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Sneeze Party posted:I have two Seagate 8GB Ironwolf drives in my 2-bay Synology NAS. I think they're SMR. Does that mean if one of them fails, I won't be able to rebuild the array? All Ironwolf drives are CMR. https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2020/04/seagate-says-network-attached-storage-and-smr-dont-mix/
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Apr 26, 2020 16:12
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Steakandchips posted:All Ironwolf drives are CMR. https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2020/04/seagate-says-network-attached-storage-and-smr-dont-mix/
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Apr 26, 2020 16:39
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Sneeze Party posted:I have two Seagate 8GB Ironwolf drives in my 2-bay Synology NAS. I think they're SMR. Does that mean if one of them fails, I won't be able to rebuild the array? Ironwolf drives are all CMR. efb
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Apr 26, 2020 17:29
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Well it happened again. All my recent files have disappeared overnight for some reason. I had attributed it to power failure to the external drive I have hooked up, but that wasn't the case this time. The WD drive I'm using in only 7 months old too. I've even had what I thought were previously deleted files reappearing. I thought it was due to Plex/Sonarr mapping being weird, but now I'm not too sure. Any recommended steps beyond unmounting the drive and running fsck on it? Are the WDBBGB0040HBK-NESN drives known to be lemons? Edit> fsck just retruned a few bits on extent trees not being narrow enough and nothing of note. Warbird fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Apr 26, 2020 |
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Apr 26, 2020 20:38
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A bunch of years ago this thread recommended I get the Dell Perc H310 and those specialty cables to hook up the 8 drives in my tower in a JBoD setup. Now it's time to buy a new motherboard and I can't exactly tell if that Dell card will physically fit in the motherboard's numerous PCIe slots. I seem to remember it will only fit in certain types? Can anyone tell me if is the case? I would hate to buy a new motherboard only to discover this. I'm usually pretty good with hardware compatibility stuff but this one is making me scratch my head for some reason. Also, that card is probably not compatible with more modern motherboards, is there a different but similar card that is? Preferably one that uses that weird 1 port to 4 port cable setup since I already have two of those for my 8 drives.
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Apr 27, 2020 01:11
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It should work in any x8 or x16 PCIe slot.
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Apr 27, 2020 02:01
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Iirc, it's not anything weird, just an 8x PCIE slot. It's got an LSI 9211-8i chipset, just like the IBM m1015. The connectors are 2wo x4 internal mini-SAS SFF8087, which is also common. https://techmattr.wordpress.com/2016/04/11/updated-sas-hba-crossflashing-or-flashing-to-it-mode-dell-perc-h200-and-h310/
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Apr 27, 2020 02:04
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Thanks a ton! edit: Does it matter if the ports on the motherboard are PCI-E 2.0? 3.0? Will it work in either? Chumbawumba4ever97 fucked around with this message at 02:33 on Apr 27, 2020 |
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Apr 27, 2020 02:11
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Chumbawumba4ever97 posted:Thanks a ton! It'll work in either. It's natively a PCIe 2.0 card, so while you can put it in a 3.0 (or 4.0 if you're rolling AMD!) slot, you won't get any addition performance vs putting it in a 2.0 slot. Despite it being old, it should work just fine in a modern motherboard.
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Apr 27, 2020 04:38
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Maybe dumb question...instead of shucking drives why not leave them in their enclosure? If they're USB 3, is it gonna matter performance wise?
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Apr 27, 2020 05:44
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Ok, I've got my money lined up. Where, other than Slickdeals, should I be monitoring for 12TB drives to shuck?
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Apr 27, 2020 05:47
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Charles posted:Maybe dumb question...instead of shucking drives why not leave them in their enclosure? If they're USB 3, is it gonna matter performance wise? If you're using one drive? It's fine. I have one like this hooked up to a perma-stationary laptop that of course has no ability to use 3.5" drives on its own. Multiple drives? USB shares bandwidth, and that's a lot of power supplies to manage. Even when I do my initial drive testing after buying a bunch / before shucking, it's a pain in the rear end.
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Apr 27, 2020 05:54
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Toshimo posted:Ok, I've got my money lined up. Where, other than Slickdeals, should I be monitoring for 12TB drives to shuck? Camelcamelcamel alert for Amazon and checking Best Buy pretty much covers it.
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Apr 27, 2020 05:59
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IOwnCalculus posted:If you're using one drive? It's fine. I have one like this hooked up to a perma-stationary laptop that of course has no ability to use 3.5" drives on its own. Good point on the USB. USB 3 is 625MB/s hypothetical, how much can one hard drive do? I hate those micro connectors though. They always fall out on me. Maybe they're better on new ones.
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Apr 27, 2020 06:02
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Chumbawumba4ever97 posted:Now it's time to buy a new motherboard and I can't exactly tell if that Dell card will physically fit in the motherboard's numerous PCIe slots. I seem to remember it will only fit in certain types? Pci unlike basically every single other computer standard is passionately / aggressively compatible. You can potentially just zip cut the tabs/slot end out of a 1x slot and have a 16x device work, albeit at greatly reduced throughput. It's shocking how well things work. loving USB is only getting around to that now with USB-pd.
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Apr 27, 2020 06:08
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Charles posted:Maybe dumb question...instead of shucking drives why not leave them in their enclosure? If they're USB 3, is it gonna matter performance wise? Besides what IOwnCalculus said...ZFS supposedly works better when it has direct access to the disk. (Some? Many? Most? All?) USB enclosures add a layer of abstractions that hide details that ZFS needs.
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Apr 27, 2020 06:48
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Usb drives like to randomly disappear and poo poo too
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Apr 27, 2020 11:46
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Charles posted:Maybe dumb question...instead of shucking drives why not leave them in their enclosure? If they're USB 3, is it gonna matter performance wise? Thermopyle posted:Besides what IOwnCalculus said...ZFS supposedly works better when it has direct access to the disk. (Some? Many? Most? All?) USB enclosures add a layer of abstractions that hide details that ZFS needs. ZFS will happily work on any storage device, whether it's SCSI, SATA, SAS, MMC, NVMe, or FiberChannel - and while USB implementation can vary, most of the bays I've seen tend to use the mode that permits SATA Passthrough, which enables S.M.A.R.T data and NCQ cache control for the OS, so ZFS can work on USB too. I know Linux still implements some block devices as a form of cache (separate from filesystem and VM caches), but I would hope that it's disabled when ZFS is used, probably via an ioctl. It's not a problem for FreeBSD, since that got rid of block devices two decades ago because they risk data corruption. BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 11:58 on Apr 27, 2020 |
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Apr 27, 2020 11:51
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Charles posted:Maybe dumb question...instead of shucking drives why not leave them in their enclosure? If they're USB 3, is it gonna matter performance wise? Because I'm not leaving 4-8 drives dangling around where my cats can knock them over and where my girlfriend will be annoyed that they look like an ugly rat's nest when I can just crack them open and slot them inside the case where they belong. You'll always have more latency using a USB drive than a native SATA link, but for a spinning hard drive that's probably not going to matter much, anyhow. Mostly it's just one more (well, several, actually) thing that can fail, break, get dislodged, fall over, decide it wants to corrupt data, etc. Multiply that by the 4-16 drives a lot of us are running, and it makes sense to simplify things as much as possible, even if there's probably minimal performance differences in most cases. e; I think "ZFS wants direct access" is more talking about running it in a VM where, unless you're using PCIe pass-through, there are some concerns about ZFS not being able to do things like control when data is actually physically written to a disk, which can cause potential problems. Then again, a lot of the "common wisdom" about ZFS is from enterprise applications where the default assumption is that you cannot afford any data loss and you will be serving concurrent read/write access to hundreds of people, so some of its applicability to home setups is questionable. DrDork fucked around with this message at 14:23 on Apr 27, 2020 |
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Apr 27, 2020 14:19
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Hey all, figured this belonged here since this is the undercover SA Homelab thread. I'm at a crossroads with a decision and wanted to get folks input here on whether I should spend more money and go the easy route (Option 1) or see if I can bend my UnRaid server to do something neat without too much complexity (Option 2). We are looking to get my 8 year old twins some computers now that we are definitely going to be doing school from home (but not homeschooling!), Google Classroom/Meet calls, Google docs, etc. for quite a while. Even as this shifts my wife and I really believe that we'll be back at home in the Fall. On top of that, they're getting old enough that they are feeling the limitations of Minecraft on the iPad as my older son in Middle school plays on servers, uses mods, etc. So we want to get them a computer capable of playing Minecraft. Here's the options as I see it, greatly appreciate any input on either and checking on whether my thoughts are on track: Option 1: Buy or build the full computer set up, I have hardly researched this but think I could get this done properly somewhere between $450-750 for each. If I go down this route I'll take the discussion to the appropriate BYO computer / hardware threads as it wouldn't touch the Homelab component at all Option 2: I have recently picked up a T7810 (with specs below) that is running UnRaid. It is my understanding that I can build a few Windows VMs with GPUs passed through (need to make sure I can split the 8-pin connector to support two video cards) that a very limited computer could be used to access and play Minecraft at a higher capability. They could use the local environment of whatever physical hardware they are running for their schooling, word processing, etc. and then remote into the server to game. Unless the spare GPUs I have lying around are good enough and able to work, I would purchase new GPUs to work. Questions: 1. Is this a sustainable plan or after getting it working will there be a high probability of janitoring / troubleshooting issues with the VM that prohibit them from playing, etc. 2. My understanding is that all of this can be accomplsihed with no direct connection to the UnRaid server itself and purely over the network. My concern is that many YouTube videos I've seen where this was done successful with the GPU passing through to the VM they were also directly connected to the servers GPU display ports 3. What software is used to connect so that graphics and audio is passed through. SpaceInvader recommends Splashtop but so far I haven't been able to get that set up enough without any audio delays and other issues. I also have not successfully set up a GPU passthrough yet and still experimenting, so could be a factor 4. On the hardware side, I think as long as I use something basic with Windows should be sufficient. I'd consider raspberry pis but I think there may be some issues getting proper performance from the GPU remotely, however I could be wrong. Also may not be able to run all of what's needed for their schooling. Looking for any counter arguments to this, I could slap something pretty cheaply together as a WYSIWYG interface 5. As they'd all be in the same room I would want them having headsets on to reduce noise and interference when they're all on the same call, can a USB headset be passed through properly so sound/microphone works seamlessly? Server Specs: Intel® Xeon® CPU E5-2643 v3 @ 3.40GHz 64GB RAM GPU1: Nvidia Quadro K4200 GPU2: GeForce 760 2GB (not installed, pulled from an older gaming machine that could also be adapted if option 1 is selected) So the bottom line decision I'm trying to make is if Option 2 is worth the squeeze. Would save some cash, utilize the server for some fun and clever uses, and reduce hardware foot prints throughout the home. But, if it's building a headache for myself and could put in roadblocks for my kids, I'm not sure I'm willing to tolerate that. Thanks! TraderStav fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Apr 27, 2020 |
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Apr 27, 2020 16:30
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TraderStav posted:So the bottom line decision I'm trying to make is if Option 2 is worth the squeeze. Would save some cash, utilize the server for some fun and clever uses, and reduce hardware foot prints throughout the home. But, if it's building a headache for myself and could put in roadblocks for my kids, I'm not sure I'm willing to tolerate that. If you're thinking of basically having them RDP from their existing...not sure what, if they don't have computers already...into the server to be able to access a Windows VM and then play games on that, with the video piped back over the network, I will say that you're asking for a whole lot of headache and performance is probably going to be poor. If you were trying to go for a multi-user gaming machine, your best option would be making a "gaming station" with two sets of monitors/keyboard/mice to directly attach to the server. If you just mean run a Minecraft server inside a VM, yeah, sure, that works fine and is a well supported option. I think you're overestimating what a basic PC costs. You could absolutely get a used Dell/HP/Lenovo workstation/business PC from eBay or various "off-lease" outlets for <$300 and throw a $50 GPU in there that would crush Minecraft.
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Apr 27, 2020 17:02
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DrDork posted:If you're thinking of basically having them RDP from their existing...not sure what, if they don't have computers already...into the server to be able to access a Windows VM and then play games on that, with the video piped back over the network, I will say that you're asking for a whole lot of headache and performance is probably going to be poor. If you were trying to go for a multi-user gaming machine, your best option would be making a "gaming station" with two sets of monitors/keyboard/mice to directly attach to the server. If you just mean run a Minecraft server inside a VM, yeah, sure, that works fine and is a well supported option. Thanks for the input. I was not considering either a multi-user machine or something to host Minecraft servers. I may have been romanticizing a 'roll-your-own Stadia' utilization of my server a bit, but that was the direction I was thinking and exploring. I really like the idea of a multi-user gaming machine that sits between them, I didn't know those really existed so will have to explore that also. I agree that it is much simpler to just give them the proper metal and move on, I wanted to explore the VM option as it 'feels' like it should be simple, but I am going to bet it sure ain't. My estimate of $450 is to get all-in, a monitor, USB headset, keyboard, mouse, webcam, etc. I'm always happy to high ball and then budget shop like crazy also. The aforementioned old gaming PC could be leveraged for the multi-user gaming machine, if not for one of them. It's from 2014 and without upgrades it'll probably fit the bill for one of them. i5-4570 3.2ghz, 8GB RAM, 128GB SSD, GTX 760 2GB Thanks, this is very helpful! Appreciate others input as well.
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Apr 27, 2020 17:08
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D. Ebdrup posted:Well, no - this is just incorrect. There's zfsd, the daemon that handles automatic hot-spare swapping - which needs to use disks without partitions (but can be rewritten to support partitions too, now that OpenZFS has been unified). ZFS itself doesn't care. This is directly contrary to the advice I received years ago when first getting into ZFS! I'm not doubting you, though.
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Apr 27, 2020 17:33
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TraderStav posted:Thanks for the input. I was not considering either a multi-user machine or something to host Minecraft servers. I may have been romanticizing a 'roll-your-own Stadia' utilization of my server a bit, but that was the direction I was thinking and exploring. A multi-user gaming machine doesn't "exist" in terms of something you can buy yourself, but they're pretty easy to make: you'd do more or less what you were already thinking with your server and spin up a pair of Win10 VMs with a GPU passed through to each. That's...about the entirety of the setup, honestly. I don't know the ins and out of Win10 VMs on Unraid, but there seems to be a lot of support out there for it, and some other people in this thread could probably chime in. If you're thinking of throwing it on a different machine like that old gaming one, you can get ESXi for home use for free and it'll do what you need for a hypervisor with pass-through support. If you really did want a remote gaming solution, one option to consider would be Steam in-home streaming, either to a Shield or to a local system (PCs generally work natively, check out Moonlight if you want to put it elsewhere). I'd think you'd have to stand up two Win10 VMs on the server, since Steam won't let you run multiple games at once IIRC, and I'm not sure how well it would work if you're trying to use the Java version rather than the Windows version (I've been out of the Minecraft scene a long time), but I'm sure you could research whether it's worth the effort or not. Gotcha. Yeah, $450 all-in is probably a reasonable target for a low-powered but capable machine. Craigslist is also often a good source of old monitors and such that aren't going to impress anyone, but a 1080p old Dell for $30 is still gonna be fine for kid's use.
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Apr 27, 2020 17:48
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Thermopyle posted:This is directly contrary to the advice I received years ago when first getting into ZFS!
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Apr 27, 2020 18:02
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TraderStav posted:Hey all, figured this belonged here since this is the undercover SA Homelab thread. I have kids and had similar goals when I started my Unraid build about 6 months ago. I have had multiple VMs outputting to multiple monitors, so that part is definitely doable. It does get to be a bit of a pain in the neck if you change which USB peripherals are plugged into because you will have go to back to edit the XML files to get them working again. For getting onto the Minecraft server I have found that my 5+ year old Macs work fine and newer Chromebooks with an m3 or better work adequately for the graphics. That is with the local linux Minecraft Java client. For remote connection to the VMs I have Chrome Remote Desktop running which is very convenient and works ok for computer janitoring from work, but wouldn't be good enough for gaming most likely. Haven't tried Splashtop. I can tell you that USB audio devices have worked fine for me.
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Apr 27, 2020 19:13
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Getting ready to purchase 8x 8TB drives. Looks like I should be OK with Reds since those are CMR, but now I'm wondering if I should consider the Seagate ST8000VN004 instead.
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Apr 27, 2020 21:05
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The big reason not to use the WD drives in their USB enclosures is because they automatically sleep, killing the drive's life. The WD software supposed to disable this behavior doesn't work. Shuck em.
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Apr 27, 2020 23:17
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A drive failed in my nas so I swapped it out and rebuilt the array. Things are all good now. Should I do anything to the old drive before I throw it out? I think the data on it is effectively useless since it was just one of four disks in raid5? Edit: by failed I meant the drive reported several bad sectors but the drive wasn’t fully dead before I swapped it out.
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Apr 27, 2020 23:57
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dutchbstrd posted:A drive failed in my nas so I swapped it out and rebuilt the array. Things are all good now. Should I do anything to the old drive before I throw it out? I think the data on it is effectively useless since it was just one of four disks in raid5? I'd at least write over it completely with zeroes or something before recycling it.
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Apr 28, 2020 00:08
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I always rip mine apart to get the magnets out of them because, hey, strong as gently caress magnets. Also pretty much guarantees nobody is going to read anything off of them.
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Apr 28, 2020 00:12
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IOwnCalculus posted:I always rip mine apart to get the magnets out of them because, hey, strong as gently caress magnets. Also pretty much guarantees nobody is going to read anything off of them. Well if you're going to do that then you may as well turn the platters into coasters too
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Apr 28, 2020 00:13
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fletcher posted:Getting ready to purchase 8x 8TB drives. Looks like I should be OK with Reds since those are CMR, but now I'm wondering if I should consider the Seagate ST8000VN004 instead. I can't fathom a single reason why I'd willingly choose seagate over WD unless it was the only competing option against shingled poo poo disks the failure rates are still well notably higher
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Apr 28, 2020 01:49
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VostokProgram posted:I'd at least write over it completely with zeroes or something before recycling it. I just drive a nail through it. Way faster and easier.
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Apr 28, 2020 02:53
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an adversary with unlimited funding could easily reconstruct 90% of the data with that inferior destruction method
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Apr 28, 2020 02:56
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Or you know just rip the board off with the back of a claw hammer / hit it with one.
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Apr 28, 2020 03:02
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Replacing a failed and/or claw-hammered PCB with another one from the same model of drive is about the only cheap data recovery option. Zero-wipe or nail through the platters is good enough though, you'd have to have governments after you for anyone to try to recover from that.
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Apr 28, 2020 03:06
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Isn't there firmware in the chips that's somehow unique to each drive set at the factory? I watched a Linus Tech Tips about a data recovery service. I think they had to reconstruct that data too. There's a place near me that will shred them free for home users.
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Apr 28, 2020 03:15
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Back in the day at least, it used to be possible to swap the controllers if yours died. I wouldn't be worried about the nail actually being enough. I still like to take them apart for the magnets and mu-metal though.
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Apr 28, 2020 03:17
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taqueso posted:an adversary with unlimited funding could easily reconstruct 90% of the data with that inferior destruction method If they want my pirated VR porn that much, I'll just buy them a subscription. But really, any method of data wiping or physical destruction at all is more than sufficient for a home user who isn't being directly and personally targeted by foreign intelligence services. Joe Scavenger isn't going to put forth even a moment's worth of effort to swap a board or anything--if it doesn't pop up with data the first time he connects it to a rig, it's going right back in the trash.
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Apr 28, 2020 03:25
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