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D. Ebdrup posted:Budget is ~$1500. uh, you need to lower these expectations or up that budget my dude.
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Apr 30, 2020 05:41
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D. Ebdrup posted:Budget is ~$1500. AM4 is not going to suit your purpose. (although I will note you could get an X470D4U and put a big GPU hanging off the last slot, and have a 1-slot card in the first slot if you need it). But yeah, be nice if they moved that same board to a full-ATX and spaced the slots out more, I've thought the same thing. There just flat aren't any ATX server boards for AM4. LGA1151v2: a Xeon E-2288G is basically a 9900K, but I doubt server motherboards will let you break the TDP limit, so after tau you're dropping down to like 4.3 GHz or something. Still much better latency and slightly better gaming IPC than Zen2. Doing some searching through Asrack, Supermicro, Tyan's catalogs and Newegg (server motherboards, C242/C246 ATX format boards) the only one I'm coming up with that's ATX and ECC capable with a couple large, decently spaced slots, and IPMI is this one. For X99, I will note that you could get a board like X99 WS/IPMI and that's a bit bigger. I'd pass on the 2658v4 and go for a 1660v3, that's 8 cores that can be overclocked on an X99 board. Chip is about $150, motherboard is about $200 if you watch ebay. Many of the ASUS WS series boards support RDIMMs and LRDIMMs if the processor does (which, Xeon, you're good to go up to 768GB RAM). Not quite 12 cores but not bad. LGA2066 exists, but you'll need a non-overclocking chipset to get ECC, there is a flat split between those segments for Intel. Performance is not incredibly great if you're not overclocking to 4+ GHz, which you will not be able to do on an ECC board/ECC chip. Cascade Lake-X itself is fairly cheap and you could get a X299 Dark for $200, or other boards. There are sales on those boards because partners are having trouble moving them. But, no ECC. TR4 performance sucks especially for gaming, but there are some cheap boards that meet your lane/slot requirements, albeit only PCIe 3.0. TRX40 doesn't have any IPMI boards at all yet. Great job with the socket change, it'll only be another 18 months going by the track record of AM4 with IPMI boards. Epyc Rome can meet your needs, but you'll give up at least some gaming performance and the price will range between "more than you want to spend" and "I only need one kidney". That board with 4.0 is about $650, cheaper PCIe 3.0 options are $450, a 16C will be $678 or a 24C will be $1152 (bearing in mind that higher core counts have lower clocks, so the 16C may be better if that's all you'll need). I don't think any of the whitebox stuff can support a TDP high enough for the frequency-optimized parts yet unfortunately, even if you could afford it. Sorry scro, that's everything on the market. It really is a disjoint set of capabilities, between per-core performance, expansion capability, ECC capability, RAM capacity, etc. Every single socket on the market offers a slightly different mix and none of them have everything. I personally think they should merge the 7002P and Threadripper and unlock them like the X5600 series used to be, but they didn't. Hopefully that helps you narrow it down, you're probably looking for an ATX board given your spacing, high performance so relatively recent, probably more towards the HEDT side of the capabilities given your need for expansion. Not that many boards with IPMI in that bracket. Personally I actually think the X99 WS/IPMI is a pretty cool combination of features for a home server. Fairly competitive gaming performance with overclocked Haswell-E, with ECC capability, while using RDIMMs or LRDIMMs if you want, with a large amount of expansion, and IPMI, for something that costs you ~$350 on ebay. But you only get 8 cores. Rome is good performance and gets your lanes and core count, but you're splashing out $1300 on the CPU+mobo and gaming performance is probably a bit lower than an OC'd X99. Consumer-socket options are costing you some mix of gaming performance, core count, IPMI, and connectivity from there, but cost less. That's pretty much your options. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Apr 30, 2020 |
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Apr 30, 2020 05:44
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; a 3960X is just about the price of
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Yeah, I just checked out that soundcard. WTF. Are you trying to do broadcast quality audio on a budget? Are you Tim Burke!?
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Apr 30, 2020 05:46
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Tonight, on PC Hunters! WIFE: I run a 32-thread BSD managed server hosting a 40TB micro-cloud and continuous compiler service HUSBAND: And I use a professional sound interface to do games on a VM BOTH: Our budget is $1500
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Apr 30, 2020 06:02
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yeah do sound on your guest GPU monitor output, that's an easy relief valve on a port here lol (inb4 "oh no I'm doing looking glass on an entirely different vm")
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Apr 30, 2020 06:03
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I mean don't get be wrong it's a refreshing change from the usual crazy PC build plan which goes more like WIFE: I browse the internet HUSBAND: I play FPS games at a non-pro level with the settings turned all the way down BOTH: Our budget is $10,000 and we're spending all of it
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Apr 30, 2020 06:07
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D. Ebdrup posted:I said AM4/X570 specifically because of the price of any Threadripper. This is X399 I can read. I was doing this thing called "trying to help". quote:the CPUs for which all start at prices that are way outside my price point You didn't mention a budget; only a very long list of requirements. Your responses to everyone have been very illuminating, though.
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Apr 30, 2020 06:30
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Paul MaudDib posted:lots of good Crunchy Black posted:Yeah, I just checked out that soundcard. WTF. Are you trying to do broadcast quality audio on a budget? Are you Tim Burke!? I used to freelance nights as a disc jockey (ie. flipping discs, no speak) - so when the radio station went tits-up, the boss handed me that audiocard. I got lucky in that a FreeBSD developer has the same card, and wrote a driver for it. mdxi posted:I can read. I was doing this thing called "trying to help".  I thought I was missing something (other than mentioning my budget, which I could've sworn I included, but demonstrably didn't), but it looks like AMD is no better or worse than Intel in terms of market segmentation when it comes to the number of PCI lanes hanging off a CPU.
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Apr 30, 2020 07:32
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about options
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AMD Confirms ZEN3 and RDNA2 by Late-2020 All right, let me see if I understand this correctly: The 3xxx series on desktop is Zen 2 (7nm) but the 3200G and 3400G APUs are only Zen+ (12nm) We've just seen the release of the 4xxx series on mobile, which is Zen 2 (7nm) and we're expecting Zen 2 desktop APUs (say, the 4400G or something) later this year but we're also expecting Zen 3 (7nm+) on desktop later this year? something like a Ryzen 4600 and the rest of that kind of product stack, without an iGPU? EDIT: and then looking farther forward from there, Zen 3 APUs sometime in 2021, then maybe nothing else for that year, then 2022 has the Zen 4 (5nm???) on an AM5 platform with DDR5 memory? gradenko_2000 fucked around with this message at 07:36 on Apr 30, 2020 |
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Apr 30, 2020 07:33
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gradenko_2000 posted:AMD Confirms ZEN3 and RDNA2 by Late-2020 Lmao at this naming scheme.
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Apr 30, 2020 09:37
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Oh late to respond but yeah that asus pro ws x570 ace does support sr-iov. I cant speak on how well it works as we connect sr-iov drives through a pcie switch fabric which abstracts that away from the host platform so dont need to enable it. I recall seeing the option in bios though. E: its in the bios manual too 
priznat fucked around with this message at 09:53 on Apr 30, 2020 |
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Apr 30, 2020 09:51
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The only reason they announced that non-news is to grab some attention ahead of the Intel embargo lifting later.
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Apr 30, 2020 11:27
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Hey AMD, I'll give you 1 month to leak something from Zen 3, if not I will just get a 10600kf and move on with my life.
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Apr 30, 2020 12:39
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Otakufag posted:Hey AMD, I'll give you 1 month to leak something from Zen 3, if not I will just get a 10600kf and move on with my life. you've been posting the same poo poo since 2017, why just a month?
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Apr 30, 2020 15:13
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Klyith posted:you've been posting the same poo poo since 2017, why just a month? Haha you arent kidding. Theyve been rambling about upgrading on and off for several years.
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Apr 30, 2020 15:35
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Why a 10600kf over a 3600X? Why 6 cores? Why Ryzen 4000? So many questions
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Apr 30, 2020 15:45
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priznat posted:Oh late to respond but yeah that asus pro ws x570 ace does support sr-iov. I cant speak on how well it works as we connect sr-iov drives through a pcie switch fabric which abstracts that away from the host platform so dont need to enable it. I recall seeing the option in bios though.  I guess I looked in the manual for it, not the BIOS manual, because I'm used to my own motherboard manual having everything. So it looks like I can build the AMD system I want to, afterall. Thank you everyone for putting up with my foibles, and I apologize again for being an rear end. Also, fun fact, you can hotlink to subsections of manuals.
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Apr 30, 2020 15:52
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B-Mac posted:Haha you arent kidding. Theyve been rambling about upgrading on and off for several years. That was a fun post-history reading, lol.
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Apr 30, 2020 16:01
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Klyith posted:you've been posting the same poo poo since 2017, why just a month?
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Apr 30, 2020 16:28
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poo poo is expensive in my third world country, plus sometimes the wait is more exciting. If I could go back in time I'd grab a 8700K when it was cheap and the US dollar was weak. gently caress my life.
Otakufag fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Apr 30, 2020 |
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Apr 30, 2020 16:49
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Out of curiosity, is there any sort of chance that the 3rd-gen Ryzen chips might conceivably get a SKU that comes with integrated graphics cards? The reason I ask is because the Pro WS X570-ACE has both HDMI and DisplayPort, and 1st-gen and 2nd-gen Ryzen chips had them. BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Apr 30, 2020 |
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Apr 30, 2020 17:10
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D. Ebdrup posted:Out of curiosity, is there any sort of chance that the Ryzen 9 chips might conceivably get a SKU that comes with integrated graphics cards? There's always a chance. But no, nothing has indicated there's anything like that coming.
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Apr 30, 2020 17:11
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Some Goon posted:There's always a chance. But no, nothing has indicated there's anything like that coming. I guess I would have to dig up some die-shots, to see if there is room for it. EDIT: ↓ Welp. 
BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Apr 30, 2020 |
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Apr 30, 2020 17:20
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Some Goon posted:There's always a chance. There's zero chance, the IGPU versions are conventional single-chip designs rather than the desktop IO/Chiplet set. So those are never gonna have more than 8 cores. And adding a IGPU to the chiplet design is something that's always been speculated on as possible, but AMD has firmly said will never happen. (It would be a engineering project just as big as the mobile chips, but with a nearly non-existent market.)
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Apr 30, 2020 17:28
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teagone posted:Lmao at this naming scheme. OEMs want the number to go up even if it makes no sense.
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Apr 30, 2020 17:34
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At best we're looking at a R7 4800G w/8CU that can hit ~2.1Ghz and the IMC is a beast to hit ~4266 or so and like, slot just under an RX 460. You'd need something like cheap eDRAM would fix this, and technically GloFo can do it and it'd help pad out the WSA for the foreseeable future. Intel's Crystal Well is 77nm² for 128MB, I think comparably GloFos 14HP process is 60% more dense and you'd get a 128MB 46-50mm² die. I wonder how cheap GloFo would make those, and if their 12nm process can be used instead for cost effectiveness. But I don't think they'll do it because they didn't do it for mobile, unless eDRAM adds too much static power consumption. Honestly what's the cheapest a R7 4800G could even be sold for that still makes sense? ~$229?
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Apr 30, 2020 18:19
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Klyith posted:There's zero chance, the IGPU versions are conventional single-chip designs rather than the desktop IO/Chiplet set. So those are never gonna have more than 8 cores. Never say never, I'm wagering that one of the things that AMD needs to happen for it to happen is a 5nm/7nm IO die.
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Apr 30, 2020 19:40
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Honestly I think they just don't need to do it. They put igpus into low end chips so they'll have something for SIs, but the enthusiast market is all going to be buying a GPU anyways, and if you're just looking to do some CPU number crunching you don't have a lot of alternatives that have an igpu / the cost of a simple 550 or 710 isn't going to be meaningful.
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Apr 30, 2020 19:49
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SwissArmyDruid posted:Never say never, I'm wagering that one of the things that AMD needs to happen for it to happen is a 5nm/7nm IO die. IO is one of the things where making it smaller just doesn't help much. For memory or pure compute, smaller is better in almost every aspect, but when you need to deal with PCI-E and memory stuff, the comparative size and power reductions for going from 12nm to 7nm was like 20% of the benefit for compute stuff. It was also like 8x as expensive, due to the mask complexity and overall large size of the dies. They're messing with libraries and doping and some other stuff to try to claw back some of the benefits of larger nodes onto smaller ones, basically by allowing you to have 'jumbo' transistors that would look more at home on a 40nm node, for higher power drive conditions for external signaling.
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Apr 30, 2020 20:31
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I think its safe to say that Asus skimped on the heatsinks for the 4800H 8 core in their laptops. Hitting 90*C regularly....
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May 1, 2020 18:36
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CommieGIR posted:I think its safe to say that Asus skimped on the heatsinks for the 4800H 8 core in their laptops. "Not good enough, still has 15 degrees until TjMax" - Apple engineer For real though, it seems like a lot of the 4800H laptops are running the CPU way over its TDP spec and letting it bounce off the thermal limit. In some of the reviews, the CPU is over 45w for entire benchmark runs. But thats how you are getting that performance out of the little feller, afterall.
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May 1, 2020 21:10
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Cygni posted:"Not good enough, still has 15 degrees until TjMax" - Apple engineer Yup, that seems to be the gist of it. Also: Can't use Ryzen Master to downvolt because Hyper-V and Ryzen Master butt heads. Which is a laughable problem since Microsoft has said Hyper-V based security tools will become the norm in the next year.
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May 1, 2020 21:48
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CommieGIR posted:Which is a laughable problem since Microsoft has said Hyper-V based security tools will become the norm in the next year.
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May 2, 2020 00:02
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Combat Pretzel posted:Next year? VBS is getting enabled on fresh installs now already, if VT-d/RVI is enabled in the BIOS. Yup, I have HyperV enabled because I primarily bought this as a mobile workstation, so turning it off isn't an option.
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May 2, 2020 01:37
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Cygni posted:"Not good enough, still has 15 degrees until TjMax" - Apple engineer Well....that's something I'll keep in mind the next time I'm shopping for a Ryzen-based laptop.
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May 2, 2020 12:41
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Does anyone know off-hand how 2700x vs 3700x stack up as far as sensitivity to ram speed? I have a good (ridiculous) amount of 2400 ram I'm using with a 2700x (which has been fine), but wondering if I swap to a 3700x if I will find any strangeness? I vaguely remember reading that one or the other was more sensitive to ram speed, but cant find the reference now.
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May 2, 2020 15:21
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While architecturally Zen1 is "more dependent" on memory speed, the faster a CPU you get, the more slow memory will hold you back. The performance gains from upgrading to good ram would be more performance/$ than the CPU upgrade, especially taking the resale values into account.
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May 2, 2020 15:33
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FRINGE posted:Does anyone know off-hand how 2700x vs 3700x stack up as far as sensitivity to ram speed? Zen 2 can decouple the Infinity Fabric clock completely from memory clock. The default setting is always 1:1:1, so I'm not sure what the performance results would be of running the memory at 1200 mhz and the IF at let's say 1600mhz. With previous zens people often said part of the benefit of fast ram was clocking the IF faster, but I've never seen that put to the test now that it's possible to do so. Anyways disregarding the possibility of manual IF settings, Zen 2 seems to be about the same as before: a 5-10% spread from 2400 to 3600.
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May 2, 2020 15:41
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Klyith posted:Zen 2 can decouple the Infinity Fabric clock completely from memory clock. The default setting is always 1:1:1, so I'm not sure what the performance results would be of running the memory at 1200 mhz and the IF at let's say 1600mhz. With previous zens people often said part of the benefit of fast ram was clocking the IF faster, but I've never seen that put to the test now that it's possible to do so. Thanks! Looking at the mysql and vmware results it doesnt look like too big of a deal real-life wise for me. K8.0 posted:While architecturally Zen1 is "more dependent" on memory speed, the faster a CPU you get, the more slow memory will hold you back. The performance gains from upgrading to good ram would be more performance/$ than the CPU upgrade, especially taking the resale values into account.
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May 2, 2020 16:53
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Cygni posted:"Not good enough, still has 15 degrees until TjMax" - Apple engineer Huh. I'm looking at mid range gaming laptops and was interested in the AMD offerings even though they're limited to 2060's because of the supposedly better power consumption and thermal things. I guess that shouldn't really be much of a factor if this is going to be a thing for them.
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May 2, 2020 16:55
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