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TLOU5 will reveal not killing Ellie was the right choice as she become the Fungal Empress and command her mushroom hordes to stand down.
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Apr 29, 2020 22:15
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tlou3 what if people are bad...in space?!?!?!?
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Apr 29, 2020 22:26
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SIGSEGV posted:There's acting stupid because of credible human condition and then there's acting stupid because the author's a hack. Joel and Tess are stupid because they don't wear basic protection and have at least knives after years of being seasoned zombieland smugglers and bandits, the fireflies are stupid because they are literally unable to do at least one single thing without loving up, the bandits are stupid because they survive off ambushing two smugglers a month well enough to feed the whole thousand of them you fight and then, in a world were ammo and guns are rare and where vehicles are rarer than hen's teeth, they respond to two fuckers going through them by rushing at them backed up by jeeps with machine guns and shooting tens of thousands of rounds at them and then chasing them more and more while losing hundreds of members. After that, everything feels manipulative and overly set-up, of course the back kid and the black guy die, of course there's a cannibal cult led by a probably rapist that's way into the teenage main character, of course everything. im not going to argue that the last set of points arent gratuitous and over the line, they are, and theyre bad. i dont think the world as presented fails. people being stupid with resources even after the world has fallen is again just a pretty middle of the road post-apoc thing. no we can complain about reality around us feeling artificial but it isnt artificial, its real. the game just has stupid people in it because humans have a great capacity for being insanely stupid. its pessimistic and mean spirited and has stupid people acting stupidly for stupid reasons and everyone is basically failing while the world collapses. i dont think its wrong to not want to play something like that or not like the tone but i dont think its bad writing. i dont think its particularly good writing either outside of the characters, but i dont think its awful garbage, its just pretty unsurprising and standard for the setting. the character stuff is the draw and it obviously works because people like joel and ellie so much. Eimi posted:I never got the sense that this was the last hope for humanity. Rather that the Fireflies see this as a last hope for humanity because they can't envision a new world or anything but a return to the old. Things like the sewer community and Tommy's place seem like what the game presents as the way forward. Not that it will be easy, but that those structures will work better than clinging to the old world or old order. So the vaccine didn't feel as essential the survival of humanity as it does to the Fireflies. the communities like tommys are much better as communities and much more forward thinking and resolved to tackling rebuilding but at the same time they arent able to put an end to whats happening. the fireflies are reactionary in a lot of ways and are fooling themselves into thinking they can just reinstate the US government, but they are right specifically in regards to needing a vaccine for anything to rebuild. we already know that the infection keeps getting into and destroying the remaining communities regardless of how people try to avoid it and its basically inevitable that it will get into and destroy the others eventually. a vaccine is needed to give humanity the ability to actually halt it so that the communities that are actually stable are able to remain that way.
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Apr 29, 2020 22:32
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Pessimistic stories are fine, even as someone who is utterly sick of them. One of my favorite games is LISA and its insanely pessimistic. Ultimately a pessimistic story needs to make a point though, which TLOU does. Its nothing amazing but its not terrible writing. Ultimately i think its unfair to judge a game solely based on a list of text points because that deprives it of a ton of context. A lot of stories suck when written out like that. Many things that on paper are dumb, stupid, and 'wrong' end up working in the context of their media because of how they are implemented. So I don't think people will hate this game's story. People will be ambivalent about it and argue a ton for years to come. That is a mark of success as far as the company is concerned because it will make people talk about the media and keep it relevant for the third game they are obviously going to make.
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Apr 29, 2020 22:45
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Or people hate the story and tank the IP like GOT season 8 or ME: Andromeda
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Apr 29, 2020 22:47
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If your suspension of disbelief boils down to "these characters in a video game are not hyper-prepared super survivors" then you're basically extending that to the vast majority of movies, TV shows, and games. They are not trying to be hyper realistic but to present a fiction which sometimes is at odds with reality because what is presented visually is as much a part of creating something as what you write and presenting something visually in defiance of logic is pretty critical. Like in a realistic setting you wouldn't have running gun fights through malls, criminals wouldn't be supergeniuses who can hack into anything, and even in 'realistic' shows that present a grounded and down to earth setting they will err on the side of what is strong visually instead of what is 100% realistic. For games this is doubly so because the games have to present mechanics for people to play and will often bend logic to allow for mechanics that can be either fun or be used as part of drawing characters into a story. (Such as Ellie's gradual development from useless to super capable being done as much in mechanics as in cutscenes.) When creating a fictional setting that is inherently unrealistic (zombie apocalypse being a big one here) the point of it isn't to realistically model a zombie apocalypse and how it could happen. It's to present a specific setting issue that informs the characters and how they behave and feel. The Last of Us uses their zombie fiction to basically tell a story of a man who lost his daughter finding a new one and what he would do to protect her. Which boils down simply to "He would sacrifice the world, literally." As long as the setting and character arcs move towards that then it is doing its job no matter how implausible it is that Joel can be carrying a billion bullets in a setting where even one is precious.
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Apr 29, 2020 22:47
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Discussing the cold logistics of the Fireflies developing a cure from Ellie is kind of like asking "who is the alien" at the end of Annihilation. You're free to wonder I guess, but that's not really what the story is asking from you at that point.
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Apr 29, 2020 22:54
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I'm one of the few who thinks the leaks sound awesome and can't wait to watch how it actually plays out, but I think dismissing people confused by Abby's appearance as just not being able to process a muscly/strong woman is misguided. I've been lifting for a few years now, spent a lot of time in gyms and follow the fitness industry a little bit. Almost no one looks like Abby. A big barrier to entry for lifting for a lot of women are concerns about looking 'big and bulky' like Abby when in reality most women who consistently lift at an amateur level will start to get a physique more akin to Instagram models than the Hulk. Being as jacked as Abby is difficult for a man, let alone a woman. Most female power-lifters and Olympic lifters look nothing like Abby. A slightly higher proportion of elite Crossfitters start to approach a look like that, and some female bodybuilders. But as mentioned the training regime and nutrition regime, rare genetics, and supplement (tbh, steroid use in many cases) use necessary to achieve that look is insane even in the real world let alone a zombie (ahem "Infected") apocalypse. You can point out Mad Max screenshots and the fact that there's a million other things you need to suspend your disbelief for in a video game, but nobody male or female in the Last of Us looks anything like Abby and it's undoubtedly jarring and out-of-place, to an extent i would think it is intentional to unnerve you. The fact that they used a female bodybuilder for the model rather than another kind of lifter or athlete actually underscores the point of how much they wanted her look to stand out. Naughty Dog and Druckmann want this character to look absolutely terrifying so she seems like a threat when you're not playing as her. I actually hope the fact that she is so jacked leads to meaningfully different gameplay when you do play as her given the different physique.
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Apr 29, 2020 23:06
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Jacked video game women is to gamers what skull measurements are to nazis
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Apr 29, 2020 23:14
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Zeta Acosta posted:Or people hate the story and tank the IP like GOT season 8 or ME: Andromeda Those are cases of the writers not knowing what the gently caress they are doing and panicking. TLOU 2 is most likely a carefully planned story that is going to go exactly the way the authors intend; doesn't mean its good, but its probably not going to be a sloppy shitshack cobbled together hastily.
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Apr 29, 2020 23:25
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BOAT SHOWBOAT posted:I'm one of the few who thinks the leaks sound awesome and can't wait to watch how it actually plays out, but I think dismissing people confused by Abby's appearance as just not being able to process a muscly/strong woman is misguided. The major thing I will say here is that I don't think we'd even be having this conversation if Abby was a male character. If a tall hulking brute showed up who was capable of throwing Joel around with ease you wouldn't be getting people going into detail about how unrealistic his physique is. Trying to frame it as "they *wanted* to unnerve you" implies that the character looks unnerving for any reason other than "is absurdly buff" which is a massive staple for these sorts of stories, just almost exclusively given to male characters. Once you start going "well you'd need an exercise regimen and blah blah blah" then my question to you is "what about everyone else, who is living in a squalid hellhole with minimal food, and yet somehow look Hollywood pretty and healthy." When you only start to apply that level of 'realism' when it involves a woman then it really does not feel like you're making a good faith effort. I am not saying you are making a bad faith effort but "this person has a completely unreasonable body that would require massive amounts of training and strict diets" is not something applied to the vast majority of fictional characters.
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Apr 29, 2020 23:34
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Terminal autist posted:Jacked video game women is to gamers what skull measurements are to nazis I mean, I'm actually accepting the choice as a bold one that could have meaningful narrative and game-play implications, I'm just saying that pretending it's not obviously unnerving and anachronistic (and likely intentionally so) is glib and disingenuous. I'm all for more body types being represented in games. I'm not in favour of every female character looking like a big-titted waifish anime girl either and the gaming community's panic and defences like "You don't understand Japanese culture" when Feminist Frequency-type critiques are made are super embarassing. On another note, I don't really understand people saying "How could Naughty Dog think it was a good idea to have you play as Abby right after she kills Joel". I highly doubt, even if not for the leaks, that a meaningful proportion of players would have actually put their controller down and stopped playing. It's an extrapolation of the idea at the end of the first game. I actually don't agree with Joel's actions and wouldn't do the same if I was him, but I kept playing accepting that it makes sense that Joel (who doesn't have to be 1:1 aligned with me, the player) does that. It's Naughty Dog riffing on the same concept, pumped up to 11, on exploring storytelling in video games and the idea of a disconnect between and player and character motivations. People will say it's too clever by half and meta but no one has seen whether the game is compelling to play through or not, it's all going to be about the execution. edit: Re the post above, I take the point and agree with you that the rarity of something like this with a female character is playing a part, and how blowing up about 'realism' to do with anything with women in games is sometimes hard to, and probably isn't capable of being disentangled from blatant sexism (cf Battlefield controversy) BOAT SHOWBOAT fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Apr 29, 2020 |
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Apr 29, 2020 23:38
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Have anyone seen anything even remotely solid on the circumstances that lead to the leak? Is ND not paying their QA, as has been claimed, or is it another of those claims ala the trans hysteria that the nazis dreamed up?
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Apr 29, 2020 23:43
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https://twitter.com/duane_moody/status/1255614875889315840 Dunno if that's what happened but if it's true then good on them.
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Apr 29, 2020 23:43
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Unionise now. Solidarity forever.
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Apr 29, 2020 23:46
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Jimbot posted:https://twitter.com/duane_moody/status/1255614875889315840 I think it's probably not a great idea to tank your career prospects but I respect their willingness to put their money where their mouth is if true.
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Apr 29, 2020 23:47
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The story seems reasonable, but after looking at that subreddit, I wouldn't trust them if they told me the sky was blue.
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Apr 29, 2020 23:51
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none of us have a future anyway so props to the leaker and anyone else willing to swallow their fear of "prospects" long enough to gently caress their bosses over
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Apr 29, 2020 23:51
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the subreddit is probably dire but also nd definitely treat their devs badly
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Apr 29, 2020 23:53
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Oxxidation posted:none of us have a future anyway so props to the leaker and anyone else willing to swallow their fear of "prospects" long enough to gently caress their bosses over Can you gently caress off with this nonsesne
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Apr 29, 2020 23:55
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Zeta Acosta posted:tlou3 what if people are bad...in space?!?!?!? It's called Star Trek Picard
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Apr 29, 2020 23:57
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Internet Kraken posted:Can you gently caress off with this nonsesne i knew you'd like it!
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Apr 29, 2020 23:59
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Wait so we play the game as muscle lady right? I hope she gets a moveset like veteran Leon S Kennedy.
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Apr 30, 2020 00:01
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Oxxidation posted:i knew you'd like it! Very cool and epic to try and trigger someone's anxiety disorder. You're a great poster.
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Apr 30, 2020 00:02
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JBP posted:Wait so we play the game as muscle lady right? I hope she gets a moveset like veteran Leon S Kennedy. Remember when Leon rode off into the sunset with a pubescent girl on a jetski? Resident Evil 4 was literally The Last of Us
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Apr 30, 2020 00:05
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nd has been going down hill ever since they stopped making crash bandicoot crash bandicoot with guns was ok but then it got overplayed and dragged out then crash bandicoot with depression became their magnum opus but now they turned it into a liveleak war crimes compilation
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Apr 30, 2020 00:07
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Gologle posted:Remember when Leon rode off into the sunset with a pubescent girl on a jetski? Resident Evil 4 was literally The Last of Us Idk if this is a joke but Ashley is an adult.
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Apr 30, 2020 00:08
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I had to look it up, and you're right, she's apparently 20 in RE4. Wow. For the longest time I legit thought for some reason she was 16 or 17 in RE4.
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Apr 30, 2020 00:13
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ImpAtom posted:If your suspension of disbelief boils down to "these characters in a video game are not hyper-prepared super survivors" then They are, because the game says they are, because the game presents them as such and because other characters treat them as such, hardened bandits and smugglers. That have been doing that for twenty years. If they don't appear to be prepared for their jobs, it's a little problem. The problem with the bandit motorized infantry battalion isn't only that they piss it away on two idiots, it's that they have it in the first place, and are maintaining it, while only preying on a few travelers a month. The math doesn't check out. If they were a polity known to be excessively territorial and aggressive, it would only have the first problem. I could go and say, there's the problem of nobody fixing their walls, or cleaning poo poo up, or the chest height walls everywhere, but I don't, because I can accept that because it's a video game.
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Apr 30, 2020 00:24
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Gologle posted:I had to look it up, and you're right, she's apparently 20 in RE4. Wow. For the longest time I legit thought for some reason she was 16 or 17 in RE4. I mean the joke in that scene was also Leon going "Nooooo thanks. I'd rather not be in prison"
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Apr 30, 2020 00:28
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Thundercracker posted:I mean the joke in that scene was also Leon going "Nooooo thanks. I'd rather not be in prison" Maybe they changed it in development but she's his boss' daughter and his boss is POTUS.
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Apr 30, 2020 00:30
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Kavak posted:Maybe they changed it in development but she's his boss' daughter and his boss is POTUS. She says she's at University. I'm sure it's that he doesn't want to get owned by the president.
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Apr 30, 2020 00:33
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SIGSEGV posted:They are, because the game says they are, because the game presents them as such and because other characters treat them as such, hardened bandits and smugglers. That have been doing that for twenty years. If they don't appear to be prepared for their jobs, it's a little problem. They are prepared for their job to the best of their ability. The characters even say as much. They are in a lovely situation where they have to take bad jobs, that's the entire opening premise of how they even get involved. As for the second part: The setting should also very quick run out of gasoline for cars and general upkeep for almost everything. The 'math doesn't check out' applies to almost everything in this (or any) post-apocalyptic setting. "They found a way" tends to be the excuse for everything from medical care to perfectly clean well-trimmed hair to bullets being commonplace. They are not aiming for realism.
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Apr 30, 2020 00:36
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No, now I remember why I thought Ashley was so young. Because she acts like a teenage brat and I hate escort missions. Like FFS, you live in a post-Racoon City world. Can't you learn to be guns' braster or something?
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Apr 30, 2020 00:38
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lovely jobs that they are good at, on account of taking risky jobs for twenty years. "They found a way" would work for a few, not for a force that would already count as a village living exclusively as bandits preying on three people a month, it's not about trying for realism, it's about not insulting the player's intelligence. Also, I disagree, the game tries for graphical realism and tries its hardest to say it is gritty and real, they even made the zombies non magical for that. SIGSEGV fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Apr 30, 2020 |
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Apr 30, 2020 00:40
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SIGSEGV posted:lovely jobs that they are good at, on account of taking risky jobs for twenty years. They are working within the confines of the genre which very frequently features bizarrely well-equipped human villains who somehow remain stable and dangerous despite being run entirely by insane people and pulling the post-apocalyptic equivalent of building a $5 million dollar giant robot to rob banks. Again, it isn't trying to 'insult your intelligence', it's recognizing that realism and plausibility is not the inherent end goal when designing a threat to protagonists. This is doubly true for video games where they by necessity need a significant number of ever-increasing challenges as part of the basic design. SIGSEGV posted:Also, I disagree, the game tries for graphical realism and tries its hardest to say it is gritty and real, they even made the zombies non magical for that. Trying for graphic realism is not the same as trying for literal realism. Even things that try very hard to be realistic do things like, for example, allow you to painlessly knock someone out for a long period of time without any ill consequences to them. That is insanely unrealistic but is a common staple of most action genres. Like Batman Begins is sort of the poster boy for "trying to be more realistic and gritty" but at the end of the day it's still about a dude in a bat suit who is implausibly jacked, doesn't appear to need sleep, can beat people up without causing brain bleeds that kill them, and has access to billions of dollars he can spend without risk. Most zombies are non-magical these days. They're the results of viruses or mutated rabies or whatever. Even Romero's was "radiation from a passing meteorite" and not "a wizard did it." TLOU's zombies are no less magic than Resident Evil's. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Apr 30, 2020 |
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Apr 30, 2020 00:44
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tlou didnt need the zombie setting at all to tell the story they wanted to tell or a world ending scenario for that matter
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Apr 30, 2020 00:47
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Zeta Acosta posted:tlou didnt need the zombie setting at all to tell the story they wanted to tell or a world ending scenario for that matter It didn't need the zombie setting specifically but it did need a situation where the life of one person was put up against the life of the world. It could be that she's immune to Captain Trips or whatever but the zombie shorthand means they can make a physical threat to go with the world-ending danger as opposed to something amorphous. This is pretty good for a video game because it's a lot easier to emphasize danger when it has a physical presence.
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Apr 30, 2020 00:53
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Are the zombies even a factor in this game?
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Apr 30, 2020 00:53
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Kavak posted:Are the zombies even a factor in this game? they exist, but even in promotional materials they were downplayed to the point where people have been asking the same question you did since the first trailer
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Apr 30, 2020 00:55
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