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Zore posted:Hey, Melee doing damage with absurd multipliers is like the single thing they actually have over casters. Yeah the issue is that melee is really good at doing damage in combat and casters are really good at just pre-empting combat from happening at all. Which comes down to the general point that combat is somehow the most fleshed out and most boring part of D&D. The only times I've enjoyed it were times the group was trying to end the combat without having to kill whoever/whatever we were fighting.
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Apr 27, 2020 17:58
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When I started reading this, they still hadn't beaten Xykon the first time. I can think of important moments of my life and remember which strip was "current" back then. I'm going to miss it when it's over.
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Apr 27, 2020 18:01
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mandatory lesbian posted:I only started reading oots bc of his 8 bit theater guest strip so like, however long ago that was Relive the past with the wonderful guest comic, ©2004 https://www.giantitp.com/comics/GuestStrips.html
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Apr 27, 2020 21:20
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I'm happy for these gay pirates.
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Apr 27, 2020 23:21
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Absurd Alhazred posted:I'm aware of how things changed beyond 1st edition. "They" in this case meant "Gygax and the editors who let that through, potentially at least one other person than Gygax". No. I know what book/scene you're referring to and that isn't what happened. Drizzt spend a few books swearing that he'd never kill another Drow, because of the events of his youth and his formative years of the evils of society he was born into pitting drow to mercilessly murder other drow on the whims of those who held power in that society. Drizzt get a revelation at some point during the early Companions of the Hall books when Drow from his home town come for him and he's forced to kill them in self-defence, at first he's horrified but then he realizes that declaring that it was unacceptable for him to kill drow, but murdering any other race is fine was hypocritical and abhorrent of him, explicit calling out his past actions/motivations as racist; and that if he truly wants to do good in the world and protect those dear to him he can't put his people on some special pedastle and make exceptions for them; if he's going to kill people to protect people then he needs to be willing to kill anyone Drow or not-Drow. To put it metaphorically, it's like a blue collar worker who turns socialist revolutionary because of capitalism, declares he'll never let the capitalist classes pit him against any other worker ever again; and in so doing so gives strasserites and nazi's a pass because they're also working class like him. Only to realize this was dumb. e: Ponsonby Britt posted:So a medieval story about Sir Percival and the Knights of the Grail is reinterpreted as an anti-Semitic opera, and then that's part of the cultural milieu that people like Tolkien or Gygax imbibed, and suddenly dwarves' main attribute is "greedy for gold" and their language is based on Hebrew. Eh, in regards to Tolkien I don't think this is fair: "greedy for gold" wasn't exactly what Tolkien from what I understand from his letters was going for. He based the Dwarf language on Hebrew because he liked Hebrew as a language and thought it was cool, and in particular subscribed to the "ancient Israelites/maccabees(?) were bad rear end warriors" and based the dwarves moreso on the perceived warrior-like nature of the peoples of ancient Israel. Almost every time in the actual works where the Dwarves go a little stir crazy over shiny things is because either they were supernaturally influenced (the Arkenstone which was probably one of the Silmilirils), the 7 rings; or their honour was deeply insulted and some of their most prized possessions got stolen from them and they went to get it back. Almost every example of Dwarves being "greedy" in Tolkiens works is generally outnumbered or far outclassed by examples of Elves or Humans being greedy to far greater tragedy and destruction: (The Oath of Faenor, the Kinslayings, the fall of Numenor, etc). When the Nazi's tried to contact Tolkien to get his endorsement he told them to gently caress off. Raenir Salazar fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Apr 27, 2020 |
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Apr 27, 2020 23:22
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Raenir Salazar posted:No. I know what book/scene you're referring to and that isn't what happened. Drizzt spend a few books swearing that he'd never kill another Drow, because of the events of his youth and his formative years of the evils of society he was born into pitting drow to mercilessly murder other drow on the whims of those who held power in that society. That's great for people who bothered reading that far, but how many people who read the Dark Elf Trilogy did?
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Apr 28, 2020 00:38
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Absurd Alhazred posted:That's great for people who bothered reading that far, but how many people who read the Dark Elf Trilogy did? How other people erroneously interpret or misremember fiction is not the responsibility of the author, it isn't on RA Salvatore if someone comes away from the events of those books with the complete opposite impression of the intended meaning of the scene. From your post it wasn't clear to me if you were only referring to some other hypothetical person misinterpreting the books incorrectly; but insofar as I interpreted your post to be saying something that didn't happen I was merely correcting that inaccuracy. Also, considering that RA Salvatore consistently uses his fiction as social commentary and tried to use to varying degrees of subtlety, to use his fiction to address real world issues and inequalities, its a little off base to use the Drizzt novels as a "bad example" when if anything these are the novels that try the hardest to buck the usual problematic aspects of tabletop rpgs.
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Apr 28, 2020 01:07
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Raenir Salazar posted:How other people erroneously interpret or misremember fiction is not the responsibility of the author, it isn't on RA Salvatore if someone comes away from the events of those books with the complete opposite impression of the intended meaning of the scene. If you had read only the Dark Elf Trilogy, which was one of the more famous self-contained portions of everything to do with that dark elf who is a credit to his race and has two swords and also a magical companion animal, you would either come to see him as a highly self-unexamined racist, or you yourself would be a self-unexamined racist. The fact that he "corrects" this in future books doesn't override this entirely valid criticism of his older work. It's not something that "didn't happen", he revels in being racist towards goblins or orcs or whatever evil race it was at the end of Sojourn, which I didn't really notice as a child but did stand out when I re-read it as an adult.
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Apr 28, 2020 01:46
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Absurd Alhazred posted:If you had read only the Dark Elf Trilogy, which was one of the more famous self-contained portions of everything to do with that dark elf who is a credit to his race and has two swords and also a magical companion animal, you would either come to see him as a highly self-unexamined racist, or you yourself would be a self-unexamined racist. The fact that he "corrects" this in future books doesn't override this entirely valid criticism of his older work. It's not something that "didn't happen", he revels in being racist towards goblins or orcs or whatever evil race it was at the end of Sojourn, which I didn't really notice as a child but did stand out when I re-read it as an adult. Again, at literally zero point does Drizzt ever have some kind of revelation or ever comes to accept that, "Some races are always evil", period. Doesn't matter what book you've read out of order. I feel like you're changing the goalposts here, because what you're claiming here is a little bit different to what you originally claimed. Now that I think about it more and read back the plot synopsis to refresh my memory I'm pretty sure the, realization of his "It's wrong for ape to kill ape" mentality was wrong and racist happens in book 2 of the Dark Elf trilogy, so your point is wrong even in the context of the original Dark Elf trilogy. Which again to point out, the scene in question is written specifically to call itself out, and is literally the point and contextualization of the scene. This isn't RA Salvatore writing something bad and then addressing it later; he specifically wrote it that way to reach that conclusion specifically. Also your claim further makes no sense because why would someone realistically read the Dark Elf trilogy *first* without knowledge of the other book or knowledge that these events are merely a prequel to later events? The Crystal Shard was the first book written in 1988. Homeland was 1990. You do know these were a prequel trilogy written after the fact right? Additionally: "he revels in being racist towards goblins or orcs or whatever evil race it was at the end of Sojourn", I feel like this undermines your point and reinforces my point that you're being irresponsible by going at this like this based off of half-remembered knowledge of events if you don't really remember the details or context to what happened. At this point it makes more sense to me to assume you're misinterpreting Drizzt's "Hunter" persona, wherein he enters his Barbarian rage mode. Drizzt doesn't really "revel" in killing people, he isn't exactly a pacifist but he isn't a blood knight either. He does occasionally have weak moments because he's a young and emotionally immature elf kid living a tough life as a child-soldier and has emotional outbursts; but these are always contextualized as awful moments that he more or less immediately regrets.
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Apr 28, 2020 02:30
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Yes, but what alignment is RA Salvatore?
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Apr 28, 2020 03:26
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Chaotic Profitable.
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Apr 28, 2020 03:27
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Raenir Salazar posted:Again, at literally zero point does Drizzt ever have some kind of revelation or ever comes to accept that, "Some races are always evil", period. Doesn't matter what book you've read out of order. I feel like you're changing the goalposts here, because what you're claiming here is a little bit different to what you originally claimed. I'm sorry, but you're absolutely wrong. Unfortunately I don't have Sojourn here, or I would look it up, and I'm not having a good time figuring out the right terms to look for on Google Books, although I got these pretty telling instances:  
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Apr 28, 2020 03:45
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oh god make it stop
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Apr 28, 2020 03:54
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What alignment do you think the gay pirates are?
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Apr 28, 2020 04:13
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I preferred the other kind of Goblins chat in this thread.
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Apr 28, 2020 04:16
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ultrafilter posted:What alignment do you think the gay pirates are? true good
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Apr 28, 2020 04:17
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ultrafilter posted:What alignment do you think the gay pirates are? Cool and good
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Apr 28, 2020 04:19
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Absurd Alhazred posted:I'm sorry, but you're absolutely wrong. Unfortunately I don't have Sojourn here, or I would look it up, and I'm not having a good time figuring out the right terms to look for on Google Books, although I got these pretty telling instances: It's a pretty ridiculous hyperbole to claim I'm absolutely wrong and then to support it with fairly weak evidence to support your claims, and not addressing that you've been subtly changing your argument between posts to cast a wider net just to try to find something to be right about. Neither of these out of context pages support your point. You went from "Drizzt accepted that some races are just evil" to posting a page where Drizzt concludes: "Evil (individual) creatures... Exist?" and you went from iirc claiming that Drizzt is racist against goblins to providing evidence where it actually turns out it wasn't Drizzt it's some completely other character, written from said character's point of view which obviously isn't reflective of the author at all. What is this supposed to prove, what actually is the point you are trying to get at? If you just want to say, some aspects of D&D or related D&D tie in novels have problematic elements, no argument there. But the devil is in the details and singling out the Drizzt books, is just really off base and incredulous. Raenir Salazar fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Apr 28, 2020 |
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Apr 28, 2020 04:27
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ultrafilter posted:What alignment do you think the gay pirates are? Do you mean gay as in happy? They don't look same sex, as far as stick figures go...
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Apr 28, 2020 04:31
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PMush Perfect posted:oh god make it stop
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Apr 28, 2020 04:35
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So is Drizzt Do'Urden cancelled or not. First person to answer this is officially correct, mod's orders.
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Apr 28, 2020 05:29
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Cancelled
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Apr 28, 2020 05:31
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Phew glad we sorted that out
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Apr 28, 2020 05:35
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If you can sing, does that make you non-evil?
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Apr 28, 2020 05:58
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Potsticker posted:Cancelled Ooh, I fuckin' hate that guy now!
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Apr 28, 2020 05:59
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D -Deflects incoming attacks with a swipe. R - Read about him in a book. I - Interesting/dapper fighting style. Z - Zazzy pivots and dodges. Z - Zero tolerance for bugbears. T - Twin Scimitars cut swathes through the night. D - Dangerous lava caves. O - Ovations he receives for his heroic deeds. U - Utilizes sommersaults to block attacks. R - Ricochet with a bow or arrow. D - Destruct all goblins but not for racism. E - Enigma of few words. N- Never stops helping friends and peasants.
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Apr 28, 2020 06:09
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goblin week posted:D -Deflects incoming attacks with a swipe. Hmm, ok... I'm starting to come back around... he sounds magnificent...
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Apr 28, 2020 06:42
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Nenonen posted:Do you mean gay as in happy? They don't look same sex, as far as stick figures go... I had to double-check myself, wondering if I'd just defaulted to assuming they were a hetero couple, but I agree: Peg Leg reads as male and Hook Hand as female, to me.
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Apr 28, 2020 08:00
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Bizarre, for some reason they both showed up in my memory as having stubble but now I look that's totally not the case.
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Apr 28, 2020 08:10
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Rich generally uses a square bottom to the torso (like Roy) for male and a round one (Like Haley) for female.
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Apr 28, 2020 08:33
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ultrafilter posted:What alignment do you think the gay pirates are? Romantic Horny
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Apr 28, 2020 09:16
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I read initially as gay but ultimately just kinda decided it didn't matter - Hook is curvier as far as stick figure phrenology goes but also took Peg into their arms. Joke works either way, have at it whatever orientation you are stick figure pirate people.
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Apr 28, 2020 10:42
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Raenir Salazar posted:
Er, me. I did that. I was in high school staying over at a friend's place and I saw it on his bookshelf. I read the first couple chapters and asked if I could borrow it. Don't think I realised it was a prequel until after I read it. No relevance to the debate at all, I know, but I had to mention that >.>
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Apr 28, 2020 11:10
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NameHurtBrain posted:I read initially as gay but ultimately just kinda decided it didn't matter - Hook is curvier as far as stick figure phrenology goes but also took Peg into their arms. Joke works either way, have at it whatever orientation you are stick figure pirate people. I think since Hook is wearing a coat with women's buttoning, it means that Rich drew her as a woman. On the other hand we can't rule out that Peg is a lesbian with chocolate smeared on her face.
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Apr 28, 2020 11:43
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Whybird posted:Bizarre, for some reason they both showed up in my memory as having stubble but now I look that's totally not the case. I'm glad it wasn't just me.
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Apr 28, 2020 12:00
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Peg is a he/him lesbian
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Apr 28, 2020 12:05
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They have symmetrical eyepatches so they can still look each other in the eye  i can't remember what's the 'aww' smilie, that will have to do
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Apr 28, 2020 12:06
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PMush Perfect posted:Yes, but what alignment is RA Salvatore? Rawful Avil
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Apr 28, 2020 13:13
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Noonsaliwah posted:Relive the past with the wonderful guest comic, ©2004 Yeah, getting into 8-bit theater in middle school sounds right
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Apr 28, 2020 14:02
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Nenonen posted:I think since Hook is wearing a coat with women's buttoning, it means that Rich drew her as a woman. On the other hand we can't rule out that Peg is a lesbian with chocolate smeared on her face. Kinda makes you wonder why they have hook hands in a world with Regeneration spells. Maybe they're poor pirates who can't afford it. Or their pirate health care doesn't cover it. Or something.
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Apr 28, 2020 17:31
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