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Hibbloes posted:leak spoilers i think(?) i read that ellie supposedly dies to abby in the end, and while they've portrayed it as a "oh my god what have i become" bit, it seems like abby's emphasis on more dakka puts her out ahead in the cycle of vengeance. Was that a fake leak? Really if joel had gone through and cleaned out the firefly's kindercare, the idea might be less "cycles of violence are messy and uncontrollable" and more "be thorough". I think people thought that early on but currently what I've heard it is "Abby gets into an extremely violent fight and is going to kill Ellie's girlfriend (who is also pregnant) but is stopped at the last minute by one of her surviving friends. They leave and once Ellie recovers she sets out to go after her despite her girlfriend telling her it wasn't worth it." As far as I know there's nothing currently backing up "Ellie dies."
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Apr 30, 2020 02:44
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ImpAtom posted:I think people thought that early on but currently what I've heard it is "Abby gets into an extremely violent fight and is going to kill Ellie's girlfriend (who is also pregnant) but is stopped at the last minute by one of her surviving friends. They leave and once Ellie recovers she sets out to go after her despite her girlfriend telling her it wasn't worth it." Aha, thanks for the clarification. I had heard ellie's death at the end to abby was the end game downer moment. i figured ellie killing abbys bow buddy was the impetus for her death at the end, now there was no one to hold abby back
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Apr 30, 2020 03:00
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The biggest miss for me is still jumping to controlling Abby. I can't get over that I have to suddenly control this person who killed a character I like (even if he is horrible and honestly deserves something similar) to hunt another character I like. Maybe if it was the whole game, as others have said, but the given scaffold gives no motivation for me to continue once it hands you control of Abby. Like hell if you wanted to do the whole revenge is bleak poo poo, what if the mission structure is split, you have relatively peaceful walk and talk stuff with Abby's group, learning who they are as they gradually freak out about being hunted, and the only time you control Ellie is when she's murdering them. Sort of like the old rear end Creed method of learning more about a target and then an elaborate mission where you finally kill them. Only in this case you learn more about them from the perspective of their friend.
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Apr 30, 2020 03:01
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i must compose posted:I don't get why people are hating on last of us I thought it was fun the story was alright. I don't understand what Joel did that makes him a bad guy except he like says he did some bad stuff? He is only ever really shown killing people in self defense except the end. He admits that before the story he was a highwayman.
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Apr 30, 2020 03:03
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Kavak posted:Romero had messages besides We Live In A Post-Apocalyptic Society.
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Apr 30, 2020 03:04
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honestly the idea of controlling a character you probably outright hate upon meeting is the interesting part to me
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Apr 30, 2020 03:06
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Stux posted:honestly the idea of controlling a character you probably outright hate upon meeting is the interesting part to me I've come around on it. I'm sure people will be pissed off but I don't mind it. I laughed like a dickhead through most of MGS2 on release because I could taste the salt.
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Apr 30, 2020 03:14
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i mean it can still be handled awfully and while i thought tlou1 was competent that doesnt mean at all that 2 will be so, we'll see i guess
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Apr 30, 2020 03:15
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JBP posted:I've come around on it. I'm sure people will be pissed off but I don't mind it. I laughed like a dickhead through most of MGS2 on release because I could taste the salt. there wasn't really any major reason to hate raiden upon his introduction beyond 'he's not snake' so i dunno if that's a fair comparison
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Apr 30, 2020 03:18
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Brother Entropy posted:there wasn't really any major reason to hate raiden upon his introduction beyond 'he's not snake' so i dunno if that's a fair comparison From what I remember at the time there was a bunch of grousing about having to play such an "unmanly" character who had emotions and relationship problems, the bait-and-switch probably exacerbated those feelings
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Apr 30, 2020 03:20
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Brother Entropy posted:there wasn't really any major reason to hate raiden upon his introduction beyond 'he's not snake' so i dunno if that's a fair comparison Seems pretty fair since they're turning the dark game around on the dark game protagonists.
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Apr 30, 2020 03:21
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The leakers might be framing things in a deliberately bad way out of spite- depends on if their bonuses are fixed regardless of sales or the employee/s responsible have already lost theirs, but I don't think Ellie is going to die either. I really wish the leaks had the ending proper, it would cement a lot of things. Druckmann is high as a kite on his own farts but would have to be completely braindead to think talking up their LGBT representation and ending it with their lesbian lead dying horribly and the new protagonist being her killer would land well. Besides common sense and marketing there's larger financial issues that Sony would have raised- what can you do for DLC with that, let alone a continuation? I think that's how the Abby is trans idea gained traction besides the stereotyping- how can they defend Burying The Gays? There's a transperson digging the grave! What is the 'Ellie leaves to hunt Abby' thing being based on, BTW? Is that a guess or did someone claim that in a post?
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Apr 30, 2020 03:27
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:From what I remember at the time there was a bunch of grousing about having to play such an "unmanly" character who had emotions and relationship problems, the bait-and-switch probably exacerbated those feelings Yeah this too lol. Not macho enough, too macho, make up your minds!
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Apr 30, 2020 03:29
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i think the raiden thing was purely in the west as well and hes always been popular in japan
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Apr 30, 2020 03:30
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JBP posted:He admits that before the story he was a highwayman. ooh, romantic!
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Apr 30, 2020 03:45
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Yeah but like but show don't tell. I can be like "hey guys I'm like a real bad mother" but does it really mean anything if I don't act it out. Maybe I need to go back and play it again all I remember is like a couple sentences in the beginning mentioning like "I'm not a good man dammit"
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Apr 30, 2020 03:47
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i must compose posted:Yeah but like but show don't tell. I can be like "hey guys I'm like a real bad mother" but does it really mean anything if I don't act it out. Maybe I need to go back and play it again all I remember is like a couple sentences in the beginning mentioning like "I'm not a good man dammit" joel's elbow has killed so many men that had the UN still existed it would have been recognized as a WMD
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Apr 30, 2020 03:53
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Joel says he basically did what the bandits did and then you see what the bandits do for hours. Did you need a flashback to him torturing a pregnant woman
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Apr 30, 2020 03:53
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joel is also the only fictional character i've ever seen use a crowbar to dislocate someone's kneecap which requires some twisted feats of imagination on both the character and the fellas who wrote him
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Apr 30, 2020 04:06
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Hibbloes posted:Right, i agree with you on that completely. i kinda mean that the way abby commits these acts (brutal murder of foster father, explicit in a traumatic way) she is making sure she traumatizes elly and fertilizing the grounds of revenge. she doesn't sneak a poison pill into joel's cuppa. she's triggering elly's desire for revenge in a way that doesn't make "well, why dont you just let it go?" seem sensible to me. from what I saw in the leaked cutscene Abby doesn't intentionally kill Joel right in front of Ellie with the intent of traumatizing her. Abby and friends are beating Joel in a separate room away from everyone else, and Ellie barges in just in time to see the final blow
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Apr 30, 2020 04:09
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Eimi posted:The biggest miss for me is still jumping to controlling Abby. I can't get over that I have to suddenly control this person who killed a character I like (even if he is horrible and honestly deserves something similar) to hunt another character I like. Maybe if it was the whole game, as others have said, but the given scaffold gives no motivation for me to continue once it hands you control of Abby. Like hell if you wanted to do the whole revenge is bleak poo poo, what if the mission structure is split, you have relatively peaceful walk and talk stuff with Abby's group, learning who they are as they gradually freak out about being hunted, and the only time you control Ellie is when she's murdering them. Sort of like the old rear end Creed method of learning more about a target and then an elaborate mission where you finally kill them. Only in this case you learn more about them from the perspective of their friend. I think it would be neat if Abby controlled different to Ellie due to being buff. Like if Abby can push over obstacles that Ellie has to climb and work to get around. It would also establish that they have different tactics. It’s been established for a while that Ellie can be a crafty survivalist and do bad poo poo to people if pushed, it wouldn’t surprise me if you have to fight out of her traps and take some cutscene injuries with glass shards and the like before you kill her. It probably is not going to be a one-sided beatdown. My guess is what the feeing they’re going for is emotionally rooting for the CPU to beat you.
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Apr 30, 2020 07:49
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I am legitimately delighted by how bad this all sounds. Granted, I think the first game was massively overrated trash. why are so many people marking spoilers here, though? Stux posted:i think the raiden thing was purely in the west as well and hes always been popular in japan In Japan he was more popular but there was still a mix of people that wanted to play Snake vs. Raiden. Supposedly Kojima put the mask for Raikov (or w/e I forget his name) into MGS3 so people could play as Raiden because he was popular enough for that. Oxxidation posted:tlou: the painful Please don't bring something with good writing into this. Cnidaria posted:I was thinking of the first Nier!!! I hope you can dress kaine as a maid in reincarnation. Cuntellectual fucked around with this message at 10:29 on Apr 30, 2020 |
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Apr 30, 2020 10:19
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Yikes, this game sounds like poo poo. were we really supposed to think that saving ellie was morally dubious? that's not how brains work. next you'll tell me letting chloe die was the correct decision in life is strange.
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Apr 30, 2020 11:07
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:Joel says he basically did what the bandits did and then you see what the bandits do for hours. I mean, apparently that’s Druckmann’s jam, so.
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Apr 30, 2020 11:12
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Just let the whole game be the player controlling a pissed off ellie running around killing everyone, then when she gets to the end and it's revenge time she loses. There's a twist that the player character dies and then also that revenge stories are bad and post apocalypse society is bad and people die pretty much at random in an apocalypse etc. Also on joel's choice to slaughter everyone in game 1, I'd never make that choice. I'd be long dead or zombified. Did they ever explain why the rage zombies don't tear each other apart?
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Apr 30, 2020 11:18
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hemale in pain posted:Yikes, this game sounds like poo poo. It was the way Joel dealt with her personally.
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Apr 30, 2020 11:26
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Honestly it makes sense that there would be a lot of leaks in Last of Us 2. All those buildings and such seem pretty dilapidated, it would probably take way more than a solid plumber to fix them up right.
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Apr 30, 2020 11:35
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All of these retrospective "TLOU 1 was overrated trash" "was just OK/competent" takes are so hollow. It was a game that was almost universally loved upon release. Sure, emphasis on almost and some of you might be the exception, but it stinks of contrarian nonsense. TLOU is a very tightly crafted story, it is the best looking game of the PS3 generation and still looks great to this day, it has better performances/animation/character writing than almost every game before or since, and while not especially mechanically complex, there is enough there to provide a tense "light survival horror/action" experience that is not as heavy on resource management as say, early Resi, but is certainly toned down on set-piece wildness compared to Uncharted. The most common criticism of it is "hurr durr it's a movie" and sure, it should make for a pretty good HBO series, but the interactivity and being "on the stick" is pretty core to the experience too. The fact that you, the player, have to make your character survive to the end in this post-apocalyptic wasteland provides a different relationship to the characters and moments than a non-interactive experience would. Honestly the only serious criticism I can make of TLOU is that Ellie running around in front of enemies not being spotted at all is something of an immersion killer, but as I understand it this was a last minute change because having her constantly be in peril and trigger enemies seeing you would be aggravating as gently caress (they do try and build some tension into it with you needing to rescue companions at points, but I hope they find more of a middle ground of this in how companions are treated in the sequel). It has a very impactful beginning and end, and the core story of Ellie and Joel's relationship developing is well told. A lot of it is existing genre tropes but it's all executed well and the Cordyceps zombies are a fresh enough spin on an old formula. What do people actually dislike about this game?
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Apr 30, 2020 11:38
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BOAT SHOWBOAT posted:All of these retrospective "TLOU 1 was overrated trash" "was just OK/competent" takes are so hollow. It was a game that was almost universally loved upon release. Sure, emphasis on almost and some of you might be the exception, but it stinks of contrarian nonsense. agreed, it's one of my favourite games
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Apr 30, 2020 12:34
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BOAT SHOWBOAT posted:All of these retrospective "TLOU 1 was overrated trash" "was just OK/competent" takes are so hollow. It was a game that was almost universally loved upon release. Sure, emphasis on almost and some of you might be the exception, but it stinks of contrarian nonsense. Yep, a bunch of posts have that feel around them.
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Apr 30, 2020 13:03
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TLOU is one of my top five games of all time and that’s why I feel so burned by the spoilers.
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Apr 30, 2020 13:11
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I don't know if it's too five for me but I love the first one. I just finished a third playthrough and it probably won't be the last because now I'm actually considering going for trophies (boy is it stingy with trophies). I think the spoilers sound like poo poo though, particularly the switch in the middle and how abrupt it is. I doubt they can pull the execution off in such a way that they can effectively make us empathize with Abby *after* she brutally kills Joel. They should have just had her be the PC from the start. If anything switch back to Ellie for the second half.
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Apr 30, 2020 13:17
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BOAT SHOWBOAT posted:All of these retrospective "TLOU 1 was overrated trash" "was just OK/competent" takes are so hollow. It was a game that was almost universally loved upon release. Sure, emphasis on almost and some of you might be the exception, but it stinks of contrarian nonsense. Video game narratives are graded on a curve and Naughty Dog has made its bones by telling cinematic stories that at times strain the interactive nature of an interactive medium. Just because something is popular doesn't mean it is good. The great joy of our modern media landscape is that there are so many options for so many people of varying tastes. You are posting in a quarantined thread devoted to spoiling the sequel, or pointing and laughing about that, so most of the readers here will be somewhere on a spectrum of "don't care" to "actively disliked" the original. Most who loved the original are staying far away. I don't think you need to resort to claiming that people who didn't care for the first are hollow contrarians in order to explain why we'd see a negative skew in the opinions about the game in this thread.
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Apr 30, 2020 13:24
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I played through TLOU when it released and I still think the ending was a good moral dilemma and that it was a well made game, but I also had to force myself to finish the game which I don't think is praise.
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Apr 30, 2020 13:41
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doingitwrong posted:Video game narratives are graded on a curve and Naughty Dog has made its bones by telling cinematic stories that at times strain the interactive nature of an interactive medium. This is an important point. I guess a lot of it comes down to your personal criteria for what makes a game good. Last of Us has basically all the same pros and cons as the Uncharted series - excellent presentation, good characterization, great performances from the voice actors, great visuals on the one hand; boilerplate gameplay and a fairly weak plot that relies on contrivances on the other hand. Usually for me to think a game has a good or great narrative, a requirement is that the game's systems, mechanics, interfaces, etc. have to reinforce that narrative. Silent Hill 2, Dark Souls, Shadow of the Colossus, Death Stranding, etc. All the components unique to games as a medium need to reinforce a story and its themes for a game to really be top tier for me. With Naughty Dog games essentially what you have is presentation that is good or even great by the standards of an action movie or prestige TV series but in such a way that the story didn't need to be told through a game. It could be told just as well (or maybe better) as a movie or TV series. Even though the writing quality in Last of Us is far better than something like Heavy Rain, I'd put both games in the same general category of "excellent presentation for a video game but could have just as easily been a movie or TV series." That's not to say Last of Us is bad, it just doesn't meet my criteria for a very good or great game. Last of Us 2, from what I've seen of gameplay footage, seems like it'll be more of the same but further straining credulity. Like, these games stress a self-serious tone and a sense of realism (i.e., people are meant to behave and react as close as possible to our own reality if mushroom zombies happened). But a lot of this falls flat for me when the gameplay doesn't mesh with that tone. Violence is meant to have a cost, but even in gameplay trailers for the new game Ellie gets hit with a giant sledgehammer or thrown through plate glass and just shrugs it off. That disconnect can work in something like Uncharted where the tone is meant to match a summer action movie where the hero is basically invincible, but it makes all the realistic depictions of brutal violence in Last of Us seem gratuitous and shallow.
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Apr 30, 2020 13:56
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Inf note: Don't link to the leak. So apparently they have a gym in this apocalypse, which is why Abby is so buff.  Drunckmann's fart huffing must be off the charts. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) Somebody fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Apr 30, 2020 |
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Apr 30, 2020 13:58
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Freelancefogy posted:So apparently they have a gym in this apocalypse, which is why Abby is so buff. Is this another leak? Also a gym isn't exactly hard to put together or maintain, have you seen where Ronnie Coleman trained? Somebody fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Apr 30, 2020 |
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Apr 30, 2020 14:08
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BOAT SHOWBOAT posted:It has a very impactful beginning and end, and the core story of Ellie and Joel's relationship developing is well told. A lot of it is existing genre tropes but it's all executed well and the Cordyceps zombies are a fresh enough spin on an old formula. What do people actually dislike about this game? glad you liked the video game :~) but if i wanted to shut my brain off for a real mainstream experience i'd want both hands free to smash popcorn and beers down my gaping fat mouth a triple A experience with regurgitated gameplay and polished enough storytelling, real middle of the road poo poo, formulaic and as expected to win hearts over the fun comes when all that praise drowns out any criticism, becoming hubris and poo poo like this happens see also: todd howard
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Apr 30, 2020 14:16
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JBP posted:Is this another leak? Also a gym isn't exactly hard to put together or maintain, have you seen where Ronnie Coleman trained? It looks like the full leak. Dunno if it should be directly linked here? Skippy McPants fucked around with this message at 14:25 on Apr 30, 2020 |
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Apr 30, 2020 14:21
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Skippy McPants posted:It looks like the full leak. Dunno if it should be directly linked here? it's the hot dang leak thread and it's what we're here for!! or else we'll go for another 20 pages of english literature essays and abby nudes
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Apr 30, 2020 14:24
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