lot harder. Lt. Danger posted:mum had every right to move to Spain but she can't compel other people to travel there as well. if anything you lot sound like you're having a tantrum Mum wasn't asking them to move to Spain, just that they weren't willing to take a flight to visit them. That's just petulant. The Monarch fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Apr 26, 2020 |
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Apr 26, 2020 17:10
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goddamnedtwisto posted:We've got almost perfect conditions to build shitloads of hydropower too but NIMBYism (and some admittedly more serious concerns/grudges about drowning villages in Wales and Scotland) has put paid to that. Heh, after seeing how over budget HS2 is, the mind boggles at how much we'd bodge up a dam. On a sidenote, I may have posted this before, but maybe this is a good opportunity to do it again: David MacKay's book Sustainable Energy Without the Hot Air is a fantastic look at the contribution that things like hydro can make to our fight against climate change. It's hugely accessible, critically acclaimed and freely available online. In a nutshell, the book applies some simple maths to determine things like the geographical footprint of each energy source and how feasible it is for them to make significant contributions as a result. https://www.withouthotair.com/ I guess it's getting a little old now, but it's still a fantastic read and the overall picture won't have changed much.
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Apr 26, 2020 17:10
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OwlFancier posted:I think abolishing borders is not the same thing as abolishing geography. Abolish borders but don't even think about trying to go outside them!!
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Apr 26, 2020 17:11
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Its the year 2035 and somehow through a freak series of coincidences UKMT have siezed power in the UK. Their attempts to pass a law that would require all people travelling to another country to be shot in the head are derailed because Miftan keeps sneaking an amendment banning chocolate oranges onto the bill.
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Apr 26, 2020 17:11
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Aphex- posted:Abolish borders but don't even think about trying to go outside them!! There is a difference between saying that you have a right not to be obstructed by the state from going where you want under your own power, and saying you have a right for there to be a worldwide destructive industry centered around helping you get anywhere wherever you want? Or more simply, there is a difference between advocating for the dissolution of the anglo/french border and advocating for filling in the english channel.
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Apr 26, 2020 17:13
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The Monarch posted:I can't think of, and I've never heard proposed, a way to limit "frivolous" air travel without also restricting immigration. I don't think you can pick and choose who gets freedom of movement, so if you want people to be able to escape terrible regimes or economic collapses you have to accept people moving south because they're sick of jumpers. Two birds with one stone: Build loads of trains with antiair rocket launchers on top.
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Apr 26, 2020 17:13
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Perhaps it is also whiny to keep moving further and further away from your family, while complaining that they don’t want to regularly travel thousands of miles a year to visit you? I’m not doing it to be a cool big socialist particularly, it just seems like that is a ludicrous ask which has only become normalised, like I said, very recently. e: also I think opinions might be different if the UK was somewhere loads of pensioner “ex-pats” came to rather than departed from Prism Mirror Lens fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Apr 26, 2020 |
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Apr 26, 2020 17:13
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sinky posted:Nuclear power is kind of difficult because SCARY ATOMZ!!1 Sometimes if you're not careful an atom gets on you and then you're hosed.
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Apr 26, 2020 17:14
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The rich are coming from inside the thread to accuse posters of not being socialist enough to think flying to Spain to see mum on the reg is a perfectly normal part of life. Give me freedom to take a plane to mum's retirement villa for tea and paella or give me death!
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Apr 26, 2020 17:19
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Like there isn't a border between me and... anything south of york, and that's good, but just because I theoretically can go there doesn't mean I've ever wanted to.
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Apr 26, 2020 17:20
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OwlFancier posted:I think abolishing borders is not the same thing as abolishing geography. This is true. So reasonable frequency of family-seeing drops off with distance, but is currently being made planet-destroyingly easy by the present system. It's still possible to visit family in Spain without ever going near an airport. JeremoudCorbynejad posted:Sometimes if you're not careful an atom gets on you and then you're hosed. You're not wrong  Bobstar fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Apr 26, 2020 |
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Apr 26, 2020 17:22
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OwlFancier posted:There is a difference between saying that you have a right not to be obstructed by the state from going where you want under your own power, and saying you have a right for there to be a worldwide destructive industry centered around helping you get anywhere wherever you want? What's the cutoff here? An engine CC size? If you can't get there by foot, bike or sail you can't go there? OwlFancier posted:Like there isn't a border between me and... anything south of york, and that's good, but just because I theoretically can go there doesn't mean I've ever wanted to. You don't want to travel therefore no one should have the right to travel?
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Apr 26, 2020 17:25
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The Monarch posted:You don't want to travel therefor no one should have the right to travel? I mean this is the guy who argued "I didn't learn anything in school therefore education is bad" he's nothing if not consistent
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Apr 26, 2020 17:26
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The Deleter posted:Its the year 2035 and somehow through a freak series of coincidences UKMT have siezed power in the UK. Their attempts to pass a law that would require all people travelling to another country to be shot in the head are derailed because Miftan keeps sneaking an amendment banning chocolate oranges onto the bill. Look mate I'm just trying to get this menace off the streets in any way I can.
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Apr 26, 2020 17:27
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I am saying that I don't agree with this notion that long distance travel is good for its own sake? Or that it's necessary for human welfare? Like you're reacting as if someone was suggesting cutting off your leg or something and it's weird?
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Apr 26, 2020 17:28
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sassassin posted:Give me freedom to take a plane to mum's retirement villa for tea and paella or give me death!
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Apr 26, 2020 17:30
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OwlFancier posted:Like you're reacting as if someone was suggesting cutting off your leg or something and it's weird? To some people, the idea of staying within cycling distance of where they grew up might almost feel like that. To build on what I said above, it seems reasonable at least to draw the living radius at a 1-day high speed train radius from there, which covers a huge amount of Europe. And one of the advantages of the open-borders philosophy is you can pick where to live based on how it suits you (and yes this is currently used by privileged people, but I'd rather try and extend it to all, not abolish it). Even in a perfect world there would be differences between places, some better for some, some for others. Bobstar fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Apr 26, 2020 |
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Apr 26, 2020 17:33
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The Monarch posted:I'm sorry, but I can't read this statement as anything other than just being blatantly anti-immigration. People should have the right to live wherever they want. "It's not like someone's torturing you by locking you away from your family" Jesus dude. Go tell your mum you're moving to Antarctica and she'll never see you again and see how she reacts. Don't make suggestions like that. Street parties are prohibited right now.
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Apr 26, 2020 17:35
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Sure, because rail is a very efficient mode of travel, and can be easily converted to low emssion electric power, I don't really see any reason to object to it. But you couldn't build railroads like paved roads, like literally the thing that makes it efficient makes that impossible, so necessarily that's going to be a different kind of society than the one we live in now which is very centered around point to point transport in a lot of harmful ways. You are, necessarily, going to be giving up the notion of being able to get a lot of specific places quickly. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Apr 26, 2020 |
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Apr 26, 2020 17:37
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Miftan posted:Look mate I'm just trying to get this menace off the streets in any way I can. 
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Apr 26, 2020 17:38
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OwlFancier posted:I am saying that I don't agree with this notion that long distance travel is good for its own sake? Or that it's necessary for human welfare? No it's not as bad as your ridiculous strawman but few things are. Experiencing other cultures, and fostering the view that we are a planet of people and not a jumble of competing nations, is good for its own sake. You're handicapping global social development by acting as though the sum of humanity can be contained in any 10/100/1000km radius. And I'd say escaping terrible regimes or failed economies with no future would be necessary for human welfare.
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Apr 26, 2020 17:39
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The Monarch posted:No it's not as bad as your ridiculous strawman but few things are. I don't think that travelling to other places does that (especially not brits traveling abroad) or that the primary inhibitor of "global social development" is a lack of cross cultural pollenation.
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Apr 26, 2020 17:41
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The Monarch posted:Mum wasn't asking them to move to Spain, just that they weren't willing to take a flight to visit them. we don't know all the circumstances here - money issues, work issues, childcare issues, family relationship issues can all stop someone travelling even just for a weekend. it doesn't really matter either way, however. if it's selfish to refuse to take on the burden of travelling to see someone who moved away, it is exactly equally selfish to create that burden in the first place by deciding to move away and demanding people visit you I have a friend who moved out to Japan and they were pleasantly surprised when our group went out to see them, because they never expected anyone to take on that expense - their family hasn't been out to visit and in fact they only really speak with just their parents, maybe once or twice a year. I had a relative who moved abroad and it destroyed his relationship with his daughter, because it was the latest in an ongoing history of neglect and favouritism. migration isn't easy for anyone involved and you can't unilaterally demand people take on its costs. loving learn to deal with it
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Apr 26, 2020 17:42
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OwlFancier posted:I don't think that travelling to other places does that (especially not brits traveling abroad) or that the primary inhibitor of "global social development" is a lack of cross cultural pollenation. Have you been abroad at all? Genuine question. Also, not all Brits abroad are the stereotypical gammons you see in Spain.
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Apr 26, 2020 17:43
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When I was younger I did. Though I never enjoyed it except for one or two days at the beach, which I also enjoy here so I don't really need to go abroad for that.
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Apr 26, 2020 17:45
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Jesus, this thread really gets weird sometimes.
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Apr 26, 2020 17:49
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Not me on account of "not having employable skills" but a nonzero amount of my other trans friends are planning to get out of the UK because getting the care we need here is increasingly impossible. I don't say this as a gotcha or as a defense of the way things are now but the characterisation of Brits Abroad as just like, all pink gammons who want to go build Britane 2 somewhere in Magaluf is loving bizarre
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Apr 26, 2020 17:50
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