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GN got some interesting insider info. As expected, DDR5 and the AM5 socket are coming together. No PCIe 5. It will launch in 2022 with Zen 4. They also reference a “Zen3+” based APU in 2022. Might be able to fill in the blanks there and assume there will be a Zen3+ on AM4 in 2021? Or maybe Zen3+ will be the name of the combo of the Zen3 compute dies with the new DDR5 IO die? https://www.gamersnexus.net/news-pc/3574-hw-news-supercomputer-mining-malware-ddr5-amd Cygni fucked around with this message at 07:18 on Apr 27, 2020 |
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Apr 27, 2020 07:15
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I'm planning to upgrade from this 3770k to a Zen 3 12/16 core desktop part when that becomes available, hopefully later this year. But this 7+ year old system is starting to creak a bit at the seams and I was wondering if it makes sense to build a new system with an AM4 board and a cheaper current Zen 2 cpu. How future proof are current AM4 boards? Do we expect to see new boards with significant improvements come out with Zen 3 desktop cpus? Is it better to just wait it out?
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Apr 27, 2020 14:31
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v1ld posted:I'm planning to upgrade from this 3770k to a Zen 3 12/16 core desktop part when that becomes available, hopefully later this year. But this 7+ year old system is starting to creak a bit at the seams and I was wondering if it makes sense to build a new system with an AM4 board and a cheaper current Zen 2 cpu. What people mean by "future proof" is very nebulous, it would help if you were more specific about what you want. Your ivy bridge system lasted a good long time: was it just the speed of the CPU that kept it fresh, or was it upgrades you added along the way? B550 motherboards are probably going to come out with Zen 3, and in a lot of ways I think B550 is more worth waiting on than the CPU. Current B450 boards are fine for a good midrange system, but long-term you have issues like 1 m.2 slot. (Some B450s have 2 m.2 slots, but it's generally very compromised.) With Zen 2 AMD added way more PCIe lanes and IO, but B450 boards don't take advantage because they're designed for Zen 1/+. So for someone who expects to add storage over time they're weak. But if your main upgrade is a new GPU every so often, none of that matters and B450 is fine.
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Apr 27, 2020 15:06
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Klyith posted:What people mean by "future proof" is very nebulous, it would help if you were more specific about what you want. Your ivy bridge system lasted a good long time: was it just the speed of the CPU that kept it fresh, or was it upgrades you added along the way? Good question. I mean the ability to add storage/PCIe cards (GPU/wifi). I do not expect to change out CPUs or memory since I prefer to buy a good high performing chip that will last me a few years over more freq upgrades. PCIe 4 and m.2 will be the biggest steps up. After reading your summary, waiting on the B550 boards seems like the right thing to me after reading it. So I'll either look at a cheap cpu/mobo combo that performs somewhat better than the 3770k/z77 I have now or see how to cheaply address its current issues (which makes the most sense probably). Thanks for the summary. e: Out of curiosity: is there a cheap mobo to pair with a 1600 AF or 3300x that could tide me over till a 16 core zen 3 part is out? For below $250 say, with PCI 3, no m.2 needed. Asking because that 16 core part may be a lot further away than end of this year. v1ld fucked around with this message at 15:26 on Apr 27, 2020 |
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Apr 27, 2020 15:18
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v1ld posted:Good question. I mean the ability to add storage/PCIe cards (GPU/wifi). I do not expect to change out CPUs or memory since I prefer to buy a good high performing chip that will last me a few years over more freq upgrades. PCIe 4 and m.2 will be the biggest steps up. PCIe gen 4 probably will not have any real impact over the life of a system -- today's high-end GPUs have barely detectable performance loss from being on a PCIe gen 2 connection, and the same thing was true of 1->2. And note that you can get all the IO you'd ever need (and PCIe 4) with X570 boards. They're just fairly expensive, the good X570s are $200 and up. But if you get a high-core chip you need to pay attention to VRM quality, so a cheap board isn't a good idea anyways. (Don't get a 16 core, it's isn't "future proof". Normal poo poo isn't gonna need 16 cores anytime soon.)
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Apr 27, 2020 15:44
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Klyith posted:PCIe gen 4 probably will not have any real impact over the life of a system -- today's high-end GPUs have barely detectable performance loss from being on a PCIe gen 2 connection, and the same thing was true of 1->2. I did a bunch more reading and only just realized that it's not a given that Zen 3 will use the AM4 socket. Expected and not contradicted by AMD, but not announced either. Sounds best to just wait and keep this system going till there's clarity. Thanks for the advice/info!
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Apr 27, 2020 17:21
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ConanTheLibrarian posted:prime95 doesn't use the GPU while F@H does, so it's probably just down to more heat in the same case. It's probably this. My 3600x (in a Define R5 with an NH-D15) will sit at around 65 when doing F@H by itself. If the GPU actually manages to get a unit assigned, the CPU jumps up to around 75. It's the same "delta over ambient," it's just that "ambient" inside the case is a lot higher with the GPU dumping another 200W of heat into the air that's headed for the CPU cooler. Theris fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Apr 27, 2020 |
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Apr 27, 2020 19:58
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AMD AGESA 1.0.0.5 has been made available and MSI already rolled it out for some of their MAX motherboards. Supposed to improve DDR4 support, system stability, and a fix for "HDMI audio lost issue when using AMD RX570 VGA card."
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Apr 27, 2020 20:39
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Fabulousity posted:AMD AGESA 1.0.0.5 has been made available and MSI already rolled it out for some of their MAX motherboards. Still can't run my RAM at 3600MHz :/
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Apr 27, 2020 22:01
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seravid posted:Still can't run my RAM at 3600MHz :/ Funny that, I'm running DDR4 @ 3600C16 on my 3600/B450M Mortar on AGESA 1.0.0.3 and I'm intentionally staying away from BIOS updates because I know there's a high chance of breaking something.
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Apr 28, 2020 03:38
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seravid posted:Still can't run my RAM at 3600MHz :/ This helped me and I don't know why: Clear CMOS, do not enable DOCP/XMP, set your ram to 3600 with like CL18 or 20 and necessary voltage. Then once it boots and mem-trains, you can lower timings from there I can do this off a fresh CMOS clear, but not after I enable the auto-ram timing table. Weird
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Apr 28, 2020 11:42
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seravid posted:Still can't run my RAM at 3600MHz :/ You've got the Zen+ processor, right? The memory controller on the chip probably just isn't capable of running it at that speed.
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Apr 28, 2020 16:41
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Lube banjo posted:This helped me and I don't know why: Interesting. Hadn't thought of keeping XMP disabled... but no dice. Some Goon posted:You've got the Zen+ processor, right? The memory controller on the chip probably just isn't capable of running it at that speed. Yep, as I was told before in this thread, this is most certainly it. I shouldn't care about a 266MHz increase, but the number being wrong unreasonably annoys me, dang it. That's how it is, though, since the QVL list for my board has roughly ten thousand memories tested for Zen+ and only a handful run at 3466MHz, with none running at 3600.
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Apr 28, 2020 19:05
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Lube banjo posted:I can do this off a fresh CMOS clear, but not after I enable the auto-ram timing table. Weird I've never known the full story on what "training the memory" is really doing, but it's evidently what makes that Weird Trick happen.
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Apr 28, 2020 20:47
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Is there some sort of trick for finding AM4/X570 based workstation motherboards with not just the ability to boot ECC memory in non-ECC mode but actual verified ECC support - as well as a minimum of one PCI-ex x16 and two PCI-ex x8 ports plus a minimum of two M.2 x4 slots (preferably three), a minimum of 2 RJ45 connectors on a not-Realtek or similarily-lovely MAC+PHY, and preferably a baseboard management controller that runs IPMI with vKVM? The plan is a minimum of 12 cores with SMT which givs me 8 threads for FreeBSD which is my daily driver, 16 threads for Windows when I wanna do some gaming, and 16 threads to spare for compiling stuff with poudriere when not gaming. BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 10:40 on Apr 29, 2020 |
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Apr 29, 2020 10:22
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Klyith posted:I've never known the full story on what "training the memory" is really doing, but it's evidently what makes that Weird Trick happen. Memory overclocking is CMOS algorithmically testing timings until it hits something that works higher than fallback spec. It is equal parts Black Magic and Technomancy, but that's memory overclocking in general.
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Apr 29, 2020 11:31
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Is it normal for Ryzen systems to take over a minute to completely shutdown?
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Apr 29, 2020 15:36
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no? I'm using NVMe and Win10 shuts down in like 4 seconds.
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Apr 29, 2020 15:46
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Passburger posted:Is it normal for Ryzen systems to take over a minute to completely shutdown? No unless it's doing a Windows 10 update or something
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Apr 29, 2020 15:56
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D. Ebdrup posted:a baseboard management controller that runs IPMI AFAIK, there's one board that meets this requirement before you get into EPYC motherboards: https://www.tyan.com/Motherboards_S8020_S8020AGM2NR-EX
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Apr 29, 2020 15:58
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D. Ebdrup posted:Is there some sort of trick for finding AM4/X570 based workstation motherboards with not just the ability to boot ECC memory in non-ECC mode but actual verified ECC support - as well as a minimum of one PCI-ex x16 and two PCI-ex x8 ports plus a minimum of two M.2 x4 slots (preferably three), a minimum of 2 RJ45 connectors on a not-Realtek or similarily-lovely MAC+PHY, and preferably a baseboard management controller that runs IPMI with vKVM? mdxi posted:AFAIK, there's one board that meets this requirement before you get into EPYC motherboards: https://www.tyan.com/Motherboards_S8020_S8020AGM2NR-EX Asrock Rack also has a couple server boards: https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=X470D4U#Specifications (CPU lanes are 16+4+0/8+4+8 with 2 M.2 off chipset and 2 dedicated Intel NICs with a third for IPMI, so this checks all the boxes. Uniquely, this board actually routes the x4 NVMe to a physical slot, which is how it gets 8+4+8) https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=X470D4U2-2T#Specifications (the above, but puts dual 10 GbE on the NVMe lanes, trades the middle slot for a smaller one off the chipset, ditches the SATA controller. This is the only board I've ever seen with 10GbE on the CPU direct lanes.) https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=X570D4I-2T#Specifications (X570 ITX, goes to 8x SATA with oculink, dual 10GbE, 1x M.2 on back, can be bifurcated to x4x4x4x4 if you have a breakout.) That is the sum total of AM4 server boards at the moment. Asrock also makes this threadripper board: https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=X399D8A-2T#Specifications Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Apr 29, 2020 |
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Apr 29, 2020 17:13
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Passburger posted:Is it normal for Ryzen systems to take over a minute to completely shutdown?
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Apr 29, 2020 17:17
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Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud posted:no? I'm using NVMe and Win10 shuts down in like 4 seconds. Rabid Snake posted:No unless it's doing a Windows 10 update or something ufarn posted:Mine used to take a while, but I can't remember why. Probably a BIOS thing? Thanks for the replies, I'm gonna go with "it's a bios thing" since I've been on the fence about the new agesa and haven't really updated beyond necessity. I also have my windows 10 running on a NVMe.
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Apr 29, 2020 17:27
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In my experience it's windows waiting for something to finish and either it eventually does or windows decides it's times out after a few minutes. Could be a misbehaving driver or service.
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Apr 29, 2020 17:32
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taqueso posted:In my experience it's windows waiting for something to finish and either it eventually does or windows decides it's times out after a few minutes. Yeah I'd say software over hardware. Windows doesn't shut down until running processes cleanly exit. For me Steam seems to have about a 50/50 shot of hanging on long enough so that windows flashes up the "kill this program?" screen for a tiny instant, but then moving on before I touch anything. But I rarely shut the PC down so that impression may be exaggerated.
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Apr 29, 2020 18:01
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I forgot to mention that it pretty much has to be ATX, since I'll be using at least two dual-slot graphics cards and a SAS HBA for 8 disks, as Ryzen 9 doesn't ship with an APU. I looked at it a bit more, and it looks like Ryzen 3rd gen is limited to 24 PCI-Ex lanes, so I don't think it's gonna work. I seem to recall people going nuts over the fact that AMD was supposed to have more lanes for expansion boards, but that appears to only be available on Threadripper and EPYC, which mean they're just as much out of reach for my budget as Intel chips with large amounts of lanes for expansion boards. Paul MaudDib posted:Asrock Rack also has a couple server boards: Paul MaudDib posted:https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=X470D4U2-2T#Specifications (the above, but puts dual 10 GbE on the NVMe lanes, trades the middle slot for a smaller one off the chipset, ditches the SATA controller. This is the only board I've ever seen with 10GbE on the CPU direct lanes.) Paul MaudDib posted:https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=X570D4I-2T#Specifications (X570 ITX, goes to 8x SATA with oculink, dual 10GbE, 1x M.2 on back, can be bifurcated to x4x4x4x4 if you have a breakout.) Paul MaudDib posted:That is the sum total of AM4 server boards at the moment. Asrock also makes this threadripper board: mdxi posted:AFAIK, there's one board that meets this requirement before you get into EPYC motherboards: https://www.tyan.com/Motherboards_S8020_S8020AGM2NR-EX Gotta be honest, I'm disappointed there's so little choice after almost a year, with nothing more even announced. BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Apr 29, 2020 |
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Apr 29, 2020 18:35
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taqueso posted:In my experience it's windows waiting for something to finish and either it eventually does or windows decides it's times out after a few minutes.
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Apr 29, 2020 19:22
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Maybe in the event log but it probably won't be a bluescreen type error. Bios isn't involved until the very very end afaik, possibly not at all
taqueso fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Apr 29, 2020 |
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Apr 29, 2020 19:23
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Passburger posted:Is it normal for Ryzen systems to take over a minute to completely shutdown? How long does logging out take (not the lock screen, real sign out)? And then shutting down from the login window? If the first one is the culprit, there is some dangling user software and you could start uninstalling poo poo. In the latter case, a system driver or messed up Windows. That's a bigger problem 
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Apr 29, 2020 19:25
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sincx fucked around with this message at 05:50 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Apr 29, 2020 19:30
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What *is* your budget?
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Apr 29, 2020 19:40
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D. Ebdrup posted:Is there some sort of trick for finding AM4/X570 based workstation motherboards with not just the ability to boot ECC memory in non-ECC mode but actual verified ECC support - as well as a minimum of one PCI-ex x16 and two PCI-ex x8 ports plus a minimum of two M.2 x4 slots (preferably three), a minimum of 2 RJ45 connectors on a not-Realtek or similarily-lovely MAC+PHY, and preferably a baseboard management controller that runs IPMI with vKVM? This gets as close to your requirements as I've seen: https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Pro-WS-X570-ACE/ Verified ECC support 3x PCIe 4.0 x16 slots (all x8 electrical) 2x M.2 slots (one 4.0x4, one 4.0x2) 1x U.2 connector (PCIe 3.0 x4) Two GigE ports (one Intel, one Realtek) IPMI, but no iKVM Slap an x1 Intel NIC in there and get a U.2 to M.2 adapter and you're there except for the iKVM.
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Apr 29, 2020 21:25
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SamDabbers posted:This gets as close to your requirements as I've seen: https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Pro-WS-X570-ACE/ We use these at work and they’re solid. The pcie slots do support Gen4x16 if you’re not loading all of them too by some complex table. I think one of the slots is off the chipset too.
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Apr 29, 2020 21:34
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So I ended up needing a replacement workstation and found a Asus TUF506 with the Ryzen 7 4800H. Really happy with it, its snappy as hell, supports all my virtualization tools and has 8 cores in a laptop. https://valid.x86.fr/m92x6f
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Apr 29, 2020 22:28
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sauer kraut posted:How long does logging out take (not the lock screen, real sign out)? And then shutting down from the login window? It's the latter, guess I'll have to look into it. sincx posted:Mine shuts down in seconds. I actually didn't even reinstall Windows when I recently put together my 3900X build. Just moved over the M.2 drive from the old Intel system and everything worked. That's what I did too.
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Apr 30, 2020 00:44
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Hey D.E.: [non-AMD suggestion spoiler alert] why not pick up a Broadwell 2658v4? 40 lanes, ATX board availability, 32 lanes for GPUs then throw this crazy fucker in there: https://highpoint-tech.com/USA_new/series-ssd7110-overview.htm I have the all-non-bootable-but-raidable weird rear end bastard of that card and it works great.
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Apr 30, 2020 01:27
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NewFatMike posted:What *is* your budget? The right question to ask is: Why the gently caress is Threadripper so damned expensive in  ; a 3960X is just about the price of the entire computer I had planned out, when I found out the BMC is some lovely home-grown solution involving a complete lack of IPMI and HTML5 vKVM - and the apparent lack of SR-IOV is kind of a killer, too.SamDabbers posted:This gets as close to your requirements as I've seen: https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Pro-WS-X570-ACE/ Even if it is supported, the NIC is I211, not I350 so SR-IOV won't work on it. The x1 slot, if my dream motherboard has it, would be used for my soundcard. Crunchy Black posted:Hey D.E.: [non-AMD suggestion spoiler alert] why not pick up a Broadwell 2658v4? 40 lanes, ATX board availability, 32 lanes for GPUs then throw this crazy fucker in there: https://highpoint-tech.com/USA_new/series-ssd7110-overview.htm Already have the SAS HBA flashed with IT-mode firmware, ready to be passed through to FreeBSD via hardware accelerated IOMMU - it's how my old-and-used current build-server is booting.
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Apr 30, 2020 05:01
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1630v4? 1s only so I often forget about those parts. https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/92987/intel-xeon-processor-e5-1630-v4-10m-cache-3-70-ghz.html
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Apr 30, 2020 05:09
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Crunchy Black posted:1630v4? 1s only so I often forget about those parts.
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Apr 30, 2020 05:19
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Yeah, duh, I was actually playing a game and realized why that wasn't an option originally. 
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Apr 30, 2020 05:35
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