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BaDandy posted:I guarantee that, if the implications of Zach at the end are anything to go by, the timeline(s) might start to break down and we're gonna have people switching consciousness between them, kinda like with Zero Escape. Cloud will hallucinate that he's back in Midgar with Zach only to figure out that they're not hallucinations and it goes from there. That does seem likely. It's like a kingdom hearts 2 where you're playing as someone else for a while but you try to uncover why things seem 'off' and then you kick back to the real protagonist.
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Apr 27, 2020 13:52
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Even Frog Cloud is just so happy.
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Apr 27, 2020 13:53
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Rhonne posted:I think they should have kept the part where the party finds him already dead though. The new scene feels kind of pointless(Tifa begging Barret not to drop the homicidal dictator off a building and Shinra holding Barret at gun point was really dumb) and so many things happen the moment he gets stabbed(Barret gets stabbed, Jenova fight, Barret gets healed, Sephiroth escapes, Rufus shows up) that none of the characters really have a chance to react to it. I actually sort of forgot that he'd been stabbed on screen so had to double check that that had actually been shown when Rufus declares himself King Shinra.
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Apr 27, 2020 13:56
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Rhonne posted:I think they should have kept the part where the party finds him already dead though. The new scene feels kind of pointless(Tifa begging Barret not to drop the homicidal dictator off a building and Shinra holding Barret at gun point was really dumb) and so many things happen the moment he gets stabbed(Barret gets stabbed, Jenova fight, Barret gets healed, Sephiroth escapes, Rufus shows up) that none of the characters really have a chance to react to it. Yeah that was the one moment I felt they really flubbed all round.
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Apr 27, 2020 13:56
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FAUXTON posted:so the sephiroth fight was kind of a pushover if you realized early on you could counter his ground melee attack and dodge through his jumping one, and also that heartless angel was an AOE so all you had to do was tag over to your healer occasionally and keep them backed up during that phase. Everything else you can just roll away from often enough that you can heal through the damage of the stuff you don't. I actually beefed Heartless Angel and everyone got hit by it, but through sheer chance I queued up a Magnified Curaga right before he started it up and the heal went through after everyone's HP got dropped.
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Apr 27, 2020 14:01
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BisbyWorl posted:I actually beefed Heartless Angel and everyone got hit by it, but through sheer chance I queued up a Magnified Curaga right before he started it up and the heal went through after everyone's HP got dropped. drat that's a stroke of luck right there
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Apr 27, 2020 14:13
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I kinda feel like they blew their load too early with Jenova's battle theme almost. It's not going to have the same impact if you hear it at least another three times and it's not like it can get any more over-the-top than it already is. It's probably also a bit ... tonally inconsistent if you've never played the original. Barret's loving DEAD and you're giving me this super pumped up battle theme wtf. Barret's whole Cait Sith moment is kind of dumb in general to be honest and there's way less ham-fisted ways of getting its point across.
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Apr 27, 2020 14:16
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they might have blown their load, but what a load it was
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Apr 27, 2020 14:17
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Sapozhnik posted:I kinda feel like they blew their load too early with Jenova's battle theme almost. It's not going to have the same impact if you hear it at least another three times and it's not like it can get any more over-the-top than it already is. Barret was pretty obviously not dead though? Like you saw a whisper dive in and start healing him before the fight even started. Given everything that came before, I don't think you were ever supposed to be under the impression that he wasn't going to be okay.
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Apr 27, 2020 14:23
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I think it helps that Jenova is already a recurring boss. In the original game, every time you hear that music you know you're in for a cool fight against a total monstrosity. All they've really done is add another instance of it. I agree it was a bit weird to leave Barret dead for the duration of the fight though. They could have had him revived but still incapacitated. Now they seriously blew their load all over the wall with One Winged Angel.
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Apr 27, 2020 14:24
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I'm imagining they can do something cool with it like they've done with nearly every other track in the game
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Apr 27, 2020 14:26
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I think it would be good if there's no Sephiroth fight or One Winged Angel in part 2. I understand they wanted to give people a full FFVII experience in this game but they're going to seriously run it into the ground if you have three climactic fights against him at the end of every part.
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Apr 27, 2020 14:28
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There will be another Sephiroth fight in part 2 but it will quickly become apparent it's only Zack and Cloud's just hallucinating really hard. It will still play one winged angel though
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Apr 27, 2020 14:35
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SyntheticPolygon posted:There will be another Sephiroth fight in part 2 but it will quickly become apparent it's only Zack and Cloud's just hallucinating really hard. Nah it'll play The Price of Freedom. And Cloud will talk about how high the price of Mako is.
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Apr 27, 2020 14:53
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multijoe posted:I think it would be good if there's no Sephiroth fight or One Winged Angel in part 2. I understand they wanted to give people a full FFVII experience in this game but they're going to seriously run it into the ground if you have three climactic fights against him at the end of every part. it's probably gonna be a flashback tbh
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Apr 27, 2020 14:55
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So chapter 17 battle sim. I had to play through it 6 times. First try: Cleared it, noticed bad breath, and realized its an enemy skill. 2: died to behemoth rampage 3: cleared it but somehow equip steal instead of enemy skill. 4: died to behemoth 5: died to stage 4 6: finally got bad breath, but Barrett had to eat it twice before it registered. And I finally maxed out revive. Time to fight bahamut
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Apr 27, 2020 14:57
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multijoe posted:I think it would be good if there's no Sephiroth fight or One Winged Angel in part 2. I understand they wanted to give people a full FFVII experience in this game but they're going to seriously run it into the ground if you have three climactic fights against him at the end of every part. Maybe. But how many times do you fight Jenova in FFVII throughout the game? They could do the same thing with Sephiroth and have it work. They'd have to do something creative with the music, but you know what, I think I trust them at this point
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Apr 27, 2020 15:08
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Flopsy posted:Can I get a gently caress to the no please? Ain't gonna lie that sounds like the kinda poo poo that would make me hate this thing. I'm willing to buy an alternate timeline Zack made it, that's fine. Hell i'll even accept it if some how he even shows up in this one. But timeline shenanigans and brain switching? No. no no no noooo I've never seen a piece of media where that was done that I haven't hated with everything I am. I dunno, I'm more curious to see if they could pull it off. You probably could if you don't literally switch brains and make it a really surreal moment, maybe Cloud just sensing or knowing about other poo poo going on with Zach and not knowing why. Hell, considering that Cloud is so resistant to even hearing Zach's name, it could easily be like another Cloud talking to Cloud scene but as a playable segment. cock hero flux posted:sephiroth never appears in midgar I think they mean that, at this point, Sephiroth (or the Jenova meat suit he's using) is definitely in Midgar, the party just doesn't see him then. Ineffiable posted:That does seem likely. It's like a kingdom hearts 2 where you're playing as someone else for a while but you try to uncover why things seem 'off' and then you kick back to the real protagonist. Oh god, what if you actually get to play as Zach???
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Apr 27, 2020 15:13
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you spelling it like that is making me picture cloud as francis york morgan and it kind of works!
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Apr 27, 2020 15:14
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Give me Two Winged Angel. Add a wing for every game.
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Apr 27, 2020 15:27
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I could see Zack being like KH2 Roxas where we play as him at the start of FF7R Part 2 before it becoming like a "this isn't how things are supposed to be" and he dies again or we just come back to Cloud for some other reason, or I could see Zack being like Laguna in FF8 where we get short like flash-sideways segments of playing as Zack that Cloud dreams or thinks he hallucinates.
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Apr 27, 2020 15:29
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Part 2 is going to start in the middle of the Nibelheim flashback as you control the group of Cloud, Sephiroth, and "Shinra Officer".
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Apr 27, 2020 15:33
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Why not more like playing as Laguna in FFVIII, which led to one of the best lines in that game ("I dreamt I was a moron.")
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Apr 27, 2020 15:36
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Harrow posted:I could see Zack being like KH2 Roxas where we play as him at the start of FF7R Part 2 before it becoming like a "this isn't how things are supposed to be" and he dies again or we just come back to Cloud for some other reason, or I could see Zack being like Laguna in FF8 where we get short like flash-sideways segments of playing as Zack that Cloud dreams or thinks he hallucinates. It'll cut every so often to Zack as he looks for Cloud, eats potato chips to collect every novelty Stamp cover and indulged in random squat exercises. Eventually he'll get caught up in Midgars patriotic fervor and reenlist to make those Wutai scum and their AVALANCHE puppets in Cosmo Canyon pay and then he's a boss fight but Cloud and Aerith aren't around so Barret just shoots him.
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Apr 27, 2020 15:41
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Beefstew posted:Tifa no-sells her reaction to Sephiroth in this game and it's a bit of a problem for me. I didn't even think about that, but yeah I agree. Aerith "planet-splaining" the threat Sephiroth represents to the party is sort of pointless when like half the party already knows the guy and has tried to kill him.
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Apr 27, 2020 15:46
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I can't WAIT for The Price of Freedom's remaster in the next game. As is, the song is already fantastic, and I don't know how they could make it better, but I trust them to.
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Apr 27, 2020 15:51
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So like, is this whole plan of Sephiroth's just him grappling with the concept of mortality? I keep thinking about it, and that has to be what it is, especially if Aerith is supposed to be his foil here. Like let's say the planet dies of natural causes outside of Meteor, and he's like, "Oh no! I don't want that." And then he has a mega big brained moment because he remembers that Cloud killed him like twice (three times if you count Advent Children), and he's like "Wait! If Cloud could do that to ME, he must be special just like me. And it always seems to happen when his suffering is at his highest. If I increase that suffering early enough, he could become so powerful. We could both stop this. I am such a loving genius," but he doesn't realize that this is a Power of Friendship story and he should probably be more worried about Aerith. I....love this? I love when villains are so close to figuring out what they're doing wrong but completely miss the actual solution because they don't realize how far off the rails they've gotten. It's fascinating. Especially since Sephiroth doesn't want to become part of the life stream anymore and reincarnate because he's already "perfect". So the entire game is happening because he refuses to move the gently caress on like the other Final Fantasy villains had to. It's so good. I can't wait for him to fail and have a giant man baby fit about it. Oxxidation posted:you spelling it like that is making me picture cloud as francis york morgan Ah poo poo, I keep confusing the spelling.
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Apr 27, 2020 16:08
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Ainsley McTree posted:Maybe. But how many times do you fight Jenova in FFVII throughout the game? They could do the same thing with Sephiroth and have it work. They'd have to do something creative with the music, but you know what, I think I trust them at this point What, like 4 I think? Oddly I caught a weird whiff of 8's time-fuckery story in the way they handled the fight against the big purple manifestation of fate itself. They said the three elemental enemies were the will of a (presumably bad) future timeline fighting to ensure it came to pass. What they were fighting was clearly a future in which Jenova, via Sephiroth, won, it clearly involves a meteor wiping out humanity, and that purple thing is probably some godlike manifestation of Jenova once she gets a hold of that sweet sweet lifestream juice. That's clearly not the plan the planet has for itself, and the game might be taking the story in a direction that leans on a bunch of parallel storyline stuff (e.g. Zack) to set up encounters with Jenova either indirectly or directly so that you're fighting around plot points you already know the outcomes of but in such a way that avoids the doom timeline from winning. Chances are the next game is a flashback that covers Cloud's story from Kalm to Midgar with Zack being either a narrator or the player while Cloud narrates. It's obvious they parted ways with Shinra by that point and in the original story Kalm is where Sephiroth turns villain so it's probably going to be Zack and Cloud vs Sephiroth, they fight him off to save Tifa, and get chased back to Midgar as traitors by Shinra regulars.
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Apr 27, 2020 16:18
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FAUXTON posted:What, like 4 I think? nnnno, they were very obviously fighting for the canon timeline of the original FF7, hence why the big-boy whisper kept jamming images of it into the party's heads every time it took a severe injury
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Apr 27, 2020 16:26
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Oxxidation posted:nnnno, they were very obviously fighting for the canon timeline of the original FF7, hence why the big-boy whisper kept jamming images of it into the party's heads every time it took a severe injury I wonder how much the party actually knows now. IIRC the flashes they saw where the last shot of FF7 and a bunch of snippets of Aerith's death. Could they piece it together?
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Apr 27, 2020 16:31
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Remember Meteor does end up hitting Midgar and loving it up to an undetermined extent, despite the intervention of Holy & the lifestream. Even with the party ultimately succeeding a whole lot of people still died in the finale.
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Apr 27, 2020 16:33
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Oxxidation posted:nnnno, they were very obviously fighting for the canon timeline of the original FF7, hence why the big-boy whisper kept jamming images of it into the party's heads every time it took a severe injury Didn't they explicitly say the "500 years later" bit in Red's head was what would happen if they lost?
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Apr 27, 2020 16:33
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FAUXTON posted:Didn't they explicitly say the "500 years later" bit in Red's head was what would happen if they lost? yes, if the whispers won the fight then that would mean the canon timeline (and by extension the epilogue with red encountering the decayed midgar) would be preserved the whispers aren't fighting for a "bad" future, just for a known one
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Apr 27, 2020 16:35
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Oxxidation posted:nnnno, they were very obviously fighting for the canon timeline of the original FF7, hence why the big-boy whisper kept jamming images of it into the party's heads every time it took a severe injury I wonder how intentional those visions were for Ultra Big Boy Whisper to be showing them. Was it intentionally trying to show them that future in hopes it would convince them to stop, or were those just wild visions flying around as it broke apart? How "intelligent" are the Whispers, anyway? FAUXTON posted:Didn't they explicitly say the "500 years later" bit in Red's head was what would happen if they lost? Red says it's "a glimpse of tomorrow if we fail here today." He's basically saying that's what the future holds if they don't break free of the Whispers' control. It's not really a comment on whether it's a good or bad future--but it is their future if they follow the path the Whispers want to take them down.
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Apr 27, 2020 16:51
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If only someone had thought to tell them that they win with relatively minor losses in the default timeline which isn't actually worth risking just because Aerith doesn't like the idea of fate.
stev fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Apr 27, 2020 |
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Apr 27, 2020 16:53
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stev posted:I wonder how much the party actually knows now. IIRC the flashes they saw where the last shot of FF7 and a bunch of snippets of Aerith's death. Could they piece it together? Also I have not watched it but the internet has informed me that those three elementals are straight up characters from Advent Children, the implication being that if you win and change the outcome they might not come to exist. What I took from the last chapter is that Aerith and Sephiroth both want to derail fate, Aerith because she's seen glimpses of the original future and wants to do better, and Sephiroth because clearly the original ending wasn't great for him either. But Aerith is pretty conflicted about it because she has some idea about the stakes, and she's giving up a known future that's kinda lovely for an unknown that might end in complete failure. That line at the end about Aerith missing the steel sky is a direct expression of that conflictedness -- an hour before, she described going through the portal and beating up fate as unlocking a terrifying wide open sky or something like that.
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Apr 27, 2020 16:55
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stev posted:If only someone had thought to tell them that they win with relatively minor losses in the default timeline which isn't actually worth risking just because Aerith doesn't like the idea of fate. The loss of the last remaining Ancient and humanity eventually dying out (OG FF7 ending) might be a minor loss only from the Planet's perspective.
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Apr 27, 2020 17:00
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Oxxidation posted:yes, if the whispers won the fight then that would mean the canon timeline (and by extension the epilogue with red encountering the decayed midgar) would be preserved None of the meteor scenes show the lifestream/holy shielding the planet.
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Apr 27, 2020 17:02
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FAUXTON posted:None of the meteor scenes show the lifestream/holy shielding the planet. we get only brief flashes of the most definitive scenes in the canon story while the game says over and over again that the whispers are there to preserve the original timeline just take the L, you're making this even more complicated than it needs to be
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Apr 27, 2020 17:03
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Chomposaur posted:Also I have not watched it but the internet has informed me that those three elementals are straight up characters from Advent Children, the implication being that if you win and change the outcome they might not come to exist. Yeah, I find this part interesting. The Whisper Trio have very strong similarities to the Sephiroth remnants from Advent Children. Rubrum is Kadaj, Viridi is Loz (even has the same elemental affinity), and Croceo is Yazoo. In Advent Children, those three are basically pieces of Sephiroth's will/consciousness that linger in the Lifestream. I have to wonder if it "means" anything that the Whisper Trio so closely resemble them, or if it's just an Easter egg. Is it the Sephiroth remnants fighting for a future in which they exist? Is it Sephiroth's will already infecting the Whispers? Or is it just a fun reference? There's also a theme from Advent Children that appears in FF7R, right near the beginning. After Cloud's alleyway encounter with Sephiroth, "The Promised Land" plays, which is music from Advent Children, not the original FF7: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0ykjghVoaA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7ucFzXPo4M Fun Easter egg, or meant to suggest an actual connection to Advent Children?
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Apr 27, 2020 17:06
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