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NikkolasKing posted:Fair enough. That all makes sense. Thanks. CCP and Paradox both bought WW for the IP rights, to make video games and other media projects with them. CCP famously spent years trying to make a Vampire MMO and Paradox has already announced Bloodlines 2 and a Werewolf: The Apocalypse game. CCP never cared about publishing TTRPGs based on the license--on the scale of AAA video games a tabletop game's profits don't even amount to a rounding error--OPP licensed the IPs because Rich, Eddy Webb, et al are fans of the tabletop line and didn't want to see it die. Paradox doubtless had similar designs, but put a dude in charge who sold them on letting him make a new edition of the tabletop game as well, basically as a passion project. That ended when it caused an international incident over the pogroms against LGBT people in Chechnya, and Paradox dissolved its "White Wolf" subsidiary, licensed the new edition tabletop stuff out to Modiphius (and some others, including OPP), and appears to be in the same "we only bought this for the IP, if someone else wants to make a few thousand bucks publishing tabletop games we'll gladly take their money and let them deal with the logistics."
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Apr 30, 2020 12:00
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Everyone posted:I downloaded for free during that "week of free" at drivethru, though I still haven't read. Wasn't that the one where the character example was some kind of smelly homeless teenage girl mage that the author really kind of wanted to gently caress? Brucato has very specific fetishes, all of them creepy. The pregen was also kicked out of her house when her mom caught her having a threesome in her mom's bed so you could have the image of teen sex bouncing around in your head as your soul dies a little.
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Apr 30, 2020 12:45
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Dawgstar posted:Brucato has very specific fetishes, all of them creepy. The pregen was also kicked out of her house when her mom caught her having a threesome in her mom's bed so you could have the image of teen sex bouncing around in your head as your soul dies a little. But hey you get power points when your soul dies!
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Apr 30, 2020 13:23
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Arivia posted:But hey you get power points when your soul dies! Exactly. Who needs a soul when you get "teh sex powerz?"
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Apr 30, 2020 15:50
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Phil is on the moderation team for a Mage fan page. A couple years back he banned some idiot for being a creep and way behind the times regarding sex workers. After the banning he made a big Mod Announcement type post about how that type of talk wasn't allowed and cited his experience as someone who "taught and practiced erotic magical forms", which was then juxtaposed with THIS giant picture of his face he used to conclude the post. (linked because it's huge) https://imgur.com/a/sMHPjvD The dude has his heart in the right place but he goes about things in the most Satyr Phil way possible. Free Gratis fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Apr 30, 2020 |
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Apr 30, 2020 16:17
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So I get paid tomorrow and I have a few books lined up to buy but one I'm especially curious about, can anybody tell me if Guide to the Traditions is good? Mage Revised honestly sounds like my thing and looking at the list of Mage Revised books on DriveThruRPG, this one stood out since it's informative on all the Traditions so I don't have to buy multiple Tradition books right now.
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Apr 30, 2020 16:29
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He looks exactly like the kind of dude that would brag about being into erotic magic
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Apr 30, 2020 16:46
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NikkolasKing posted:So I get paid tomorrow and I have a few books lined up to buy but one I'm especially curious about, can anybody tell me if Guide to the Traditions is good? I haven't really read it cover to cover so I can't speak to it's quality, but the book is more about the Traditions as an umbrella faction. It's not really about the various Traditions individually so much as how they intersect. Of course there will be tidbits about each of the Trads, but not in the depth you're probably hoping.
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Apr 30, 2020 16:47
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Guide to the Traditions is a spectacularly bad book. I can go into more detail later, but it's basically a book about the Traditions by people who hate the Traditions.
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Apr 30, 2020 17:09
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Froghammer posted:He looks exactly like the kind of dude that would brag about being into erotic magic 
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Apr 30, 2020 17:09
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Phil also thought a top 40 station playing top 40 hits was edgy. Powerchords' Dedication posted:"The DJs and station managers at WAVA and DC101 during the late ‘70s and early ‘80s, for daring to play everything from Bruce Springsteen to Rick James to the Ramones to Judas Priest to Prince to Frank Zappa to Patti Smith and the B-52s on the same radio stations, back when it was all fairly new and before terms like “classic rock” existed. (Plus a hearty gently caress Y’ALL to the folks who bought those stations and ruined ‘em in the mid-80s.)" Bruce Springsteen on the air in the late 70's and early 80's? Now I've heard everything!
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Apr 30, 2020 17:14
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Free Gratis posted:Phil is on the moderation team for a Mage fan page. A couple years back he banned some idiot for being a creep and way behind the times regarding sex workers. After the banning he made a big Mod Announcement type post about how that type of talk wasn't allowed and cited his experience as someone who "taught and practiced erotic magical forms", which was then juxtaposed with THIS giant picture of his face he used to conclude the post. (linked because it's huge) Uggggghhhhhh...I shouldn't be surprised, but guys like this are why if I mention my own spiritual practice at all, I leave it at "Buddhism" and don't reference the type. Any time one of our monks in residence does a Dharma talk about Tantra, you can always spot the creepers who show up, and the moment they realize it's not going to turn into an orgy. And most of them look like Brucato. (For the record, in case anyone was curious "tantric practices" can refer to a whole shitload of very different things, and most of them have little to no emphasis on sex. In the type of Tibetan Buddhist practice I follow, as an example, sex is primarily brought up as a metaphor, both for the realization of the illusory nature of duality and to explain the strength of feeling associated with achieving the bliss-void state. About as close as you get to engaging in actual sexual acts is visualizing yourself as a deity in union with it's consort during certain forms of meditation. If you're coming to talks or lama chopas and tsohs expecting naughty sex bits, you're going to be bored out of your mind. It's mostly sitting around and banging on musical instruments while chanting, and then eating fruit.)
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Apr 30, 2020 17:24
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GimpInBlack posted:EDIT: Also, the "supplement treadmill" you remember from the 90s is no longer a sustainable business model. It's not the fault of crowdfunding, it's the fault of "dozens of books in each edition and for each line" simply being a) not profitable and b) no longer necessary, since online sales and distribution means there's less need for constant new product churn to keep your physical shelf space in brick-and-mortar bookstores like there was back then. Yeah, this is IMO the main thing, and it's a structural change in the pen and paper RPG industry. Look at how few books D&D is publishing in it's current edition - and D&D is outright hot now - compared to how many it had out in 4th, 3rd, 2nd. I think it's closely tied to the decline in brick-and-mortar bookstores - every mall used to have a chain bookstore that would carry a few WoD books but now it's like "what the gently caress is a mall?" Independent bookstores are actually doing relatively well (compared to how they were doing a few years ago, not compared to how they were doing before the rise of Barns and Noble style megabookstores and then the rise of Amazon) but here in Brooklyn I don't think I've seen a single indie bookstore that carries RPGs anymore.
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Apr 30, 2020 17:40
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Paradox contracted text-based CYOA developer Choice of Games to make three Vampire games. COG has its rough gems but, and I say this with all due affection, they're pretty openly a shovelware company. Still, might make for some schlocky enjoyment.
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Apr 30, 2020 18:02
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Other than some core books, I buy all my rpg books in digital format. I have probably have every post revised oWoD book physically, and nearly every 1st edition nWoD book. After moving a few times, you learn that it isn't worth it. Onyx Path is small enough I am glad they get a bigger cut of my money from me backing kickstarters and buying from Drivethru, but as a worker at a small retail business it is also a shame.
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Apr 30, 2020 18:20
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If yall could have one vampire drink from you who would it be? E: if its a character from one of your campaigns please tell us why that kindred is so cool
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Apr 30, 2020 18:28
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Basic Chunnel posted:Paradox contracted text-based CYOA developer Choice of Games to make three Vampire games. COG has its rough gems but, and I say this with all due affection, they're pretty openly a shovelware company. Still, might make for some schlocky enjoyment. i am so over the visual novel format
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Apr 30, 2020 18:32
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My friend is gonna run a Werewolf 20 game and decided to try streaming it. https://www.twitch.tv/frodolaporte?fbclid=IwAR04LbeX4rBbGHx7tIArnucl5lLx02FDJC8KEvz5vuKNq7jByU7trYMl9M0 It's gonna be in english but we're probably gonna dip into french canadian from time to time. I'm gonna be the Uktena Galliard.
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Apr 30, 2020 19:25
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Soonmot posted:i am so over the visual novel format I wouldn't mind it so much if they actually have replay value. So far Coteries of New York railroads everything and your choices have little to no impact on the plot.
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Apr 30, 2020 19:48
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Dawgstar posted:Phil also thought a top 40 station playing top 40 hits was edgy.
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Apr 30, 2020 20:30
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Soonmot posted:i am so over the visual novel format Choice Of is usually low on visual, more on text. Overall their stuff is cheap but decent, and frankly, the bar they have to clear to produce better than average content for vim cyoas is subterranean.
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Apr 30, 2020 20:33
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Nessus posted:There was a period where playing Springsteen and Priest were relatively groundbreaking but it was years before my conception. The thing is Brucato was listening to a top 40 station when the stuff he liked were top 40 hits. He also cites KISS a lot in his music RPG (and in fact is way more into Gene Simmons than is socially acceptable) and seems to be one of those people who is highly irritated his stuff is now 'classic rock.'
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Apr 30, 2020 20:59
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Digital Osmosis posted:Yeah, this is IMO the main thing, and it's a structural change in the pen and paper RPG industry. Look at how few books D&D is publishing in it's current edition - and D&D is outright hot now - compared to how many it had out in 4th, 3rd, 2nd. I think it's closely tied to the decline in brick-and-mortar bookstores - every mall used to have a chain bookstore that would carry a few WoD books but now it's like "what the gently caress is a mall?" Independent bookstores are actually doing relatively well (compared to how they were doing a few years ago, not compared to how they were doing before the rise of Barns and Noble style megabookstores and then the rise of Amazon) but here in Brooklyn I don't think I've seen a single indie bookstore that carries RPGs anymore. It gets lost in all the other amazingly bad decisions Ericsson made, but one of the earlier red flags about his "vision" for the oWoD was that he bought into the weird narrative that the original lines had languished under OPP, because they weren't churning out supplements. There's been a particular mythology among a certain subset of grognard that believes that the nWoD killed WW; that the classic lines were all doing fine, but then they tried this reboot and it doomed them, and that if OPP had just restarted the book churn the IP would still be right up there with DnD. Now, this is bullshit to anyone who hasn't spent the last 2 decades huffing nostalgia farts, for the structural changes outlined above. But it's extra bullshit in this case, because WW employees at the time have come out and said that the supplement treadmill was failing as a business model The capstone apocalypse books and then trying a different publishing model (along with trying to market the IP, a la the attempted MMO) was done specifically because even after cutting back on publications for the less popular lines, even the core 3 supplements were getting dodgy in the ROI. Nor is this particularly obscure information; Rich Thomas has written articles about it at OPP, and some of the people interviewed in Ericsson's little narcissistic "documentary" have also talked about how the lines were doing towards the end of revised. This is direct feedback from people there on the ground that nuWW had access to, and they were still holding on to the notion that all it would take to relive the 90s was to churn out an endless spew of supplements full of pre-millennial edginess to get back to where WW was circa 1995. In some ways, it's kind of amazing they even managed to get the core book out on their own. Still waiting for that netflix deal though.
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Apr 30, 2020 21:03
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Dawgstar posted:The thing is Brucato was listening to a top 40 station when the stuff he liked were top 40 hits. He also cites KISS a lot in his music RPG (and in fact is way more into Gene Simmons than is socially acceptable) and seems to be one of those people who is highly irritated his stuff is now 'classic rock.'
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Apr 30, 2020 21:12
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GimpInBlack posted:OPP licensed the IPs because Rich, Eddy Webb, et al are fans of the tabletop line and didn't want to see it die. Belatedly, another point to explain the Onyx Path situation: they weren't just fans of the tabletop line. Rich Thomas and Eddy Webb were some of the employees of White Wolf Publishing when it was purchased by and merged into CCP, and continued working there for the period during which CCP let the ex-White Wolf division continue publishing tabletop books. When the MMO project became such a debacle that CCP cut the support line to the tabletop division and started preparing to divest, these ex-White Wolf veterans who had hung on were the ones who incorporated as Onyx Path Publishing and negotiated for licensing rights so that tabletop books could continue to be made for the WoD and CofD, given its contemporary owners had no interest in making any and would charge too much to buy the rights back outright. Onyx Path's freelance writer stable when they broke off was basically the same freelance writer stable that was writing the tabletop books under CCP. So there's kind of an evolving line of heritage there from late White Wolf Publishing through CCP into Onyx Path Publishing.
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Apr 30, 2020 21:15
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Nessus posted:I don't get why people give a poo poo. If you like the music and so do a lot of other people, isn't that great? It means you had a great experience and as frosting on top, you have a common point of contact with strangers. It's like keeping up in passing with football so you can make idle conversation.
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Apr 30, 2020 21:30
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Zereth posted:It means you're old now. 
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Apr 30, 2020 22:14
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Free Gratis posted:Phil is on the moderation team for a Mage fan page. A couple years back he banned some idiot for being a creep and way behind the times regarding sex workers. After the banning he made a big Mod Announcement type post about how that type of talk wasn't allowed and cited his experience as someone who "taught and practiced erotic magical forms", which was then juxtaposed with THIS giant picture of his face he used to conclude the post. (linked because it's huge) No one who wants to gently caress teens has their heart in the right place, even if they're sex positive in some other way.
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Apr 30, 2020 22:59
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NikkolasKing posted:Fair enough. That all makes sense. Thanks. Check out the new V5 Chicago by Night suite (CbN, Chi Folios, soon to be released - Let the Streets Run Red) by OPP. They're absolutely gorgeous books that are extremely fun to play
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Apr 30, 2020 23:56
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Oberst posted:Check out the new V5 Chicago by Night suite (CbN, Chi Folios, soon to be released - Let the Streets Run Red) by OPP. They're absolutely gorgeous books that are extremely fun to play I will add them to my list, thanks. Although, can anybody tell me if Paradox or I guess the writers at Paradox have spoken on the Sabbat? I was reading a thread on the new House Goratrix on Onyx's forums and one post said we've heard little about House G or the Sabbat in V5 because Paradox supposedly doesn't like them or something.
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May 1, 2020 06:18
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NikkolasKing posted:I will add them to my list, thanks. There are no writers at Paradox. There were writers at Paradox spearheading creative development, but three books in they managed to cause a minor incident of international outrage, and Paradox shuffled the old creative head into a closet somewhere and shut down in-house development. V5 book development is currently done by Modiphius Entertainment, and I don't know who the V5 creative head is there, though I'm sure at least some Modiphius V5 freelance writers will be from the same set of writers who did V5 work for Paradox directly.
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May 1, 2020 06:31
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I feel like people who are mad their poo poo is now classic rock didn't go hard enough to appreciate surviving this long.
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May 1, 2020 06:58
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I Am Just a Box posted:There are no writers at Paradox. There were writers at Paradox spearheading creative development, but three books in they managed to cause a minor incident of international outrage, and Paradox shuffled the old creative head into a closet somewhere and shut down in-house development. Fair enough then. And I'm sorry for constantly barging in with questions but I know a lot of you are older fans and know way more than I do. Order of Hermes (I got the first edition of their Tradition book) is said to incorporate some ideas from this other series that has a group with the same name but otherwise they have no connection. Just now I was discussing why I like Clan Tremere and somebody said they were only good in Ars Magica. How much of World of Darkness is from this AM thing? Is it just as good as WoD and worth a read? NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 09:22 on May 1, 2020 |
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May 1, 2020 09:16
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NikkolasKing posted:Fair enough then. Ars Magica is amazing, but other than stealing some faction names from AM's Order of Hermes (for a brief time White Wolf owned Ars Magica, and IIRC there were some vague plans in the 3rd edition of AM to make it "WoD's Middle Ages," that went down like a lead balloon and was almost immediately dropped), the two settings have nothing in common. Ars Magica is a game about medieval wizards in a version of Europe where everything medieval philosophers thought about how the world works is literally true. People's Health really is governed by the balance or imbalance of the four humors, diseases really are caused by demons, the sky really is a big Crystal sphere with the planets and the Sun orbiting around the earth, etc etc. It's great, but if you're looking for more World of Darkness, you're not going to find it in Ars Magica. Literally all they stole was names, the Tremere in Ars Magica are not vampire Wizards or anything like that.
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May 1, 2020 09:32
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GimpInBlack posted:Ars Magica is amazing, but other than stealing some faction names from AM's Order of Hermes (for a brief time White Wolf owned Ars Magica, and IIRC there were some vague plans in the 3rd edition of AM to make it "WoD's Middle Ages," that went down like a lead balloon and was almost immediately dropped), the two settings have nothing in common. That all does sound pretty awesome, if very different from WoD. I'll have to look into it sometime after I've gotten most of the WoD books I want. I was just curious if it was an influence on WoD or not. HalloweenJack in his review of VTM 2e I think it was talks about how VTM is the second most influential TTRPG after D&D. I didn't know if any of the WoD owed its status to AM or not. Doesn't seem like it. That's fine, of course. Influence doesn't mean much, I just wanted to know if WoD took ideas from it or not.
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May 1, 2020 11:22
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NikkolasKing posted:Fair enough then. Your questions are infinitely more interesting than another round of mage chat. As for the rest of 5th edition, the preview of Werewolf they released a video on the other week gives me hope that they're gonna jettison the leftover 90's edge and do something cool with it.
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May 1, 2020 13:57
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NikkolasKing posted:Fair enough then. I just want to inform you that a lot of v5 questions are going to be met with a lot of false information and hate because it's not the favored edition in this thread
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May 1, 2020 14:04
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Soonmot posted:Your questions are infinitely more interesting than another round of mage chat. I share some of your hope, but I'm still very wary. Ericsson's influence is on werewolf is already out of the bag with the upcoming video game and I'm sure the new development team was handed some notes. I'm curious if they feel any kind of pressure to be in line with whatever setting/tone it's going to present. The V5 setting info that Ericsson gave in early interviews ended up being in the final product and he was leaning real hard on the Impergium part deux in those same interviews.
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May 1, 2020 14:47
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Metapod posted:I just want to inform you that a lot of v5 questions are going to be met with a lot of false information and hate because it's not the favored edition in this thread I do intend to read V5 and V5 Cam on my own at some future date. I'm starting "in the beginning" with Clan Tremere but they seem the most effected by V5 changes so I def need to read all about that on my own so I can be caught up with current events for Bloodlines 2. Obviously execution is important but the Pyramid braking up doesn't bug me so much. I don't like the Camarilla anyway so my favorite Clan not being bound to them has great potential.
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May 1, 2020 14:54
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NikkolasKing posted:I do intend to read V5 and V5 Cam on my own at some future date. I'm starting "in the beginning" with Clan Tremere but they seem the most effected by V5 changes so I def need to read all about that on my own so I can be caught up with current events for Bloodlines 2. PSA: put oberst and metapod on ignore. There are people here who play V5 and like V5 without being loving apologists. Seriously, makes the thread much better. EDIT: Anyone have a link to that werewolf video? I never added it to the OP.
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May 1, 2020 14:57
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