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ultrafilter posted:It's not at all common but I have seen unlimited PTO with a minimum usage policy before. That's a good sign. Yeah, this is what I'd sign up for assuming the minimum is something like 30 days
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Apr 28, 2020 01:33
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I haven’t proven this yet, but I think the reason for lower PTO usage at companies with unlimited PTO is because many people just never use all their PTO even when they earn it. A lot of employees carry over PTO from year to year, and it’s not because they have a giant, dream vacation planned, they just don’t think of it. They don’t worry about it until they hit the “use it or lose it” cap. When you give those people unlimited PTO, they just use their normal yearly amount, which is low.
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Apr 28, 2020 01:40
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Unlimited PTO sounds good when you're in a country like mine with a legal minimum of 4 weeks paid which will accrue and rollover regardless, then it could actually be considered a perk because anything over that would be at manager discretion. But if its in some hell with no job protection or min holidays it sounds like a huge loving scam.
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Apr 28, 2020 01:59
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I'm at the point now where if a company told me it had unlimited PTO, I would want it written in the hiring contract that I would be required to take a minimum of 30 days per year, or something along those lines at least. Actually possibly more, since 4 weeks' vacation + 2 weeks sick leave per year (a.k.a. ~30 days) is a reasonable standard but there's no possibility of a cash-out with the unlimited PTO.
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Apr 28, 2020 02:12
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lifg posted:I haven’t proven this yet, but I think the reason for lower PTO usage at companies with unlimited PTO is because many people just never use all their PTO even when they earn it. A lot of employees carry over PTO from year to year, and it’s not because they have a giant, dream vacation planned, they just don’t think of it. They don’t worry about it until they hit the “use it or lose it” cap. True psychopath behavior to me. I can’t fathom.
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Apr 28, 2020 02:42
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Not quite PTO related, but I’ve been called out for only working 40 hour weeks. My manager literally handed me a sheet of everyone’s hours for the last month and I was at the bottom with the minimum of 40 hours worked. This was maybe 6 months into my first job out of college and I promptly noped out of there a few months later. Maybe if everyone’s working 60+ hours a week you need to hire more people  This was in a very large Fortune 100 company. Maybe I got unlucky though. My manager was young and had a freshly printed MBA, which I believe teaches you how to get more widgets out of your employees by saying more hours = more widgets completed.
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Apr 28, 2020 03:50
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You were a bit unlucky, but that kind of poo poo is everywhere, and learning to avoid it is a core part of keeping your sanity, so good job there.
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Apr 28, 2020 03:52
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It's a fairly common thing for big companies to hire people fresh out of college, work them for 60-80 hours a week (because they don't know any better and there are all kinds of vague promises about promotions and payouts), and then dump them after they burn out in 2-3 years to be replaced by the next cohort of starry-eyed fresh grads. Big law firms, big consulting corps, and big investment banks are famous for it. Amazon, too (although they've supposedly been getting better recently).
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Apr 28, 2020 04:10
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I signed some ridiculous contract early in my career that said minimum 55 hours a week, which basically was 9-7 M-F and then 10-3 Saturdays It was my second "real job" and this was on the tail end of the 2008 great recession (apparently that's what we're calling it now) so I basically had to say yes or wait 3 more months for the next job offer to come around, or unemployment to run out, whichever came first That got old really fast. Boss would take us on 2 hour unpaid lunches* which meant we were there until 8-8:30pm instead of leaving at 7. Going to a doctor's appointment meant clocking out and making up the hours later. Eventually I refused to go to the lunches and worked through lunch, started leaving at 6pm, boss did not like that, they "replaced" me 6 months later... later got a job offer to come back for more money because their velocity dropped to zero. I framed that email. Just checked their website, they never did finish their website migration, never did setup a shipping calculator, gently caress em. 40-45 hrs a week is fine, especially if it's flex hours where you can come in and do 4-5 hours, and then crank out another 4 hours in the wee hours of the night, which is typically my most productive time *I'm one of those weird dudes that think of eating as an enormous waste of time, spending two hours doing it in the middle of the day off the clock was even worse
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Apr 28, 2020 04:29
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Hadlock posted:*I'm one of those weird dudes that think of eating as an enormous waste of time, spending two hours doing it in the middle of the day off the clock was even worse The occasional 2 hours birthday/fuckoff lunch is cool and good (when salaried) but that does sound horrible. Most of the time I just wanna eat a sandwich and take a 15 min. lunch and get back to it and leave early - especially if my day is filled with meetings and I'm not getting anything done that day anyways. Sometimes I need a full hour lunch break to decompress if it is something mentally taxing.
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Apr 28, 2020 04:45
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FMguru posted:It's a fairly common thing for big companies to hire people fresh out of college, work them for 60-80 hours a week (because they don't know any better and there are all kinds of vague promises about promotions and payouts), and then dump them after they burn out in 2-3 years to be replaced by the next cohort of starry-eyed fresh grads. Big law firms, big consulting corps, and big investment banks are famous for it. Amazon, too (although they've supposedly been getting better recently). My first job out of university fired about 30 fairly senior people and replaced them all with new grads one time. I don't think any of them lasted a year. I left not too long after, the company stopped existing a few years after that.
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Apr 28, 2020 05:16
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I might be in the minority, but I like unlimited PTO. I tend to take off a few hours here-and-there, and then take off 2-4 weeks all at once. You can do that with limited PTO, but you've gotta bank some hours, and then figure out how to track the 2-4 hours you take off in-day and hope you don't eat it all up. Most companies I've worked at with PTO allowances have max carryovers and other things that make leaving for a month at a time not so easy, and it makes me want to work through sick & tired so I can get that big vacation payoff. But the PTO-ness might be me preferring relaxed companies, and not really targeting openings at any companies that would have the mindset that would go against using PTO whenever I want. Doesn't hurt that I'm now a manager... My reports keep coming to me with "I'm going to take an hour tomorrow to do x" despite my telling them they don't need to account for every hour with me.
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Apr 28, 2020 16:46
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I just had a recruiter cold contact me this past week about openings at Google. It sounds like I need to get through the technical screen and then I'll be open to pursue various positions across the company that interest me. I'm currently trying to rewrite my resume because I haven't touched it in about two years. I'm interested in potentially getting away from web development into another field of programming. Historically I've had an issue of coming off as a jack of all trades (master of none) and this has hindered my job search. I've done lots of personal projects in areas including hardware (Arduino, Raspberry Pi, PCB design, breadboarding circuits) and photography (computational photography, camera design, etc.). Should I focus the resume on my web development only? Would it be a good idea to sprinkle those personal projects in? I've already passed the recruiter screen so maybe I can email the recruiter and ask his opinion?
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Apr 28, 2020 17:08
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Unlimited PTO is only a scam at places that openly hate their employees. It's good at places that don't. It's up to you to determine which kind of company you're interviewing at. In practice it's been great for me, despite all the hot takes that it's a scam to save the company whole thousands of dollars of accrued vacation.
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Apr 28, 2020 17:19
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Usually Google doesn't care much about specializations. They'll ask you about (some of) them, mostly to make sure you aren't lying on your resume, but they're going to subject you to the same interview battery that everyone else gets, which involves grabbing a bunch of random Googlers to ask you their pet interview questions. If you're lucky more than one of those interviewers will be from a team that liked what they saw on your resume, but I wouldn't count on it. I never heard of any Google-specific resume tips, so I'd just generally optimize it the same as you would if you were putting out your resume for general circulation. Emphasize your skills and the fact that you're a well-rounded individual.
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Apr 28, 2020 17:23
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huhu posted:I just had a recruiter cold contact me this past week about openings at Google. It sounds like I need to get through the technical screen and then I'll be open to pursue various positions across the company that interest me. I'm currently trying to rewrite my resume because I haven't touched it in about two years. I'm interested in potentially getting away from web development into another field of programming. Historically I've had an issue of coming off as a jack of all trades (master of none) and this has hindered my job search. I've done lots of personal projects in areas including hardware (Arduino, Raspberry Pi, PCB design, breadboarding circuits) and photography (computational photography, camera design, etc.). Should I focus the resume on my web development only? Would it be a good idea to sprinkle those personal projects in? I've already passed the recruiter screen so maybe I can email the recruiter and ask his opinion? If you are already to the point where the next step is an interview it doesn't matter all that much assuming you aren't being interviewed as a "frontend developer"*. For better or for worse the interview is not going to be based on your experience, I rarely do more than glance at a resume before an interview. If you make it past the interviews to the matching process it wouldn't hurt to have some of those personal projects on there if you're specifically wanting to get on a team that does those kinds of things (like a Nest or Home team), but for the most part outside some very specialized areas getting through the interview process qualifies you to work for any team. *Even frontend developers are hired as SWEs and can move to a backend team if they want without additional interviews, but it would probably narrow down the matching process for your initial position.
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Apr 28, 2020 17:24
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huhu posted:I just had a recruiter cold contact me this past week about openings at Google. It sounds like I need to get through the technical screen and Keep in mind that Google along with the other FAANGs have legions of contractors. Half the good people from my first job in the valley now work for "Google via Adecco"... I don't have personal experience but there are plenty of stories about people working as contractors promised a FTE at Google Proper after X stint at a contractor first, and then never manage to jump the chasm.... TL;DR make sure it's actually Google and not a contractor/subcontractor
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Apr 28, 2020 18:21
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I have a bunch of friends at Google. They openly admit their hiring process is terrible and capricious. They have so many more applicants than they know what to do with they are completely fine turning away qualified candidates in an attempt to avoid bad hires. Even if you're all studied up (ugh) it's a crapshoot at best and is really luck of the draw on who you get as interviewers and whether you gel with them or not. Many, many Google employees interviewed multiple times before getting hired, to the point that the process even encourages you to do so if you get rejected. All that said, if you pass the tech interview you then go on to team matching which is kind of like another round of interviews but much lower pressure. The tech interview already established you as "qualified" to work at Google, so from there you can theoretically try to work on almost anything. In reality, they still have lots of slots to fill on ho-hum teams so don't necessarily take the first team match if you don't like it. Jose Valasquez posted:*Even frontend developers are hired as SWEs and can move to a backend team if they want without additional interviews, but it would probably narrow down the matching process for your initial position. I have heard this, too. While technically you are a SWE, if you come in on a front end job req you seem to start out as a second-class citizen temporarily.
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Apr 28, 2020 18:29
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huhu posted:I just had a recruiter cold contact me this past week about openings at Google. It sounds like I need to get through the technical screen and then I'll be open to pursue various positions across the company that interest me. I'm currently trying to rewrite my resume because I haven't touched it in about two years. I'm interested in potentially getting away from web development into another field of programming. Historically I've had an issue of coming off as a jack of all trades (master of none) and this has hindered my job search. I've done lots of personal projects in areas including hardware (Arduino, Raspberry Pi, PCB design, breadboarding circuits) and photography (computational photography, camera design, etc.). Should I focus the resume on my web development only? Would it be a good idea to sprinkle those personal projects in? I've already passed the recruiter screen so maybe I can email the recruiter and ask his opinion? Being a jack of all trades isn't bad. If you focus your resume very strongly toward just one topic you might end up with only webdev interviews, plus those sound cool and it's something your interviewers can spot and (if they're good) talk to you about. When it comes to team matching having those might also match you with teams doing stuff like that, if that's interesting to you.
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Apr 28, 2020 18:35
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Guinness posted:I have heard this, too. While technically you are a SWE, if you come in on a front end job req you seem to start out as a second-class citizen temporarily. Anecdotally, at least in my part of the org frontend devs were a semiprecious commodity. Not so rare as UX designers, but still something that was in short supply. Consequently there was a fair amount of pressure to encourage existing frontend devs to keep doing what they're doing. I'm not saying this is always the case, but it's definitely a possibility you should be prepared for. That said, once you've been at Google for..a year? I think? you can just up and leave your team for an opening on another team assuming the other team wants you. Before that you need your manager's approval, but they will hopefully be well aware that keeping an employee on a team they don't want to be on is bad for everyone's morale. Anyway, basically what I'm saying is that lots of people do horizontal transfers in Google all the time, so just because you get hired to do one kind of work doesn't mean you're stuck like that as long as you're at the company.
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Apr 28, 2020 18:40
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Guinness posted:The tech interview already established you as "qualified" to work at Google, so from there you can theoretically try to work on almost anything. In reality, they still have lots of slots to fill on ho-hum teams so don't necessarily take the first team match if you don't like it. If you get to that stage of the hiring process, don't be surprised if all the options are really boring. Typical procedure is taking a boring position, getting a couple good review cycles in, then hopefully switching teams to something thats actually enjoyable. However it's important to find a team with a competent manager because a bad one can trap you and put your internal "career" in a death spiral.
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Apr 28, 2020 19:09
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i dont want to work somewhere where they call people nooglers
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Apr 28, 2020 19:11
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Before that you need your manager's approval, but they will hopefully be well aware that keeping an employee on a team they don't want to be on is bad for everyone's morale. In my last post, my mention of bad managers was just in the context of a bad manager leading to bad reviews leading to looking bad to prospective teams that you'd want to transfer into. If current manager approval is now also required then I guess avoiding a bad one is that much more important these days.
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Apr 28, 2020 19:15
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taqueso posted:i dont want to work somewhere where they call people nooglers same
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Apr 28, 2020 19:16
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Progressive JPEG posted:Is that new? It wasn't the case previously. IMO requiring current manager approval just means that leaving the company becomes the default solution. What I was told...3, 4 years ago? was that if you wanted to transfer out and you had been on the team for less than a year, you needed approval from your current manager. After that year you didn't. And if you were on a toxic team then there were some special options, though I seem to recall hearing that those were mostly volunteer-driven.
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Apr 28, 2020 19:44
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:What I was told...3, 4 years ago? was that if you wanted to transfer out and you had been on the team for less than a year, you needed approval from your current manager. After that year you didn't. And if you were on a toxic team then there were some special options, though I seem to recall hearing that those were mostly volunteer-driven. Oh right, forgot about the 1 year threshold, tbh it looks better if you hold out for at least a year anyway (also applies to jobs in general)
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Apr 28, 2020 19:55
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Progressive JPEG posted:However it's important to find a team with a competent manager because a bad one can trap you and put your internal "career" in a death spiral. What does a google death spiral look like?
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Apr 28, 2020 21:16
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For $250k USD per year you can call me whatever you want imo
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Apr 28, 2020 21:17
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lifg posted:What does a google death spiral look like? Stuck on a toxic team and can't leave it without leaving the company. Your "career outside of Google" career will still be fine; FAANG on your resume carries a lot of weight. Love Stole the Day posted:For $250k USD per year you can call me whatever you want imo "Noogler" is mostly just a gentle "hey this person hasn't learned the stack/culture yet". I've seen it used derogatorily but not often. Think more "newbie" than "noob". I will say though that $250k+/year sure does solve a lot of problems, but don't let you think that it makes it okay for you to stay in a stressful, burnout-inducing job. One of the best things about being a professional computer toucher is that you don't have to sacrifice your health, either physical or mental, in exchange for compensation. So don't. If things start going south, get out; if you got a good job once then you can do it again.
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Apr 28, 2020 21:32
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I'm not at this stage yet (still learning how to be a good manager), but does anyone have insight into going from a non-FAANG technical manager to a FAANG manager type role? Availability of roles, transition, burnout at mgr spot.
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Apr 28, 2020 22:47
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Mao Zedong Thot posted:Unlimited PTO is only a scam at places that openly hate their employees. It's good at places that don't. It's up to you to determine which kind of company you're interviewing at. I have the same experience. I was told when I joined a very small startup that they wanted unlimited PTO because it made bookkeeping easier, but also management easier, because they don't feel like tracking anybody's hours. So far I have never been denied any requests off, and my "requests" are often more like "I'm taking today off to go ride my bike because it's nice outside and supposed to rain all weekend" and they just go "Ok see you later" or rarely "Ok when you get back can you look at X" and I say "sure thing". It's very nice to work on a team that doesn't actively try to suck all the life out of their employees.
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Apr 29, 2020 15:36
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I'm at the point I have to think about if I'm just "senior dev" forever, team lead, architect, or whatever I'm not thinking of. Or another industry entirely? 8 years of experience this fall, and arguably I got started because of you wonderful goons telling me to get an internship. THANK YOU. For anyone who is lurking who is just starting out, GET AN INTERNSHIP. I've spent my time in the .NET space, and while the language, tooling, and so forth are great, I'm finding that management wise, a lot of the places I've worked at are poo poo. Biz people making judgement calls they are not equipped to make, being penny wise and pound foolish, using agile to meddle, micromanage and nit pick, nobody willing to actually improve how things are done process wise, and everyone balking at the thought of addressing tech debt, even if I drop the strangler (fig) pattern and martin fowler and all that jazz. I feel stagnant. For reasons beyond my career - coronavirus response as much as amenities, weather, landscape, and crap - I really want out of the loving south, and will be moving myself out ASAP. I want to work in SoCal, and that doesn't seem to be very good for someone who does C#. So, what do I pick up along the way? Python? Something else? I'm trying to optimize getting my first job out of this stack. How do you get that, besides "have a github 4head" or go to meetups and impress someone enough, and be able to interview CS fundamentals? And whether or not I use a particular language, how do you figure out what path to take as far as being a team lead or an architect? I find myself increasingly more concerned with and frankly more interested in how the people around me work, be it how they organize and the processes used, as much as making sure people are able to communicate, understand things, and getting the support they need to keep improving. At the same time, architecture and why it matters is coming into focus for me, and I'd rather at least try to take responsibility for it than just go "hey here's an idea" and find back "yeah but we don't have time!", or worse, if I offer to do it on my own time outside of business hours, "but the off shore people will complain."
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Apr 29, 2020 15:56
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https://www.indiehackers.com/
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Apr 29, 2020 17:18
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socal is a surprisingly borderline figgieland. norcal is the most figgieland figgieland tho
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Apr 29, 2020 17:23
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This looks interesting, do you have any experience with it?
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Apr 29, 2020 17:38
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I’ve been going through the same growing pains in my career. I found a job that took a leap of faith and gave me a title with the word “Architect” in it, and I spend a lot of my time trying to prove that I’m worth it. I convinced them to send me to a Developer to Architect workshop, which I loved. I don’t have any great advice, but I can tell you what’s working for me so far: Learn systems design and and read distributed systems papers. “37 Things One Architect Knows” is a good book. https://aosabook.org/ is a good website. https://thoughtworks.com/radar/ is sometimes a leading indicator. Read widely on MBA and project management and learn the language.
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Apr 29, 2020 18:16
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The Fool posted:This looks interesting, do you have any experience with it? its a big ol masturbatorium for self promotion. some peeps there do have big dicks tho
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Apr 29, 2020 18:25
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bob dobbs is dead posted:its a big ol masturbatorium for self promotion. some peeps there do have big dicks tho
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Apr 29, 2020 20:34
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https://twitter.com/GeePawHill/status/1256342997643526151
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May 2, 2020 05:28
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https://mobile.twitter.com/jim_deane/status/1256422113428242432
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