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LostRook posted:Or perhaps I understood that and was talking about perceptions? That chuds would love that, and people being angry with it would be justified? the regular chuds would just be mad a trans person existed in the game, the terfs would jump all over it yeah. and people being angry at it would be justified yes. yeah really gross regressive people make gross jokes about anyone who doesnt meet their exacting standards for what a man/woman should be (and nb but for regressives it boils down to the former cos they just delete that possibility in their brain). they would if it was the same character just standing there doing literally nothing. Stux fucked around with this message at 07:45 on Apr 28, 2020 |
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Apr 28, 2020 07:42
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It would be pretty sad/hilarious if Naughty Dog managed to design a character that made literally every segment of their audience unhappy for different reasons
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Apr 28, 2020 07:43
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Stux posted:the regular chuds would just be mad a trans person existed in the game, the terfs would jump all over it yeah. and people being angry at it would be justified yes. Call me crazy, but standing there doing nothing would be a huge improvement over a team of gender non-conforming characters that act like complete monsters.
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Apr 28, 2020 07:49
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Maybe five or ten years from now you'll be able to show a woman lifting a heavy object in fiction without generating pages upon pages of discussion on whether it's feasible or sufficiently established that a woman is strong enough to lift a heavy object.
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Apr 28, 2020 07:49
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:It would be pretty sad/hilarious if Naughty Dog managed to design a character that made literally every segment of their audience unhappy for different reasons Through hatred, unity. I guess.
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Apr 28, 2020 07:49
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Spermando posted:Maybe five or ten years from now you'll be able to show a woman lifting a heavy object in fiction without generating pages upon pages of discussion on whether it's feasible or sufficiently established that a woman is strong enough to lift a heavy object. no one said that
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Apr 28, 2020 07:51
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LostRook posted:Call me crazy, but standing there doing nothing would be a huge improvement over a team of gender non-conforming characters that act like complete monsters. who is gender non-conforming? the model for the character is colleen fotch who is, as far as i know, a cis woman edit: i dont like my own tone or wording but i dont think i should remove it to hide me messing up. i shouldnt be arguing, i got annoyed by other people, not you, losing it just because of a woman having muscles sorry Stux fucked around with this message at 08:04 on Apr 28, 2020 |
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Apr 28, 2020 07:56
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It happened with Uncharted 4 and it's happening with TLOU2 in every forum. I really don't care that much about feminism or the portrayal of women, but it's got to a point where you can't show a strong woman in a power fantasy without people suddenly caring about whether a woman IRL could beat up a man or get strong.
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Apr 28, 2020 07:56
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:It would be pretty sad/hilarious if Naughty Dog managed to design a character that made literally every segment of their audience unhappy for different reasons "Good job team, you've created a character that nobody likes. Exactly what a playable character/protagonist should be!"
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Apr 28, 2020 08:00
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Lurdiak posted:Why does this spoiler thread have a spoiler tag rule. Who is reading up on the Last of Us 2 leaks hoping not to get spoiled. Some people might be more interested in the circumstances around the leaks than the leaks themselves? I got some major plot points spoiled already but I don’t feel like reading up more or discussing them without fully knowing the game’s context. tithin posted:But what's this about them not being paid? Like with most large studios a big part of their bonuses might be tied to metacritic scores on release. That in itself is a hosed up industry practice but ND delaying the game indefinitely put an additional financial strain on their employees in an already difficult time. Sassy Sasquatch fucked around with this message at 08:05 on Apr 28, 2020 |
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Apr 28, 2020 08:02
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even if you walked back any of these plot points you'd soon realise how bad writing it is within context i enjoy a polished turd from time to time, but they're self aware and unfortunately this one isn't i haven't even played tlou1 since i found uncharted became increasingly unsatisfying but i'm mostly mad that i'm not getting paid mega bux to make dogshit like this
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Apr 28, 2020 09:51
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Stux posted:woman having muscles
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Apr 28, 2020 09:52
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uncharted loving sucks, the entire saga what a waste of money
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Apr 28, 2020 09:59
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Honestly, if Naughty Dog could make a really well written villain who is trans, I'm all up for it. Not that a villain should be trans as an "evil trait" to make them despicable, mind. Trans people in video games portrayed as solely virtuous and tempered by their suffering, but inoffensively written and straightforward in their narrative, rings as a truthism about a decaffeinated Other. Much like all poor people possessing humble nobleness due to their poverty, or native peoples naturally having a deep connection to the spiritual due to their "nativeness". It's pretty damning that even very thinly written trans characters get gamers up in arms, though.
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Apr 28, 2020 10:03
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If a character doesnt have anything more going on for it than being a minority its a bad character. People are more than being poor, black or gay. Just write good stories and you should be ok. Gamers are idiots. Zeta Acosta fucked around with this message at 10:12 on Apr 28, 2020 |
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Apr 28, 2020 10:09
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End of Shoelace posted:Honestly, if Naughty Dog could make a really well written villain who is trans, I'm all up for it. is this what they call gas lighting???
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Apr 28, 2020 10:11
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lurker2006 posted:Ellie has muscles, Abby is blatantly on gear. Without context it just strikes me as a pretty incongruous character design. Is Abby big I hadn't noticed. I mean she isn't big compared to another leak woman.
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Apr 28, 2020 10:15
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Zeta Acosta posted:If a character doesnt have anything more going on for it than being a minority its a bad character. This is unfortunately a trend with video game trans characters. The Dragon Age series and Mass Effect: Andromeda are big culprits of it. Maybe we are in the phase where the very simplest superficial narrative about transsexualism is deemed as enough.
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Apr 28, 2020 10:23
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Abby looks like Brock Lesnar vs Ellie or Dina. So it's hard to possibly feel like she's the victim when she caves Joel's head in with a golfclub, breaks Ellie's arm and starts literally hammering Dina's face into the ground until it's essentially caved in, not to mention her sheer glee at the idea of getting a double-kill by cutting Dina's throat and also killing her unborn child. What a hero.
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Apr 28, 2020 10:33
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Onmi posted:Abby looks like Brock Lesnar vs Ellie or Dina. So it's hard to possibly feel like she's the victim when she caves Joel's head in with a golfclub, breaks Ellie's arm and starts literally hammering Dina's face into the ground until it's essentially caved in, not to mention her sheer glee at the idea of getting a double-kill by cutting Dina's throat and also killing her unborn child. violent revenge isn't pretty I guess?
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Apr 28, 2020 11:07
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Honestly the vast majority of this doesn't sound inaccurate for a LToU sequel in terms of themes and ideas. "The consequences of Joel's murder spree come back to roost" feels entirely reasonable, as does him meeting a depressing violent and meaningless death. It basically recasts Joel as one of the bandits and... that is what Joel was, he even admits it. He's just a bandit we get to follow and empathize with and see him grow attached to a child. Joel kind of was destined for a horrible violent death because of the kind of person he is and I sort of prefer "is killed like any other random enemy" in terms of TLOU's themes. A game about following the consequences of what your morally grey protagonist did in a previous game could be pretty effective if done well. Where it sounds like they're making a mistake is splitting the protagonists. If you're going to do this you really need to do it wholeheartedly and stick with the new character for the entire game. You have to build empathy before, not after. I don't even necessarily think the level of violence is inappropriate considering a lot of what happened in TLOU1, a good chunk of which people ended up cheering for or empathizing with. But if you don't build that empathy it is going to bounce hard. People tend to not like bait and switch protagonist situations and killing the protagonist of previous games so it'll be something to see what people think of this one. It's also nice that apparently they don't murder the lesbian couple so uh... I guess that beat my expectations there. I do think the problem is that this boils down to "TLOU had a bittersweet ending and anything revisiting that ending is inherently going to be darker and more depressing because it sure isn't getting happier" and I'm pretty sure a lot of people right now are not particularly eager for a more depressing and edgy TLOU. God knows I'm not. I wasn't even particularly hyped at the idea of a TLOU2 period and pretty much for exactly this reason, especially once they made it clear it was revisiting the setting.
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Apr 28, 2020 11:07
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am0kgonzo posted:violent revenge isn't pretty I guess? Yeah, I feel like you could get this point across without being torture porn. Like, congrats Naughty Dog, your violent revenge story is worse than Nier, a game with a loving minuscule budget in comparison.
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Apr 28, 2020 11:14
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End of Shoelace posted:Honestly, if Naughty Dog could make a really well written villain who is trans, I'm all up for it. There is absolutely no way that Abbey is trans. They couldn't possibly be tone deaf enough to make a muscular trans woman the villain who violently beats the fans' beloved lesbian characters. That's literally a terf propaganda point, the sort of thing that someone on reddit would gleefully make up as proof of how evil gender noncomforming people are. It's like a modern company making a game where the villain is an evil gay man who kidnaps little boys to turn them gay. I refuse to believe that it could have gotten through all the layers of development without someone raising a flag about that.
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Apr 28, 2020 11:35
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ImpAtom posted:Honestly the vast majority of this doesn't sound inaccurate for a LToU sequel in terms of themes and ideas. The other big problem is that Ellie and Dina are completely innocent and undeserving of Abby's wrath. It makes sense for her to kill Joel but you don't play as Abby until after she kills Joel, so at that point she already has an uphill battle in making players give a poo poo about her. Then she spends the rest of the game going after a girl who literally had no choice in the matter with what the Fireflies were going to do and what Joel did in retaliation and her pregnant lover who literally has done nothing to harm Abby. Abby even going "good" at being told that Dina is pregnant before attempting to slit her throat just throws any sympathy and investment for the new character out of the window.
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Apr 28, 2020 12:09
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I'm one of those people who aren't really interested in game storylines, but seeing all this backlash is a lot of fun. The first game had great gameplay and mechanics / environments, so once I get round to playing the new one, I'm expecting it to be more of that, but with better graphics. I can understand fandoms etc. being upset though, and this sucks for them  .
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Apr 28, 2020 12:10
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Obvious Spoiler in the Video I guess this is the final confrontation between abby and Ellie/Dinah in German https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FcMcp-_-WI
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Apr 28, 2020 12:34
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JBP posted:I mean she isn't big compared to another leak woman. this is not the place to post about your fetish
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Apr 28, 2020 12:54
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this sounds like a waste of 7 years tbh
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Apr 28, 2020 12:58
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quote:turning a big dial taht says "Torturing Lesbians" on it and constantly looking back at the audience for approval like a contestant on the price is right
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Apr 28, 2020 13:00
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doingitwrong posted:turning a big dial taht says "Torturing Lesbians" on it and constantly looking back at the audience for approval like a contestant on the price is right lol
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Apr 28, 2020 13:00
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gh0stpinballa posted:this sounds like a waste of 7 years tbh I love that... Pat on the Castle Superbeast podcast pointed out, there's nothing they can do to change this, not only is the PS5 just around the corner, they've killed the company on this game, there has been so much blood, so much sweat, you can't amass the force to make this game again and toss everything out. Like... it's you cancel the game or you bury your head and hope the press protects you.
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Apr 28, 2020 13:05
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ImpAtom posted:Honestly the vast majority of this doesn't sound inaccurate for a LToU sequel in terms of themes and ideas. TLOU2 didn't have to be a more depressing game than the first. TLOU2 didn't have to be about Ellie and Joel. It didn't have to be about anything related to the first game at all in fact, and regardless of commercial incentives, it didn't even have to be made. There's no determinism here. Naughty Dog could have made their sequel about literally anything, and this is the one story they chose to tell. So I think it's right for people to question the ethos of its creators instead of asking "well what did you expect," because this result is only one of many possibilities that also include there not being a TLOU2.
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Apr 28, 2020 13:07
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Yeah they could have just made the game about a firefly or some poo poo for a new perspective and leave the old characters out of it. Idk even have Joel get dead when you fight him in a boss battle or whatever since he's a pretty wild rear end in a top hat all up and then call it a day.
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Apr 28, 2020 13:09
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Onmi posted:I love that... Pat on the Castle Superbeast podcast pointed out, there's nothing they can do to change this, not only is the PS5 just around the corner, they've killed the company on this game, there has been so much blood, so much sweat, you can't amass the force to make this game again and toss everything out. Like... it's you cancel the game or you bury your head and hope the press protects you. lol the game is going to get 90+ ratings and sell really well
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Apr 28, 2020 13:11
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henpod posted:The first game had great gameplay and mechanics / environments 
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Apr 28, 2020 13:26
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for such a hack fraud game that riffs off every other season of walking dead they coulda gone fear the walking dead route personally i can't wait for sony to go oh gently caress oh poo poo and pull in kojima to recut this like it's blade runner
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Apr 28, 2020 13:36
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Booty Pageant posted:for such a hack fraud game that riffs off every other season of walking dead they coulda gone fear the walking dead route It's certainly be a day one for me.
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Apr 28, 2020 13:40
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It's the same game but he's added lens flare to everything and Joel can't stop farting.
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Apr 28, 2020 13:40
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Abby
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Apr 28, 2020 13:41
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queue epic monologue with flashbacks on why abby is trans, turns out she did it to conceal her true identity of a tragic backstory that even joel feels sorry for, and after a huge boss fight they hug it out and kiss
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Apr 28, 2020 13:46
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