|
Avirosb posted:Then why impeach? Decorum doesn't mean anything in a Trump-led America. Because a shitload of people were screaming for it, knowing it wouldn't mean much in the long run. Pelosi drat sure didn't want to do it. It sure shut those people up (or they just flipped around and asked why did they bother). It also made the pissbaby mad, which is all they can do nowadays.
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 18:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 17:09 |
|
|
ImpAtom posted:I mean there isn't. Politicians being liars is basically expected. The number of people who genuinely pay attention to these things on anything but a surface level is rock bottom. Plenty of people can and will tell you that Obama was a good president who made their lives better, even some of those who Obama actively made life worse for. Obama succeeded because he lied out of his rear end and made it sound good. So did most Presidents. Trump's possibility of winning isn't due to his honesty and capability of doing good. It's because he's a professional conman who inexplicably is very good at selling his cons. Jesus Christ if you believe all of this why the gently caress do you think any Democrat would ever lift a single finger to help anyone? This is the most nothing-matters poo poo I've ever seen.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 18:14
|
|
|
Angry_Ed posted:Garland is still better than anyone Trump would nominate in the event RBG dies or retires and/or Breyer retires. Like you really aren't getting the point that losing the Supreme Court for 40 years will in fact kill progressiveism a lot harder than 4-8 years of Biden/Biden's VP Lemming posted:Congratulations Justice Merrick Garland and Justice Merrick Garland's clone! I didn't say that Garland would be the same as any Trump nominee, but he would clearly be a loving trash replacement for RGB/Breyer, and my initial criticism was that Garland is exactly the sort of person who Biden would nominate now you're just straight up agreeing with me what is going on
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 18:17
|
|
|
Rudoku posted:It sure shut those people up (or they just flipped around and asked why did they bother). Judging by this forum it is the latter, even though most people here realistically knew that even if they moved to impeach the Senate would prevent removal.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 18:17
|
|
|
Parakeet vs. Phone posted:Presumably because a lot of goons are either trapped in centrist/liberal strongholds where a push from the left is fruitless or they live in CHUD strongholds. It's not too encouraging to hear that someone halfway across the country got a cool state rep, even if I strategically understand why it's important in the great game. A lot of us are kinda stuck to a degree now, too. My Rep is Talib, but once we start getting too outnumbered by older, spread out people, it's too hard to breach and you at best get Whitmer instead of Sayed as governor. Progressives have an issue with messaging outside of the younger educated group, to people that get much of their info off of TV.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 18:18
|
|
Maybe I'll have a spare 
to throw at one of the out-of-state leftists who get posted, but I'm not exactly flush right now.
|
Willo567 posted:You're gonna have to suck it up and realize that we may never have a perfect system, rather than let people suffer under a deranged moron. No. I reject the premise that we have to accept this corrupt, self-serving bullshit in order to facilitate some modicum of normalcy, especially when that normalcy isn't even equally distributed in this country.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 18:21
|
|
|
Lemming posted:I didn't say that Garland would be the same as any Trump nominee, but he would clearly be a loving trash replacement for RGB/Breyer, and my initial criticism was that Garland is exactly the sort of person who Biden would nominate now you're just straight up agreeing with me what is going on I'm not agreeing with you since the only reason you're making this stupid argument is because you think it's a bad thing Biden probably gets two SC picks if he wins and not Trump, despite the fact that since he's not going to pick any ghouls from the Federalist Society's list means that automatically his picks are better even if they aren't as good as RGB/Breyer. If that's not what you think then what is your point. Mat Cauthon posted:No. I reject the premise that we have to accept this in order to facilitate some modicum of normalcy, especially when that normalcy isn't even equally distributed in this country. Don't worry I'm sure another 4 years of idiot fascism will surely teach everyone a lesson and they'll finally vote for socialism. Yup. Totally gonna happen. Let's just make everything worse quicker...like...some sort of...acceleration of crises... Angry_Ed fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Apr 30, 2020 |
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 18:21
|
|
|
Willo567 posted:You're gonna have to suck it up and realize that we may never have a perfect system, rather than let people suffer under a deranged moron. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 18:22
|
|
|
Angry_Ed posted:I'm not agreeing with you since the only reason you're making this stupid argument is because you think it's a bad thing Biden probably gets two SC picks if he wins and not Trump, despite the fact that since he's not going to pick any ghouls from the Federalist Society's list means that automatically his picks are better even if they aren't as good as RGB/Breyer. If that's not what you think then what is your point. My point is Biden sucks and he'd try to pick lovely justices to replace better ones and that's bad I think this was extremely clear and straightforward
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 18:24
|
|
|
Prester Jane posted:People will crawl over glass to show up and vote if they think that it will improve their lives and the lives of those they care about, but of all their voting for is to lessen the damage they will suffer most people are going to tune out and worry about their immediate lives. Actually we have learned that Trump voters will crawl over broken glass if they think he will hurt the people they don't like There is no "economic anxiety" argument. It's been disproved several times. They want to hurt people: they vote to hurt people. That is the GOP base motivation full stop
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 18:24
|
|
|
Acebuckeye13 posted:"democrats don't actually want the thing they campaigned on, gave a public vote for, and would substantially erode Republican electoral advantages" sure is a take alright I mean it's not an absurd take, California Democrats passed statewide single-payer a half a dozen times for Schwarzenegger to veto, campaigned on how they'll totally do single-payer if only those dastardly Republicans weren't in the way, were rewarded with a filibuster-proof majority and a governing trifecta, and then went "oh whoops gee we're just a bit busy right now can't find time to pass that bill again heehee" Senate Democrats defeated Cap and Trade and DREAM despite Lieberman supporting them, Senate Democrats defeated drug price negotiation despite it getting some Republican votes and therefore not requiring Lieberman's support. Maybe they really want HR1, but since the nominee has said he won't touch the filibuster it will never pass so who cares
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 18:25
|
|
|
Angry_Ed posted:Don't worry I'm sure another 4 years of idiot fascism will surely teach everyone a lesson and they'll finally vote for socialism. Yup. Totally gonna happen. Let's just make everything worse quicker...like...some sort of...acceleration of crises... Sounds like nothing mattering to me
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 18:25
|
|
|
Tatsuta Age posted:whole lotta eggs in the "let's trust the mushbrained rapist to follow through" basket Yeah, I could hardly blame anyone for not rushing to buy that lotto ticket.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 18:27
|
|
|
Acebuckeye13 posted:"democrats don't actually want the thing they campaigned on, gave a public vote for, and would substantially erode Republican electoral advantages" sure is a take alright Democrats have campaigned for and given a public vote for stuff they have no intention of actually passing. Remember when California dems passed UHC into a Schwarzenegger veto? Remember afterwards when they took over anything that the dems in charge then refused to pass it? The 2020 primary is also proof that the dems would gladly shed large segments of their own base to solidify power for those at the top, and there is no way in hell Pelosi would potentially sacrifice her own seat to help the rest of the party by passing this. E: gently caress, beaten Feldegast42 fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Apr 30, 2020 |
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 18:27
|
|
|
TulliusCicero posted:Actually we have learned that Trump voters will crawl over broken glass if they think he will hurt the people they don't like Prester is talking about depressed turnout among presumed Democrat voters and you're talking about Republican voters.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 18:28
|
|
|
Not convinced it's not better than our system tbh
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 18:28
|
|
|
Meanwhile the current president is telling people to ingest loving disinfectant Willo567 fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Apr 30, 2020 |
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 18:29
|
|
|
Willo567 posted:Meanwhile the current president is telling people to ingest loving diseffectant yeah but see this is Democrats' fault for not being engaging enough. Voters after all have no personal agency and will only turn out if their hype levels are high enough, it's just science. *Bernie loses the primary by larger margins than he did in 2016* ah, well, nevertheless. Lemming posted:My point is Biden sucks and he'd try to pick lovely justices to replace better ones and that's bad Not really because there doesn't seem to be a reason for this point given the reality of the situation, but you do you.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 18:29
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:I mean there isn't. Politicians being liars is basically expected. The number of people who genuinely pay attention to these things on anything but a surface level is rock bottom. Plenty of people can and will tell you that Obama was a good president who made their lives better, even some of those who Obama actively made life worse for. Obama succeeded because he lied out of his rear end and made it sound good. So did most Presidents. Trump's possibility of winning isn't due to his honesty and capability of doing good. It's because he's a professional conman who inexplicably is very good at selling his cons. if that's what you believe then caring about politics is pointless, all elections are foreordained, and it's in the best interest of Democratic pols to be as evil and greedy as they possibly can and git while the gettings good since no one cares what they do and it doesn't make a difference to their election either way tbf if Democrats believe this, it would explain a lot about how they govern
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 18:31
|
|
|
Yeah...I’m not going to “just suck it up” and accept that a rape-y, corporate empty suit represents the best we can hope for. Save your breath. I despise Biden and I’m hard pressed to find someone more indicative of nearly everything wrong with modern politics than him. I’m voting third party.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 18:31
|
|
|
Willo567 posted:Meanwhile the current president is telling people to ingest loving diseffectant No sane person who is legally allowed to vote would ever fall for such a simple mind trick.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 18:31
|
|
|
Willo567 posted:Meanwhile the current president is telling people to ingest loving diseffectant Well nobody said it was a perfect system.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 18:32
|
|
|
LionArcher posted:See also the entire dem nomation thread. Bring up any of these points and it’s always “so you’ll vote for a rapist”. You will though. Vote for a rapist. That's a thing you will do. The alleged party of "believe women." You. You all owe Brett Kavanaugh and Roy Moore voters an apology. VitalSigns posted:I mean it's not an absurd take, California Democrats passed statewide single-payer a half a dozen times for Schwarzenegger to veto, campaigned on how they'll totally do single-payer if only those dastardly Republicans weren't in the way, were rewarded with a filibuster-proof majority and a governing trifecta, and then went "oh whoops gee we're just a bit busy right now can't find time to pass that bill again heehee" Oh no, someone who remembers something that happened more than 4 years ago. the epstein democrat's one weakness
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 18:32
|
|
|
Willo567 posted:Meanwhile the current president is telling people to ingest loving diseffectant Disaffectant is a killer typo, but also very much what the administration would like people to consume. A good post.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 18:34
|
|
|
Doctor Teeth posted:You will though. Vote for a rapist. That's a thing you will do. The alleged party of "believe women." You. And Donald Trump voters and Gym Jordan voters and and and and and and and and and (for the record I'm not voting Biden so deal with it)
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 18:34
|
|
|
Lemming posted:I don't know why you'd be confident we'd be more in the first case than the second, Biden is on record saying he doesn't want to get rid of the filibuster but I can't find anything concrete on him saying how he feels about the filibuster for Supreme Court nominees, but as far as choosing good judge he said he'd be open to nominating Garland so that doesn't exactly fill me with confidence https://www.huffpost.com/entry/joe-biden-merrick-garland-supreme-court_n_5d1fa3afe4b04c481413d2dd what's the percentage in saying that garland sucks and he'd never renominate him? "i would be open to it" is saying exactly nothing. but "actually i wouldn't nominate him for the supreme court" will immediately be seized on by republicans that "they admit he shouldn't be on the court! that was four years of bad faith arguing!" garland got a raw deal, why kick him further? saying "sure, i'd consider him" is nice, maintains the argument that it was bullshit to block him, and commits to absolutely nothing and no president is ever actually going to appoint a 68 year old to the supreme court (as it's one of their most impactful decisions) unless it's the only way to get something through
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 18:35
|
|
|
Doctor Teeth posted:You will though. Vote for a rapist. That's a thing you will do. The alleged party of "believe women." You. Not gonna lie, if Roy Moore was just a rapist he would have been elected. He was a pedophile. And that, apparently, is the bridge too far for the Alabama electorate.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 18:35
|
|
|
TulliusCicero posted:Actually we have learned that Trump voters will crawl over broken glass if they think he will hurt the people they don't like God dammit this is being willfully dense. I'm not talking about what motivates Republicans, I'm talking about what motivates enough leftists to show up and outvote the Republicans. And the majority of Americans suffered significant losses in their livelihoods during Obama, which is why there was such an enthusiasm gap between him and Hillary- which is ultimately why Hillary lost. I'm not talking about economic anxiety, I'm talking about neoliberalism's failure to deliver a better life for the population. That has nothing to do with right-wing talking points about economic anxiety.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 18:36
|
|
|
Lemming posted:I didn't say that Garland would be the same as any Trump nominee, but he would clearly be a loving trash replacement for RGB/Breyer, and my initial criticism was that Garland is exactly the sort of person who Biden would nominate now you're just straight up agreeing with me what is going on you need to understand the "even if you assume X" type of argument it's not about agreeing with your predicates, it's about "even if we took your assumptions as true you are STILL wrong"
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 18:36
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/orgy_o_agamben/status/1255899944197619713 A good point I hadn't noticed while  ing on the Kirk tweet.Whether the Ballot You Mail Is Counted May Depend on Where You Vote (sidenote: If you're looking for places to donate your CARES check, you can do a hell of a lot worse than ProPublica) It's a good article that I'd recommend reading as it lays out some of the challenges and open questions about Vote by Mail (and suggests that lobbying and pressuring your local officials, especially clerks and administrators, could be helpful given the amount of discretion they had over what to count/not count in Wisconsin). One particular piece caught my eye and I went into the linked research to dive deeper. quote:New research suggests certain groups may be disproportionately hurt by ballot rejections. In Florida’s 2018 election, younger voters, those with disabilities and minority voters were far more likely to have their vote by mail ballots discarded, according to research published last week by political scientists at Dartmouth College and the University of Florida.  
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 18:36
|
|
|
I think Biden is a senile rapist and he is one of the absolutely worst candidates the democratic party could possibly have run. I sincerely doubt he'll win, and I think his politics mostly to the right of Reagan. I also think that his response, however tepid it might be, to the climate crisis is reason enough to pull the lever for him with tremendous vigor when the opponent is trump. I honestly don't think people realize just how bad the climate change situation is, or they'd be prepared to hold their nose too. The climate change denier in chief is already doing incredible damage, not only by removing all regulation in america, but also by de-funding the US agencies and people who are doing research into it and who have been trying to combat it. AND he is defunding/leaving the international frameworks that fight climate change (UN, WHO, paris, etc). AND he is actively gaslighting a whole bunch of people into thinking that it's not a big deal, and into thinking that since there is snow in the winter, climate change isn't real, lending legitimacy to climate change deniers all over the world. I think literally anyone in the primary field would have been better on climate change than Biden, but here we are. Still better than any republican in any elected position anywhere. Revelation 2-13 fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Apr 30, 2020 |
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 18:40
|
|
|
Doctor Teeth posted:You will though. Vote for a rapist. That's a thing you will do. The alleged party of "believe women." You. Yeah gently caress it, let's get Trump elected instead, he's certainly not a horrible rapist or anything. Let those allegations keep the shittiest person alive in the white house, give him two scotus judges and I don't know what else Trump term 2 will bring, prima nocta or some poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 18:40
|
|
|
Grayly Squirrel posted:Not gonna lie, if Roy Moore was just a rapist he would have been elected. And even then he would've won had minorities, both men and women, not turned out for a centrist Democrat. Almost like they decided it was worth having someone who will do something positive for them vs. someone who will only do negative things for them in that state and make an already bad situation worse (remember, some areas of Alabama are considered to be as bad as many third world countries in terms of infrastructure and poverty levels) Angry_Ed fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Apr 30, 2020 |
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 18:41
|
|
|
evilweasel posted:you need to understand the "even if you assume X" type of argument This would be a salient point if I was arguing that Biden's picks would be worse than Trump's, but I wasn't! Whew.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 18:41
|
|
|
Grayly Squirrel posted:Not gonna lie, if Roy Moore was just a rapist he would have been elected. I feel very confident that that is the case. His voters, though, rationalized it to themselves by saying that the other guy is worse, was going to somehow magically make machete wielding central american migrants appear in their local cheesecake factories, etc. Just generally make things Worse (as they see it). "I don't like him, but the other guy is worse." This was considered beyond the pale and baffled, just baffled, liberals. Well, not so baffling anymore is it?
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 18:43
|
|
|
RBA Starblade posted:Not convinced it's not better than our system tbh I mean, our current system is way better. We're actively sacrificing old people instead of young.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 18:46
|
|
|
Doctor Teeth posted:Oh no, someone who remembers something that happened more than 4 years ago. the epstein democrat's one weakness Political history in the US started on January 20, 2017 and it is simply unsporting of you to ask Democrats to acknowledge anything that happened before that day.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 18:52
|
|
|
Willo567 posted:If Trump gets another four years we're screwed. A theoretical second Trump term depends on how much time he spends doing willful harm and what kind of senate and house he has and how much time he spends just bitching about how much credit he's apparently owed and the media. Right now I'm debating how well I can take the goddamn President of The United States being arguably the whiniest pathetic man-child on the whole planet. My loving god is he unbelievably whiny and petty in a way I didn't really factor in entirely in 2015-2016, that factor alone makes it hard for me to understand the apparent Alexander The Great "leader of an epoch" visionary his base sees in him. Inconsolable petty whining is absolutely the defining trait and tone of his presidency for me over the first term. There's no amount of credit, praise and attention you could possibly give this man that would ever be enough. I can honestly say I've never seen a grown rear end mine whine and complain as often and for long as Trump has, particularly since the Democrats took the house. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/04/lazy-authoritarian/609937/ A pretty good summation of the way I see it. Kale fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Apr 30, 2020 |
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 18:53
|
|
|
Doctor Teeth posted:You will though. Vote for a rapist. That's a thing you will do. The alleged party of "believe women." You. The difference is that people weren't forced to choose between two rapists in those cases. How do you plan on making things better for everyone? The only thing most people can do is vote
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 18:53
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 17:09 |
|
|
Looks like the Democrat party screwed up again
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 18:53
|
|
