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Sampatrick posted:mono red was absolutely the fourth best deck in the format prior to ikoria idk how you could possibly argue it wasnt. temur rec was pretty much dead up until shark typhoon made it good again. i didnt say there cant be aggro decks other than mono red - rb sacrifice has very often taken the form of an aggro deck depending on what configuration was optimal for a given tournament. im saying that the issue is that you have no access to potent burn spells so it is often very difficult to close out games because of all the random life gain in the format. there's also a rg stompy deck thats quite good and of course the cycling deck is a pretty good aggro deck. im just saying that it isnt the dual lands that make aggro decks poorly positioned in the format. the mana base just doesnt really factor into it.
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Apr 30, 2020 00:16
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Irony Be My Shield posted:I think the manabase very much does factor into it, only 4 untapped duals means you get a lot of awkward starts where you can't curve out properly. The cycling deck mitigates this somewhat due to mostly spending colourless mana but I have frequently had to send back hands due to not having both colours (or had very awkward starts due to tapped lands in other builds). RB depends on the build, the mana's pretty good if you're just playing Mayhem Devil and Claim the Firstborn but gets rougher if you're trying to escape Kroxa and stuff. thats fair i guess but i really do think that the structural issue of stuff like uro, cat oven, and now serrated scorpion is a much bigger issue. all the incidental lifegain compounded with the lack of good burn means that aggro decks dont have inevitability against anyone and that makes aggro decks way harder to build and play.
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Apr 30, 2020 00:20
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Sampatrick posted:i feel like half the people in this thread posting their opinions about standard primarily play pioneer/modern and then look at mtggoldfish and try to spew opinions based on whatever is at the top right now tbf that's the best way to play Standard
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Apr 30, 2020 00:34
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If you want to play mono red aggro and actually win you should be on Ember Hauler and Slaying Fire imo. They give you some much needed reach
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Apr 30, 2020 00:34
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Sampatrick posted:i feel like half the people in this thread posting their opinions about standard primarily play pioneer/modern and then look at mtggoldfish and try to spew opinions based on whatever is at the top right now i don't play any of those toilet formats and i haven't seen a red deck make a single placement in any of the tournaments along the side of mtggoldfish or the top 32 of the magicfest on sunday are you making opinions based off the bo1 ranked queue at gold or something? Sampatrick posted:there's also a rg stompy deck thats quite good lmaoooooooooo
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Apr 30, 2020 01:00
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Free lightning strike.
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Apr 30, 2020 01:34
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Look Around You posted:Free lightning strike. It's not 2009 any more and Bolt would be fine.
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Apr 30, 2020 01:48
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Lone Goat posted:the more reasonable argument is that there should be good untapped duals so that aggro decks can be two colours The most reasonable argument is abolish the reserved list and print the ABR duals again, put Badlands in the basic land slot like they do Bloodfell Caves.
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Apr 30, 2020 01:54
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:The most reasonable argument is abolish the reserved list and print the ABR duals again, put Badlands in the basic land slot like they do Bloodfell Caves. I do think there's a good chance they'll reprint them someday, but no way will it be in packs and probably not Standard legal.
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Apr 30, 2020 02:43
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Looking at all these people complaining about no one playing Mutate when Mengucci was farting around top 200 Mythic with Simic Mutate last night. E: he ended at #105 Eej fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Apr 30, 2020 |
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Apr 30, 2020 03:15
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Lone Goat posted:i don't play any of those toilet formats and i haven't seen a red deck make a single placement in any of the tournaments along the side of mtggoldfish or the top 32 of the magicfest on sunday yes you are aware that standard existed before ikoria, which is the standard i was talking about in that context? did you not notice the rg deck that had a ton of good results? please continue spouting your opinions.
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Apr 30, 2020 03:34
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Sampatrick posted:thats fair i guess but i really do think that the structural issue of stuff like uro, cat oven, and now serrated scorpion is a much bigger issue. all the incidental lifegain compounded with the lack of good burn means that aggro decks dont have inevitability against anyone and that makes aggro decks way harder to build and play. Finally... It's tibalt's time to shine
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Apr 30, 2020 03:47
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Sampatrick posted:yes you are aware that standard existed before ikoria, which is the standard i was talking about in that context? did you not notice the rg deck that had a ton of good results? please continue spouting your opinions. Sampatrick posted:i feel like half the people in this thread posting their opinions about standard primarily play pioneer/modern and then look at mtggoldfish and try to spew opinions based on whatever is at the top right now Sampatrick posted:whatever is at the top right now Sampatrick posted:right now ok
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Apr 30, 2020 04:01
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Eej posted:Looking at all these people complaining about no one playing Mutate when Mengucci was farting around top 200 Mythic with Simic Mutate last night. If I could play like Mengucci I wouldn't be farting around with you goons (yes I would)
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Apr 30, 2020 04:03
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have you played with or against the rg deck? it is at the very least good enough to get top 8 at a weekly championship, which seems like a reasonable way to determine if a deck is pretty good or not. i didnt say the deck was tier 1, i said the deck was pretty good, and it is! what a loving shocker.
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Apr 30, 2020 04:09
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RG Fires has a very good nut draw but not being Jeskai means it has no way of dealing with bad or mediocre hands. Also it really sucks when the Trample Dino token gets Claim the Firstborn'd
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Apr 30, 2020 04:44
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Reprint Lightning Bolt and dark ritual
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Apr 30, 2020 05:06
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Magic is dead (for at least another month.)
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Apr 30, 2020 06:06
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Silhouette posted:Reprint Lightning Bolt bolt would be fine right now in standard reprint dark ritual and necropotence in the next core set. unban oko. lets go
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Apr 30, 2020 09:16
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suicidesteve posted:Magic is dead (for at least another month.) Is "in store play" referring to some Wizards-owned shops and stores? Is the paper product still going to go out?
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Apr 30, 2020 09:19
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Nolgthorn posted:Is "in store play" referring to some Wizards-owned shops and stores? Is the paper product still going to go out? join the goon discord where I talk about me being able to play in store and make others jealous and/or indifferent edit: I hope the don't ban lurrus soon because I want to try out of my shiny foil version tomorrow
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Apr 30, 2020 09:37
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How do you have a foil copy of a card that hasn’t been released physically?
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Apr 30, 2020 14:03
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I thought the set released earlier in the asian market
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Apr 30, 2020 14:09
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AlphaKeny1 posted:bolt would be fine right now in standard yeah why do we need creatures with less than 4 toughness anyway
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Apr 30, 2020 14:24
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Reprinting Lightning Bolt is what we need to make cards like Sower of Temptation good again
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Apr 30, 2020 14:25
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Legalizing Bolt in Standard would be the single nail in the coffin for Aggro completely. Jeskai Hippo supreme dominance for all of standard.
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Apr 30, 2020 14:26
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Bust Rodd posted:Legalizing Bolt in Standard would be the single nail in the coffin for Aggro completely. Jeskai Hippo supreme dominance for all of standard. you cant run bolt with hippo lol
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Apr 30, 2020 14:27
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Skyl3lazer posted:yeah why do we need creatures with less than 4 toughness anyway Name a standard with bolt in it where no less then 4 toughness creatures were played, ever
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Apr 30, 2020 15:42
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I've lost all track of when pre-release/releases are actually happening or not happening now. Is IKO "out"? I've been playing it on Arena but I have no idea.
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Apr 30, 2020 15:51
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Entropic posted:I've lost all track of when pre-release/releases are actually happening or not happening now. I think May 15th(ish) is when it releases in the US.
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Apr 30, 2020 15:59
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I'm considering trading an SP-MP dual or two for a box of Ikoria and/or a set of the Commander decks. I figure I'll get more mileage out of those than the duals sitting in a box until who knows when. I can play sealed with my fiance and then put the commons and uncommons in my cube, or teach my daughter how to play Commander with some fun and balanced decks.
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Apr 30, 2020 16:51
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Bolt needs to deal 6 to creatures and exile them so that Uro isn't an obstacle.
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Apr 30, 2020 17:10
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1RB, Target player takes 3 damage, discards 1 card, and sacrifices one land. Fuckin ... Flashback: RRBB
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Apr 30, 2020 17:25
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Balance Shock (R) Balance Shock deals 2 damage to any target. If the target was its controller’s chosen companion, Balance Shock deals 20 damage to that player.
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Apr 30, 2020 17:38
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Baby's Counterspell - 1WU - Instant Counter target spell. If the spell's card has an ability that was introduced in the most recent set, exile it instead of putting it in the graveyard, then search its controller's hand, library, and graveyard for cards with that ability and exile them. Players can't cast spells with that ability for the rest of the game.
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Apr 30, 2020 17:54
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Skyl3lazer posted:yeah why do we need creatures with less than 4 toughness anyway mandatory lesbian posted:Name a standard with bolt in it where no less then 4 toughness creatures were played, ever The actual answer is a bit more nuanced, let's take Lightning Bolt's last big Standard appearance. SCG Open Atlanta in 2011. The RDW lists have creatures with Haste, Manic Vandal ETBs, Vulshok Refugee has pro-red, a low-curve guy like Grim Lavamancer, things with 4 or more toughness, and Kargan Dragonlord who has most of its value show up if it's leveled which you should probably do if the opponent doesn't have an untapped mountain. UB control is all big boys, Sadbot who makes value on ETB and on dying to bolt, Phyrexian Crusader who has pro-red, Bloodghast who doesn't stay dead, and Azure Mage who offloads most its value onto the activated ability like Kargan Dragonlord. Tempered Steel is all low-curve aggro guys and Kor Firewalker with pro-red. Caw-Blade is all guys who are actually several guys where bolt can't handle the whole thing, or big boys, or Kor Firewalker and Azure Mage again. And anything with 2 toughness or more survives when holding Sword of Feast and Famine. Some other lists from this era are similar. Exarch Twin relies on 4-toughness Deceiver Exarch. Valakut Ramp only has 4-ofs of Overgrown Battlements and Primeval Titan who survive a Bolt, and Eldrazi Green leans on those two as well. BR Vampires is all about Bloodghast and Kalastria Highborn who turn dying into a sport. Nothing like Glissa the Traitor, Ob Nixils the Fallen, Necrotic Ooze, or Precursor Golem who get completely trashed by Lightning Bolt. To survive in a hellish Lightning Bolt World, you gotta produce value really fast, replace yourself, come back, or survive through toughness or immunity. It pressures decks to skip from small guys to enormous guys, and things in the middle are just laughed out of the room. A lot of these issues were compounded by the Titans, Wurmcoil Engine, Consecrated Sphinx, and Dismember, which hogged a ton of the top-end and got rid of any competitors who didn't have 6 toughness at 6 mana. Still, this further hurts the middle of the pack since the small guys are hitting life and the big guys survive one. In short, Lightning Bolt would only further make this a world of Titans and Teferi and make General Kudro unplayable, gently caress you.
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Apr 30, 2020 17:59
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That's literally the world we live in already. You're just saying dies to removal. Lightning bolt being in standard or not isn't somehow going to change whether or not you can play creatures. Like, look at your argument for a second. Do you think that RDW or Tempered Steel wouldn't play low cmc creatures or creatures with haste if bolt wasn't in the format? Because they would still play those cards pretty obviously. Similarly, do you think that a control deck would play creatures with no abilities if bolt wasn't in the format? Because obviously the answer is no, they wouldn't, because those creatures don't accomplish the game plan of the deck. Twin wasn't playing around Bolt by playing Exarch, it was just the best (only?) card to combo with Splinter Twin. You're imagining way more impact from Bolt than was actually present.
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Apr 30, 2020 18:42
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Wanna know what makes it hard to play aggro decks? A card that kills your two drop and then gives them a 3 Mana play that you have to spend most of your third turn answering in order to attack.
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Apr 30, 2020 18:46
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I'm starting to think that creatures which trade down tempo wise with commonly played removal spells without giving some kind of immediate value have always been bad, rather than this somehow being a recent phenomenon.
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Apr 30, 2020 18:55
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Gentlemen, I give you: Lava Coil that Cantrips. Actually you'd have to make the cantrip the old "exile... play before the end of your turn" rider to make it fit the sacred color pie. Huh, now that I think about it Ikoria gave us Lighting Strike That Sorta Loots.
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Apr 30, 2020 18:57
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