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Biden himself said if you don't want to vote for him them go vote for Trump. Why is anyone telling people who don't want to vote for Joe Biden to vote for him anyway? Biden himself wouldn't even want that.
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Apr 27, 2020 17:46
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Pomp posted:Are you aware you are a literal fascist Sounds like I’m doing more to stop fascists than you.
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Apr 27, 2020 17:47
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yronic heroism posted:If we have agreed that all voting is a compromise we are merely haggling over price and can at least agree everyone should shove the absolutist rhetoric over accepting lesser evil still being evil, etc. Do you not read what you type? Its not absolutist to say the lesser evil is still evil, its an obvious fact. Its in the name, lesser evil. e: ^^ lol
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Apr 27, 2020 17:47
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LooooooooooopoooooooooollkydxSyivsrhh
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Apr 27, 2020 17:47
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yronic heroism posted:Sounds like I’m doing more to stop fascists than you. Thank you for your service.
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Apr 27, 2020 17:48
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Ghost Leviathan posted:And possibly Jesse Ventura. If we can get a SOTU like this then I'll vote for the crazy conspiracy theorist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSO8Bw8hW9o
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Apr 27, 2020 17:48
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Please tell me everything you are doing to materially oppose fascism Your posts don't count
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Apr 27, 2020 17:49
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evilweasel posted:it is also worth pointing out how rapidly this thread has seized on 4chan/reddit/etc pro-trump memes like "orange man bad" lol you have nothing
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Apr 27, 2020 17:49
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Bernies not going to have any influence on the Democrats https://twitter.com/LWVNYS/status/1254804375022768128
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Apr 27, 2020 17:51
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yronic heroism posted:If you can’t see the difference between Republican and Democratic policies you just aren’t being honest with yourself. They're both rapists. They're not a lesser and greater evil, they're just evil. It's the realm of the morally bankrupt to rank out the severity of crimes that deny others their humanity. They're both just evil because they both show an inability to see other humans as human and deserving of basic human rights, any arguing beyond that is to make yourself feel better about voting for a rapist.
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Apr 27, 2020 17:51
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ColonelMuttonchops posted:Do you not read what you type? Its not absolutist to say the lesser evil is still evil, its an obvious fact. Its in the name, lesser evil. Try again to comprehend the post rather than cherrypick. If you, as many, argue that Bernie accepts or does X bad thing, you are haggling over price. You can always outwoke others but can be outwoked in turn.
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Apr 27, 2020 17:51
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yronic heroism posted:Try again to comprehend the post rather than cherrypick. If you, as many, argue that Bernie accepts or does X bad thing, you are haggling over price. You can always outwoke others but can be outwoked in turn. How many women would Joe Biden had to have stuck his fingers into for you to decide you can't vote for him?
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Apr 27, 2020 17:53
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Pomp posted:Please tell me everything you are doing to materially oppose fascism Actually lifting a finger to beat Trump is I’m sure more than you’ve done in your life.
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Apr 27, 2020 17:53
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i got owned posted:Biden himself said if you don't want to vote for him them go vote for Trump. now now be fair, this is a misrepresentation of his comments he said that if you're interested in things like a GND, M4A, or prison/immigration reforms, you should vote for Trump yronic heroism posted:Sounds like I’m doing more to stop fascists than you. lol what has the Epstein wing of the party ever done to oppose Trump or any other chud fash that our cherished elite institutions have vomited up to advance the imperial project? They couldn't have ended up with better enablers if they'd designed them themselves from the ground up. Biden is literally campaigning on advancing Republican policy, allowing them to be decision-makers in the admin, and putting them in his cabinet or VP. Why is he willing to say this about a generic Republican but not a specific Bernie, for example? If you think the people in power now are evil, and Biden is campaigning on keeping most of them in power even if he wins, exactly what end game to a Biden win do you envision? How does voting for and supporting a fiscal and social conservative wedded to the machine of destruction status quo advance any single anti-fascist goals?
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Apr 27, 2020 17:53
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yronic heroism posted:Try again to comprehend the post rather than cherrypick. If you, as many, argue that Bernie accepts or does X bad thing, you are haggling over price. You can always outwoke others but can be outwoked in turn. How many good deeds outweigh a rape?
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Apr 27, 2020 17:53
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yronic heroism posted:Sounds like I’m doing more to stop fascists than you. Do go one and explain how you stop fascism. I'm genuinely curious.
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Apr 27, 2020 17:54
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yronic heroism posted:If you can’t see the difference between Republican and Democratic policies you just aren’t being honest with yourself. It's getting harder to see the difference when both parties are nominating bumbling, incoherent, rapists. Especially when both parties openly encouraged actions that have literally killed people during a loving pandemic.
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Apr 27, 2020 17:55
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yronic heroism posted:Actually lifting a finger to beat Trump is I’m sure more than you’ve done in your life. weird voting for the people that enable him seems like the opposite of that!
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Apr 27, 2020 17:55
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yronic heroism posted:Try again to comprehend the post rather than cherrypick. If you, as many, argue that Bernie accepts or does X bad thing, you are haggling over price. You can always outwoke others but can be outwoked in turn. lol “outwoke”, okay fascist
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Apr 27, 2020 17:56
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https://twitter.com/johnjcook/status/1254812469916295170
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Apr 27, 2020 17:57
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Epic High Five posted:Biden is literally campaigning on advancing Republican policy, allowing them to be decision-makers in the admin, and putting them in his cabinet or VP. Why is he willing to say this about a generic Republican but not a specific Bernie, for example? If you think the people in power now are evil, and Biden is campaigning on keeping most of them in power even if he wins, exactly what end game to a Biden win do you envision? How does voting for and supporting a fiscal and social conservative wedded to the machine of destruction status quo advance any single anti-fascist goals? Who are “most of” the Trump appointees who will retain their posts in a Biden admin?
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Apr 27, 2020 17:57
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Uncle Wemus posted:Bernies not going to have any influence on the Democrats everyday I wake up thinking I was already as certain as I could be that this party is dogshit and I'll never support them again everyday I am convinced further e: all the libs saying "Biden could be moved left, just use the system" before should apologize tbh
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Apr 27, 2020 17:58
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Uncle Wemus posted:Bernies not going to have any influence on the Democrats Well there's another 5% of Americans disenfranchised from this farce of a democratic process. For those still on the fence, how many Americans must be refused the ability to vote, risk death to vote, or have their votes ignored by party officials before you personally will decide this isn't democratic? It has to be more than 5%, since we're above that now. 25%? Does it take half of Americans being disenfranchised or risking death or homelessness? Or is it democratic as long as one person somewhere gets to cast a free and fair ballot?
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Apr 27, 2020 17:58
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yronic heroism posted:Who are “most of” the Trump appointees who will retain their posts in a Biden admin? So which of Biden's policies makes it acceptable that he raped a woman? Why does he deserve to be the most powerful man in the world?
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Apr 27, 2020 17:58
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yronic heroism posted:Sounds like I’m doing more to stop fascists than you. your prefered candidate is a warmongering demented rapist whose entire political toolbox is "make nice with the fascists"
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Apr 27, 2020 17:59
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yronic heroism posted:Actually lifting a finger to beat Trump is I’m sure more than you’ve done in your life. Real quick, buddy, when was the last time you held space for a unhoused young queer who was crying because she keeps getting assaulted and she's afraid someone is going to knife their way into her tent and do it again. When was the last time you felt that powerless to help someone in any way but to elevate their voice
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Apr 27, 2020 18:00
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yronic heroism posted:Who are “most of” the Trump appointees who will retain their posts in a Biden admin?  I'm only half joking
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Apr 27, 2020 18:00
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When was the last time you really stared capital in it's face bro
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Apr 27, 2020 18:01
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I have to admit, I'm a little tired of having malus ascribed to my every action in politics. I understand that's the norm, and probably always will be, but loving hell. If we're going to pretend that we're all arguing in good faith here, even if it's not always true, is it not maybe the slightest bit possible that I did, in fact, put a great deal of thought into my conclusions, and arrived at a different answer than you, in the way that I suggested? Biden's history is abominable. He is quite possibly the worst of a crowded field, save maybe only Bloomberg. That the media decided he was their darling, that many primary voters recognize his name and nothing else, that we live in an unbelievably broken system that is going to just keep spitting out the worst of all possible people until the system is shaken from the ground up, all this I have no direct control over. I voted for Hillary even though I found her to be an unpleasant compromise, because the alternative was indeed obviously much worse; it made sense that progressive coalition-building would be more productive and (probably) fewer people would be harmed without the biggest loving piece of poo poo in the country in that office. I was worried by Hillary's place in the 'moderate' 'bomb brown people and pay off banks' apparatus, but it seemed like a more than reasonable gamble to make, since it seemed theoretically easier to avert pointless wars when it wasn't a civil war being stirred up by a sitting fascist president. Biden has done little over his long career to inspire even that level of lukewarm confidence. He's a piece of poo poo who has consistently worked against civil rights, social security, and the interests of minorities his entire career. In his role helping to build the war on drugs and the war in Iraq and the war on immigration, Biden created the material conditions that lead to Trump and built many of the apparatuses that Trump is abusing. Again, if Biden were appointing progressive voices to his campaign, I could probably be lead to see him as the harm reduction option. I might loving drink myself to death after the election because it's loving inexcusable to give any rapist power over other people, but I could see the mental calculus existing to pull the lever before punching myself into a bloody heap. But he's not doing that. Biden's campaign has, repeatedly, affirmed its mission to do harm. They pushed for people to come out and vote in the middle of a loving pandemic when it was already clear it was a victory lap. They have tapped industry lobbyists and told the disaffected that they will receive no sympathy or help. They have indicated a desire to give the filibuster back to the Republicans. And all of this is again ignoring that Biden has, consistently, worked to further conservative interests (ie, harming people), over helping people, including seating conservative judges and promoting bullshit wars and putting children in cages, often doing these things over the objections of his own party. That Biden would normalize his harm as president by doing it more quietly isn't a good endorsement of Biden. I could easily have been persuaded to vote for loving Pete or Yang or Warren rather than Biden, because of all the candidates I don't think anyone is more dedicated to loving people over than Biden. He might actually, legitimately, be worse than Trump, which is a loving staggering proposition. That it's even remotely close should be disqualifying. And people shouldn't be ashamed for having moral principles that preclude legitimizing a rapist being placed into a position of power. If you can say with a straight face that victims of abuse choosing not to vote for an abuser is reducible to the same level of vitriol and mindless hatred as the red hat and tiki torch mobs, I would suggest maybe you reexamine your own assumptions on morality first. I wasted too many words on this clunky effort, but I don't know what else there even is to be said on the topic.
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Apr 27, 2020 18:01
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yronic heroism posted:Try again to comprehend the post rather than cherrypick. If you, as many, argue that Bernie accepts or does X bad thing, you are haggling over price. You can always outwoke others but can be outwoked in turn. Yeah, I ignored the haggling thing because its dumb coward bullshit, so the part I mentioned was the only thing of substance in your post, what little of it there was. People have made it very clear that they're not going to vote for a rapist, which is a very legitimate reason, and all you're able to respond with is vote shaming garbage. You don't actually have anything to say, and yet you continue to post.
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Apr 27, 2020 18:02
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Bro do you even know about direct action bro
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Apr 27, 2020 18:03
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evilweasel posted:...so we come back to it: why do policy arguments not sway the remaining holdouts? because it's not about policy. for the same reason trump's base doesn't desert him when he makes their lives worse, the people who are saying they hope trump wins over biden aren't doing it because they think that will make their lives better. they're doing it because at the end of the day they just don't care: they're angry people and they want to hurt someone for it. had their life circumstances been slightly different, they'd be wearing MAGA hats. it's why no amount of discussion of "well, you say you want X, here is how that is clearly advanced by a biden presidency and reversed by a second Trump presidency" makes a dent. people arguing for a second trump term probably have talked themselves into believing what they post. it's a rare trumpist who doesn't have an (obviously false, in the same way) explanation why they like trump. it's because a second trump presidency will hurt the people they hate, and that's all there is too it. that's a powerful motivation in all of us: wanting to see bad things happen to bad people. it is a little more powerful in angry, bitter people, and that's what we generally have here. Huh, it’s almost like the political spectrum forms some kind of.. horseshoe shape? (Liberals sure do love divining psychological fantasies to mask their insane cynicism) Let’s not let history get in the way, where after the liberals cede power to extreme right-wingers, it’s the leftists who have sacrificed the most to defeat them. Additionally, there are the ahistorical claims that Trump and his cronies are fascists/will bring about fascism, if we don't elect a different white supremacist. What this entails is what sociologist Dylan Riley framed as “…[treating] the past as a storehouse of disconnected examples to be pulled out for weaving morality tales or constructing yardsticks against which they measure the contemporary moment. The procedure is similar to what Hegel called the pragmatic form of reflective history, in which the writer searches for ‘examples of good deeds’ (or bad ones) without placing them in their historical context, thus creating a false immediacy in which the past appears as a reservoir of ‘lessons’. But as Hegel warned, ‘nothing is more shallow’.” https://newleftreview.org/issues/II114/articles/dylan-riley-what-is-trump KVeezy3 fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Apr 27, 2020 |
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Apr 27, 2020 18:05
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ColonelMuttonchops posted:Yeah, I ignored the haggling thing because its dumb coward bullshit, so the part I mentioned was the only thing of substance in your post, what little of it there was. People have made it very clear that they're not going to vote for a rapist, which is a very legitimate reason, and all you're able to respond with is vote shaming garbage. You don't actually have anything to say, and yet you continue to post. him ew and Lin have nothing to argue on other than spewing verbal diarrhea at you until you concede to get it to stop
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Apr 27, 2020 18:06
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Uncle Wemus posted:Bernies not going to have any influence on the Democrats Lol democracy in action. Sanders didn't have what it takes to knife Biden while he was down and he either badly miscalculated about what would happen after he dropped out & endorsed, was naive enough to think Biden wouldn't shank him as soon as the opportunity presented itself, or didn't care. What a disappointment.
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Apr 27, 2020 18:08
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yronic heroism posted:Who are “most of” the Trump appointees who will retain their posts in a Biden admin? lobbyists, donors, CEOs, all these people will maintain power under Biden just like they did under Trump and Obama, and no reforms or changes will happen as a result. Bloomberg in charge of World Bank, Daimon in charge of treasury, campaign already being advised by scum like Summers, and the list will get worse and worse as time goes on. Maybe Mnuchin changes his party registration and gets invited too probably, it's what Bloomberg did and he's chummy with Harris who despite being first term is considered to have seniority in selection processes I mean do you think Biden's going to put Faith Spotted Eagle in charge of the Interior or Energy? The Dems who aren't even willing to commit rhetorically to any reforms aren't going to do them secretly lol, which leads me back to my question - what have the center-right moderates like Pelosi and Schumer done in the last almost 4 years to meaningfully obstruct a single thing Trump or the GOP wanted? Shady Amish Terror posted:I have to admit, I'm a little tired of having malus ascribed to my every action in politics. I understand that's the norm, and probably always will be, but loving hell. If we're going to pretend that we're all arguing in good faith here, even if it's not always true, is it not maybe the slightest bit possible that I did, in fact, put a great deal of thought into my conclusions, and arrived at a different answer than you, in the way that I suggested? This is why I usually just advise Biden Bros to just stop trying, they're acting all alone. The party is not with them. They do not want the left on board, anybody who attempts to bring them on board will be punished. Anybody who adopts the left's messaging will be punished. This is a dangerous game you are all playing, and the party does not have your back. Biden is free to try to bring the left over that is still willing to hold their nose. But he's not, and he will not. Move on, get on the phones and text banks, go to right wing spaces online, talk to those people and convince them to vote for Biden. That's the party's strategy, and you support the party and its nominee, so get to it.
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Apr 27, 2020 18:08
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Gumball Gumption posted:So which of Biden's policies makes it acceptable that he raped a woman? Why does he deserve to be the most powerful man in the world? It’s not about what the candidates deserve. We deserve a president who is not Trump. Period. I want to get what we deserve. The media is investigating Tara Reade’s claims. They will either result in Biden being pushed aside or not, but either way Trump needs to lose. But if it were about what candidates deserve you bet I’d go out of my way to punish Trump first and foremost. For whatever reason, you choose to focus your spite on Democrats first and foremost. That’s about emotion so there’s no point arguing over it.
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Apr 27, 2020 18:08
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Epic High Five posted:now now be fair, this is a misrepresentation of his comments I want to say that joe will remove most of trumps high-level appointees if hes able, gotta at least pretend to clear out all of trumps people. But the policies they put into place? Oh yeah, alot of those are staying or getting expanded upon. We saw this with obama when he expanded our droning capabilities, beefed up on deportations, and tried to cut social security. And since joe is just obama but worse, his time in office is going to be the same but worse.Hell, he might even be able to cut SS. Sure, he might do some good things and advance some needed causes, as obama did. But will that outweigh all the bad? I sure as gently caress don't think so.
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Apr 27, 2020 18:09
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yronic heroism posted:It’s not about what the candidates deserve. We deserve a president who is not Trump. Period. I want to get what we deserve. There's more than two choices so you've got to convince me why either rapist deserves it. I also didn't vote Trump so it's not like I'm rewarding him. If you want me to help you put the crown on your king you better have a really good argument as to why none of the better options are available and why being a rapist running against another rapist doesn't just question the legitimacy of the entire process. Gumball Gumption fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Apr 27, 2020 |
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Apr 27, 2020 18:09
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Shady Amish Terror posted:He might actually, legitimately, be worse than Trump, which is a loving staggering proposition. That it's even remotely close should be disqualifying. no, he might not. there's no comparison. that's why i arrive at the conclusion i did: it is not possible to arrive at the idea that biden might be worse than trump. it requires motivated reasoning. perhaps it wasn't your motivated reasoning: perhaps you marinated in the anti-biden specific stuff and came to believe this even though it's laughably untrue and pete/warren/amy just all were out early enough that nobody's been really keeping the heat on those particular fires. but the idea that biden might be worse than trump on a policy axis is just nuts. that's all there is to it. people have made clear that is a preposition they will not reconsider. it's not a preposition people reasoned themselves into, because there's just no way to get there from here. it's a position people settled on as a justification for what they'd already decided to do. Shady Amish Terror posted:And people shouldn't be ashamed for having moral principles that preclude legitimizing a rapist being placed into a position of power. If you can say with a straight face that victims of abuse choosing not to vote for an abuser is reducible to the same level of vitriol and mindless hatred as the red hat and tiki torch mobs, I would suggest maybe you reexamine your own assumptions on morality first. i would certainly evaluate someone who wound up there through that logic differently, but i think i have seen exactly one post saying that was the reason. everyone else has been firmly "no joe!" well before, and what they choose to talk about when illustrating their reasons show where their emphasis is.
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Apr 27, 2020 18:09
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This is a big deal because the neighbour is specifically confirming the assault, not just the earlier harassment complaint.
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Apr 27, 2020 18:09
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