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So much additional poo poo I pick up on replying stuff. When the whisper tornado snatches you, you end up flashing by the Temple of the Ancients. What does it mean? No loving idea, but I love it.
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Apr 27, 2020 17:08
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Harrow posted:Yeah, I find this part interesting. The Whisper Trio have very strong similarities to the Sephiroth remnants from Advent Children. Rubrum is Kadaj, Viridi is Loz (even has the same elemental affinity), and Croceo is Yazoo. In Advent Children, those three are basically pieces of Sephiroth's will/consciousness that linger in the Lifestream. I have to wonder if it "means" anything that the Whisper Trio so closely resemble them, or if it's just an Easter egg. Is it the Sephiroth remnants fighting for a future in which they exist? Is it Sephiroth's will already infecting the Whispers? Or is it just a fun reference? In the Easy Allies FF7R discussion with Maximilian Dood, they postulated that the Sephiroth that was loving with Cloud's brain in Chapter 2 onwards has actually been Sephiroth post-Advent Children, using the same things you mentioned above. He knows he lost in that timeline and wants to prevent it.
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Apr 27, 2020 17:09
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anakha posted:In the Easy Allies FF7R discussion with Maximilian Dood, they postulated that the Sephiroth that was loving with Cloud's brain in Chapter 2 onwards has actually been Sephiroth post-Advent Children, using the same things you mentioned above. He knows he lost in that timeline and wants to prevent it. Yeah, that podcast is what got me thinking about it. What I'm trying to figure out is why the Whisper Trio mimic the Sephiroth remnants if they're fighting against you changing fate. Why would they want the original timeline to happen? That's what makes me think that's either an Easter egg, or the reason Aerith wants you to kill the Whispers is because Sephiroth is already infecting them. (It's probably just an Easter egg.) Also I forgot how insanely good "The Promised Land" is from Advent Children. What a beautiful theme. I may not like that movie but at least it gave us a lot of fantastic music.
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Apr 27, 2020 17:11
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Maybe the reason why the other characters don't react to Sephiroth at the end is that it's only from Clouds perspective, and what they're really seeing is the individual manifestation of their greatest fear given flesh. So Tifa thinks she's fighting a huge pull-up bar the whole time.
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Apr 27, 2020 17:12
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Harrow posted:Yeah, that podcast is what got me thinking about it. What I'm trying to figure out is why the Whisper Trio mimic the Sephiroth remnants if they're fighting against you changing fate. Why would they want the original timeline to happen? That's what makes me think that's either an Easter egg, or the reason Aerith wants you to kill the Whispers is because Sephiroth is already infecting them. (It's probably just an Easter egg.) Another theory is that the Planet knows the Sephiroth remnants gave the heroes trouble before and manifested them in the hopes of having similar success.
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Apr 27, 2020 17:20
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anakha posted:Another theory is that the Planet knows the Sephiroth remnants gave the heroes trouble before and manifested them in the hopes of having similar success. Did they give the heroes trouble? I recall them all being swatted away like flies to make way for Big Daddy as soon as there was no more plot to worry about.
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Apr 27, 2020 17:23
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stev posted:Did they give the heroes trouble? I recall them all being swatted away like flies to make way for Big Daddy as soon as there was no more plot to worry about. Kinda meta, but as the collective embodiment of 'sticking to the plot', wouldn't it make more sense for the Whispers to manifest them then?
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Apr 27, 2020 17:27
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anakha posted:In the Easy Allies FF7R discussion with Maximilian Dood, they postulated that the Sephiroth that was loving with Cloud's brain in Chapter 2 onwards has actually been Sephiroth post-Advent Children, using the same things you mentioned above. He knows he lost in that timeline and wants to prevent it. He refuses to be a memory. 
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Apr 27, 2020 17:34
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I thought the boss whispers were representations of future Cloud, Barret & Tifa, the goon squad from Advent Children really seems like a reach.
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Apr 27, 2020 17:36
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It’s Nomura. He’s gonna go batshit kingdom hearts within a game. Be prepared to organization Shinra with 13 Sephiroth clones.
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Apr 27, 2020 17:39
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multijoe posted:I thought the boss whispers were representations of future Cloud, Barret & Tifa, the goon squad from Advent Children really seems like a reach. If you look at the weapons that they use, they are identical to the weapons the advent children use.
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Apr 27, 2020 17:39
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multijoe posted:I thought the boss whispers were representations of future Cloud, Barret & Tifa, the goon squad from Advent Children really seems like a reach. I think the idea was that two guns, a big shocky arm and a sword more proportionate to it's wielder map to those knuckleheads better then the original 3 party members.
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Apr 27, 2020 17:39
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multijoe posted:I thought the boss whispers were representations of future Cloud, Barret & Tifa, the goon squad from Advent Children really seems like a reach. Thing is, they're more similar to the Sephiroth remnants than they are to Cloud, Barret, and Tifa, especially Viridi (one giant glove instead of two gloves) and Croceo (two guns instead of one). Could just be a coincidence in design, or a consequence of them both being designed with similar ideas (being similar to that core trio without being exactly like them). Loz and Whisper Viridi also share an affinity for lightning. These things could all be coincidental, but this is also a game where they threw in a snippet of a theme from Advent Children after you first see Sephiroth, so I can't really dismiss the possibility it's intentional. If they are intended to be references to the Sephiroth remnants, I'm not really sure that's story-important, either. Could just be an Easter egg for people to notice.
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Apr 27, 2020 17:42
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The Whispers are literally matched up against their corresponding weapon-user in their first cutscene. It's visual language to represent Cloud, Tifa, and Barret fighting their fates. It's not the loving Remnants because that makes no sense either narratively nor canonically. And if this the case, then the ending is even dumber than previously understood.
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Apr 27, 2020 17:49
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Beefstew posted:The Whispers are literally matched up against their corresponding weapon-user in their first cutscene. It's visual language to represent Cloud, Tifa, and Barret fighting their fates. I mean, why are Aerith and Red XIII left out, then? Why don't they get counterparts? They're fighting their fates just as much as Cloud, Tifa, and Barret are, and they take part in that battle, too. In fact the last half of the fight is Cloud, Tifa, and Aerith fighting them, with Barret on the sidelines. Like I said before, I'm pretty sure the similarities between the Whisper Trio and the Remnants is an Easter egg more than anything, but still, in a game like this I don't think it makes sense to totally dismiss the possibility it's an intentional reference if nothing else. I mean, poo poo, they even summon Bahamut. Harrow fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Apr 27, 2020 |
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Apr 27, 2020 17:52
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I really enjoyed the plot and if it turns out that it causes Advent Children and Dirge of Cerbereus to never happen it´s just another bonus.
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Apr 27, 2020 17:57
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Harrow posted:I mean, why are Aerith and Red XIII left out, then? Why don't they get counterparts? They're fighting their fates just as much as Cloud, Tifa, and Barret are, and they take part in that battle, too. In fact the last half of the fight is Cloud, Tifa, and Aerith fighting them, with Barret on the sidelines. Aeris is dead. Red XIII isn't playable. Bahamut's in everything and doesn't resemble the one they summoned. Whisper Rubrum does not use a katana. The Remnants get freed from evil's influence ag the end of AC anyway. In keeping with the theming of the OP, I'd consider them being the Remnants the most https://twitter.com/thelindsayellis/status/1086534022996451328 thing ever. EDIT: gently caress, the OPs been edited to remove the Lindsay Ellis tweets, thereby ruining my joke.
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Apr 27, 2020 17:59
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Rubrum is Murbur spelled backwards. Makes you think.
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Apr 27, 2020 18:00
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I was hoping because they defied fate it means that Advent Children just doesn't exist anymore.
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Apr 27, 2020 18:01
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Invalid Validation posted:Be prepared to organization Shinra with 13 Sephiroth clones. You do realize Seph already had 50+ clones in the original FF7, yes?
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Apr 27, 2020 18:02
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Beefstew posted:Aeris is dead. Are you suggesting that Rubrum, Viridi, and Croceo are literally Cloud, Tifa, and Barret traveling back in time to defend their future, then? Otherwise Aerith being dead in the future shouldn't matter if it's just visual language to show them fighting their fates--she's alive now, and fighting her fate alongside the other three. If we're talking "you are literally fighting Cloud, Tifa, and Barret from the future" then frankly I think that's significantly stupider than even "the Whisper Trio are literally the Sephiroth Remnants."
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Apr 27, 2020 18:03
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Harrow posted:Are you suggesting that Rubrum, Viridi, and Croceo are literally Cloud, Tifa, and Barret traveling back in time to defend their future, then? Otherwise Aerith being dead in the future shouldn't matter if it's just visual language to show them fighting their fates--she's alive now, and fighting her fate alongside the other three. My brain read it as some sort of platonic forms of their future selves. Which is also dumb, but seems to be more in line with what the game is trying to communicate.
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Apr 27, 2020 18:08
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Sword/gun/fist is clearly a reference to the Mii Fighters in Super Smash Bros, in which Cloud was a participant The final boss of part 2 will be Crazy Hand
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Apr 27, 2020 18:09
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I was on board with the trio being something like the future ideal of the party. Red and Aerith don't get one because they are already woke for whatever reason. But the internet lore disectors have come up with enough info on how they are very Advent Children and unfortunately that seems to be stretching less. The full answer is either going to be weirder or stupider or both and I can't wait to find out.
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Apr 27, 2020 18:15
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Think there'll be content DLC for this game? I wouldn't think so normally but the weapon screen clearly has seven slots and there are only six weapons per character. Beefstew posted:My brain read it as some sort of platonic forms of their future selves. Which is also dumb, but seems to be more in line with what the game is trying to communicate. zedprime posted:Red and Aerith don't get one because they are already woke for whatever reason. Yeah, that makes sense, too. Maybe they just sorta backed into the same sort of design by asking the same sort of "echoes of the Core Three that are similar but different" questions?
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Apr 27, 2020 18:15
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exquisite tea posted:Maybe the reason why the other characters don't react to Sephiroth at the end is that it's only from Clouds perspective, and what they're really seeing is the individual manifestation of their greatest fear given flesh. So Tifa thinks she's fighting a huge pull-up bar the whole time. Nobody can beat the pull up bar minigame because it keeps casting Heartless Angel.
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Apr 27, 2020 18:16
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zedprime posted:The full answer is either going to be weirder or stupider or both and I can't wait to find out. I dunno that there'll be a full answer. I think it's possible that we'll never really see or hear about them again; we did kill them, after all, and seemingly achieve our goal of breaking the chains of fate already.
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Apr 27, 2020 18:20
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Guys I think they're just multicoloured fate ghosts.
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Apr 27, 2020 18:20
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Lol at anyone who thinks Nomura has a secret galaxy brain plan to tie this clusterfuck together. He's more abusive with empty mystery boxes and hollow signifiers than J.J. Abrams.
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Apr 27, 2020 18:24
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Beefstew posted:Lol at anyone who thinks Nomura has a secret galaxy brain plan to tie this clusterfuck together. He's more abusive with empty mystery boxes and hollow signifiers than J.J. Abrams. I don't think this game really had any mystery boxes did it? The whispers stuff is just fan theory at the moment and doesn't really mean anything to the plot.
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Apr 27, 2020 18:33
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Beefstew posted:Lol at anyone who thinks Nomura has a secret galaxy brain plan to tie this clusterfuck together. friendly reminder that Nomura didn't write this game
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Apr 27, 2020 18:37
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Bleck posted:friendly reminder that Nomura didn't write this game Nomura worked on half the things people that bust him think he didn't, and didn't work on half the things they thought he did. Nomura is like Satan to a middle ages peasant, you can blame him for anything.
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Apr 27, 2020 18:39
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stev posted:I don't think this game really had any mystery boxes did it? The whispers stuff is just fan theory at the moment and doesn't really mean anything to the plot. I think the biggest "mystery box" elements are: - Why does Sephiroth seem to know the future? Why did an Advent Children music cue play after his first appearance? - Why does Aerith seem to know the future? What does she know that she isn't telling us? - Is Zack alive in our timeline, or is he in an alternate timeline? Did the different Stamp suggest a different timeline, or a serious retcon to our own? In either case: why? What does that mean for part 2? - What did Sephiroth mean by "seven seconds till the end?" What does he want from Cloud this time around?
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Apr 27, 2020 18:40
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Bleck posted:friendly reminder that Nomura didn't write this game And that Nojima wrote Advent Children, that hilariously bad Final Fantasy X audio drama, and was involved in the story for Kingdom Hearts III. It's never as simple as one person  Mulva posted:Nomura worked on half the things people that bust him think he didn't, and didn't work on half the things they thought he did. Nomura is like Satan to a middle ages peasant, you can blame him for anything. I've pointed it out before, but Nomura is also credited with some important story ideas from the original Final Fantasy VII. For example, it was apparently his idea to have the group chasing Sephiroth be a major part of the story--he liked the idea of a moving enemy leading the heroes on a mystery/merry chase. He also talked Kitase out of killing off all but three members of the main party. Originally, all but three of your party members would die before the final battle, but Nomura argued against it, because he wanted to preserve the impact of Aerith's death. Nomura for sure had input on FF7R's story, especially since he's directing this time, but his input on previous FF7 things hasn't been all bad, either.
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Apr 27, 2020 18:44
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Harrow posted:I think the biggest "mystery box" elements are: Wouldn't these count as just sequel hooks here? Weird thing to say considering what game they're remaking, but I will say that all of this weird poo poo made me actually want to buy the game and see for myself instead of just going, "Eh, I have a port of the original so I don't know if it's worth getting."
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Apr 27, 2020 18:58
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Yeah, calling things a mystery box is just premature. If by the end of the second game and nothing is answered from this one and all we are stuck with are more questions then it'll be safe to call it all a mystery box.
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Apr 27, 2020 18:59
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Bleck posted:friendly reminder that Nomura didn't write this game Friendly reminder that video game writers do not just "do whatever." They craft a scenario typically designated by the director. And if y'all can't see the very conspicuous fingerprints then I honestly think you're deluding yourselves. You could take that poo poo to Quantico and get DNA evidence. Nomura is a director. He has authority on pretty much everything that happens. At best, he signed off on someone else's shite decision. But I really don't think he's some hapless victim of circumstance who's cruelly followed by his own arbiter of fate that forces him to take lead roles on narrative disasters pretty consistently. I'm pretttty sure he might have a bit of culpability there. You know. Just a tad.
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Apr 27, 2020 19:03
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Nomura hung up my toilet roll the wrong way round
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Apr 27, 2020 19:03
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Someone in one of my Discord channels broke down the Advent Children theory like this - quote:- Sephiroth is from the future and goes back to ff7 Thanos style to change the timeline to stay alive.
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Apr 27, 2020 19:05
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I honestly thought people were saying Yazoo as a dumb joke name. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sQGwDeambg
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Apr 27, 2020 19:10
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